Bocca alerted me of these patches on ebay. They have the same Giant shown on the late 50's NY and early 60's SF Giants pennants. Do you guys think the patches and pennants would have been made by the same maker? The patches are 4.25"; the pennant shown is 20." As I remember, the batter in the middle and ball at end is typical of some maker but I forget who...

That Giants Pennant is circa 1951. The Patches are probably 7-8 years more recent.

Like so many of these logos, it looks like the Giant Mascot lost some of his fine detail through the years. Cool stuff!

The company is WGN, which can be deduced from Kyle’s great research. And Mark is spot on with the date, due to the Cubs pennant from this very limited series. A couple of notes which I believe I touched on a long while ago. First, the logos from this series can be found on the back cover of “Inside Baseball for Little Leaguers”, with copyright 1956. Interesting to see all the pennant logos except a couple ... notably the Reds mad bomber was replaced by the mustached guy that Keezer used.

Secondly, as a side note, for four years I owned and managed a team in a summer collegiate league, with nickname Giants. So where did I get the idea for my logo?

Love that...

We've seen the "olde time" mustached Reds guy on a pennant, but has anyone seen that particular Phillies mascot? I have not, and gotta believe it simply doesn't exist. WGN used the Blue Jay for the 1951 pennant, but by 1956 that logo was history. Would love to see that Batting Quaker version surface!

Nope I’ve never seen it either.

Did you trade mark your adaptation of this maker's logo, too?

If so ... that's smart because I'll bet you that manufacturer, if it was WGN, did not do so.

Yep, sure did.

So, apparently, this company offered several variations within this player-in-the-name series: a full length version with a player positioned in the midst of the city's name; and a shorter version--with no such player, due to the shorter length of the pennant.

I've also seen a Brooklyn version that measured 10" in length, also with no player. It was otherwise identical to the full length version of the same Brooklyn pennant from this series.

So, perhaps there were three versions? A 30", a 20", and a 10"?

Could be. I’ll keep an eye out for a 10” Giants version. I doubt I would buy one but I’d report back with my findings. :p

Here's a nice compliment to Gary's Tigers Pennant. I didn't want to out the auction while it was live (and mess up someone's chances of winning), but this is one you rarely see.... a near perfect match!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-194...p2047675.l2557

That is a cool one!

I offered the seller $100 for it. It's quite a bit dirtier than it appears in that pic but super rare. He didn't reply and it ended up selling for $43 (not to me). Oh well...

That's a nice one. I'm guessing it could be cleaned up to look much better.

Would it be safe to say that artwork on pennants pretty much disappeared in the mid-60s? By "artwork," I mean stadiums, players, etc. and not logos or stand alone helmets.

Here's an evolution of Giants pennants. !962 NL Champs with the cartoon font; 1960's pennant with same font, showing an un-enclosed Candlestick; early 70's pennant showing Candlestick enclosed; stiff, synthetic pennant with leftover graphics and, finally, a 1970's logo only pennant.

I really can't think of any Giants pennants past the mid-60's with any new graphics. They are all just logos and print. Is it the same with other teams?

Most teams had fresh logos and artistry through 1968 or so. Then in 1969, it became regulated, boring and corporate. By 1970, all artistry and creativity were gone.

There are some rare exceptions, such as that series with the Rangers (Batting Cowboy), Mariners (Mermaid), Brewers (Barrel Guy) and Padres (Friar Head). I suppose that group would be the “last hurrah” for originality.

Really sad... I wonder what became of the artists, and hope they landed on their feet (AdFlag guy not withstanding).

Even “Barrel Guy” was kind of a team logo, no?

Isn’t there a 1970s Giants with a barrel chested Giant standing in Candlestick?

And to answer the question, it seemed to go out with the MLB trademarks. Although there are pennants which look like the 1969s but have no trademark, suggesting maybe 1966-68.

I still love the cloth ASCOs from 1969 but you all know that already ...

This guy? Yeah, I guess you could consider this "artwork"....or not.

The Dodgers offered up this stadium pennant, made by Trench, in the latter half of the 1960s; and it remained available for purchase through the team's souvenir catalogue into the early 1980s.

Although the coloring changed from four to two colors sometime in the 1970s, the design remain otherwise unchanged throughout its 15 year run. Surprisingly, it never featured an MLB mark like others by Trench or ASCO/WinCraft made during that era.

But did the material change over those 15-20 years?

FWIW - I just entered my 250th Giants pennant into the three pennant spreadsheets I maintain. Many are modern crap, but I've got 'em. :p

I pick these up when I can get them cheap. I'd say I've paid an average of $20 apiece. Made by "Winning Streak" for the last 25 years or so. No graphics but very well made of thick wool felt. The big ones are 40-42" long; the smaller ones are 32." They get 2nd tier storage :p .Does anyone else pick these up? Probably not. :cool:

I meant this series from the 70s....

Saw this generic Dodgers pennant on eBay. Not too uncommon. This is the product of a company who has made many pennants, but has yet to be identified. What strikes me about this is the spine and tassels. Not felt and not cloth. Almost feels like canvas. Where have we seen this before? The company that made the 1958 LA/SF opening day pennant, the 1954-58 WS pennants (see ‘55 below), and the 1956, 1958 NFLC pennants. The pennants themselves are cloth. Furthermore, we have this series below that Baseball Rob posted awhile ago, observe the Phillies pennant. These all have the same type of spine. That being said, my guess is that this pic is from 1964-65 simply because of the Milwaukee Braves and Redlegs pennants hanging. 1968 seems a tick too modern. I know they changed the 3 to an 8 on the WS pennant. Do you have more background on this pic, Rob?

Anyway, this is a company with a distinct style. My guess is that it is from/near NYC. Ideas?

Oh, I thought you meant this "barrel guy." If I'm not mistaken they are using this logo these days. If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see the Rangers, Padres, and Mariners pennants you're thinking of.

Greg, I do have backstory on that picture. Actually, my buddy does. I'll get with him and get back to you.

The 1958 Opening Day pennants I have seen all have a "normal" spine...

No that’s exactly what mean. By “not normal” I simply mean it is noticeably different than felt or cloth. Hard to describe in words.

Mark has the WS pennants, maybe he can better explain.

I'm confused. Those 1958's look like felt to me. My local buddy has the autographed one. I'll have him bring it over.

Well maybe it’s a different type of felt. But there’s a noticeable difference between it and what Trench used. Also they exclusively used white spines and they turned a uniform brown with age.

Greg, I know what you mean about the strange material, but it's sure hard to describe in words. It's more of a visual/touch thing that differentiates these spines.

It's almost like a hybrid material with equal parts canvas, felt and cardboard. The white color typically would turn to tan or a dark cream color, and was prone to creasing/wrinkling.

Here's the spine to my 1955 WS pennant. Hopefully the photo picks up the composition of the spine material (which somehow stayed pretty white). I have a 1957 WS pennant on which the unusual spine material (and tassels) are much more prominent and darker toned. It's buried, but I'll try to dig it out.

Yup. Trench :)

Trench definitely made the "BKLYN." pennant you first showed. Rick posted a photo from the Brooklyn Eagle of some kids waving it that dates it to ca. 1949. I believe it measures 26" in length; which, by the late 1940s, was Trench's preferred size. There's also a Brooklyn (football) Dodgers pennant featuring the same letter script, with a punter graphic known to be used by Trench during that same era.

The '55 Dodgers v. Yankees WS pennant is, I believe, also by Trench.

So you weren't far off on your New York guess, Greg; except these came from Buffalo rather than NYC.

I can't say I've ever noted any anomalies in the spines on either of these two pennants.

I'm afraid the '58 Dodgers v. Giants "1st Game" pennant's manufacturer remains unknown. I don't believe it's by Trench: it has no tassels. The speculation among Rob and I was that this was made by a local, bay area novelty maker that made a few other Giant-only pennants featuring the same San Francisco artwork.

Great insight Kyle. Also Mark’s picture is very good. I still think that the differences are too big to suggest Trench. Perhaps a generic graphic was copied. But the spine is so different, wider, much smaller stitch, and those that have tassels (not all of them do) often are made of the same cloth as the body of the pennant. If it’s Trench then these were made by workers who were banished to the annex and did not share ideas. :) And I think the artwork is very distinct ... the letters, etc. .. Now I did pull up pics of those pennants which I believe fit this series. One thing they have in common is a connection to NYC teams (including loosely, the relocated baseball clubs). .... I do see that a couple spines are different colored (not white).

These are the Trench WS pennants ... my question is, would the same company make two radically different designs/styles for the same week-long series?

Close-up of the Dodgers spine ... it’s a “two-ply” material! This is common for all of these.

Here's the background my buddy gave me. He grew up in Fresno.

'These are photos from a baseball banquet in Fresno circa 1964-65 I believe. They came from Bill Thompson’s estate. Bill broadcast the SFG games between 1965-73 w/ Russ (Hodges) & Lon (Simmons), but before and after was affiliated with the Fresno Giants; before as an announcer and after as general manager. My guess is that, based on the people and background, it was either part of what was called “The Hot Stove League Dinner”, an annual offseason baseball banquet that really took off in the 1970’s (had Aaron, Garagiola and McCovey as guests of honor at it’s zenith), or it could have also been a farewell dinner for Bill between 1964-65 when he left his post as KFCN-TV Sports Director to work for the SF Giants; or even a combination. It’s just a guess, and a best guess at that.'

Not sure that clears anything up. Still can't explain why the Dodgers' 3 was changed to an 8.

Rob that’s great stuff! Thank you. Makes a lot more sense now. In the far right the pennant that looks cut off appears to be the Colt 45s in this picture, which also fits the time period. Also in the pic is a 3/4 size Dodger 1955 pennant which *might* have come from the same company. It was made by the same company that made the Cinderella Boys Giants pennant, that’s for certain. There’s a “coarse” texture to the paint that is very unique.

I’ll guess that this was the SFG pennant from that series (not in Rob’s pic). This and the black version. By this time they were using cloth/felt spines.

You're right.

That said, you've got to organize all your "sub-species" into Google photo albums, because you're confusing the crap out of me! ;)

Greg is the official net54 "Pennant Savant".

Regarding that 1954 WS Pennant... Anybody want to sell or do a trade for that? :cool:

And on that note, anyone grab a pennant on yesterday’s Hunt Auction? I underbid on the Phillies, just couldn’t justify going as high as it did.

What the hell are we looking for here, Savant? What is "that series"? Oy, my head hurts.

edit: Oh, maybe you’re referring to the banquet picture?

I’ll take that title! And yes that’s a sweet pennant.

Yes that looks very very similar in style to the orange Colt 45s.

Here’s a recent pickup. There must be a hundred Orioles pennants from 1966-70, and a lot of them have years printed on them after the fact. It’s somewhat unique to them. Anyway I thought it was cool how the dates of the Baltimore home games are listed, even though Game 5 on the 10th was not needed. Don’t know of another WS pennant like this ...

Very cool! In my searches for pins, I’ve noticed the Orioles also had hundreds of those in that time span.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen!

A few recent acquisitions. Thanks to Mike E for making the white Giants pennant available to me.

I see a bleach candidate...... :cool:

Nice ones, Marc. That’s another identifiable series, and a pretty cool one, too ... the one with the orbiting baseballs and cap.

I haven't had great luck bleaching the stiffer white pennants. THe bleach doesn't seem to take as well.

Who do you guys think made the 49ers pennant?

My guess is Ad Flag, based on artwork and crooked cut. One of their nice ones, though. And yeah I wouldn’t mess with the white Giants, besides it looks nice already!

I’d at least do the tassels and maybe a little soap and water on the pennant......if it was mine. :mad:

How come the Astros/49er’s/Santa Clara/Oilers guy keeps getting the good Giants pennants? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

Agree with AdFlag. It's both ugly and cool at the same time, with "cool" definitely winning out. Nice pickup Marc!

Greg, FWIW I have never seen an MLB pennant dated like that either (from any team). I'm equally impressed that you found an available spot on the "Wall of Fame" :rolleyes:

Here’s the matching pin.

Ha!

Let me reorder for you: 1) Santa Clara (haven't seen a new pennant since Kyle dug one up from his epic 1915 CA find), 2) SF Giants, 3) 49ers, 4) San Jose minor league, 27) Houston stuff.

A cool experience (I may be repeating myself) ... 2009, my only time ever in CA, was a season-opener DH at SJSU, played the first game on campus and the second game at the minor league park which was in walking distance. Got swept. :(

I'm a little late to chime in on this one ... but, yeah, ADFLAG is my guess, too.

Their artists seemed to really value depicting the facial characteristics of football players, as this one does.

Nice pin! Is that a tough one to find?

Very cool!

I keep finding more room to hang in this tiny 30’ by 15’ room. Right now the count is: 217 pennants hanging (10 which are oversized), and 80 minis. Not counting these Eagles pennants above the stairs and the four six-footers that serve as a pool table cover.

It shows up from time to time. Baltimore made so many pins during those years some of which are very common, and some are extremely difficult to find. This is probably somewhere in the middle.

That Red Eagles Pennant is a killer!

Anybody here win this one? I thought it was one of the most beautifully constructed pennants I've ever seen. A pure work of art. For an early teens oversized pennant in that condition, someone sure snagged it for a nice price...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-woo...rdt=true&rt=nc

How do you attach your pictures, Greg? Are they from your phone? I wish we could get some bigger pictures from the Pennant Savant. :cool:

Just think how much work went into making that pennant style. So much sewing!

Yeah I lazily use my phone. Sometimes it lets me upload “actual size” but other times I have to choose a smaller one. If I’m at the desktop I can better adjust. Is there a better way to use the phone to get a large pic?

Thanks Mark, it’s my only real nice Eagles pennant. It would have been cool to learn that the Eagles wore red in the first year but nope ...

Did anyone here pick up the Raiders or Texans AFL pennants thst were just sold on eBay?

Not sure on the phone. I keep all my Giants pics (stuff I have, stuff I’ve seen, stuff I want) on my desktop computer. Thus, my Net54 pics come from there.

Thanks Mark, it’s my only real nice Eagles pennant. It would have been cool to learn that the Eagles wore red in the first year but nope ...

Did anyone here pick up the Raiders or Texans AFL pennants thst were just sold on eBay?

I got this a month or so ago for like $65. Not sure if it’s worthless given the team or if the age alone makes it a good get. I got it because it looks neat. Niagara University is in Buffalo, my school actually plays them non-conference every now and then. It seems the school played only 10 games a year back in the teens. (Joe McCarthy played here 1905-07.) But this pennant is almost perfect, around 33.5”, and everything is sewn, every line, every wrinkle in the guy’s uniform. There’s no shot this was mass produced, is there? It seems like similar construction to the Madison pennant.

Silk screening seems to date commercially back to 1911 based on some crude internet searches. So I wonder if these go back to the aughts. That would include the baseball pennants with the leather graphics. Screening would figure to be so much easier to mass produce, so that once it became a thing, why would anyone sew? The leather graphics offered an alternative to sewing in that details could be burned on with a heated tool.

The first pennants to be screen printed first hit the market around 1910-11. It was obviously seen among pennant makers as a superior way to make a pennant because you could do so much more in terms of artwork using this method, which permitted very detailed graphics. More importantly: it required significantly less sewing and therefore required less time and money to produce such items.

But, these advantages notwithstanding, sewed letter pennants never entirely vanished. In fact, Collegiate-Pacific continued making them through the 1970s; and Winning Streak still makes them today (kind of).

Some manufacturers had no choice but to continue making sewed letter pennants. That's because the first companies to successfully adapt screen printing for making novelty pennants guarded the process behind it with utmost secrecy. They didn't just do this to maintain a leg up on their competition; they needed time to apply for and secure patents, because they correctly foresaw the value in the process itself and its adaptability for other other applications, namely, advertising posters; and eventually, apparel.

I've identified about 4-5 pennant makers from the early 1910s that were among the first to make screen printed pennants. The one most of you may be familiar with is The Reproduction Co. of New York City. They made some of the most recognizable collegiate pennants from that era using this new production method.

I have seen numerous pennant catalogues and advertisements from makers well into the 1920s offering both "sewed letter" and new "art process" (screen printed) pennants for sale. So, unfortunately, just because a pennant is sewn letter doesn't automatically mean it was made pre-1910. I wish it were that simple....

Great insights, Kyle!

Greg, that Niagara Pennant is sweet. Very attractive and unquestionably of the era (teens). A nice pickup for $65. LMK if you ever want to sell/trade, and make a bit of profit.

Speaking of profit, it looks like Jonsstats makes out once again. Was this possibly a legit sale?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/orig-RARE-S...p2047675.l2557

The last time I had that Cardinals pennant, I think I got about $75 for it. And look at the ridiculous distance between bidders #2 and 3.

https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/20...p2047675.l2565

I bet the winning bidder would like to behead bidder #2 right about now (for costing him a cool $929 :eek:

I saw that one too and thought the same thing. I was going to post it, but didn’t want to put it in case someone really wanted it. The design is unlike any other I have seen. Really cool. That Niagra pennant is cool too

Hi guys,
Here's my 1950's Brooklyn Dodgers pennant that I just got back from my framer today! It's my one and only vintage pennant so I did it up right, custom framed with Museum Glass. If anyone knows the specific year of issue for this pennant that would be awesome!

Looks beautiful Jeff...

I’ve always loved that one and consider it to be the classic Brooklyn pennant. If you’re only going to have one, that’s an excellent choice. Not sure anyone can pin down a single year of issue, but pretty safe to say it’s early to mid 1950s... The Jackie Robinson era for sure.

Looks to be in great condition... a real beauty!

This is great and it makes sense. Perhaps it is more indicative of pennants with elaborate sewn graphics like the ones pictured here ... someone could have saved a lot of time and money with a screen, if they had access.

I guess the first “series” to use screen print are the “B.B.C.” pennants which definitely date to 1910-14, due to the Phillies “daisy” pennants. One was in Hunt Auctions a few days ago, just beautiful .. but $9K including BP. Yikes!

Thanks Mark, I might take you up on that in time, I don’t have room to hang it.

Jeff this is a cool pennant in great condition, love it with the frame.

Glad you posted it because this is from what I think is the largest “series” that we have yet to identify. I think it’s the same company that made all the “sliding runner” pennants along with the ones with script player filling up the body of the pennant, Phillies blue jays, etc. They tend to be a tick smaller, heavy felt, tight stitching, no tassels. Every now and then you see one of these with a split spine, as if a roll ended midway through seeing and they just started a new one on the same pennant. The roster pennants are 1948-50, though the Athletics have a 1945, Trench was already in their glory and these are radically different.

Thanks guys!

Hi Greg, you're correct on the size. The first thing I noticed was it's just slightly smaller than your average sized pennant, that's why I had to go the custom framing route! Won it in an ebay auction earlier in the summer, just happened to see it as the auction was in the final few minutes!