Fake Packs
 

Hi,

I am new to this forum but not new to this issue at all. I was recently made aware of the allegations (very confusing) surrounding the dealer and have some insight to add. As I am (or was) an avid collector of unopened material with stars showing, I have dealt with Jose one time in the past. You can see my pack collection at http://thehistorykids.net/packs

Anyhow, a couple of things:
1.) The very same people the guy is throwing under the bus now vigorously defended him when I brought up suspicion about him in a different forum in 2011.
2.) He is presenting himself as some kind of crusader for the integrity of this sub-hobby. Kool-aid anyone?
3.) Below is what I brought up on the other forum and his response back in 2011.

Monday December 19, 2011 4:00 PM

Thanks everyone for welcoming into the forum. A couple of people have asked about my experiences with the ebay dealer E******, and although I have no intention of disparaging anyone or any dealer here on this forum, I will relay one experience I had with him which led me to leave him negative feedback on ebay:

A couple of years ago, he auctioned off a 1983 fleer rack pack that had Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn showing on the front. I won the auction, paid him immediately and thought he would send the rack promptly. Two or so days later, he refunded my money and reported to ebay that the pack was damaged in handling. In thinking to myself how someone could have damaged a 1983 fleer pack when packaging it up, I came to the conclusion that he didn't want ME to buy it. This particular dealer subsequently banned me from all of his auctions. My guess is that he knew I could tell a fake pack from a real pack and he was hesitant in sending me the fake. I left him negative feedback. Confirming my suspicions, after the 90 day period where I could no longer submit any formal complaints, and at the time, when images would be deleted from ebay's database, the very same rack pack came up for auction from him again. So, it really wasn't damaged in "handling," he was hesitant to sell it to me. This combined with his seemingly endless supply of unbelievable unopened material including star racks and cellos from every year imaginable has led me to believe he sells inauthentic stuff.

This is only my opinion based on my limited experiences with him. I have never actually received unopened material from him. It is very likely he sells legitimate stuff as well, I guess. I will remove the line on my page that mentions him, as I never intended this topic to be brought up here.

Pepis e-mail to me:

Hello Greg,
when i went to get the pack out of the cabinet
in my office, it was gone! stolen! probably
by some youg kid friend of the family i think,
i hoping to get it back, but is taking me some time
to investigate, so, for now i have to give you
a refund on it, i have a very similar pack listed
right now (Gwynn/Sandberg graded 9.5 also)
item # 250172307764
if you by chance happen to like it, i would be
happy to exchange it, i apologize for the
inconvenience, although the loser here is me.
Jose

4.) The guy's (the pepis guy) response in the forum when I called him out

Unfortunately, this has been a feud that has gone on for four years. I have posted the original email below showing in detail how your recount of the story is incorrect. The pack was stolen by my sons friend. I am an honest, truthful man. I have a reputation on e-bay and well before the internet was invented of dealing honestly and being a straight shooter. I have been in the card business for over 40 years. You can ask any of my customers how much I am respected in the industry. I would appreciate if in the future you stick to the truth, so I don't have to present information to prove my credibility against your erroneous accusations. I am sorry that you have not gotten over a situation 4 years old, that was out of my control. Even though, as a man who respects customer service, I tried to make amends when the incident happened. You called me a liar then, which was incorrect, and now you post lies about me on a forum. That is not what a man does.

Hi,

I don't want to be a referee in this dispute, but please make your personal information public. Thanks.

Dan

He I did. Rules are rules. This one is even at the top of every page on the forum.

So can I sell my packs now? (LOL)

The only thing missing from this thread so far is him:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps49f475fc.jpg

Thanks Leon, keep up the outstanding work!

That has been addressed in post # 57 and again in post # 172 all it takes is for you to pay attention to what you read there is a lot of information in here on the matter, and a lot more is coming all intelligent people need to do is pay attention to what you read
and ignore the PSA groupies that are trying to disrupt things, i'm an intelligent well educated man, and will respond to educated
constructive questions only, confrontational and apparently ignorant people that can seem to understand what they read and only
find false valor behind a key board will be ignore.
as for you DavidG1966 or MrSnuffleupagus at the CU you Know you have many bad packs and despite what you preach
you know you are going to sell them to innocent people instead of claiming the PSA guarantee.

Jose
 

Jose - If?

When someone keeps telling me how honest they are I reach in my pocket to make sure my wallet is still there.

Your puny, futile, misspelled, and unmanly response does not hide what you really are. Key words from above "..that graded". So the ones that didn't grade , you sold.:mad: Thanks for your honesty and admission of guilt. I will now exit this thread.

I don't understand how Jose thinks he is a hero in this....

Rick,,,i'm not here to tell anybody anything about my honesty, i'm here to tell that every counterfeiter of star packs on ebay is getting away
with it because the psa authenticator doesn't have the knowledge to identify those fake packs even know the signs are very clear of being fakes or altered packs, they are getting authenticated and over half of the star packs in the population report are fake and i can prove it given
the chance to do so, all you need to know is the manufacture pattern, is actually pretty simple and it should be common knowledge, i showed the FBI and they got it.

While this makes great reality TV-like entertainment, I have to say what the heck does 1977 Topps cello packs and 1983 Fleer have to do with Pre-War? Pre-Desert Storm? This is exactly why I collect the old stuff - too many weird-o's mess with the shiny stuff.

If there is such an easy solution to figuring out what is a fake "star pack" or what ever the you call these things, why not post the key on the post-war side and go away or start talking about 1933 Goudey unopened packs.

I don't think we can infer from Jose's statement that he still has all the bad packs he graded that he sold other bad packs that didn't grade. That's like interpreting the statement, I have never sold a trimmed card, to be an admission that I sold bleached cards, it's not logical. At least give him the opportunity to answer the question.

Just curious how a "well educated" man can have so many misspellings, and grammatical flubs? Reading Jose's posts gives me a headache.

In my experience, when a person purports to be "well educated" on the internet, they are just the opposite.

I'm not quite sure you can infer anything from his posts frankly.

Here are the posts that you are referencing: (corrected the spelling mistakes)

How about the packs you never had graded?

or

How about the packs that you were "indirectly" involved with? (whatever that means)

Agreed Jeff, this is one of the few reasons why I said what I said.

Incoherence combined with the oblivion to a normal ethical understanding --- atll the while seemingly trying to implore people to see that you are some sort of perspicacious hero in all of this is ridiculous.

An intellectually inferior version of Frank Abagnale Jr. for the hobby...

I've thought the same thing.

Also, which packs were "grated":rolleyes:

This is not my thread, i do understand and think it probably should be in
the post war side, but Leon has kept it here which may be a good thing
this thread is getting a lot of attention on Google and Yahoo and i think
that's a good thing

It was decided, when this thread first went up, to allow it to stay here because of it's importance. In that respect nothing has changed.

Jose, you never sold me a fake pack?

No i didn't Nathan, but more fake packs got by Steve recently, and since you
are a Cincnnatii red fun be careful there is a few Johnny Bench 78 & 79 cellos in PSA holders floating arround and Bench never came in the top section in
those years, and yes i can be easily proven! in fact a few of the CU members already did the research with the info i provided and know the truth but they don't have the guts
to admitted meanwhile honest collectors like the one in the picture keep getting screwed.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps38562f23.png

isn't the big question here... Have you ever RELEASED (sold/gave away/traded) ANY fake packs into the hobby?

I do agree with Jose on one point ---- SO many people have figured out how to reseal cello and rack packs that it is more like that can simply manufacture them the same way topps did. It's not worth collecting them really. Good counterfeiters can make their work completely undetectable and no one, including PSA has any clue if they are real or not. There are even sellers that are coming up with their own custom-made rack pack wrappers (see the guy who is making rack packs to "hold" 1979-80 OPC Hockey Cards on ebay). He is not trying to sell them as authentic, but he has made them himself with header cards, plastic wrap or shrink warp so that someone without knowledge would think they are 100% real.

Not trying to stir the pot but was more or less looking for others thoughts on this issue:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=890762