Later "rare" pennants
 

Accidentally posted this as a new thread...meant to post in here...

I was having a conversation with Marc about this recently...

I know most people are into older pennants, but I was wondering if anyone had any rare "modern" pennants in their collection that they'd want to share. By modern I mean post 1970. Most of that stuff is really common and really boring especially as you get past there early 80s, but I've found a few things that interested me enough to pick them up and I wonder who else has? This is my most recent pick up.

Until recently, I had no idea it existed. It's from the "Freezer Bowl". The 27-7 Bengals win over the Chargers, that sent the Bengals to Super Bowl XVI. I'm guessing, because of the weather that day (-59 degree wind chill), people weren't eager to pull their hands out of their pockets to pay for things...let alone a pennant that you'd have to hold for 3+ hours. Has anyone seen it before?

PS...Let's see what you've got.

This is one of only two I have that fits the category. Pretty cool newer pennant, as it was a very short-lived farm team for the Seattle Pilots....

Lodi
 

Lodi Orioles of the California League - 1974-75'

Added a portion of my Cub pennants to google photos. Hope this works.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/JW9HXtofm13u2D4M6

Rare modern pennants
 

I have a few rare modern pennants. Most are football pennants. I've posted this Superbowl pennant before, and just picked up this bootleg version of the typical 49ers single bar helmet (no NFL logo, SF in helmet yellow instead of white).

As for Fballguy's pennant, I would really like to find a pennant for the NFC championship game from that year ("The catch" game). I have never seen one.

Although maybe not as cool as older pennants, it is fun to chase these really rare items. The bootleg pennants can be especially funky.

Help IDing these pennants
 

Hi Guys:

In my Corona Coop Up I just went through ALL 69 pages of this thread looking for info on the below.

Does anyone know who issued this 1950's era sheet with pennants?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Great Cubs pennants, Mike!

I really like the “pennant kit,” Fred. How big is each pennant? I will say there is no felt pennant I know of that matches the NY Giants on your sheet.

Here's a rare, older pennant! :p

I’m pretty sure this sheet was issued by Bazooka.

Hi Rob:

each pennant measures 5 & 3/4"

Interesting that the Giants design has not been seen before. I wonder if that is the same for other teams?

According to this listing, these were issued in the mid-1950s as part of a "pennant kit" by Post Cereal as part of a promotion they were running....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Post-C...cAAOSwsQJeu~iH

That listing was the genesis of my question. I have messaged the seller and he THINKS it is Post Cereal but can not recall exactly the form etc that was used to order the sheet.

I don't recall Bazooka offering these and have seen no evidence that Post Cereal did either.

Hoping someone here knows for sure

I can't confirm, but I'd lean Bazooka. That pennant kit looks like it folds into the shape of a Bazooka box. I've only seen Post pennants from the 1960s. Did they make them in the 50s?

Had to be issued between 1955 and '57 (based on the inclusion of both Kansas City Athletics and NY Giants/Brooklyn Dodgers). I would lean towards Bazooka but cannot find anything definitive to support it.

I hate to see this thread working its way to the bottom of the page so I thought I’d check in. ... So I have a few football pennants, although I don’t really collect them. But if I had to pick my favorite, it’s this one. I know it’s not that uncommon, I just love the artwork and the colors. Just beautiful.

That's a nice one, Greg. Panning for footballs. I saw a blue version of that pennant once, but did not buy it because it had some writing on it. Haven't seen anything but red since. Non-red versions are very difficult to find.

I recently learned from a 49ers collector that this might be the rarest football pennant that I own. I guess I like it more now?

It's still ugly! :p

I did the Google photos thing over in the "Any One Collect Pins?" thread, if anyone is interested. Bobbing heads, next?

I'm pretty sure I have a green and purple ones.

I see the green on your website.

That pennant is really beautiful in green! LOVE the off-color vintage pennants!

Beautiful! Observe how the graphics colors are also different! (Not fading, but literally different colors.)

Working pretty darn hard to make new look old

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-NY-YAN...G&LH_Auction=1

You can get a real one in nice condition for less than he's asking. Must be the fake Dodgers pin that's driving the price up. ;)

He needs to get into card trimming. Much less work for far more gain. One little snip, and it's $10 grand in profits (as evidenced by the Sam Jones Fleer...)

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showth...1360166&page=5


This guy is working way too hard for mere pennies. He needs to take a course in "Fraud 101" from Gary Moser. Not to mention that is the ugliest 1963 WS Pennant I've ever seen. Aren't 90% of them NRMT or better?

Although this is more in the travel/transportation category, because of the great depiction of Wrigley Field, I believe this pennant will fit in my Cubs collection very nicely.

That's a nice one.... and super rare. I have had one for 20+ years, and yours is now the only other example I've seen. Great pickup, Mike!

Thanks Mark. I knew it wasn’t a common pennant, but I didn’t know it was that tough. Glad I grabbed it up.

Cool pennant, Mike!

Retro Clean
 

I decided to try this out. First off: thanks to Marc for the idea and the information. I never heard of RC until he described his work on his Oilers pennant.

I picked up a Phillies Blue Jay pennant some time ago, it was rather dirty but it’s a very tough version. The soiling was years of gradual buildup and as a result, didn’t display well. I had it packed away.

The original intention was to apply it to the dirtiest spots, but as I should have expected, this caused a stain-looking outline to where it was applied. I then had a “what the hell” moment and went full blown soaking. One gallon of warm water, four teaspoons of RC. And at first it looked like disaster, the smell upon soaking was very strong and I have to say it smelled like fish. It went away after a few minutes. I only let it soak for about three hours (directions say up to 48) then let it sit in pure water for an hour, then hung it to dry overnight from a pants hanger.

The result? GREAT SUCCESS!

I would say that 75% of the dirt was removed and now it looks great on the wall. No bleeding or color loss. No change in size. No smell, no sign at all that anything was used to clean. Pictures below.

Then I got cocky and used it on another blue jay pennant I had packed away, the slightly more common one with the solid gold bird. This had some soiling near the spine. (Also mild fading along the top edge which of course remained.) Again, I’d say about 75% of dirt removed, and again with ZERO other effects to the pennant. Maybe it would have been even better had I let them soak longer and kept the water warm by keeping in sunlight (as recommended).

Pics are below, first two before, last two after. I think for some pennants this will work well, if you try this, test with Q tip to see if colors will run.

Next up? I have a few sooty white pennants ... might not take that gamble though.

Those came out great. Huge success. Congrats!

What is RC again?

Retro Clean. I got a small pouch for about $7.00.

Those look great, Greg. Much improved. Glad it worked. The Oilers pennant I used had very, very heavy paint (on thin fabric). I wonder if the paint issue I had on that pennant was related to the very heavy paint they had used. This stuff certainly works well on the colored felt. I probably also used a higher concentration of detergent to water (I just poured some into some water). Perhaps I had it too strong.

Great results on both! The big bird especially shows up a lot better now.

How rare would you say the big bird is, in comparison to the smaller version? Maybe 5 to 1 in terms of numbers? I’ve never owned one of those larger bird versions, and would love to find either color (especially the yellow one).

Great job on those!

Thanks! 5 to 1 seems about right. My guess is that they are older, from 1944-45ish, and that the others with the smaller bird went through 1949 when it was discontinued. Good research about the blue jay logo here:

https://www.toddradom.com/blog/sport...e-jaysphillies

Interestingly that neat early 50s series we like uses a blue jay logo. Picture below (I’m sure you’ve seen it) ... also the very COOLEST blue jay pennant I’ve ever seen, this was on eBay a few years ago and I missed out on it. Pulled the pic off an images search. The only one (I think) that I am missing ...

Nice work Greg!

Yes... Those are both great!!

Do we know that a laundry detergent “bath” wouldn’t work as well as Retro Clean? :confused:

Do not know ... maybe? Perhaps Oxi-Clean would work?

So I figured I’d take some more pictures today. When I thought about taking inventory, my original plan would be to group pennants by style or brand. For some it is obvious, like Keezer pennants are very distinct and many are stamped. For others you can tell they are of the same lot ... I’ll say “family” ... even if I cannot identify the company with certainty. Mr. Domer’s awesome research will help.

I thought I’d focus on the early 50s style in the link below. They share in common: simpler graphics, identical block letter font (not 3D), these come on both heavy felt and also cloth. These might be the first cloth pennants. They are well made. I have 12 of the 16 teams, missing Indians, Tigers, Reds, and Giants. This is a classy set, each team comes in many colors - Dodgers come in six or seven - I have some different ones but just posted one for each team. To pinpoint the date ... I have Browns but no Orioles. Phila A’s but no KCA. Milwaukee Braves but don’t think there’s a Boston Braves. There are some scroll pennants from 1949-50 that are obviously from the same company (similar font). But not just a plain team pennant.

So anyway, I’ll call this a 1953 set, with the Braves the only relocated team. You’ve all seen these before in other places, but maybe it’s cool to see them “as a family”. Would love to be able to identify the company.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NyA4tshAB4ijMTXd8

I believe pennants that followed have the 3-D block letter name and city in script.

Oh here’s another thing. To my knowledge, no team has two or more different graphics in this style. I think it’s just one for each team.

I’m not seeing any photos in the album.

Ugh. There seems to be a delay of sorts with Google photos. I’ll work on it. Thanks

This should work

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NyA4tshAB4ijMTXd8

No Giants?

Greg, awesome job tracking most of this "family" down. No question about it: these were all made by Trench Mfg. Co. in Buffalo, NY; and ca. 1953 looks to be about the right time period.

In the early half of the 1950s Trench used this distinctive serif font for both the city and team names. In the later half of the decade, they mixed things up a bit and began writing the city name in cursive; and the team name in a 3-D block letter font.

Either way, it's a very handsome letter scheme. It was so popular Trench pretty much used this lettering through the 1960s and early 70s. By the 1970s, other pennant makers began copying it.

Great work!

I don’t have it. I used to but I sold it long ago, when I flipped pennants to buy more. The Giants pennant from this family is the one with the giant baseball graphic.

Additionally I know what the Reds looks like. And the Indians (I think) has the generic Indian. I do not know if the Tigers have one. Can’t find it in the pennant price guide.

Also worth noting football pennants from the same time period share the same design.

Nice work Greg. Do you have a picture of the Reds pennant?

This one?

Yep! That’s it. Not a whole lot of imagination went into designing that one

Chris, looks like this one ... pre-Redlegs ... I’ve seen this in many colors, too ...

Interestingly I don’t think any of them are on white felt ...

Thanks, Greg. 53 sounds about right but it could be a few years earlier as the Reds officially became Redlegs in 53. I suppose that may not have mattered to the manufacturer though... Also, the Reds used this logo briefly in the early 50's just prior to becoming the Redlegs.

They jazzed it up a little after the move and I actually like these:

Ah yes, very nice ... and it kinda blows my 1953 hypothesis out of the water!

I don’t think so. They just resurrected the design.

This should be the Indians version from that specific series. There were so many variations and different fonts used over time, as this mascot was their “go-to” for many years.

Now I hope he’s enjoying his retirement. :cool:

Ps. If interested, he will be in LOTG’s summer auction, along with lots of other cool pennants!

Any Cub pennants in that auction? 🙏🏻

Not yet, but still working on it! ;)

😭

Yes that must be! Was this made without tassels? My White Sox pennant from this series was not made with them. And the felt is super thick.

Speaking of the Cubbies ... just cataloged mine ... hopefully this link works. I’m thinking of putting up the second oversized one in auction

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uGvDXCNQQixkbMF69

Great bunch of pennants. Thanks for sharing. I can't remember...Are you a Cubs fan?

I love seeing what you guys have. We need more of this.

Thanks Rob .. nope, Phillies all the way!

Yes! The Indians pennant features super thick forest green felt, and it never had tassels. Would be great if we could uncover the entire original set of these.

Just saw a home movie clip of a ‘54 Indians parade, presumably before the WS. Rare shot of the “teepee” pennant ...

That's a great pennant and shot from the video. Thanks for sharing.

Very nice. Thanks for sharing.

good stuff. your on a roll greg!

The oldest baseball pennant
 

Just curious...Does anyone know what the oldest baseball pennant known to exist is? Anyone here have it?

I think I had read that the earliest known one is a Knickerbockers Pennant. I forget all of the pertinent details, but there was a discussion about it here on net54 about 12-14 years ago.

If you are really good with the search function, you might find it. There was a pretty lengthy ongoing Pennant thread until this one displaced it. The info is probably contained somewhere within that other pennant thread (if you have the patience and desire to search for it).

Maybe that one was made especially for the Parade, or perhaps just for the Players?

Can't think of a better reason to explain the insane scarcity. Might be the only pennant of which I'd buy a repro version (just to have one).

I think I found the thread but the pics are gone ...

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=67606

Yeah I’m not sure ... speaking of which I’ll have a ‘48 indians pennant to show in a few days ... they sure made a bunch of different 48s and 54s ...

If the question is: what is the oldest *series* of pennants ... maybe it’s these. My rudimentary research puts the creation of silk screening around 1911-13. These pennants have sewn on letters, and reinforced edges. Most unique is the leather batter graphic. I have seen four teams: Cubs, White Sox, Red Sox, and Tigers. The Tigers is the best of the lot because it has a leather tiger head instead of the batter. I think Mark has it? Also I’ve seen the Cubs pennant with opposite colors as the one pictured. ... I have the Cubs and Sox, strangely the Sox is a little smaller yet still oversized. Couldn’t have been trimmed because of the way the edges were made.

Also I can think of those “B.B.C.” pennants as one of the oldest series.

Interesting read about the Knickerbockers pennant. Is this it?

Attachment 402909

That's it... Boy, you guys are good!!

I don't know man...I'd need some photo provenance to kick it up a little. It's not much to look at.

Pretty sure the one pictured is the reproduced version.

Obviously it's more about the age, history, story, importance and rarity than the aesthetics. I'd probably clear a spot on the wall for it. :rolleyes:

It's funny. The question was asked about the origin of the term "Pennant race" and the explanation was that the pennant was the traditional sign of a war ship and to capture a pennant would mean you were the victor. The first thing I thought of when I saw the Knickerbocker pennant was that it looked like a nautical flag.

Big props to Domer and his research. The one “set” that I don’t think gets enough appreciation is the 1969 cloth set with the unique MLB trademark. Reading through his blog I see that these are ASCO. The little ASCO Mark is missing on the cloth set but in a few years to follow these were made in felt and even the awful stiff material with the mark. I’m trying to complete the cloth set, in this pic are some of them, many but not all are cloth, there’s a Brewers pennant in there, and a Trench Pilots, and yeah that’s an Oscar Gamble poster because he was super cool.