Net54baseball.com Forums - the list (of criminals) is revealed

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swarmee (Post 1497652)

And almost impossible to prove, since they're not going to discuss their lack of additional bids with anyone else, including the auctionhouse...

Yes, but that can be true of seller collusion as well, sometimes there are smoking guns but often it has to be proved circumstantially.

On day 1, Zues created auction houses.
On day 2, Hades created shill bidding.

If you participate in bidding at auctions against strangers then shill bidding in one form or another is a significant and predictable risk. Too easy to call a friend and have him place a bid for you. It's unethical and illegal. But, very hard to police. So I accept it as a hobby hazard.

Having said that, once in awhile the rock is lifted, the sun shines on the mud beneath and the bugs scatter. And we can see you all very clearly now. You were betting we wouldn't ever see you. Oops.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGold (Post 1497520)

I was the consignor of a 1955 Red Man set in the August, 2007 Mastro Auctions which appears on the list being discussed. It is the only item where my name is listed as consignor and Peter Spaeth as the bidder.

Peter has already related the facts and expressed views as I see them. People may question my ethics but I ask that they at least acknowledge that this was the lone entry on a very long list, and that this one transaction was much different than many of those listed. I have had many private transactions with people on this board and as a seller and buyer on eBay, and I hope my past dealings are at least considered before passing judgment.

I made the decision to consign this set with Mastro Auctions despite the fact they would not use a reserve or high starting bid. They told me that they would allow me to select one bidder to place what constitutes a hidden reserve, as long as I understood that if that bid was the winning bid, I would have to pay a buyer's premium on that amount.

I assumed this was an acceptable practice as I was told this was done on other Mastro auction lots. At that time I believe Mastro Auctions was considered the premier auction house in our hobby.

I have been a member on this board for about 8 years, and have read the many discussions regarding shill bidding. My understanding and views have evolved over that time like I am sure it has for many other members. I understand and agree that using a hidden reserve in the way Mastro Auctions suggested is wrong. I only ask that the members here consider that this was done in 2007, that it was recommended by the leading auction house, that it was done once, that the hidden reserve was a fraction of the value of the lot, and that the buyer's premium was paid by me.

There was no intent to deceive anyone. This set was #1 on the PSA Registry by a very large margin. Every card was the highest graded at that time and almost half of the 50 cards were the only ones graded at that level. Any one interested in Red Man cards could see that I retired the set before the auction and then re-registered the set after the auction showing that the set had not changed hands.

Finally, and most importantly, I want to clarify the record. Peter is a good friend and wrote his explanation in such a way as not to distance himself from me, but the fact of the matter is that he did not place these bids, I did. He did know what I was doing because we discussed how I had been instructed to proceed by Doug Allen, and he does not deny that, but he was not an active participant in the bidding. The worst part of this whole affair is that an honest, good guy is being hurt for doing me a favor.

I to usually dont like to comment anymore on these posts but felt that the comments here needed it. So if I am reading this right Doug Allen was the one who told you to use a "hidden reserve" to protect your investment. So if Doug Allen told you to shoot someone with a BB gun instead of a 45 that the hole would be smaller would you do that? Bottom line is what you did was a shill weather it was in 2002 2005 2007 or 2016. Also if Im reading it correctly you say your friend (Peter) didnt bid so does that mean you took his account and his password from your own computer went in and placed the bid where you wanted it? Dont you think there is something wrong with that? So in other words if you say what is true (Peter your friend) didnt bid so that would mean you my friend shilled your own auction. So then lets ask another question suppose there was another bid placed on your item and someone won it, would you have told him ? As for Peter (A Lawyer) Im sorry and yes he fessed up but I really wonder if either of you would have come clean if this docuement hadnt come to light with your names there. As for Peter Im also sorry but you are a lawyer sir , you are held to a higher standard than others and you of all people should know what was done either by you or Ron was wrong. I to have been on this board for a long time so my comments arenot just off the cuff. Sorry but I probably would never deal with either of you and Im sure others would feel the same way. Also as was pointed out by another board member you did have an option to use another AU but you elected to stay with a thief! So in my eyes you sir are no better than they were.
Al S!m@on@

the fact that there are a number of lawyers on the list is a bit disconcerting to me...but again...not too shocking.

sorry if this comment offended any of the "other" lawyers on the board...as I know there are a bunch.

you'd never see dentists doing this kinda shit!:p

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds (Post 1497703)

the fact that there are a number of lawyers on the list is a bit disconcerting to me...but again...not too shocking.

Sorry if this comment offended any of the "other" lawyers on the board...as i know there are a bunch.

You'd never see dentists doing this kinda shit!:p

lmao!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bn2cardz (Post 1496700)

I have not won an item from Goldin auctions, but was watching stuff in the current auction. Does anyone think that his name being on the list will have negative results this weekend?

All depends on the actions of Darryl Abramowitz tonight.

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR COMPLETE TOPPS 60-70 NBA SETS THAT ARE IN GOOD TO EXCELLENT CONDITION.

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcarfagno (Post 1496813)

Darryl Abramowitz?

Tom C

exactly WHO da F**k is dat? and even bigger question is will he be participating in tonights auction!

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR COMPLETE TOPPS 60-70 NBA SETS THAT ARE IN GOOD TO EXCELLENT CONDITION.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shoebox (Post 1496907)

+1 There is at least one board member that appears as a consigner for many lots that is not in the list of shill bidders.

appearing as a consignor is one thing, especially if you are a true consignor with zero intent to shill. But if you appear as a consignor and consistently have the same exact specific named shiller, then there is more than enough justifiable reasons than not to be leery and suspicious.

J.Micah W

ALWAYS LOOKING FOR COMPLETE TOPPS 60-70 NBA SETS THAT ARE IN GOOD TO EXCELLENT CONDITION.

Very interesting to see this, especially when we have a consigner listed dozens of times and the shill bidder was always the same person, and that shill bidder is not show as shilling on anyone else's lots. Draw your own conclusions. Just an observation.

Dave Grob

I see some where (For example)

Consignor: John Doe

Shill Bidder: Paul Smith

Winnnig: Paul Smith

how does that qualify as shill if he won it?