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[QUOTE=Rhotchkiss;2206401]
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While Morant is again sidelined due to another injury (knee), the Grizzlies continue to demolish every other team in the league. They just beat the Bucks, with a healthy Giannis, by 25 points the night before last. Tonight, they're up 63 to 37 over the Warriors at halftime.
All this talk about how Morant single-handedly turned them into a top team is hilarious. The soon to be 18-2 Morantless Grizzlies are the best team in the league when Morant isn't on the floor. That 90% win rate drops to 62.5% when he's out there (35-21). Again, don't get me wrong, I LOVE me some Ja Morant, but I'm getting really sick of this narrative about him being the reason for the Grizzlies' success this season. He's an absolutely electric player and so much fun to watch. But he's also a considerable defensive liability. Not as bad defensively as Trae Young (who just so happens to be the worst defensive player in the past 40+ years, literally), but he is certainly a below average defender. |
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Also, it’s a fun reread. How has Doncic’s major rookie cards held up against the 52 Mantle over the past 2.5 years since I started this thread? My gut is the Mantle has done much much better than Doncic over the past 2.5 years. |
I think Bobby's words are as true now as they were 2 1/2 years ago.
Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
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Looking on Ebay, Fanatics Collect (whatever that is) has the same exact Donci card discussed above as available for sale for $85,000. That is literally 25% of what it was at, with Buyer's premium, in January 2022. Wow, 75% reduction, and that's just asking price. My gut is at auction it sells for even less, which frankly, it should as I dont see why its worth more than $!0k. Meanwhile, the last sale of a PSA 7, 1952 Topps Mantle, and the only 2024 example in VCP, was for $264k, which is the average of two late 2023 sales. While this is way down from a high of $468k in late 2022 (45%), its only down 8% from where it was in January 2022 (with BP) when the thread was started. Bottom line, and I think we all know this: Doncic has completely crashed since early 2022 and, while 1952 Topps Mantle is down since that time, it has held up monumentally better than Doncic. Conclusion -- Mantle over Doncic 100 out of 100 times. As for Morant vs Doncic...... I dont care; I only collect dead baseball players who were played before my grandparents were born |
Aside from the obvious supply and demand explanation, it's simple. The same reason Rocket Lab's stock has been going crazy lately - speculation. While you may think Luka has done "nothing", he won ROTY and has been All-NBA 1st team every year since. The list of people to have done that is very small. Maybe just Duncan? I know LeBron and MJ didn't - they also didn't win a ring until they were 27 so there's a lot of time for Luka to add to his resume.
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Some dude bought a PSA 9 in 2021 for over 5M, and based on what happened to the 8, he'd probably lose millions if he sold today. Another thing we have to look at here is ROI. Even before the pandemic, 99% of us couldn't afford to buy a 52T Mantle. Who had over 100k lying around for a PSA 7? But a Doncic NT or Mahomes NT or Curry NT or LeBron Exquisite RPA, etc. was doable. If you bought any of these modern cards back then for 5k or 10k or even 20k, and you were to sell today, then your ROI is gonna' be much better (compared to buying a PSA 7 Mantle for 120k and selling for double today). |
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What I found surprising was just a staggering amount of dollars being thrown at modern. Whether it was a good investment or not.
(And of course, all of us original old vintage gangsters see modern investments as mostly silly and insane. - let’s all admit we’re extremely biased). But seeing the sheer volume of dollars being spent on a Justin Herbert rookie gave me great hope that there’s tremendous upside in true vintage rarities and iconic cards because historically we just hadn’t seen that kind of dollars being spent on a regular basis until the modern insanity kicked in So please let them continue to love the modern world and spend tens of millions of dollars or maybe hundreds of millions of dollars so that one day when they wise up they can come down to the vintage world and we can all profit handsomely |
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LeBron Topps Chrome rookies have taken a serious hit. They were selling for prices that weren't far off from Jordan for a while. In the last REA auction a 9.5 went for $1,300.
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i'd be very curious to know production #'s of modern crap. Seems like a neverending supply?
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But this is the same market in which I bought a bunch of Leo Messi cards for $20 each and sold them later the same year for $800-$1000 each, so I suppose it worked out alright on balance. |
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I'm not sure about modern print runs. For a product like 2024 Bowman Draft, the retail price was over $500 and that was if you bought directly from Topps.
That's a big price tag. Breakers will buy them up in large quantities compared to individual collectors, but how much product gets printed when it comes with a price tag like that? |
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The point I was trying to make is that if you look at the basketball card market since 2021, it looks like it is tanking, but if you look at it over the last 5 years or longer, prices are way up. Iverson has been out of the league for 15 years. His cards go up or down based on the market demand for NBA stars. To pick a different player, Kobe's prices are similar. His Chrome refractor rookie was $6k in 2019, ran all the way up to $118k, and is now at $18. The reason Doncic cards have gone down is because of the overall market, not because of Doncic specifically. Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk |
Jokic. His numbers, at his age, are unreal.
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Not that there's there's any point either in trying to assign rhyme or reason to the flights of speculative fancy that characterize the card "market". :( |
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;) |
https://goldin.co/item/2018-panini-p...0-psa-gemkqzd3
100k USD for Josh f**king Allen! Zero Super Bowl appearances! |
https://goldin.co/item/2023-panini-s...JkSW5kZXgiOjF9
https://goldin.co/item/2023-24-panin...JkSW5kZXgiOjB9 Crazy ... just crazy ... and only in his second season ... |
For many I think acquiring/investing in cards of contemporary players -- especially basketball -- is part of being a fan.
It's a different inspiration that collecting vintage cards. Buying a card of Doncic, Jokic, or Josh Allen is way of rooting for them and "betting" on their success during the season. Nothing like building a T206 set, or trying to pick up cards of every hall of famer from their careers |
Obviously the guys buying these types of cards have lots of play money and I am guessing most are relatively young. I suspect a good part of it driven by social media and bragging rights.
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Let me first say this mickey mantle is one of the greatest to play the game but I believe the 52t mantle is over valued based on it being a double print and a ton of them in private collection and for sale. Cards of babe ruth even his rookie card dont bring the same money as a 52t mantle in comparable grades and they are a heck of alot rarer than that mantle card.
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People buy Luka rookie cards for the same reason they buy a bitcoin . . . they are convinced past appreciation will guarantee a great investment. No one stares at it and oohs and ahs.
People buy 52 Mantles for all sort of other reasons. Yes, for many an investment, but other factors in play. |
There has been an increase in interest in Luka RC's since the trade (as long as you live outside the DFW area)
Getting traded to LA and hopefully for him learning to get in shape the way LeBron stays in great condition will push his cards up a level or two. And as for modern cards v the old timers. That has been going on for nearly 50 years now. When Mark "The Bird" Fidrych cards came out in 1977 after he became famous you could sell his cards for more than HOFers or guaranteed HOFers of most 1960's cards. Nearly 50 years later people still like to bet on the future which is not guaranteed instead of the more sure shot players. Rich |
Mavericks are garbage. They couldn't surround Luka with the right players and then they trade him for an older player who is always injured ?? :confused:
Hopefully LA can make all the right moves and get him a ring or two. But even still, the amount of money people spent on his cards during the pandemic is staggering and I am not sure if they will ever get it back. |
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