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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Come on DaveF, make your insults even more biting --you can do even better--you must be 90% of the way to being thrown off by now--take it over the top--I promise to lead the cheers as you go up in flames.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Marc S.</b><p>in all seriousness, if you look at the industry dynamics as a whole...the biggest change in the hobby over the past 10 years is that grading fees have GONE DOWN. People submit lower-grade, less valuable, more modern cards to PSA, SGC, etc. today than they did 10 years ago. Significantly more...to the point that from an industry perspective, the grading companies are much happier to have higher volume, lower margin business than the reverse.<br /><br />At the end of the day, the only real way to address the needs that you so desperately advocate is to go back to grading fees of $8 - $10 on <i>every card</i> that is submitted, so that additional grading scrutiny can be assessed to each card graded. This wouldn't even begin to address the legacy issues, but it would address the prospective integrity issues.<br /><br />That said -- I cannot find any compelling reason that any of the grading companies would make such a change and switch their business model. Unless that happens, it seems like we are asking for Tiffany quality service from Joe's Diamond Shack.

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Interesting, but that is a real shame. Why even have a grading system or grading companies at all? We paid these people for their opinion if we have to get second “seal of approval” from Kevin or whoever why do we have to pay twice and what di we pay for the first time? Then what happens when Kevin or whoever is deemed to be tainted as well, then what a second “seal of approval” on our first “seal of approval”? <br /><br />At that point were better off not having any grading companies and doing like we did before they came along. IMO<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />John<br />

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Any thread that uses the word "schadenfreude" has to be locked down immediately, for everyone's good.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>who used that word? i used fruit loops and apple jacks <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Hi Marc--how is your new job going? Now that you are a commuter we need to grab lunch.<br /><br />I don't disagree--but do you think at $15 per card that PSA/SGC would do measurably better. I think PSA probably thinks that the job they are doing is just fine and that there isn't a problem.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br /><br />

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>is it worthwhile to read the 322 previous posts?

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Yes and no Steve, but I hear the TV movie will be very good.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>John,<br /><br />I agree but you are never going to get most collectors to resubmit their cards and you would never know which had been resubmitted.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Here's the condensed version.<br /><br /><br />NY Daily News accuses Mastro of wielding PSA grades like a tool and threatening a potential consigner.<br /><br />Scott Elkins says that Mastro does "doctor" cards. Has proof. Shows one of his consignments, from years ago, showing before and after evidence. He doesn't realize that this proof also proves he was complicit. Gets in a huge fight with half the board. Takes sensless cheap shots at Leon. Dares Leon to ban him. RIP. <br /><br />Long debate ensues about what is "acceptable preparation" of a card before grading and auction. (Water v. Bleach?)<br /><br />Shelly gets repeatedly reminded that he's a felon (like he was going to forget.)<br /><br />Jay and Charlie B. go a few rounds. <br /><br />Jim Crandell gets in a long discussion with Dan B., t-206, et al concerning cleaning up the hobby. He wants it done, NOW! (Just start with somebody else's cards.)<br /><br />Several other side stories rise and quickly die. <br /><br />I just saved you a couple of hours. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>"I agree but you are never going to get most collectors to resubmit their cards and you would never know which had been resubmitted."<br /><br />You may call me a status quo guy, relying exclusively on SGC's money-backed guarantee to navigate these choppy waters, but given this statement there is no hope getting the crap that has already been holdered off the street. <br /><br />That is why I find these discussions a little bit like a 100 year old game of musical chairs. We can talk ethics and change until we're all blue in the face -- but you can't get around your sentence above.<br /><br />

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>There's only a very small handfull of wimps on this board, but to them, a game of Paddy Cake is considered an ATTACK!<br /><br />Peace LUVIN jOE

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Posted By: <b>shane Leonard</b><p>Jim,<br />I know that you are completely against any type of "handling" a card whether tier 1 or 3, however I would be willing to bet you have some sort of "handling" done to your collection. Like someone mentioned above that it is not going to be a hack job, but with you having 25K slabbed cards in your collection there is going to be the wiped off dirt, wiped off wax stain, or pressed down corner some where. I know that majority of your collection came from years of collecting a long time ago. I also know that you had others submit the cards for you too. I am sure that you did not let a novice submit these for you. <br />I personal would not worry about what has or has not been done to the slabbed cards. Just keep going forward and enjoy the run to 100. <br /><br />My best,<br />Shane<br />

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>Jim, <br /><br />Last year I thought you were genuine in cleaning up the hobby and I even communicated to yourself that I wanted to be involed with your work and would contribute $100. Now I am just sick of hearing you talk about it and doing nothing, when you of all people actually have influence to do something. So please do something or shut up about the subject. I will even suggest a plan. <br /><br />If you truly want to clean up the hobby:<br /><br />1. Take everyone of your cards and inspect with a black light. <br />2. Place the cards that glow or have any glowing piece in a pile. <br />3. Buy a plane ticket for Kevin to come out and inspect the non-glowing cards for trimming, overgrades, tampered holders or flips, surface wrinkle resurfacing, rebacking etc. I am certain Kevin would do this for free, as he is trying to gain credibility. <br />4. Put Kevin's card in a pile. <br />5. Gauge the number of cards in both piles vs. total number of cards to get a good idea of the real problem at hand. I think you have enough slabs that this information gathered should have strong correlation to the general masses. If you have very few cards with problems, then maybe things are pretty sound. If you have many, then you and many other people are correct. <br />6. Publish an article about your findings e.g. the amazement of how few cards have problems or the amazement of the reverse and what specific reform needs done. <br />7. As a PSA HOF collector, you should have the ear of J.O., so yourself and Kevin can work with Joe on how improvements/reform can be made. Kevin can then earn the respect of J.O. and get a job and reform is in progress. <br /><br />Again, do something or shut up.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Shane,<br /><br />Yeah--probably a little dirt and dust along the way removed--<br /><br />Still enjoying the trip to 100--but it gets tougher.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Sorry to disappoint you Mike but I am not going to risk my kids education on this--my changes are all prospectively from here. Your game plan for cleaning up the hobby is Jim Crandell exposes himself to financial loss by havving his cards looked at. <br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey.

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>Imagine this. Somebody out there sets up the ultimate alteration-detection grading company possible. Every conceivable gadget (black lights, halogen lights, etc.) is employed, along with evaluators who possess the highest degree of certification/expertise possible. All cards submitted to this company are holdered with their trademarked "passes alteration examination" seal. These cards then hit the market. My guess is they (especially those coming from issues with a suspected high degree of alteration (e.g., T206's)) would sell for a not insignificant premium over such cards in "conventional" slabs. Should this happen then market forces will probably over time result in (1) "the crap that has already been holdered" and (2) not known/suspected by their owners to be altered to be re-examined.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Corey,<br /><br />That is exactly what I suggested and what Kevin's business idea is--I agree with you on the likely impact too.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Lucky

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...3rd party grading of 3rd party graders. <br /><br />I think this already exists to some degree. Most of my best T206 cards were once in PSA holders and now are in SGC holders. When I have sold them, I can show scans of how they have been in both holders.

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"Your game plan for cleaning up the hobby is Jim Crandell exposes himself to financial loss by havving his cards looked at."<br /><br />I disagree with on the risk part. For many reasons, there is no conceivable way that Joe would not pay you for your bad cards. It would be a win-win. Find out what percent is really bad, educate the public on the findings, get paid for bad cards and get a piece of mind on your collection. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />I agree with you on this. The whole point of the third party grading service is to provide an insurance policy when the card is sealed in their holder.<br /><br />Why would you or anyone ever do anything to damage or lessen the insurance policy that comes with your 25,000 cards?<br /><br />No offense to Kevin but if PSA says a card is good and Kevin says its bad, I think PSA wins the argument.<br /><br />Kevin seems extremely knowledgable but until he starts his own company and brands his product, it is sort of irrelvant what he or anybody else says. The cards are encapsulated with the PSA brand and will be valued as PSA graded cards, even if the card has a problem inside of the holder.<br /><br />Lastly, black-lighting is not an exact science, many cards will glow under a black-light that are totally original. The reason is if a card was taken out of an album there can be leftover residue remaining on the card.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Jim, in defense of Mike's idea, don't you think PSA would buy back the cards that you can prove are altered? I can't imagine the hit they would take if they ignored you, who is a PSA HOF member. His idea is not as crazy as it sounds. I agree with you that your interest in cleaning up the grading companies should not cost you a dime -- but perhaps PSA would do the right thing by you. Might not be a bad idea to at least inquire of them about this plan.

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>""3rd party grading of 3rd party graders. I think this already exists to some degree. Most of my best T206 cards were once in PSA holders and now are in SGC holders. When I have sold them, I can show scans of how they have been in both holders.""<br /><br /><br /><br />Will it look like this?<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s139/only_child/sgc_leach.jpg"><br /><br /><br />which happens to fall into category 1 & 2 & 1 again....or is it 2 & 1 & .5?<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />"No offense to Kevin but if PSA says a card is good and Kevin says its bad, I think PSA wins the argument."<br /><br />None taken. That is a true statement. <br /><br />Actually the idea for a business such as this came from Jim and fueled some other top-level collectors.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Kevin<br />

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"Lastly, black-lighting is not an exact science, many cards will glow under a black-light that are totally original. The reason is if a card was taken out of an album there can be leftover residue remaining on the card."<br /><br />True to some extent, but the majority of glowing is not simply speckled or bloched glowing on the back of the card from album residue. Even in those cases, it may be glue from rebacking and not album reminents. In any case, you can pretty easily tell from the texture of the card where you stand. When you have glowing front borders or glowing jagged corners, you have a clarly altered card. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Corey R. Shanus</b><p>I agree that SGC probably comes closest to such a company, but I suspect even they could improve in regard to equipment as well as grader expertise (not to say their graders aren't top notch, only that there are probably things about card alteration detection that they could still learn). But, and here is a key aspect, whether it is an existant company or one yet to be formed, it is critical that its holder possess such an identifying characteristic/seal that any dummy (e.g., yours truly) would know and respect the meaning of. I suspect most/many collectors could not look at a SGC/PSA/GAI holder and know when the card was slabbed and whether at the time of slabbing the company had state-of-the-art expertise in card alteration methodology.

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Mike,<br /><br />Well said. My point was that asking a person unfamilar with blacklighting to simply look for areas that glow could be problematic.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"Why would you or anyone ever do anything to damage or lessen the insurance policy that comes with your 25,000 cards?"<br /><br />Third party inspections are not damagin or lessening to your insurance policy. In fact, they give you confidence and knowledge on whether or not you need to enforce your insurance policy. <br /><br />"No offense to Kevin but if PSA says a card is good and Kevin says its bad, I think PSA wins the argument."<br /><br />This is exactly why Kevin would do this work for free. He is trying to gain credibiliy. If he can show PSA their errors, then he should gain their respect and maybe even land a gig. If they do not, he may be able to impress some other grading company or auction house to employ his services just through his work on this examination. <br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Mike and Jeff,<br /><br />Good point...if PSA were to reimburse me....maybe we could e-mail off line on your ideas on how I would approach them on this.<br /><br />Charlie,<br /><br />Yes but I hear more and more stories about altered cards getting through and I think some are beginning to lose a bit of confidence.<br /><br />Thanks--you guys are the kind of posters that make the Board worthwhile.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Mike,<br /><br />Good points again. But, in order to make the most accurate assesment the cards must be cracked out. SGC will rarely cross cards without cracking them out first. Many things cannot be seen in the holder that can only be seen at extreme angles out of the holder.<br /><br />Breaking his cards out for Kevin to examine would offer little insurance.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />I am not sure I want to attempt to defend PSA on this board but 2007 has been a difficult year to get any meaningful card graded with PSA. Sure, Kevin can remove a stain on a 33 Goudey card that smells like goo gone and get it passed the graders. But, PSA has made huge improvements in detecting alteration in PSA 8 or better.<br /><br />PSA cannot go back and regrade all 8,000,000 cards, all they can do is improve their abilities to detect alterations going forward. And, in my opinion, they have been succesful most recently. They should also stand behind the product and buyback cards that look bad in the holder. Not sure that they can and or will buyback every example but I have first hand knowledge that they do it all the time.<br /><br />Lastly, the marketplace is getting smarter and if a card looks bad in a PSA holder or any graded card holder the card will suffer at auction. For example, at the National in Mastro's auction the T205 Cobb PSA 8, looked trimmed in the holder and went for a fraction of what it would have gone for if it had not looked trimmed. The old adage buy the card and not the holder is outdated. I would buy the card and the holder. Make an evaluation of both the company assigning grade and make sure the card does not look altered in the holder and resembles the grade if not looks undergraded.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"Breaking his cards out for Kevin to examine would offer little insurance."<br /><br />That I agree with, as soon as you break the card out, you have essentially voided the warranty. Many alterations will be relatively hard to detect in the slab. You will only be able to get the relatively obvious ones, which Joe should not have much of an argument with for refund. However, under 100X magnification in the slab, you can strongly solidify ones suspicions. The slabbed pile of "reasonable doubt" cards will be the hard part. If you truly wanted to complete the story, a agreed break out session with PSA supervision would need to take place. <br />

Mastro and Psa
 

Posted By: <b>Peter S</b><p>how was jury duty? this thread is so long i now can't recall if you had it today or yesterday lol

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>""This is exactly why Kevin would do this work for free. He is trying to gain credibiliy. If he can show PSA their errors, then he should gain their respect and maybe even land a gig."""<br /><br /><br /><br />All for free? Mike...let's not get carried away (LOL). It takes roughly 8 hours to examine approx 40 cards. I have even spent more than an hour on a few.<br /><br />At this point I'm no longer looking for credibility, I've proven my point. I won't be quiting my day job but looking for something to fill the time void left from American Idol.<br /><br /><br /><br />Kevin

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Posted By: <b>Peter S</b><p>How long does it take PSA or SGC to examine 40 cards?

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>From what I am told from a very reliable source, PSA spends about 30 seconds per card and no longer than a minute. Remember the article by Joe about not needing maginfication etc.? I forget exactly what he wrote but it wasn't reassuring.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Peter S</b><p>Kevin I presume they "triage," i.e. spend more time on more important/expensive cards or those that require further examination, but even so if that is the average it is not hard to see how over many years many altered cards would escape detection especially given the level of expertise out there in various techniques.

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Posted By: <b>MikeU</b><p>"It takes roughly 8 hours to examine approx 40 cards."<br /><br />You would make approximately $40 per day in Newport Beach and would be about 18 times slower than the typical employee. No wonder there was little interest in your services:&gt;)

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Peter- my jury duty was yesterday and they discharged us by 3:00. It was really quiet at the Brooklyn Supreme Court.<br /><br />But my wife, who was called the same day, got empaneled on a murder case, but while they were doing voir dire there was a plea bargain (I think) and everyone was sent home.

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>And I was proud of myself because I thought I spelled it right...well it's French so I'm giving myself a free pass <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I need to clarify what I meant in my earlier statement. From now on if you quote me it needs have the words "without being provoked" added. Also you might learn how to spell my name if you are going to quote me. It's spelled correctly below:<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board, without being provoked, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jeez, Leon. Nobody quotes ME in their sigline. That's some rarified air right there.<br /><br />I think that quote would look awesome emblazoned on a plate, decoupaged onto a chunk of wood, or maybe written onto a fuzzy velvet blacklight painting of unicorns and rainbows.<br /><br />-Al

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Posted By: <b>Tom Nieves</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Calling him "asphaltman" is very inappropriate. I would suggest using "asphaltboy" instead.<br /><br />Tom

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Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />JimVB,<br /><br />Thanks for the concise summary. Please summarize all future Net54 threads that exceed 100 posts. Should add about a percent to GDP.<br /><br />Scot<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />I figured as long as you kept spelling my name wrong--CRANDALL--that I could reciprocate(not real<br />ly).<br /><br />Your new word additions put a different twist on it Leon. These three that make a career out of insulting me can claim that Crandell provoked me because he did not submit his 25,000 cards or I posted another damning post about Mastronet that provoked them. <br /><br />If you could persuade these three to act civil Leon it would be a much friendlier place. Simply tell them to ignore me and I will ignore them as I always do.<br /><br />I will drop my sign off line.<br /><br />Tom,<br /><br />Funny but I am taking the high road and will let his ongoing attacks speak for themselves--he must be embarrassed by now.<br /><br />Charlie,<br /><br />What is your basis for saying that PSA has imroved its ability recently to detect high-end alterations?<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Yes...asphaltboy is embarrassed and now has his tail between his legs. Good one Jim. And good one to you to Tom...whoever you are.<br /><br /><br />Edited to say...asphaltboy...god this must be 5th grade all over again. how original.

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Posted By: <b>PeterS</b><p>When my brothers and I were kids and cussing at each other my mother thought we were calling each other asphalts.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Simple, the people that are doing what you describe are complaining about how difficult it has become to get the right answer from PSA. <br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Charlie,<br /><br />Thats one of the more encouraging things I have heard recently.<br /><br />Kevin--have you heard anything to this effect?

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Posted By: <b>PeterS</b><p>What Charlie says echoes what I have been hearing -- there seems to be a reluctance to grade high end big ticket cards recently. EDITED TO ADD To clarify what I am hearing is NOT encouraging -- I am hearing this reluctance extends to cards that are perfectly legitimate with no evidence of alteration.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />PSA is so scared to put big cards in their holders that many original cards are being kicked for "evidence of trimming". <br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>I am surprised at how few nice cards showed up on eBay after the National. eBay seems to be very sparce for desirable cards right now and I think it is a function of how tough they are. Ordinarily immediately following the big shows eBay seems to be flooded with 8's and above from onsite grading. It certainly did not happen this year.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>"Ordinarily immediately following the big shows eBay seems to be flooded with 8's and above from onsite grading. It certainly did not happen this year."<br /><br /><br /><br />We will have to wait until the graders get a little older and can count higher than 8 (LOL).<br /><br /><br /><br />"Kevin--have you heard anything to this effect?"<br /><br /><br /><br />Personally, I haven't noticed a difference or heard anything at all. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Wow, Peter and Charlie: I'm not sure that makes me feel better about PSA, but at least they're showing some trepdiation, right?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Larry</b><p>Jeff-<br /><br />regarding PSA recently.........All they are showing everyone now is they can take dealers & collectors money without being prudent during their grading process. The policy of really nice cards getting trimmed or altered status in such quantities is a recent and dangerous policy. They are rejecting so many good and untainted cards it has made everyone uneasy and can only be balanced by dealers and collectors limiting their submissions, the wheel will slow down. Over compensating by ridiculous strict and unrealistic standards is no better than grading obviously trimmed cards and holdering them.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I will take ridiculously strict and unrealistic over grading obviously trimmed cards any day.

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Posted By: <b>Peter</b><p>Jim as a collector I agree with you, but consider the perspective of guys who submit cards for a living, who now can't get legitimate cards graded.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I'm with Peter 100% on this one. If I paid good money for a raw card and submitted it, I wouldn't want it rejected for no discernable reason.<br /><br />They shouldn't overcompensate one way or the other. They should get it right, every time. Period. That's what we pay them for.

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Posted By: <b>Tony Andrea</b><p>I guess I'm a little bewildered about this whole thing.<br />The solution seems so simple to me.<br />1. Have qualified graders that are trained properly to authenticate cards correctly.<br />2. If a mistake is made, (people are human), stand behind your product and the collector<br /> 100% who has purchased your product.<br /> Am I wrong here??<br /> <p>Tony<br />

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Posted By: <b>Jay</b><p>Todd--I had the pleasure of seeing Jim's collection a few years ago. From what I saw the cards were spectacular and, although I am no expert, I didn't see anything that was obviously questionable.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>I agree, Barry. Here's a non-baseball example. I have a set of 1948 Bowman Basketball cards thay have been in my possession since before PSA, or any other graders existed. (They were my dad's.)<br /><br />Several cards in the set are mis-cut and would probably have trouble grading. But it's clear that the miscuts are factory, because they are identical. <br /><br />But if I send the Mikan in, I would anticipate it getting rejected for being "trimmed" or "cut from a sheet". As long as I'm not trying to sell, I don't care. But someday, my kids might care. For now, they'll stay ungraded.<br /><br /><img src="http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb189/jvb6034/1948BowmanBasketball.gif"><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>I think PSA is probably afraid of someone with the skills of say Kevin S sending something altered in and documenting it for the world to see. This tells me that the card doctors are ahead of PSA and that's why PSA is being so cautious right now.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- I'm sure those Bowmans came that way as you said, but I can see the graders having some apprehension with them. I guess graded with the MC qualifier would be the best they could do.

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Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>I am sympathetic to the honest dealers but I think so many of them that are submitting are fooling around with the cards that I think if there is any question at all--don't grade it.<br /><br />Jim