Interesting question. As you likely know there was a time in the 1940s when the Phillies considered a name change, but did it in a weird way. Tried to gradually turn it over to Blue Jays. So for pennants, scorecards, even uniforms, the jay graphic began to appear. It never fully took so the plug was pulled in 1949. This is when “Fightin Phillies” took root. It seems the phrase had already been used as far back as ‘46 but my guess is that it took off when the blue jay was buried. The team used the script and bat part of the design as if it was an official logo, here are some scorecards that display it, one from 1949 and the other from 1951. (I don’t collect scorecards, these were images I found.)

I can’t say that I’ve ever seen the catcher/runner graphic anywhere else but on pennants. And there’s a good reason for that ... the team never really had a nice logo until the “fat P” was introduced in 1970. (My personal favorite were Phil and Phyllis from the bicentennial season.) They probably had nothing else to use! Eventually they moved to that dull graphic of a Phillies cap with stars orbiting it.

As for these scorecards ... recognize anything else?

So I recently moved and decided to start taking photos of all my pennants to catalog them. I see a lot of members post links to their pennants and was wondering how to go about doing that. I'd like to be able to share my collection with the group. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Go to google and click that checker board in the upper right corner. A menu of icons will appear...find and click "photos". A screen like the one attached here will appear. Click "albums", then "create album" and you will be prompted to upload pics. Easy as 1, 2, 3.

Rob,
I would like to see this closer as it does look like the graphics are in extraordinarily great shape compared to the tip. This particular pennant was made of “the most” fragile felt I have ever dealt with and it is very prone to pulling away at the tip like this one shows. Like Erik showed on his example, usually the graphics are a little stressed and not so bright. I currently have one like this for sale and although I wouldn’t call it rare, it is tough to find in great shape. Unless it can be had cheap, probably worth steering clear from.

As “the other Rob” said, it’s super easy....drag and drop....once you have them all in album, you can drag to rearrange if you wish.

Agree that google photos is pretty easy once you get going. Looking forward to seeing your pennant photo album(s).

I’m probably the only person on Earth who cares about this but here are two cloth ASCO pennants with a 1970 MLB trademark.

Interesting how the ‘69s are much more common and the only date trademarked NFLs are from ‘67.

AH-HA! That image of the Phillie leaning on his bat ... that was used (stolen?) by Keezer for use on one of their two known Phillies pennants.

If we use scorecards as a guide, they were using a Blue Jay in at least 1945 and 1947 (see scans), and they became the "Fightin' Phillies" for 1948.

Believe it or not...this stuff fascinates me too. I'd love a guide that showed the dates and chronological order of the various league trademarks. Anyone ever see one?

I agree with the previous comments on the fabric being extremely delicate. I was reluctant to iron the backside of the pennat as it was unclear if the fabric would disitigrate! Although I cannot recall specifically, I felt like I owned an old Keezer Red Sox pennant from the 40's (white 'felt') that was similar in material - but perhaps a little more sturdy.

Yessir and it’s a great graphic, has a cool dated look to it.

I still have the idea of putting together a guide that groups pennants by type/style/company. So the trademarked lots would fit right in. Doesn’t necessarily have to be a price guide, in fact I have my issues with the existing one (although in fairness the prices can be little more than educated guesses). I do like it for the pics.

I may have posted this before but this details the history of the Phillies “blue jay”:

https://www.toddradom.com/blog/sport...e-jaysphillies

So I have come to the unwise decision to fill in gaps on my walls with mini pennants, which I never really collected. I only have a few. Even made little holders out of the vinyl roll I bought. Anyone know of a guy who deals heavy with minis? Please DM me if so. I’d rather try to get batches on discount and not get creamed by shipping.

I should add, my other unfulfilled dream is to “wallpaper” an entire room with 1975 Topps ....

I love this idea. I’ve talked to FB Rob and Mark about this a little before. The idea of having attributes for each pennant photo as suggested (e.g. year estimate, company, team, style, color, trademark, rarity, etc.) and other corresponding info such as the photos of the pennants at an event (as people have been sharing) and / or advertisements. Collectively, we could have a very comprehensive guide and build on the great work Egner and others have done.

Plus, if the data are structured correctly, I assume the attributes could be used to filter, sort, group... idk, just thinking out loud.

I’d be in on this! Of course Domer has already done GREAT work on his blog ... identifying companies such as WGN, ASCO, Keezer, etc. For some we may have to guess, but can still group by obvious similarities.

Fballguy and I had a few beers in Houston last night and he made these pennants (and a few others) available to me. All very rare. Excited to add them to my collection.

Had a great time! And the beers softened the blow of saying goodbye to these babies. :p They'll look great on your walls Marc!

Thanks for all the help with getting google photos set up. It really was as easy as 1,2,3, lol. Now the million dollar question... how do I share it with the group so everyone can see it?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help.

Great stuff Marc...

I’ve been trying forever to find that last 49ers Pennant. Both of those are so rare! Good thing you Guys live close together, to avoid the P.O. right now!

In your album, click the icon circled below. You'll then see an option to "copy link". Just copy it and paste it into your message here.

I should've mentioned in my earlier post...I am "culling my herd" of pennants a little (primarily baseball). If anyone sees any that pique their interest, let me know. Would rather see them go to the diehards here than people I don't know.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Bjo3f2rMmVZqQWBM9

Well here goes...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uqhaq2p9CZdjTqNM7

Fballguy,

I'm interested in your 1940 tiger pennant.

Always looking for variations, upgrades or any Tiger pennants that I need for me collection.

Nice Tigers collection!

I really like the very 70s Mark Fidrych pennant.

Emailed and messaged you Rob.

Great stuff, Stephen! :D

Yes... very nice Tigers collection, Stephen!

Those must have lightened your wallet a bit! :p

Money well spent. And it saved me from the dilemma I was having about whether or not to bid on this pennant with some pros (rare, good graphics) and cons (tip, tear, damaged tassel, and two spines?). I didn't bid. It sold for north of $500.

Does anyone know of another dated Giants or Yankees pennant from 1951?

I do not. But luckily I found my Cinderella Boys in NRMT condition for under $300. One of the rare times I didn’t overpay. :rolleyes:

Now that I own one, I'm curious to hear more about what anyone knows about the "Champions" grommet pennants. Greg has some and we have talked about this a bit. Based on my understanding, there are similar style St. Louis Cardinals and Browns pennants with a 1939 date and "Champions" pennants dating back to at least 1919 (I think). But no Champions pennants with dates later than 1939.

Does anyone know if each of these champions pennants has more than one known copy? Or is each unique?

I also wondered if they were not somehow tied to the 1939 baseball centennial. Perhaps they were part of a display somewhere? Maybe in St. Louis given the Cardinals and Browns pennants with the 1939 date.

If you have one or have a picture of one, I'd be interested in seeing it. I hear that there is a 1919 Black Sox version somewhere. Anyone have a picture of it?

It was in Halper. If you have access to a Sotheby's Catalogue, you can easily find it. Or perhaps there is an on-line version of the Halper Catalogue that can be linked here?

Here is my counterpart to your Giants... 1936 Yankees. Please excuse the camera flash and sideways image.

Never seen another...

WOW...That's beautiful Mark.

Here’s a photo of the Halper version.

Thanks Mike and Mark. Mark- yours looks brand new. Does anyone know how much the Black Sox pennant sold for?

You’ve all seen this before but here’s the 1920 Dodgers.

Also, Marc, I do recall a 1938 dated team pennant for the Cardinals ... It’s in the Egner guide.

Mark that is stunning!

LOVE that one

You wouldn't believe it if I told you. I do not recall the exact number, but it was beyond staggering. I have a hard copy of all the prices realized stashed away somewhere. I'll look for it later tonight, and (assuming I find it) will post the number, which is almost beyond belief. :eek:

Edit: Maybe Mike K. has it (and can post it quicker), seeing that he had the photo.

The Black Sox pennant was Lot Number 543 and sold for $34,500.

We are still talking pennants, correct? I didn’t stumble across an antique car forum with prices like that, did I...$34k?!

Not the highest paid ....

Mark, Mike, Greg, and others- Is that the highest price you've seen paid for a baseball pennant? If so, anything else even close? (EDIT: I see that Greg just posted a higher priced Red Sox pennant).

If we assume that the Black Sox pennant is part of a series that was all produced at once (i.e., in the 1930s), I wonder if knowing that would affect the price if came back up for sale?

Well, what we here on the board assume would only really affect the price if we are the only ones who would bid. But we’re not. It’s a mystery for sure, but I haven’t seen any commemorative pennants of this style for 1903-1918 while I’ve seen about ten different for the years 1919-1939. It would seem that 1903 (or earlier?) would be the natural starting point if you are doing a historical series. And I’d assume the same number of each would be produced and would be equally scarce. But that’s not true. I still lean towards a long run of annual pennants from the same company.

Now if you show me a grommeted 1908 Cubs pennant? I’ll change my mind.

It's a legit question... but there would need to be iron-clad evidence that the pennant was a commemorative issue (made years later).

Also, that Halper sale was what... almost 20 years ago? The 1919 ChiSox Pennant might sell for even more now!

With regard to the highest price eve paid for a pennant... I think Greg nailed it with the Red Sox. I cannot recall a more expensive one. :confused:

Honorable Mention...

https://robertedwardauctions.com/auc...league-pennant

Mark finds pennants like this between his couch cushions. ;) :D:eek:

Ha ha ha.... I wish!

But note the similarities... Same maker for sure.

What does the Buffalo Federals pennant say in the footer, beneath the graphic? Looks like there's a tiny subscript there that may be a hint as to this mystery maker's identity....

Underneath the two central figures, it says "The Green Extra" "Glad to Meet You"

I would surmise that "The Green Extra" was a section of the Buffalo Enquirer Newspaper. I remember that the San Francisco Chronicle always had a green colored Sports Section. So perhaps that used to be a known practice, to differentiate the Paper's sports coverage from the rest of the news.

As far as the "Nice to Meet You" portion... I would guess that was a salutation referencing the brand new team and welcoming them to the new league. The pennant is dated 1914, so this would make perfect sense.

If anyone here can derive more from that caption, you're a better sleuth than me!

never mind

Oh come on Doug... Let's hear it!

Your perspective is always insightful... and I don't mind being wrong. I was just throwing out guesses anyway! :rolleyes:

Hey Leon...

Where does this thread rank, in terms of the total number of views?

It's gotta be way up there, with 686,953 views (as I write this). Even the epic "What's your Monster Number" thread has only 619,521 views.

So are there any threads that rank higher? And if so, what is the most views of any single thread?

If the site doesn't provide you this info, then nevermind! :rolleyes:

I posted the same as your first sentence, with no thought put into it.

I agree with your theory (and I was more of a pink section guy when it came to the SF Chronicle)...

Click on the title of the "views" column and it lists threads in order...

On a quick look around the site, this one seems to be the highest.

Postwar Baseball Cards Forum (Pre-1980) Show...me...your print variations! has 462,440 views...

All I know is that my goal in life is to be the 1,000,000th view.

Speaking of variations: Before Rob sold me the cool Giants and 49ers stuff, I was keeping busy looking for some 1960s/1970s Giants pennant variations. I'm finding that this type of collecting a) is useful for distracting me from my real job, and b) is not very expensive. Included here is a black variant of a Candlestick pennant that is much easier to find in Orange, a common black pennant with bat that usually does not have the 1969 MLB logo, and an ASCO (I think) pennant with the "big letter" MLB, but no date.

.

Great pennants Marc. This is such a cool and untapped niche. I’m hooked on it too. So many rarities in the late 60s to early 80s. They are fun to find. The upside is there’s not a lot of competition for them so you can usually get them on the cheap. The downside is there’s not a lot of competition for them so you can get them on the cheap. :mad: They are great adds to a collection, but resale value isn’t there because there aren’t enough diehard pennant collectors out there who can recognize or appreciate the variation/rarity. We need to change that. :D

One of many reasons why it’s good to keep this thread going. I appreciate pennants primarily for the aesthetics. These and yearbook covers provide the best examples of “baseball art” in my opinion. My office at school has its share of both ...

Somebody sent me an email via the system regarding a Red Sox pennant, and via multiple less than intelligent keystrokes I accidentally deleted it.

Apologies.

Please resend...

New acquisition ... so I don’t really delve into football pennants but I liked the artwork and the condition looked good. I learned that this was the earliest Bills logo until 1962 (showing two players instead of one). As it turned out it is basically mint, and looks like it never saw daylight. I missed out on a companion royal blue Oilers pennant which was stunning. Anyway, this is the good news. The bad news is that now I think I have to complete an AFL set, with the trademark. I’m halfway to the original eight but I don’t have the Texans or Titans. That .... won’t be easy.

I’ve never seen a LA Chargers pennant with the AFL mark, has anyone?

That's gorgeous... congrats on a great pickup, Greg.

I'll defer to Rob G. on your LA Chargers question....

But can assure you that you're in for a looooong wait (and stiff hit to the wallet), if/when you go after the Texans pennant. I have been trying for a few years, with no luck whatsoever. I was holding out for the yellow version (which I much prefer), and subsequently blew off a chance to buy a nice Red version at a decent price.

Big mistake... the only yellow one to surface since then looked like moth-induced swiss cheese (for a cool one grand). The Titans pennant will be much easier, and should run you less than $300. Good luck!

There isn't a known AFL logo L.A. Chargers pennant. Not only have I never seen one, there's a Chargers super collector named Pete Lowry who hasn't either. He has pretty much every Chargers pennant known to exist. This provides a pretty good hint at when the AFL began to use a trade mark. Had to be 1962 (the Titans and Texans were gone in 1963) which I believe predates the NFL use of a trademark.

Another oddity (probably to only me) is that the Miami Dolphins don't have a single bar helmet pennant with the AFL logo but all other AFL teams do including the Bengals who became a team two years after the Dolphins.

Mark...How could you pass on a beautiful red Texans pennant! :)

Maybe 1961? Bills team website and sportslogos.net shows the above logo for only 1960-61. Of course the logo could have been retired without Trench caring to change.

Another thing I noticed ... the Chiefs AFL pennant has the chief in either white or gold (pennant color).

A red Texans pennant? Wow, never saw one.

I do know the white Packers 1961 picture pennant has the NFL trademark. It lists them as Champs though so maybe it was sold in ‘62.

Greg- which Oilers pennant was it that you missed?

Here are my recent Oilers pickups (from Fballguy)

Nice ones Marc ... this one here. Someone must have attended an early Bills-Oilers game and locked these away. I love the Oiler man graphic.

$40k for a pennant is way less ridiculous than $3.9m for a Trout rookie card (complete with his indecipherable signature). :eek:

Yep you're right. I never noticed that primitive little logo on it. That must've been one of the first. The game was played on Dec 31, 1961, so safe to say the pennant came out in 1962. And now I notice the only other pennants to display an NFL trademark in the same time period are Trench photo pennants. But we know Trench wasn't the only company making NFL pennants at the time. Safe to assume trademarking started in the early 60s but wasn't enforced until the mid-late 60s.

Meant to include this photo...

That is a nice copy of that Oliers AFL pennant, Greg. As you probably know, it is not super rare, but finding one in great condition isn't easy.

Here is my other recent Houston purchase. I already had the Black version. Glad to add this bold Orange version.

And Greg's post about the Oilers had me searching through the completed ebay listings (why do I do that?) and I noticed this rare "atomic" style (I've never see it before) Giants 1960s/1970s pennant that sold as a BIN before either Ooribay or I could get to it : (

Very cool Giants pennant for the era. The only other team I've seen using those baseballs "orbiting" around the Cap is the Phillies. I know the Astros 1960s-70s Logo used something similar as well (but without a Cap).

Gotta be rare... hope you can find one!

Looks like that pennant was snapped up within 20 minutes of being listed. I'm guessing JR may have grabbed it, he seems to actively search for good deals and grab them very quickly. You might try contacting him, he would probably flip it to you but the price might be kinda high.

That pennant with the orbiting baseballs was made for a bunch of teams actually, I think they are early to mid 70s. All of the ones I’ve seen are stiff felt. Here’s an Expos and Braves without the baseballs but seemingly from same maker.

Are you referring to the Giants or the Oilers?

I have an A’s version as well. And I recognize the background in the Giants pic as belonging to a fellow Net54er...our good friend Erik C. This one sold pretty quickly if I’m remembering correctly.

Interesting ... my guess was that the color was super duper rare. I see it much more often in light blue.

Cool pickup with the orange Colts. They have great pennants. We’re taking about trademarks .... this brings to mind that Houston was one of the first to trademark their own logo; same with Astros. Referring to the little circled C inside the design, in the Colts it is to the right of the right gun handle and Astros at very bottom. .