I meant to quote this above ↑↑

"Brian,
You seem to have been a bit tongue-in-cheek with some of your posts, so I also hope that you are only kidding about brain cancer. I don't know you outside of this board, so I can't really gauge if this is your sense of humor or not. If you are serious, then I sincerely also wish you the best with beating it and recovery." -me, two mins ago

Cold habit. Still waving hi.

The Holsum's were known to exist. The Herpolsheimer's outside of the 1916 set, were not, until the dealer in my case in May 1999 shook his hand over them and said they weren't authentic/real or just plain fake. Your choice.

"The Herpolsheimer's cards are fake because someone in the 1970's decided the best way to make fake 1921 cards was to use a pattern from the same binder which looks (to you) like a disco floor."

You're making an assumption. The person may have seen the dance floor and the pattern or saw the pattern before going to press. Oh, did I give my uncle's background away again? Oh, so sorry. LOL.

"Plus the dealer said they were fake (you said "waiving" again, so I guess I will stop asking you to stop). Plus it is possible for a printer to make fakes. Plus fakes exist of other sets."

Got it as long as printer is in reference to a person and not something next to a desktop or laptop.

"I guess we are back at an impasse."

Hallelujah! This from an Agnostic. When weren't we at an impasse?

"And I hope you were kidding about having brain cancer (that would be in bad taste, but at least you wouldn't have it). But if it is true, I only wish the best for you."

No, I announced that on Net54 on December 25, 2020 and feel free to e-mail me for a fascinating attempted effort to vote for Alfred E. Neuman on November 3, 2020 followed by brain surgery on December 1, 2020 at UPMC Presbyterian Hospital for a 2 cm+ by 1 cm + by 3 cm + brain tumor. I asked the doctors to wake me for the Tuesday afternoon game that day. Yes, December 1, 2020 was a Tuesday and because of Covid the game was rescheduled to 4:00 p.m. My brother said he was leaving because I wasn't waking up and I told him that I was awake and as I spoke the words JuJu Smith-Schuster caught a touchdown pass. Not a bad way to awaken.

Other members on this board now of this story.

Waving goodbye here and look forward to your next post. :)

The guy in the photo is not me.

The earth is flat (as I wave my hand over my phone).

In 20 years, I hope someone puts as much effort defending my statement as Brian has put into the statement from “the unnamed dealer” from 20 years ago…

This thread feels like an “argument” with a flat-Earther. No amount of evidence will dissuade them. Brian is exhibiting a deep distrust of many knowledgeable experts (akin to scientists) on this forum. How can we rebuild this trust, Brian? I am truly worried about you.

Wow! November 28, 2023 at 12:52 p.m. I have a ringing job endorsement by Jeffrey. Oh, that's right. I've found a way to not to have to work a job since November 1, 2013 and I am on no government aid or disability.

Sorry, Jeffrey, but I'll have to pleasantly turn down your ringing endorsement. That would have really stood out.

No offense.

Happy Holidays!

Please don't sprain your wrist.

Moderated debate at the Net54 dinner in Cleveland

Thank you, Curt. No change since the surgeon got 91-95% of the tumor in the left side of my brain during surgery at UPMC Presbyterian on December 1, 2020. Went through six months of radiation every weekday and a chemo capsule in my apartment each evening. Originally on November 3, 2020 in the emergency room at St Clair Hospital I asked the doctor the prognosis and at 11:43 (this is my time memory which drives my sister-in=law up a wall) I was told 5-7 median. I turned my head to the right to my brother and told him immediately I was going to be around 30 years.

I approach this battle like a barroom brawl. Everything is legal and if I have this SOB down, I am not allowing time for it to get back up. The tests over the past three have backed my statement to my brother.

The only thing in the six months that annoyed me is that I was restricted from driving which is completely understandable. It, however, nearly interrupted a tradition I have held since 2004. My father died January 8, 2002. He was cremated. We interred him after his birthday in 2003.

Every May 11 from 2004-2020 I traveled from Pittsburgh to Fremont/Ballville, Ohio to pay respects. Because of the cautionary period I was at risk of missing it, but a friend volunteered and drove to and from. I will always be appreciative. Next year would have been my dad's 99th birthday and 2025 of course is a date I am missing at no cost, so to the Stage 2 Astrocytoma the barroom brawl is on.

Nope. I have a habit. No matter where the show is whether it be Chicago, Cleveland, Atlantic City and going back for this one......Baltimore in 2012, when I travel to the show, whether by plane (Chicago once) or by car (all the rest but did not go to Chicago this year) I go to the National and come back to sleep in my own bed the same evening.

Sorry to cost the lawyers cross-examination.

Still, feel free to look back on my posts here and in 2004 and try to find a contradiction. Good luck. There is better money betting on the Pirates winning a world series under Bob Nutting's ownership.

I'm not saying you don't have one so don't interpret this in a negative way. I have a clear conscience to go with the experience. I'll take the conscience over the reputation. Now, this is coming from an Agnostic, but there was somebody in some book who had the same approach. Oh, my. Imagine an Agnostic with a conscience. No, I'm not Catholic so the holy water and exorcisms won't clear me of a clear and clean conscience.

In all sincerity, and as someone who has had positive dealings with Brian in the past, this is where I am now as well. Just as a matter of epistemic humility, I would hope that anyone could acknowledge that any particular one of their beliefs has some non-zero probability of being incorrect, regardless of whether there is mounting evidence on the other side of the scale. As trivial a matter as baseball cards are in the grand scheme of things, this has been genuinely upsetting to behold.

I think I understand now
 

Can’t speak for the rest of the group, but the posts from this morning have helped to eliminate a lot of my confusion.

Glenn,

First, Happy Holidays. I am sorry you feel that way, but from what i have experienced with the cards, although brief, they are fake, and I stand by that assertion.

Folks,

Feel free to pull this up in 2004 in addition to now. Nothing in my opinion or accounting of matters has changed. 19 years. No changes. Just additional fraudulent cards.

I appreciate that. Happy holidays to you as well.

This “debate” has become hilarious in its absurdity.

The only part I feel bad for is the next person that finds some REAL 1921 Herpolsheimer cards. They will potentially have to wade through this mess of a thread and read Brian’s comments that are not based on any actual evidence.

It is just bad for card scholarship to have this amount of misinformation and confirmation bias (by Brian) out there.

I echo Jeff’s thoughts on this being a painful thing to watch.

Would someone please just threaten to sue Archive and bring this full circle?

Rhett,

Still referring you back to post 240 which you haven't answered.

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.


So, buying Herpolsheimer cards supposedly from 1921 with backs from the late 1930s or early 1940s is a good investment?

The backs are not from 1930's-1940's. The binder is from 1930's-1940's. There is no way to know how old the back designs are just using the binder as evidence.

The binder also has a border that we all agree was used on legitimate 1921 Holsum Bread cards.

So if a border from this binder was used on 1921 Holsum Bread cards, why is it impossible that a border from the same binder was used on legitimate 1921 Herpolsheimer's cards?

No one is saying that this proves the Herpolsheimer's are real. But the binder also does not prove they are fake. It just proves that the border existed before the 1970's.

:D I'll wave at the bold print. :D

I was thinking that very same thought the other day...

In other words, you are admitting that you cannot explain how a border from the late 1930's can appear on a 1921 Holsum Bread card. Because according to the bold print, this is impossible.

LOL! Hiccups! Oh, thank you.

"In other words, you are admitting that you cannot explain why a border from the 1930's can appear on a 1921 Holsum (actually the Herpolsheimer is fake) Bread card."

Not in other words. Those are the perfect words. Yes, I'm stealing a Hollywood punchline.

A border from the 1930's can appear on a 1921 Holsum Bread (actually the Herpolsheimer is fake) card when it is actually not from 1921, but a much later date and to go even further when the printer found the back design for his print.

Thank you. Out of all of the over 300 posts in this thread, yours was the best setup line of any.

Updated at 6:07 p.m. and altered from Michael's original post.

Thank you so much.

Waving you the best :D

So you are saying the 1921 Holsum Bread cards are from a later date?

Oops. My cold. So, sorry. Graduated from waive to wave to misreading with a cataract in my left eye. So sorry. Holsum good. Herpolsheimer fraud.

Still, waving you a good day. :D

Look forward to reading from you. :D

But how can Holsum be good? According to the bold print, it has a back design from the 1930's.

For, oh, about the fourth time I have covered this with you, but it's entertaining. The Holsum has been known before the 1930s. The Herpolsheimer? Fraud after the creation of the back pattern associated with it and please feel free to note I stated previously in a post that the pattern was close, but I was curious about the other pattern noted by number under the first in the book online. That pattern was not shown. Go to post #240 and scroll down.

Waving you on.

Best with your follow up. Notice how i haven't contradicted myself outside of one cold/cataract moment that just passed.

Another wave.

Heads up. Going out shopping. So, if it's a slow response.

No, no more follow-ups. We are going round in circles, so I hereby waive my right to continue to participate in this thread.

Welcome to our world Brian…but I assure you it is far less entertaining for us.

Dipping out of the discussion (again)

We won't entertain that notion. However, whilst everyone has been debating the veracity of the 1921 Herpolshimers, we have acquired several cards off our World's Toughest Want List.

This is the most surreal thread I've ever seen.

I will sue the archive if one of our lawyers will take my case and be my lawyer for a box of 1988 Donruss (unopened!) OR 1990 Score football* (also unopened!).

* A dealer told me all 1990 Score football cards are fake, so be aware these are factually not real cards.

8 pages on a Net54 thread is incredible

Still haven't answered about post 240:

https://archive.org/details/LanstonM...e/n23/mode/2up

A typographical specimen booklet containing borders and ornaments for casting on the Lanston Monotype Composition Caster, Lanston Monotype Type-Caster, Lanston Monotype Giant Caster and Monotype-Thompson Type-Caster. This booklet is from a Lanston Monotype specimen book (binder) bearing the general title "Monotype Type Faces." It is undated, but based on internal evidence elsewhere in the binder it is from the late 1930s or early 1940s.

It’s a great thread. I’ve enjoyed all of it. Brian is entitled to his opinion, regardless of how unsupported it strikes many folks. Surprised at the level of vitriol it has gotten out of some people. In the grand scale of things to be seriously irked about, this doesn’t move the needle.

There is a lot of group think on the board, where certain people speak and others fall in line like the high oracle of Delphi has spoken. Props for Brian holding his ground despite the groundswell against him. Man is entitled to his opinion as they say.

This means nothing other than in the 1930-40’s those typographical specimens were known in the printing world It says nothing of whether they existed earlier or not. It proves nothing other than your 1970’s disco “theory” was stupid.

I have provided both concrete and circumstantial evidence based upon subject matter, teams, a full timeline of production where these cards all line up exactly right which would have been unknown to even the best fraudster.

You are grasping as straws and have nothing left. Every theory you have had has been debunked. You are simply being a clown at this point and half of me believes you are doing it on purpose to punk everyone (actually that is the most favorable reason I can think of what you are doing as the alternative is that you really are this thick headed)

Nah! That is bull!

There are facts and there are non-facts. There aren’t two sides to this stupidity. Nobody should be condoning bullshit behavior and save the “there are always two sides to every story” card.

Brian is being either purposefully pigheaded or (worse) he really believes this stuff.

It may seem silly to you but wrong information shouldn’t be condoned or explained by people like you so save it.

I respectfully disagree.

A fraudster with knowledge would have a ball with the fraudulent Herpolsheimer set.

The dealer said the cards were made in the 1970's which means he knew about their creation. Can't get around it. They reminded me of a disco dance floor which I agree disco was moronic. LOL!

He’s not speaking truth against conceited elites; he’s lying and making shit up that directly contradicts the evidence. Hobby experts are often wrong, but that’s not what is happening here.

Follow evidence, not people.

I literally laughed out loud when reading this. You captured their essence perfectly.

Or…

He had no idea what the hell he was talking about and just threw that out there.

Steve,

Thank you.

I just let the vitriol slide and not participate in it.

Rhett,

If you talked to the guy he knew. That is what has stayed with me for over 24 years.

This thread is starting to remind me a lot of the covid thread. One guy being extremely interesting and others trying to bring some reality into the thread.:D:D:D

LOL!

Oh, this is the best one yet. Ask any board member if I have ever-repeat ever-made something up.

Still, it's a free board. Let's hear your accusation WITHOUT PROFANITY.

The only time in over three hundred posts on this thread have raised my voice because there is a chance children could be reading through this. Outside of that feel free to point anywhere in this thread where I have lost patience with anyone or any argument.

Ben,

Oh, thank you for calling me "extremely interesting". Ego boost. Who needs "reality" in the thread when I had it first in May 1999. Yes, I'm pulling seniority.

LOL!

Happy Holidays.

No one has accused you of losing patience with an argument. You are lying and sticking to debunked garbage. You keep stating, over and over, even after the original ads have been found and shown, that all and any card of this series is a fake. That is blatantly untrue and false. You are just lying at this point because you are too proud or too stupid to apply even basic common sense.

If you are offended by the word “shit,” the world is going to be a harsh place.

No problem.:D Made my fair share of extremely interesting posts and even a extremely interesting thread or 2 in my short 10 years on here.

I know I have two to my credit.

Somehow I doubt that any minors other than me will make it to page 8 of this thread.

Thank you for keeping your statement profanity free.

Attachment 598919

:D:eek::D

Thank you!