http://www.candimanauctions.com/Ted_...x__-LOT17.aspx

VG...

With creases, surface scratches, rounded corners and writing on the back... but at least there's a back scan

Yes, exactly!

I hope if anyone bids, they give us the results after they send them in. I for one am very curious. But the more I look at some cards, the more I think like some one said "ther could be gold in them ther hills"............................

in your dreams!

That's what I mean; some of them really seem to good to be true

I was just now outbid on the 56 nm+ mantle. I would have for sure let you guys know the result after I sent it to psa. I'm still considering jumping back in since it is a pretty card and it's for my PC

As for them advertising here, not a snowball's chance in hell as of now.

That was the card I was watching. I never bid, but I must have looked it over a dozen times. I just kept coming back to the fact that it's just the type of card that Battlefield would have cracked to sell raw. It also has the appearance of an 8, and no worse than 7. If it isnt altered and doesn't have some other hidden flaw, they left several thousand dollars on the table by not grading. That's what kept me from jumping.

I'd say a thread with 21,000+ views is sort of like advertising (good or bad). :D

anyone win anything? Will you be sending it in?

Exactly...that line of thought made me underbidder on NUMEROUS cards I could have been more aggressive on. The Brooks Robinson rookie....the same 1956 Mantle as everyone else. The Fran Tarkenton. Hell, I could go on and on. About the only one I felt good about, and didn't really mind losing was the 1954 Hank Aaron rookie graded PSA A (Altered). I least I KNEW that one was altered. The others almost looked too good to be true, and I'm thinking there are going to be some disappointed buyers after PSA returns the cards 6 months from now. I hope that is not the case, but I have my doubts.

Looked a few minutes ago and I won 37 cards for 2 sets I am working on. I collect lower end cards so there will be no grading involved.

All the high grade-looking raw cards in the auction are altered. The question is whether they get past the graders. No auction house in business to make money would offer a near mint, registry-popular valuable card without getting it graded first. This is a fact.

Ended up winning a lower end Reggie Jackson rc and a couple of cheap Roger Clemens cards, one of which was already graded. I doubt I will submit anything to PSA.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

When I submitted my collection to SCP last year, not only did they grade everything, but they also reholdered my older cards to make sure they were not tampered.

Two reasons, one to get maximum dollars for the consignment and two to make sure the buyer knows what he’s buying as opined by a third party. And this was for smaller dollar items as well.

The rationale why an auction house doesn’t want to achieve these objectives and rather sell the cards raw was the main reason why I didn’t participate in this auction.

Separately I showed my wife the auction and this thread, she has no experience with auctions or with cards for that matter but he first question she had was how do you know the previous owners of battlefield is not bidding up their own items? I couldn’t answer that conflict of interest...

Post Mortem
 

Really interesting looking over the final prices from the Auction last night.

No doubt prices could have been higher, but the Battles Bros still monetized about 50K+ of their inventory, assuming that the handful of "outside consignors" weren't making up for a lot of the items.
Plus that sweet, sweet 20% buyer's premium as the cherry on top. It's a pretty efficient business model by any account.

I hope folks are happy once they receive the cards, and that we have robust feedback on the board from everyone that bid and won.


And after the reaction on here, how could folks fail to be intrigued, after all: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' -- PT Barnum, Oscar Wilde, DJT, or whomever you want to attribute that original sentiment to...

didn't pt barnum also say theres a sucker born every day!

I stand corrected...and even more accurately his quote said..."there's a sucker born every minute!"

Don't forget the 13% eBay/PayPal charges they save.

At this point they are willing to refund on cards not described as altered that come back as such after being submitted so the losses are limited to the cost of grading. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of their stuff is not altered but will most likely turn out to be severely overgraded which they hid with small scans. No recourse there so hopefully for the Battles they have lots of customers like Ben who do not care and will not be submitting. The Battles could be in business for a very very long time.

And as far as their having consignors other than their parents I do not believe it for a second. I think Daniel wrote they had 15 other consignors--all of whom had raw cards and none of whom wanted to get them graded. What are the odds?

...and two to take him.

+1...also I'd assume there is a timeline for money back "warranty" and with PSA's timely service this could curtail returns.

I'm 99% positive PSA is well aware of this auction and the cards involved. Maybe the submitters should write on the box "Candiman Auctions" and see what happens.

No. That was Stormy Daniels. :D

Or maybe a card should be graded on its own merit without any preconceived notions?

And I highly doubt PSA gives a crap about the source of which a card was obtained for submission.

Any submitter ever been asked by a TPG, "Where did you obtain this card?"

Yes actually but that was a long time ago, Mike Baker called me about some cards that it turned out were trimmed and wanted to know the source.

Hopefully those winning items in this auction are paying with a credit card. At least they will have the option to dispute a charge if the card received is not as described.

2 thoughts
 

Two thoughts:

1. Remember to put "OK to slab as trimmed" on you PSA subs. Otherwise you will get your cards back in the cardboard slab with an "N1 trimmed. Not graded" label.


2. Hope I'm wrong, but pray that Candiman is still in business when you try to return stuff. This could be an attempt to unload $50,000 of inventory and disappear (or declare bankruptcy).

It must drive you insane that every morning when you wake up you realize that it wasn't a bad dream, it's reality.

Most specifically exclude auction sites, so disputing may be difficult.

I guess I never read the fine print as I was unaware of that. Perhaps I will review my credit card terms and conditions this evening. Is it common knowledge this is the policy for most cards? Does anyone know specifically about amex or the Costco master card?

Sorry to say it, but after a 300+ post thread on these guys, if anyone loses money they deserve it.

totally agree!

These are the 2 lots I won. At $39.60 inc buyers premium I think I done real good.

This on has 13 1959 Fleer Ted Williams cards. If anybody has any in this condition for this price I am your huckleberry.:) http://www.candimanauctions.com/Lot_...l-LOT1154.aspx

I also won this lot of 24 1955 Bowman cards that includes 6 umpire cards. I needed 2 of the umpires for my set that is now 6 cards from complete. Now I have 22 cards for trade bait.http://www.candimanauctions.com/Lot_...L-LOT1141.aspx

U done very good ben!

Amex definitely has it in the fine print. That's the one I checked for sure before this auction, hoping I could have that to fall back on, since Amex usually sides with buyers.

A little off topic but I side with the CC companies on this. Because there is a whole group of people that just buy garbage at pennies on the dollar. Then when they don't win big they force a refund.

they {bros} probably knew that; now I understand why they were fighting with me on the paypal issue so much.

Just got my invoice and I would say their shipping is also very reasonable at $8 for the 2 lots I won.

Just pulled up my terms and conditions for amex. The section on disputes if you are unhappy with your purchase was surprisingly short. No specific mention of auction houses, but interesting that the policy does not apply to purchases out of state or made 100 miles from home. I'm not sure how that rule would apply to an online purchase made from my home but to a company out of state. Perhaps an attorney could clarify. Hi Peter


Your Rights

If You Are Dissatisfied With Your Credit Card Purchases If you are dissatisfied with the goods or services that you have purchased with your credit card, and you have tried in good faith to correct the problem with the merchant, you may have the right not to pay the remaining amount due on the purchase. To use this right, all of the following must be true:

1. The purchase must have been made in your home state or within 100 miles of your current mailing address, and the purchase price must have been more than $50. (Note: Neither of these are necessary if your purchase was based on an advertisement we mailed to you, or if we own the company that sold you the goods or services.)

2. You must have used your credit card for the purchase. Purchases made with cash advances from an ATM or with a check that accesses your credit card account do not qualify.

3. You must not yet have fully paid for the purchase. If all of the criteria above are met and you are still dissatisfied with the purchase, contact us in writing at: American Express PO Box 981535 El Paso TX 79998-1535 While we investigate, the same rules apply to the disputed amount as discussed above. After we finish our investigation, we will tell you our decision. At that point, if we think you owe an amount and you do not pay, we may report you as delinquent.

Terms are more generous if you are a victim of fraud, and in my personal opinion if I bought a card described in a much better condition that the one I received that would constitute fraud. I'm not certain the credit card company would agree, but I would certainly argue my case.

I have a feeling most people who are just relying on returning the items have not been burned in the past. I sent over 4000$ to an auction house last year and they never even called me back. They disappeared Into the wind and took over 50k total from buyers. It just isn't that easy to get your money back.

That sucks; and were there no legal avenue's you could pursue?

We are pursuing a class action suit. I'll reiterate it isn't easy to "just get your money back". Local cops don't even care, so it's about getting an attorney to scare him enough so he pays.

I just lost my first dispute on a Citi credit card. I have had less than a dozen go my way, some quite large too over the past 35 years. This one was against Morphy Auctions. They had misidentified the player in a photo I bought. The purchase price was a $350 and the reason Citi would not find in my favor was because the merchant, Morphy Auctions, did not agree to give me a refund.

Well yeah, they did not want to give me a refund when I contacted them upon receipt of the photo so I was not thinking they were going to lay down for Citi. I was able to provide Citi with overwhelming/irrefutable proof the image was misrepresented. Apparently all Morphy had to do was respond to my dispute saying they do not agree. I was provided their response and it consisted of my invoice and proof of delivery, neither addressed the dispute. LOL. I tried to appeal it and Citi instead gave me an in house credit. Not the outcome I wanted but they can probably afford the $350 hit more than I can.

what AH?

The brothers are not answering my emails but had no problem sending me an invoice. No communication at all. I imagine it will be worse if I try to get my money back, that is if I decide to pay in the first place.

I've slogged through the 30-some odd pages of this thread and must confess that I don't get why there is such an uproar here. Maybe its because I buy ungraded cards almost exclusively, in fact I strongly prefer them. Here is what my takeaway is from the Battles'. They freely admit they are selling some cards that have been altered - they have identified them as such in the auction. Additionally, they are guaranteeing that if any card sold in their auction that was NOT identified as altered comes back that way from a TPG they will offer a full refund. That seems like a reasonable position to take.

As a buyer of ungraded cards, I pay little to no attention to the sellers grading of the card - it is almost always overstated! I make my own decision based upon the scan. I do expect the seller to be honest about flaws that may not show up on the scan, or to identify if the card has been altered or trimmed, but just because the seller claims the card is "NM-MT" and its really only "VG-EX" or comes back from PSA as a 4 I don't see that as fraud.

I know that Battlefield was renowned for doctoring/photoshopping the photos of the cards so that the actual card did not match the photo. It does seem, however, that when the buyer took issue with this refunds were generally given.

So, if the photos are genuine, and you know in advance if you are buying a trimmed (or otherwise altered card), I don't see how this auction is any different from any other. Those who desire the lower risk of buying a card in a graded holder are certainly going to sit out this auction; those who prefer them out of slabs can jump in.

Is this the type of guarantee you are talking about? If you are unhappy with our product send back the unused portion and we will return the unused portion of your money.

Why are all these questions coming up after the auction? Shouldn't people have asked them BEFORE they bid?

Bids
 

They had over 2400 items in their auction. 980 auctions did not receive a bid. around 650 auctions only received 1 bid. I wonder how many bids are a direct result of their exposure on this board?

I felt like many of the lower end items had starting bids that were way too high.
Even on the lower end items, many of the descriptions failed to mention inks stains, writing, etc.

I won 13 lots, mostly lower end items. I declined to bid on anything that didn't feel right to me. My only concern is with the lack of back scans. I hope I don't get some nasty suprises when I receive the cards and look at the backs.

Rick

Jay what shocks me the most is how many people here participated despite all that was brought up in this thread. That is remarkable.

That can be said about many AHs/eBay sellers and threads on this forum.:D

I bet there were a lot more that participated than we'll ever know. They just won't admit it. This thread was great free advertising.

Same here. I guess that explains why a guy like Mastro could stay in business for so long. I do understand the guys buying low grade cards for cheap prices. But I wouldn't have considered any of the relatively higher end stuff.

I'm sure there were a number of board members who ended up bidding simply as a result of being made aware of an auction they may not have even known about prior. But the way I see it, that's not really the point.

The point is that it was necessary to give this a full airing up-front, and not let Candiman Auctions hang around and grow as if it were just another AH breaking onto the scene. This thread may have increased awareness of their AH temporarily with some "free advertising", and maybe put some extra bidders into their 1st Auction, but the Long Game here is what's important -- if they fly by night and screw people over even in the slightest, they won't be around anymore.

For better or worse, I was the one who opened pandora's box on Candiman Auctions possibly being Battlefield/War_Eagle on the old thread last Saturday. Other board members did some stellar work proving that it was indeed the Battles family who created this new AH, then prompting the Battles Brothers to then come on here to state their case. I think overall the restraint shown in the discussion has been pretty fair, given the eBay history of Battlefield/WEV.

As I've already said once, I think the board should be very proud of itself for acting to protect the hobby from any actors whose business practices even appear in the slightest to be designed to take advantage of collectors' naivete or greed.
Well done to all who have made their well thought-out points.

I for one can't wait to hear from the board once 1) the cards arrive in board members' hands, and 2) once these cards start to pop with the TPG's. This is going to rumble on for a while...

The definition of Irony
 

There are a significant number of board members who buy graded cards and when they arrive immediately crack them out of their so-called “tombs” to free them, so they can feel and smell them as part of their collection.

Now there are a significant number of board members who buy candiman cards and when they arrive immediately send them to PSA to be “entombed” to find out whether they have found a bargain or been ripped off.

I realize there are board members who don’t belong to either group or just one, but I suspect there is considerable overlap and members who belong to both. The irony of this situation does not escape me and I have to chuckle.

The goldmine is the TPG, who exploit this perfect storm and are more than willing to grade the same card every time it changes hands in some cases.

Who feeds the TPG gold mine? Look in the mirror?:D

Disclaimer: I belong to neither of the two groups. I have sent a few ungraded cards for grading though and I have also cracked a few slabs (to cross from GAI to SGC), but never for nefarious reasons.:eek:

Well I didn't see the thread until after the auction.

Dan Mckee

There are a significant number of board members who buy graded cards and when they arrive immediately crack them out of their so-called “tombs” to free them, so they can feel and smell them as part of their collection.

Guilty all day, everyday

Maybe it can't be stated here, but I am curious too. What AH did this? That is absolutely awful

Me too, but "feeling and smelling them" does sound a bit like 50 Shades Of Cardboard

Where did you hear about the auction, Dan?

Same here. I have to have the cards in my hands.

I agree it's not that easy to win a charge back. I bought a $4500 Ruth on ebay a few years ago, and the package arrived empty. It took three months of back and forth with AMEX, and they only agreed to a reversal after I sent them a signed affidavit from my postmaster explaining the package they handled felt "light." Thank goodness I was working with a small town post office.

what was the market price for that Ruth..

You know what they say

" if you pay light..the package is going to feel light "

Scammers abound everywhere. I once accepted a return for some 1961 Fleer Basketball cards after the guy complained that they had qualifiers on them (after he bid on them and won them with the same qualifiers, because I had scans on everything, and mentioned the qualifiers in the title). He ended up sending back cracked BVG holders and not my cards. Because of the advice over on PSA boards, I opened the package in front of a postal employee who confirmed that I received a "brick" in the mail. While the PSA board gave me good advice, some real jerks over there believed I was lying or at fault somehow in the matter. Made me realize how there are some real grade A assholes in the world.

I'm surprised it came to that. I would have expected the eBay guarantee to take care of an issue like that.

When the winnings start arriving, please post them on here. As for me, I'm still waiting on my one lowly card.

Dead silence from Candiman for almost a week now. Good luck everyone....

I am certain they are busy packing, shipping and preparing for the April auction. Keep those bids rolling in, Net54ers!!!!

WTF does this even mean? I won an auction, so I can assure you I didn’t “pay light.” I’ve never “paid light” on any card I own. Are you suggesting I somehow deserved to get scammed?

A friend of mine bought a 52T Mantle PSA 4 a few years back and a 57T Mantle PSA 5 showed up in the package. The weight was right, anyhow.

Well, per Jake’s logic, depending on the price he paid, perhaps he was only due a 57 Mantle.

Per my logic, that’s awful. It feels like such a punch in the gut when the package doesn’t contain what you bought. And the fact that a card was sent, with tracking, makes it much harder to build your case as eBay and PayPal are pretty binary when it comes to believing that a tracking number proves the seller’s case.

Holy Shit!! That's horrible Peter!! Did the problem ever get resolved?

Yeah, it took time and quite a bit of effort though, and some luck. He got his money back, and he got to keep the 57T lol.

Hi
 

Has anyone received any cards yet??

I have not but I got a tracking number.

Same here

Right, for example, if you pay $1000 for a 1952 Topps PSA 3 Mantle at an 'auction' won this month and won ' the card....i would consider that paying light and expecting to get a light package. (getting a brick in the mail or getting nothing is still getting a light package...its a term of art) Its not like almost everyone thinks this auction will be full of feeling light packages of people that paid light....its not a shocker


I think 57 mantles weigh less than 52 mantles....less cardboard :)

If pay light you are going to get something that feels light in the mail

Sell the holder not the card..

I don't believe the wouldn't ship, that wasn't battlesfields MO

I received tracking on my lot from another auction house which was never delivered. A label was printed, but nothing was ever dropped at the Post office.