Why
 

I'm not sure why you would, unless I'm missing something. In order to get his site to work, he had to pull the buyer info, right? Maybe I'm missing something, but Bobby doesn't seem to be the problem. That's what I'm going with for now...

Cheers,
Geno

What a mess.

Hes violated his own T&C which hasn't been updated.

"After clicking on a grader/grade combination you get a listing of past sales containing all the crucial information enjoyed by the hobby's biggest collectors and dealers. This information includes: Date, Auction, Image used in auction, Seller, Buyer, Bid Count, Extra info and Price."

Meanwhile the whole freaking page is an ad for PWCC.

They just found a Howie Camnitz Tolstoi t206 that had a pinhole and Moser was actually able to fill in the pinhole to get it graded from a PSA 1 to a PSA 4.5.

And Moser even doctored 1955 Parkhurst midget wrestling cards....getting the one from a PSA 6 to a PSA 8!!

And we’re talking gains of only a couple hundred bucks on these...which is all it is for many..

They have apparently been posting a lot of these findings now onto Facebook groups... it’s seems like it’s just a matter of time now for this thing to really blow up....

It's ironic that Brent, who seems so tech savvy, did not appreciate the potential to get caught with his own tech paper trail.

Depends on where you are, Darren. I do agree that most of it is crap but we have some really good stuff here in L.A., and that's coming from a NYC expat (me) whose favorite food is pizza and who suffered for decades with cruddy pies from schlockmeisters like Straw Hat. Mulberry Street (Beverly Hills, Sherman Oaks, Encino) does a serious NY slice. Crust as thin as Rocky Lee's used to be. Joe's Pizza (Hollywood, Sherman Oaks, DTLA) also has a respectable thin crust (but you need to add oregano to make it really choice). The one thing no one can get right out here is Sicilian, but I can deal with that.

So it happened this morning and he hasn't updated his T&C? I don't know that that's such a crime. Boeing is still advertising deliveries of the 737 Max if you go their website, and that plane killed people. Should that be allowed, or is that against T&C? I don't know if VCP is where the finger should be pointing. Just my two cents...

Cheers,
Geno

Did Bobby just make up the background episode from years ago he provided for context, on the fly? At this point I am inclined to believe him. I suspect Brent pressured one of his ebay contacts.

Thanks John!

More collector grade cards coming up now like a T206 Addie Joss from a
2 to a 4 for about a $140 gain. The SGC A to PSA 5 1951 Bowman Mantle
is incredible.

Sounds plausible, PWCC behind it 100%. Why not reach out directly, seems to be their biggest advertiser? Maybe too obvious?

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That’s not me Bobby, it’s a different Matt Miller. I have no ability to do anything with PSA. That was the point of the picture being taken. It was taken as my name was on it, and a friend was sending it to me.

Calzones > pizza :p

That's not a bad thing anymore. You might be better off Matt.

At the rate this is going.... you’re correct!

I am not on these boards very often as you all know. I have never even heard of Blowout before and the evidence is overwhelming. My question though and I could not find an answer anywhere is why are they going after PWCC and not PSA? Some of these cards are so obviously trimmed it looks like 1/8th of inch was taken off at least. Do the graders at PSA not even bother to measure cards? So why off with PWCC's head and not after PSA for letting so many of these blatantly doctored cards get graded? I don't even see any mention of PSA doing anything wrong...

You didn't look hard enough. There is debate whether it's complicity or incompetence, and some people even want to deflect ALL the blame to PSA, but nobody is giving them a pass as far as I know.

Seems to me all the pitchforks and torches are headed to PWCC

Overt fraud is more interesting than probable negligence.

So they are claiming that PWCC knew that the cards that got graded by PSA were in fact tainted? Seems like a stretch..

Sorry if it has been covered just trying to wrap my head around the whole thing.

It's been covered ad nauseum, and it's not a stretch at all given what's been uncovered, there's no shortcut for reading it.

The bottom line is people have too much money tied up in their PSA graded cards. They don't want to see PSA become another GAI, which could happen before all this is over. It's easier to deflect it to PWCC. I hope PSA falls big time and its reflected in the value of their cards.

Billy Martin, July 24, 1978, speaking about George and Reggie:

"One's a born liar, the other's convicted"

As relevant today as it was then??

It's a lot to digest Bobby, I know. I am seeing the same thing. The detectives over there are uncovering MASSIVE amounts of cards that have been doctored. To the degree that I am totally dumbfounded and sickened at the amount of deception that one person in particular has bestowed upon us.

Cliffnotes version: Card doctor buys cards from PWCC, doctors them, PWCC submits them for him raw, then sells them in higher slabs. Over and over and over again, and they're just starting over there.

Brent is also the one putting his foot in his mouth repeatedly both by trying to redefine "conservation" vs. "alteration" and doing that ill-advised hourlong interview to explain just how much he's working to out all the fraud, and will never work with card doctors "again." Except the cards are still for sale in PWCC auctions.

Have you seen my new signature block on both sites? PSA deserves a bunch of the blame, but PWCC is trying to be a mouthpiece for the industry and we are the ones that "have to mature." All the while, a million dollars of fraud is going through his auctions almost exclusively. I haven't seen a statement from him/Betsy in days, and haven't received a response to my email to Steve Sloan or Betsy in two weeks.

All that, and one of the main BODA guys is promising fireworks coming up. My bet's on the 1993 SP Derek Jeters that have sold recently for $100K through PWCC and disappeared off of their website during their website glitch. Although it looks like maybe another fraudster has been uncovered.

Your website losing critical functionality at this point in the online investigation just looks "hinky," as Velma would say. Who else would have the pull to get eBay to censor you except for a dealer like PWCC?

I have asked multiple times for proof of this, but my requests have gone ignored. If it's been posted, then I simply overlooked it so please re-post.

I have not seen it either. Brent does admit that he has submitted cards for clients, but has never said who those clients were. Maybe his lawyer finally told him to zip it.
https://i.imgflip.com/23by70.jpg

David I know they concluded that, and I do recall he admitted subbing the DiMaggio card, but I can't recall all the steps in their reasoning. But he clearly knew what this individual did to cards, I can attest to that myself from conversations.

+1 They have been a joke since the beginning.

If SGC could just get off their lazy asses and actually do something this could be a huge opportunity for them.

They never have really taken on PSA, in their marketing have they?

It was a joke...I know...hard to tell on the internet. My apologies.

I love SGC and use them for any PC card I am getting graded. That said it is like they want to fail. Everything but their quality of grading absolutely sucks.

They don't need to take on PSA, they just need to not suck at everything but grading. They have an unbelievable opportunity now that I hope they don't piss away. Maybe they hate money.:confused:

Patrick.....that is horrible....the really sad thing about all this?? No one knows HOW DEEP this chasm actually is!!! These cards being exposed might only be the tip of the iceberg!!

There were some auctions by PWCC that stated that the cards he was selling came from a raw collection that PWCC was selling (graded) and they were Moser trim jobs. I believe that is where that assumption came from initially. Also the fact that Brent has never denied doing so (that I have seen) also tends to indicate it probably occurred.

These were such pathetic and obvious attempts to stick up for PWCC. No one’s giving PSA a pass. Your boy Brent could be in deep doo-doo, regardless of PSA.

I have absolutely no affinity for PWCC. Absolutely despise the deception and what they are doing.

But I also feel that PSA is the bigger evil here. Their cancer is further-reaching and infinitely more pervasive. Once those tainted cards are slabbed in PSA Holders, they can be sold ANYWHERE. The hobby is now infected, much like an HIV virus... you can’t even begin to keep track of where all the bad cards will end up after being re-sold, traded, consigned, or passed down to next of kin.

Hopefully both parties will go the way of Mastro, Legendary and Rogers with this scandal. And I do agree with those who have stated that PWCC is getting the brunt of the anger on a disproportionate basis. There are far more people with a vested interest in PSA than with PWCC. Unfortunately it’s just human nature to protect one’s “assets”.

Unlike forum boards were ads are basically 100% of their revenue. VCP main income comes from our membership not from advertisers. Advertising makes up less than 7% of our revenue. Our main interest has always been members first and only. I have from day one since starting VCP tried my best to be as neutral as humanly possible. I sold all of my collection so that there would be no reason for me to have any thing to gain by doing what we do. I have been contacted many times trying to get me to remove certain sales data from the website for people that I flat out denied. I have run VCP with integrity and honesty from the start. I am not a person to beat around the bush and I am not a person that is a bull shitter or liar. I pretty much say what is on my mind and straight to the point. This might hit a nerve with some people but that is just who I am. I don't like to be ripped off and I don't like seeing people in this hobby getting ripped off as well.

Then a good start to prove that will be to read the overwhelming evidence provided by Blowout and stop taking PWCC advertising dollars. The road to ripoffs appears to be traveling directly through there.

There is no cliff notes version of this. It's extensive, some of it is complicated, portions of it are speculative but there's often good reason for that speculation, a lot of it is still "circumstantial" because OBVIOUSLY no one is going to directly admit to trimming cards on a message board. However, the pictures speak for themselves. There are HUNDREDS of them, across all sports and non-sports, vintage and modern.

Using the the slab numbers of those that are pretty clearly trimmed, leads to other slabs numbered close to those, which at least at some level casts some doubt over those other cards. Not conclusive, maybe not even circumstantial, but certainly questionable.

There is also extensive work done that indicates specific buyers of certain cards, particularly from prior PWCC auctions, that then came back into later PWCC auctions with higher grades and updated flowery descriptions. Since we don't know who the consigners were, and OBVIOUSLY PWCC isn't going to tell us that, it's still circumstantial at best. The SPECULATION is that possibly those cards were busted out of the cases, sent back raw to PWCC to be submitted to PSA for grading, and then coming back in the new better cases and FREQUENTLY given the PQ/HE stickers.

PWCC appears to admit knowing who some of these people are, and admitting to having done business with them in the past in their tenets thread. PWCC in their video said "pictures are not evidence", which is just a silly thing to say, especially considering earlier on in March-May PWCC had taken down some auctions when they were identified as trimmed USING PICTURES. They've also said they don't know who the consignors are when the stickers are given out, but that just doesn't ring true and has been refuted by at least one consignor.

If you prefer to play lawyer, then I guess there's some scenario that can be created where PWCC didn't know anything and is really a victim here. Maybe there's a scenario where PSA/BGS didn't really know these people either. However, the volume that's been discovered thus far is pretty overwhelming, and it's not a huge leap of logic to believe there is very likely much more out there to be discovered.

I suspect it will take some legal authorities to get involved to accelerate the discovery and get to the funds flow, but based on what has been found thus far it's not hard to imagine there's a lot more interaction between the TPGs, PWCC and the bad actors than anyone is currently letting on. Give it time.

This is NOT going away. Go read just some of those threads and try to convince yourself that these "investigators" sound like they're just planning to drop all this at some point. Not gonna happen.

It is unfair to demand a man relinquish 7% of his
business’ income just because the advertiser is
under some public scrutiny. That is unless you plan
on taking out that ad space in replacement.

Posting on this for the first time, and appreciate all the undercover work over on BO, plus having the folks here link to (and consequently introduce me to) BO. Like all who love this hobby, I'm sickened. What I cannot understand is how people cannot see cards that do not fit into the holder, especially modern cards.

Having said that, and in advance I want to commend corndog on BO on the time and effort he and others are putting into this. I have, however, to question this Gehrig card:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109

While there are many, many similarities between the two items pictured, I wonder how the white print dots appear on the "conserved" card, at the right top of his forehead, plus on the brim of the cap. Further, there appears to be a nick in the top of the card just left of center. These types of things would not be the types of things that a card doctor would add.

Not trying to defend anyone involved in this scam, but treat this as I need help understanding.

The other part that really has me fearful of the breadth and depth of this fraud is the Parkhurst wresting card. I mean, if those cards are being doctored, there is no limit to the amount of potential fraud.

Bob

Advertisement as a whole not just one client...we have many SCL, PSA, Lelands, PWCC, Just Rip It, R & R, etc...all those combined make up 7%

Let's start with honoring their guaranty, more to follow on that note

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It could be from the scanner and not on the card. The appear to be the same card given the identified and other characteristics of the card. The edge imperfections even match.

What I need clarity on is the wrestling card on this link:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2109 How is it that after the trimming along the right side of the card is completed the card fits more tightly in the holder? Aren't PSA holders one size for standard card issues, ie. every Topps 1966 card is placed in the same type of holder with similar interior dimensions? If that's not the case and PSA uses different sized holders for the same issue then wouldn't PSA immediately know the card is smaller than others of the same issue? Something stinks.

One man’s public scrutiny is another man’s complicit fraud.

PSA has a variety of sizes of the slabs, and they have a number visible in the bottom right left corner (numbers in reverse). This one I just got back says ".1T" My guess is that they "right size" to the best fitting holder per card. I even had an oversize 1952 Topps baseball card returned to me in a tallboy holder because it wouldn't fit in a normal slab.
https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net...80&oe=5D541477

You've also heard people complain before about their cards getting mylar bag treatment for some, and not for others in the same submission. Also due to differences in size within the same set.

I certainly have doubts about individual cards, but there are 100's that leave no doubt, so not losing too much sleep over a few that are doubtful.

The Blowout guys are saying that your site's PWCC card back scans have also been deleted, however back scans from other sellers are still visible. Is this true? Is this another poorly timed glitch or were you asked by eBay or PWCC to remove those images?
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...290614&page=87

Now you see why everything looks like a conspiracy?