Sorry, meant the Giants. Haven’t checked on the Oilers pennant.

The Oilers sold in 11 minutes to JR.

Rick

Ahhh...11 minutes? He must've been asleep at the switch. I've seen him strike faster than that. :)

About the blue Oilers, it does look dark. It's always hard for me to tell how different these things are sometimes based on picture quality.

How do you see who the buyer was on these items? (I know there is someway to at least look at the feedback number).

I tried to contact JR through ebay. We'll see what happens. If it was Erik who sold it, I feel kind of bad because I would have paid him more.

Great memory, Rob. Yeah, that's correct. It sold very quickly which made me wonder if I priced it too low! :) Egner purchased it (hope that's okay to mention). I go back and forth about auctions vs. buy-it-now. I rarely ask this group if interested - it's a good reminder to do so.

I was very fortunate to get these two a few years back. There is a weird glare on the Texans one but it’s mint with no staining or holes. I’ve thought about going after this ‘set’ but I keep getting distracted!

I saw the same Bills pennant with no logo on it...does that suggest 60-62ish?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2ea2ad4702.jpg

Beautiful Erik!

I think Erik needs to make a Google photos page.

Haha - I am happy to, but my collection is small and less impressive than many here. I have a handful of nice pieces, but nothing like the quality I’ve seen by the ‘usual suspects’. However, I’ll get these put together. I’ve been meaning to document anyway - a little motivation never hurts.

Co-signed!

Hey Greg- I know you said you might want to start collecting/displaying mini-pennants. I found this one for you with a really nice spine.

My life's greatest achievement? :cool:

Yikes!

Must've been the very end of the roll!

Picked this up from JR. It is in unbelievable condition (save for the "bite" in the A) and that has me a little concerned. The colors are super bright and it doesn't have that old smell. JR dated it to the 1930's and I have no idea. It measures 8.5" x 26". What do you guys think? Have you seen this one or any similar?

I've always thought JR to be an honest seller. Hell, he didn't even remove the dog hair that showed on the A in his ebay listing. :p Even if you guys say it's no good, I'm not going to raise a fuss. I think JR represented it to the best of his ability and, besides, I'm having a hard time finding any new for me Giants pennants lately.

I thought I had never seen the Giants pennant that Erik sold and Bocca posted. Well, scrolling thru my saved pennant pictures, I see I have three previously saved images of it. Guess I had seen it, after all. :p

Good to know that there are some others out there.

I like the look of that stitched Giants pennant, even if it is not old.

Been there done that. :)

You posted the link to your Giants photo album didn't you? Can you share again? I'd like to take another look at it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/VTWwsCGCUcnhRKy28

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5w4MyAqWtyAqb8JU7

I need the "heavy hitters" (you know who you are) to weigh in.

You and I, Marc, are not quite in that category. :p

I have no idea of era and feel is best indicator but I think it is vintage. I have some very old pennants with that same unique stitching at the very top and bottom of the spine (which doesn’t permit a dowel). I’ll see if I can find an example. .... Didn’t we see a series of very old pennants like this with city names? Perhaps because of two NY teams the nickname was used.

I also had a Seals pennant that turned out to be not vintage that had the same type of spine (no way to slide in a stick) and stitched letters. I forget the name of the company that made it, but Seattlerainers helped me figure it out.

Yeah, those auctioned recently. I’ll backtrack thru this thread. One somewhat comforting thing is that my pennant does have pinholes at the corners.

Some good news, and some bad (to a far lesser extent...)

I completely agree with Greg that "feel" is the best indicator. But (without having it in-hand) I like the look and grain of the felt, as much as the pics can portray. Everything else about it also looks vintage and correct.

The Pin holes are a good sign, as are the little moth bites in the "A". Moths are not too hot on polyester blends, last I checked. :rolleyes:

So with that said... what era is it from? Those previously discussed generic embroidered types from the Teens were all full-sized and had 2-color tassels. Plus, they had the City Name, rather than a team name. This Giants pennant is 3/4 size, and looks much more like it's from the very late 1940s - mid 1950s.

The Giants switched from a Blue/Red color scheme to Black/Orange in 1947. Based on all of this, I feel strongly that it's an early - mid '50s NY Giants pennant.

Hope this helps!

That does help! It is made of super soft felt. I noticed the tassels seem longer than usual....

We did and I just wasted one and a half hours of my life (that I’ll never get back), trying to find a fairly recent AH listing of maybe 8 of them. I’m thinking the auction was within the last year. I think the lot of 8 went for around $500, which may have been the opening bid. Does anyone remember whose auction that was?

I did find a couple of posts in this thread (page 60ish) where someone posted an original newspaper ad to those “city” pennants. Unlike mine, those had two different color tassels and the lettering was kind of 3-D. I’d still like to find that damn auction, though, so I can compare them to mine! :mad:

I'm no heavy hitter, but I completely agree with Mark: it's likely from the late 1940s or 50s. These 26" long pennants were super, super common during that time frame. They seem to have become less popular by the 1960s.

Boom! See: https://memorylaneinc.com/site/bids/...e?itemid=53212

Definitely not from the same series..... Those promo baseball pennants measured 10" x 30" and had a "Detroit Free Press" label on the reverse.

Thank you! Definitely not close but at least now I can get on with my life. :D

The price was higher than I remembered. $177 ea.

No heavy hitter? Are you kidding? You’re like a fully roided Barry Bonds playing in Coors Field! (Sorry Marc and Rob) ... your research is amazing and has greatly added to the enjoyment of my hobby.

I miss those days :cool:

Did we ever determine whether that same newspaper (or another newspaper) ever released a similar pennant series for National League teams around the year 1913? I can't say I've ever seen a "BROOKLYN" pennant that was 10" x 30," had 3-D sewn letters, and multi-colored tassels before.

I'm thinking probably not, as Detroit was solely an American League city; and the Detroit Free Press likely didn't cover the National League teams too much in those days.

But who's to say another newspaper from a National League city wouldn't have tried the same promo using NL teams?

I think something probably would have turned up at some point. I have never seen the NL versions of those specific pennants (with the 2-color tassels and the 3D style embroidered lettering). I would surmise that there was never a National League version of those.... but you never know!

I agree with Kyle being a heavy hitter. But rather than a roided-up Bonds, I think he's more of a Rod Carew. Methodical, well-studied, patient, and uses his research to deliver the blow. Carew was a "hitting scientist" who put in the hard work, rather than taking illegal shortcuts as a path to success.

So I would say Kyle is the Rod Carew (or perhaps the Tony Gwynn) of this Forum. Greg is the Babe Ruth, and Baseball Rob is the Willie Mays. That guy who started the angry vindictive Glove Repair thread can be the Barry Bonds (roid-rage and all).

Not sure what this is but interesting that it's embroidered and has multicolored tassels. Seller claims from 1900s but offers no provenance to support that.

Hey, now! Don't believe the hype!

If it was I who started calling them "3-D letters", I don't think that is accurate. "3-D" would be a border on on the left or right and top or bottom as if you were viewing from either side from above or below. Those "city name" pennants have fully outlined borders. Yes?

I used to get in trouble with security for wearing my "Pitch To Barry" shirt to Dodger Stadium.

Well thank you, but in the broader baseball memorabilia world I’d be more like a Rob Deer. One dimensional!

Oh man ... I AM ROD CAREW..... :eek:

Very well then, I pledge to only use my research for the good of our hobby.

Big thanks to Fballguy for the opportunity to add these Tiger pennants to my collection.

Awesome. You're welcome! Really glad they made it to you. The USPS has been an adventure lately. That was relatively quick considering.

This is the most pristine white Giants pennant I've ever been able to buy. It's in really nice shape. My picture doesn't do it justice. It's not felt... more like a very stiff cloth material. Like cloth soaked in paint. Thanks to Greg for pointing it out to me.

Great acquisitions, Stephen and Marc!!

Marc and I have had discussions about the 1969-197? ASCO set. You may recall I have an unhealthy obsession with trying to complete the 1969 set in cloth, with the distinct fat MLB mark. This is no doubt the same company. I need a few teams still ... I have them in felt not cloth ... but I have never seen the ‘69 cloth ASCO Giants. It likely looks like this one, I wonder if it is multicolor. The felt versions are all black on orange.

Well. boys, it's a momentous day here in the "Hey, pennant guys" thread because I have figured out how you Heavy Hitters can frame your oversized pennants. If you look in the "September pickups" thread. you'll see my latest, low end acquisition. It measured 22 x 28, so I bought a cheap ($12) 24 x 36 poster frame and cut it down (I do this with both plastic and wood frames).

With the leftover plexi, I framed a small NYG pennant. You could do the same with oversized pennants. The only tools you need are shown in the photo (those and a straight edge). You could get one frame out of a 24 x 36 frame or two out of a 27 x 40. Unfortunately, you would not have enough "edging" for the two but, with a steady hand, wrapping the edges with black electrical tape wouldn't look terrible....at least not to a "low end" guy like me.

I really hope someone (Greg?) tries this and posts the results!

That’s awesome!!! You used a utility knife to cut the plastic and it cut easy without chipping? Great work. I have been doing this with 20 and even 40 gauge vinyl rolls. I made 5 holders from a rolls that cost $40 which was almost half shipping. This looks fantastic.

And I should add that it’s an awesome pennant, too!

I am definitely going to try this, Rob ... here is one of my vinyl holders which is soft but much thicker than soft sleeves. I’m also doing this for my minis which I am now collecting ...

The little yellow tool is a plexiglass cutter. It basically scores the plexi, which then snaps cleanly. The plexi that comes in those cheap poster frames is very thin but I’ve also used this tool on heavier plexiglass (a 4’ x 8’ sheet). The utility knife would probably work on the thin stuff although the yellow tool only cost a few bucks. I used the utility knife to cut the cardboard backing and the “frame.”

Gee Greg...

Couldn't you pick a better pennant to demonstrate your vinyl holder? :rolleyes:

Ha .... yes this is one of my favorites, everything is stitched including the elephant. No paint.

Greg - I’d probably pop for the acrylic cutter. It drags out a little curl of plastic as you pull it towards you. The utility knife might work but it also might be too fine.

Two recent pickups. Athletics is unknown year, but I suspect it is early 1930s at the latest. Maybe late teens? Very thick, soft felt. Normal size pennant. Red Sox is a Keezer, I guess they did multicolor only for local Sox. I found it interesting that despite having a spine, the tassels were stitched on the outside.

I don't think I've ever seen tassels stitched that way before.

Nor have I.

I did another little experiment a few days back...washing a pennant. Just hot water and some powdered laundry soap. I was a tad freaked at first but the stains shown in my picture came out completely. The red isn't any the worse for wear, altho the spine is a bit lighter now.

The old, cloth-like pennants seem really delicate when they are soaking wet!

I'm wondering if any of you knew Bob Rothschild? He was a pre-ebay, SCD pennant seller. My collection pretty much started with pennants bought from Bob in the 1990's.

Same here! No pics in those SCD ads. Just a written one-line description for each item. I probably bought 25 of my very first Pennants from Bob. What a different world back then!

He was a no-nonsense Guy. Is Bob still around?

Don't know if he's still around. I think, back then, you still needed to consider the time of day for "long distance rates." :p

Very true. And I still remember calling to reserve them, only to find they had sold days ago. SCD took forever just to reach the west coast.

The halfway point between Bobs house in Jersey and mine was an exit of the Jersey turnpike. We met quit often back then

mini pennants
 

National League set of mini pennants from the early 1960s (HANCO). Giants on top (Dodgers on the bottom). I'm probably going to leave it intact.... maybe.

I definitely would!

I’ll bet you wouldn’t if the Dodgers were on top. 😂

Interesting! Seems like we can credit the mysterious HANCO with these two pennants that share same design:

The world’s only 8” by 36” pennant holder?

Here are the Phillies and Pirates minis. Does this Phillies pennant suggest that HANCO maybe made the pennants with stars orbiting hats? I know that design is common for the Phillies, but it is very rare for some other teams (e.g., the Giants pennant from a week or so ago).

Correct, the Phillies always had this logo, Trench used it for years. As for the early 70s series with all teams ... perhaps. There seem to be lots of Yankees/Mets pennants that have some similarities and that would suggest Hanco, I believe Domer located them in NY.

For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand. :D

Boy is that one brutally unattractive collection of pennants ... I swear I think the Ad Flag artist intended to scare little children with his sketches. Not only that, but these pennants were seemingly cut by a child with scissors and often the spine is like a full inch away from the border. It is interesting to see all of them together, however… I know the Padres has been auctioned before as a PCL pennant and I think the Milwaukee Brewers as one from the turn of the century!

I have a two different versions of the Astros (all orange, multicolor). They are both softer felt and decent quality. I also have two different versions of the Giants. They both look and feel like what I know to be football bootlegs (very stiff material, strange cuts, weird spines). Maybe the Astros were just early and there are lower quality versions produced at a later date.

Not sure if these are related, but I keep seeing versions of this Houston Colts pennant (blue on orange). I bought one of these for $6 a few years ago, believing it to be some kind of more recent copy. They keep selling on ebay for $50-$100.

Correct. HANCO was also known as the HANCO Art Novelty Co. Looks like they were in business as early as 1946 when they were located at 121 W. 27th St. in New York City. They existed through the 1980s; but were dissolved by the 1990s. Although they clearly made those early 1960s AL and NL mini pennants, we haven't found much more from them that ties them to professional sports pennants. They seem to have focused on travel/souvenir pennants.

Football Rob once found a NY Football Giants pennant by them; but, I think that's really it for them. I'm not aware of anything else. They may indeed have made some limited runs for New York teams....

I don't believe HANCO made that full size Houston pennant. I think they copied the artwork of others when they put that mini set together, as evidenced by that orbiting hat artwork they used--which seems to have been borrowed from Trench, as Greg points out.

I can think of no pennant by ADFLAG or WGN that ever bore an MLB logo. Like, not a single one. When MLB began licensing their marks in 1969, it appears they offered only Trench and ASCO this right. So, you won't find anything by other companies with the MLB logo because they would never have been officially licensed to make MLB pennants.

That doesn't mean they didn't make MLB pennants in 1969; it just means they weren't "officially licensed" merchandise.

I believe ADFLAG gave up on professional sports pennants by 1969, perhaps even a few years earlier. I could be wrong on this; but, after speaking with their owner, that's the impression I was left with. WGN, however, seems to have hung on through 1969, perhaps even a year or two later. They made a Reds pennant referencing them as "The Big Red Machine," which suggests it was made after 1969.

So would you say these are Ad Flag and made prior to 1969? The Brewers and Rangers are definitely post-1969. The Expos, Padres, Astros, Royals may or may not be as well.

I've always attributed these two football pennants to Ad Flag but they are from 1972. They are very similar in style to the baseball pennants pictured.

These two football pennants do indeed look like ADFLAG's work. They're monochrome, full body illustration, and tassel-less. Additionally, the steeler graphic was adapted from a larger rendition of the same player used for NFL and AFL pennants in the 1960s. And the matching texts confirms both were from the same maker.

When were these made do you suppose?

As to the baseball pennants ... I recognize most to be from ADFLAG. The Oakland A's one is by Trench. Not sure about the Padres one ... if made by Trench in 1969 or later I'd expect to see the MLB logo on it, which this lacks. Perhaps it was made in 1968, in anticipation of the team's creation? It's very similar to a white Padres pennant that Keezer made at the decade's end.

The Rangers, Royals, and Brewers one are a mystery to me....

The Astros one is an ADFLAG for sure.

The Rangers, Brewers, Padres and probably Royals are not AdFlag Pennants. There is another elusive one from this same “mystery maker”. It’s the Mariners “Mermaid” pennant linked below....

https://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/lot-5092.aspx

These were made in the 1970s and were most likely “bootlegs” for lack of a better term. Probably sold outside of the stadiums by street vendors, and not sanctioned by MLB. Thus, they had a short run, and are lots tougher to find than most Pennants from the ‘70s.

Who made these monstrosities?

I have a few AdFlags but keep them all buried, never again to see daylight. Except for one. I think it’s an early AdFlag. Really soft - softer than my creepy bum Brooklyn AdFlag. It’s on the wall because of its rarity and because it’s the Phillies ... but it is so butt ugly I think I have to move it along. (Mark - we’ve discussed this one, as you know.) Somehow the AdFlag artists followed it up with something worse, that creepy Quaker on navy and then baby blue felt.

Best baseball pennant “sets” in my opinion:

#1 Trench early 50s block letters (featuring Emmet Kelly, Uncle Sam head, Capitol building Senators). Classic, heavy soft felt

#2 WGN 1951-52 (featuring Cubs NL Anniversary pennant and Reds bomber - my avatar)

#3 ASCO 1969 cloth (white Pilots)

#4 Trench circa 1955 with TMC trademark (earliest Stadium pennants with Ebbets and Polo Grounds)

#5 late 40s unknown maker with the thin tassels and occasional airbrushed colors, this includes the angry Brownie

Best football set: early 60s Trench AFL

Pretty safe to say the two football pennants are from late 1972. The Dolphins and Steelers met in the AFC Championship Game on Dec 31, 1972. Dolphins were on their way to wrapping up their 17-0 season. I don't think I've seen any other 1970s conference championship games commemorated with pennants like this.

I can't get the Mariners pennant to open for some reason. Can someone post a screenshot?

I happen to like Greg's creepy Phillies pennant and I've see the Blue Quaker. I say put them up for Halloween.