I am wary of any eBay seller who doesn't at least take the time and effort to crop out their bare feet in the pics :eek:.

Send seller a question asking if the auction includes everything shown in the pictures

Lol

I pulled all of the green sheet errors, including 3 Speiers and multiple Liebrandts, when I first discovered them in 2016. It was in a lot of 4 boxes and I had several Sammy Sosas that were all normal. Additionally, the Lance Johnson's were normal as well.

I believe the green sheet errors are significant because they occupy nearly the exact same locations on the uncut sheet as the orange sheet errors associated with the NNOF, and the blackless areas, although shaped differently, are sloped in a similar direction on the sheet.

Here they are with the sheets aligned:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

If you look at the sheets as they would be fed through the presses, the Speier error is in the same location as the Tapani. Meadows error lines up with Lawton, Alomar=Darrin Jackson and Leibrandt=Franco.

The existence of the Lance Johnson error is an outlier but it has not been found in the same packs as the Speier/Ford/Leibrandt errors so I can't come to a conclusion either way on that. The Ford and Carmelo Martinez errors occupy the locations of the Robin Ventura and the Bob Knepper so those two do not exactly align with the orange sheet but since the general shape is the same, that could have been a simple variation in how the negatives were placed in the plate exposing machine. I'd say there's a decent change they are related but it's nothing you could prove.

I'm also not optimistic PSA would recognize the errors at this time. They haven't done it for the numerous other partial blackless errors from the 1980's Topps sets so I can't see them make an exception unless someone was able to prove it was related to the NNOF errors, which is probably impossible. Also, I have a 1990 Topps Roger Clemens blackless that is missing half is name. A near miss HOFer from the steroid era, with the exact same printing plate flaw that caused the NNOF but they only authenticated it as a normal card, PSA 6.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

Good info. Thank you, West.

Don't forget about the red-less orange sheet cards. The missing red ink may have only affected one sheet and was likely pulled from the dumpster when you consider the condition of each one that has turned up (I own the Thomas and Wade Boggs AS). The pattern of missing ink is very similar to the sort of haphazard, diagonal swaths of the blackless cards.

Please post a pic of the Boggs AS.

The first one I encountered turned up on ebay way back when I was feverishly monitoring unlisted junk wax error cards (maybe 2004-2005ish) and it was another All-Star player in poor shape but I don't recall which one. If it were a star, I'd probably have remembered.

https://i.ibb.co/ZSFHZsp/90tredless.jpg

That's a neat error - provided it isn't the result of weather damage/sun bleaching - I wonder how they made it out of the factory? Have you ever seen more than one copy of an individual card?
Really does look like it was salvaged from a dumpster! And the error areas do resemble the blackless errors somewhat.

I am certain that it is not a sun damaged card due to the fact that the blue and yellow inks are entirely unchanged. Both colors remain vibrant while the red is missing or nearly missing in some spots.

To date, I have recorded just three total cards with the swaths of missing red ink, all orange sheet cards, all with damage. There could easily have been some that escaped me but I have only searched for them intermittently over the years.

Anybody got iron-clad proof of these coming out of packs?

Or just more highly doubtful stories?

The blackless cards and NNOF? There are dozens of first hand accounts of these coming out of packs on the internet. Not to mention a few Youtube and Facebook Live videos. If you don't believe this, what is your alternative theory and what is it based on?

In the "old days" (well before the tsunami of covid flipper-collectors), these folks used to pop out every so often with this question, seeding this "just curious" doubt around boards and shows and almost always, they'd eventually reveal that they are sitting on factory sets and/or pushing that they come from factory sets.

Same would apply to the George Bush cards.

Yeah, the NNOF card has long attracted scammers due to it being a relative standout value wise among 1985-1992 produced cards.

However, I don't think Lowpopper is fishing for anything here. They started this thread and seem genuinely curious at getting at the facts. I'm just wondering why Lowpopper is still wondering at the truth when there are pages and pages of research here all pointing to a mostly wax distribution for these errors. And 3 seconds of search engine work away are two Youtube videos of Brian pulling a Fisk and Russell partial blackless from Joe Schembri's PSA wax packs.

I just don't see how this is still a legitimate question at this stage in the research. Which makes me sad to see it still asked when I do love the thrust of the original thread.

Yeah, it is baffling to me, this whole pattern of "if I didnt see it, it isn't real." I have really only encountered it within the last two years, cardboard-wise.

Not sure if Lowpopper is the same guy who pops onto the Facebook group discussions for this card and always make the same-but-vague allegation but I've seen it few times recently.

A wise blind man one told me:

believe half of what you see, none of what you hear

This has been a very productive thread, and I will continue to contribute, but I won't be responding to your posts anymore.

Kaboom!

That's not fair. You should checkout his raffle thread or his thread that he got a rookie Mantle stolen. Maybe your opinion of him will change.:D

Ha, it's all good. This has been one of the most informative NNOF threads. Happy to continue to add to it in productive ways.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from.

I start off being highly suspicious of this card's origins solely due to the
George Bush Sr. card. Those came from the same geographical location
as the NNOF allegedly did. Off the bat, I'm skeptical. No serious trail of
boxes/cases has ever been sniffed out. How has nobody has ever traced
back to a solid source when they pulled this from a pack in the early 90s?
Nobody went back for more all after they pulled the first one?

Something of this magnitude would have been sniffed out given the attention
it got. It seems far too coincidental that a big find has never been unearthed.
If 100 Bush cards can walk out the back door, a similar number printer's
scrap sheets with Thomas's name missing could do the same.

Now I could be completely wrong, and it's likely these cards were just a fluke
staccato in the printing timeline. I suspect these were at least partially
supplemented by a group of cards exiting the factory not via packs.

When I do make an organic find, I'll fully retract my skepticism. I live in New
York 5 minutes from the Bush Sr. find. I see way more packs, boxes, cases
than your average bear out here. If these were pack delivered, they will be
pack found...by me :cool:

Happy Collecting!

My comments in blue

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125747663053

amazing how valuable this card has become, even in low grade condition

amazing how valuable this card has become, even in low grade condition[/QUOTE]



How in heck is that a 3??

Looks like a crease to the left of Frank's head. Other than that great eye appeal.