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And if you truly believe it's criminal, report Brent to eBay, law enforcement or whoever you need to in order to stop this criminal activity. You need to go back and re-read post #85. John nailed it on the head with his post. |
I thought I read with an earlier post in this thread that Brent with PWCC was going to chime in on this?
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Just a thought, but there are some in the camp of 'buy the card, not the holder'
However there is also a camp of 'buy the holder, not the card' Thus, if its a legit PSA 7, wouldnt you agree that if somone was buying the holder, they care getting what they paid for? People do sell the holder not the card which I have posted many times. Again, I made an earlier post about if there was a wrinkle that was pressed out and could come back again, I would think its dishonest for that not to be in the description. Thus, not saying i agree with what transpired with the card in this thread. I am just saying that i believe there are people out there that just buy the holder. I know Peter will then say 'if it doesnt matter, why did the seller not disclose it' Well, i think to make everything uniform and you are in the business of selling holders, you wont go though the history of grading of a card with every card which would save a lot of time and headaches. If you miss some important history on one card for example, then you have to worry about a return, but if its just buyer beware on all cards and up to due dilligence of the buyer that makes it much easier for the seller. Buyers who do their due dilligence wont pay as much for certain cards etc. Most sellers sell the holder and not the card. Thats why most ebay listings say 'no returns on graded cards'. Now if this was a RAW card that was fixed up, then I submit any repair history MUST be disclosed. |
Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? Hell, the seller could just show an image of the flip. Trimmed, recolored, pressed, bleached, soaked, who cares, irrelevant, all trumped by the flip.
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Nothing to "FLIP" about ......... just ten of thousands of dollars lol .
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Jake made a very good point. The buyer probably really didn't care what the card looked like as long as the flip said PSA 7. |
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This started because of your sarcastic comment, "Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really?" Yet, you do the same thing with your WTBs. Maybe you don't see the hypocrisy in that. I'm pretty sure others do though. |
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The bottom line is this. PSA said it was a 7...twice now. I think most of us agree (and I've already said it too) it doesn't look like a 7. To most of us, it looks over graded. The PSA apologists can't blame this one on a "mechanical error". So what do you want to happen at this point? PSA is not going to change the grade. What good is b!tching about it doing? Let me ask again, what do you want to happen at this point???
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It can easily be about the cards, but for the presentation. There are plenty of people on here that like SGC because of the way their card looks in the holder, regardless of what the "flip" says the grade is. Additionally, the grading standards are different. Requesting a grading company and a grade when looking to buy something is just as important as conveying an accurate description in a want to sell ad. "High grade" is subjective. PSA 7.5 is way less subjective. It happens to be the easiest way to put a range on what you are looking for with respect to quality. Would you prefer that everyone type out: I want a card with no less than 40/60 centering left to right, 80/20 top to bottom, clean registration, medium white boarders, no paper loss, somewhat centered on the back, good registration, strong corners? What constitutes a strong corner, how can you explain the difference between a 6 corner and a 7 corner to someone in a buy thread? I bet if you look at a 6 and a 7 you know what it looks like though, right? You can say all of that with just a simple "PSA 7.5" |
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May your collecting bring you immense joy, Larry |
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Highest regards, Larry |
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Best wishes, Larry |
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Best to all, Larry |
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Nice mood lightener, Larry |
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Who even cares what the card looks like? If PSA says it's a 7, then what difference does it make really? |
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You really don't care what the card looks like? That seems silly to me. I care what my cards look like. If I was in the market for this card and I saw a centered 6/6.5, I would buy it over this card. |
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The "market" seems to be correcting itself regarding buying the card not the holder...some lower graded cards...especially if nicely centered are selling for more than their higher graded counterpart...even in PSA holders. Does PSA suck...YES! Do some people buy the holder not the card...yes...but I think most are atleast looking at the cards and making decisions that they can live with. |
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Honestly, half of what was said is moronic. No offense. |
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yes post #85 sums it up! someone get Kevin the cliff notes!
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Are you guys seriously still crying about this card?
The auction is over. It got about $7500 less than I expected, maybe this thread had something to do with it. Yes I flip cards, is there anything wrong with that? I read some posts that are attempting to knock me because of this. I do what I do, and you guys can worship your beat up t206 Walter Johnson's. Guys, really there is a lot more to life than whining about what grade a card should be or whether washing a card should not allow to get a numerical grade. |
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I think it only matters in this circumstance due to PWCC's return policy: "We at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC." it also matters because if the card shows no signs of chemical cleaning and we are only going on assumption of wrongdoing it does not meet a burden of proof in my mind to start a coup. If you have insider knowledge of what took place could you reveal without sources the method you were told cleaned this card or if you were just told it was cleaned in an untoward way? If proof exists that is concrete and physical that other than natural items were used, than I think it would weigh my opinion heavily. I have an opinion of how this was done in my mind also, but I do not have proof of it and it would be impossible to prove unless the person who did it admitted fully. I am also in a quandary as to if I feel it is wrong as it is a common practice in other hobbies and does not involve direct contact with any chemical. |
John,
For debate and opinion several have been defending the card in this thread as there is a great value to proof over innuendo. I do tend to side in some ways to cleaning that does not damage or change the card structurally. I also felt for you being saddled unknowingly with an albatross in this card as I believe you did not know the issues involved at purchase and was genuinely pleased you were able to move on. I am sorry you became the poster boy for this and I understand you are feeling personally attacked. ...but your replies are making it difficult. |
Thanks Justin.
You are correct, this thread has frustrated me. I'm not attacking everyone, just about 4 people. |
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