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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Come on Zach, you can't go to bed yet. Bonds is still in the game. The guy is killing my sleep. I've been lucky to get 4 hours of sleep a night during the chase for the 755 and 756.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Charlie, you may not want to go down the convicted felon route. Others on the board resemble that remark.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Jay,<br /><br />Ok. I give up. I tried to represent the other side of your assertion to the best of my ability. Please come to the next national as we can can have a fun conversation over some beers that Leon might pay for. Smiley face.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>If it's Chicago I say we make Leon buy us a case of PBR.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>BEAUTIFULLY!

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Didnt Scott state that he was told by Mastro that the card could be cleaned with a q-tip and bleach? Why are we assuming it was merely cleaned with distilled water? As I have stated many times (I think) I generally would have no problem if I found out that a card I owned had a pencil mark erased or was cleaned with water. However, I think I'd be a tad more irritated to learn it was cleaned with bleach.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Thank God for the good folks at pfizer!<br /><br />Wimp

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Posted By: <b>David Smith</b><p>Why are people surprised that (alleged) unsavory activity is being done at an auction house?? Christies and Sothebys got into trouble for collusion, among other things, a few years back. Reputations were dmaged and people were fined and jailed for their actions. Why is Mastro (for example) no different??<br /><br />The executives of Enron and Adelphia were rich yet human nature took over and they wanted more and did illegal things to attain "more". Why couldn't this happen at Mastro??<br /><br />Ten years ago, when eBay first started and sports auction companies were coming into existence, an old-time collector (my Mentor) advised me to be careful and watch out for auctions. His advice was to be careful when really rare or high grade items started popping up. Because these were the items that would sell for the most yet also were the ones that were most likely to be reproduced or tampered with.<br /><br />An example he gave was the following. He knew that one of the things I wanted to add to my collection was an L1 baseball leather. He said for enough money, he knew a person who could MAKE me one. He said he knew a leathersmith who had been in business a long time and that all I needed to do was give him a color picture of the L1 I wanted and it's dimensions. The leathersmith could make it look like new or age and damage it to look old. Whatever I wanted. <br /><br />Of course, he advised me that if I ever did this, I would have to disclose <br />that the leather was a reproduction (I would). The problem, though, is the people who owned this fake piece after me. Would THEY disclose the leather was not as old as it was supposed to be?? I never went farther with this idea because 1) I didn't have the money and 2) I worried about what would happen afterwards if I ever sold a fake piece. However, I did remember his advice to be careful. <br /><br />The problem, as I see it, is how high at Mastro (or any auction company) does the problem go?? Is it a rogue lower level employee doing these things without their superior's knowledge or is the problem systemic?? If a lower level employee is cleaning/repairing a few cards for a friend or customer and only he/she knows about it, then the whole company shouldn't be tarred and feathered. But, if altering cards is a known practice from top to bottom (or even just at the top) and these alterations are not disclosed at the time of sale, then there is a MAJOR problem because WHO is benefiting the most?? The Owners and high level employees, that is who.<br /><br /><br />The people I worry about most in this (or any) hobby are the ones who know the most and who have a lot of money. These people know what an item is supposed to look like and have the money to reproduce it, if they wanted. An example might be the Pirate Cigarette cards which were just sold.<br /><br />When these cards first came to this board's attention, how many were curious about them?? I know I was. Now, how many thought there was something fishy going on?? If I remember correctly, there were a few. I mean, these cards rarely show up individually but here was an almost complete set with a few uncatalogued cards to boot. The strange thing was there were no doubles (at least not known at this time).<br /><br />If these were run of the mill cards that sold for $800 or even $8,000 dollars, then most people wouldn't take notice. But ultra-rare cards, in quantity, coming out of nowhere and selling for $8000,000 dollars is something else. <br /><br />If I were wealthy, unscrupulous and KNEW what Pirate Cigarette baseball cards were supposed to look and feel like, what is to keep me from going overseas and having someone make them?? I mean, going to China and paying someone there $100,000 to make these cards wouldn't be out of the question. A person there wouldn't know or care about baseball cards and they are so far away that if a stink was ever raised, they are out of the loop and even if they DID hear about a controversy, why would they come forward?? They were paid a lot of money, so why get involved?? If I were the rich person who had them made why would I care or say anything to raise eyebrows?? If I were unethical enough to have them created in the first place and then pocketed a $700,000 profit, I would keep my mouth shut and move on to other things. <br /><br />As an aside, this was just an example. I have NO knowledge of these cards and are just using these as an example of what COULD happen, so DO NOT SUE ME BECAUSE I KNOW NOTHING, AM IMPLYING NOTHING and don't have any money anyway.<br /><br />As far as automobiles (and collectibles ) go, I use as a guide the old saying, "a car is only original once". For the most part, an original, unrestored car is going to sell for more than a restored car, if both are in the same condition. If you don't believe me, just watch the Barrett-Jackson auctions in January on the SPEED Channel. The cars that sell for the most are rare cars that are original or restored back to original. Those cars are fully documented and, if restored, have full documentation of that, too. Altered or undocumented cars sell for WAY less than their documented brethren.<br /><br />Having said all of that, it does not mean that you just let an original car sit out in the open and let it get rusty and allow birds to crap all over it. You keep it stored in a climate controlled building and drive it every once in a while to let the fluids circulate.<br /><br />The same goes for cards. A card is only original once and those cards will sell for more than a restored card. And just as with cars, cards also have to be taken care of and stored properly. <br /><br />With collectibles, any alteration or restoration MUST be disclosed when selling. Otherwise, the buyer will think they are getting an original, unrestored example. If an altration has occured and is not noted at the time of sale, then I consider that fraud. Also, just because an alteration is not detectable now doesn't mean it wont be in the future.<br /><br />That is my two cents about this issue,<br /><br />David

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>That Charlie might have been squeezing the Liquid Truth?<br /><br />Say it isn't so Charlie.<br /><br />It's time for Charlie to come clean.<br /><br />Was it Water, or Bleach?

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Gee Charlie you are correct I am a convicted felon. I have said that over and over again. I am also a father and I have been married for 36 years. I also have been in the Steel business for over forty years. I am what I am. The only difference between us is that you think what you do is ok. I think that if you cheat someone for selling something bad (autographs) without telling them is the same as changing a card to get a higher price without telling them. If you have problem with that lets go to the FBI and you tell them that your selling something that you say is fact but you know its not. Im tired of you guys trying to make what I am the reason that its ok for you. If you cheat and you dont get caught your not a felon. Just remember it only took one person to change my life. If any of you belive that changeing a card in anyway is ok then you are what is wrong with this hobby.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Im not saying anything negative about Charlie - Ive dealt with Charlie many times and have always found him to be honest and upfront when answering any questions Ive had about cards. The card referenced above was altered by Mastro. Charlie had nothing to do with that card. I read his argument in the posts above as more generic - i.e. what's acceptable, whats not.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />I am sure you are a great guy. All felons are not bad guys and alot make great recoveries. But to try and say that erasing pencil from the back of a baseball card is commensurate with forging autos and or whatever it was you got indicted for is not accurate.<br /><br />I take you at your word that you are geniune in attempting to help the hobby. Your information to that end will be gladly received here.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Josh Adams</b><p>JK, <br /><br />I agree with you about the pencil mark. Also, if some gunk were removed from the back, it wouldn't really bother me all that much. But bleach, or other foreign substances added to a card in order to make it look better is cause for concern. At least that's my opinion. <br /><br />I think a big problem with this whole "alteration" issue is the lack of standards and guidelines for what constitutes an alteration, what is acceptable, and what isn't. Everyone has their own opinion.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Josh,<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words.<br /><br />Joe,<br /><br />Don't let the facts get in the way of a good diatribe.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>Charlie if you make it known what you did to the card you are correct. If you dont state that the card is altered and you recived more money because of that you are wrong.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />That is your opinion right?<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />Forging signatures and pencil removal cannot be deemed congruent deceptive practicises? <br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />Please provide legal precedent or law that states removing pencil from a baseball card is fraud. Or please change your stance because I can cite you many instances regarding forgery.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Shelly, what Charlie and others of his mind set don't get, or won't admit to, is that if they did admit to erasing pen/pencil or other "acceptable" alterations that it would negatively impact the final sales prices. If it really was acceptable and no one really cared, then this information would be offered in the description. It's not because it's not widely accepted contrary to what others here would have you believe. I'll believe its a widely accepted practice when Mastro and other major auction houses mention this type of work in their descriptions.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p>You belive what you want. I know there are at least a dozen law suites out there that say you wrong. I also know that are things happening that might really surprise you in the next few months. Cheating is not subjective.

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>The way they see it is:<br /><br />If one shoots a person using dum dums ... That's unclean.<br />On the other hand, if they use regular 45 rounds ... That's OK.<br /><br />The question for Charlie remains ... Did they use Water or Bleach?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />Since you did not answer the question, I will take it as an affirmative.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />In my opinion, bleach is not an acceptable way to remove a stain. Whomever is doing it.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>That you don't know what the Mr Clean Faction used to get rid of the stain. ... Is that right?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Joe,<br /><br />Correct. Do you?<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>shelly jaffe</b><p> Charlie,In the court of law there are degrees as to what is and what is not. If and item is altered and sold with your knowledge and you don't tell the buyer you are guilty of a civil or criminal act.I know that there are lawyers on this site please correct me if I am wrong. All I am saying is that if you knowingly sell something for more money by changeing what that item is it is wrong.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />I can see what you mean, your honor, he used a number 2 pencil eraser to erase R.H. on the back of an Old Judge. Under cross examination my lawyer would stipulate that the eraser in question was an artist gum eraser not a number 2 pencil.<br /><br />CB

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Posted By: <b>Joe Pelaez</b><p>That has been a known to many, but to him, it's like breaking new ground.<br /><br />Simply stated, Charlie has been on a soap box expounding the cleanliness of The Mr Clean Faction, when in fact, he knows nothing of their operation.<br /><br />He really should be a used car dealer, wiping off droppings on the windshields.<br /><br />Then again, birds of a feather stick together.<br />When you think about it ... Charlie is actually cleaning off his own droppings..............<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Shelly,<br /><br />I understand you are an expert on card alterations. I would urge you to post on that subject on Scott and Jay's board where serious discussions are welcomed. Kevin Saucier who I consider to be a true expert on the subject now posts over there.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me they will be banned"--Leon Luckey.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Interesting Crandell. Serious discussions aren't welcomed here huh?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Letrs see if Asphaltman get get himself thrown off with another round of personal attacks????

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>Dang, what the heck am I doing in this crappy place then? All you guys do is talk about punk rock and fight about where to have dinner. I'm taking my 1970 Topps jumbos and moving on.<br /><br />--Chad<br /><br />(kidding! I love you guys!)

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>a) WATER vs. BLEACH. On the issue of undisclosed erasures or water soaking gunk off, I take the same position as stated by someone (I forget who) above -- I draw a big line between water and bleach. But I disagree that there are no "standards and guidelines" for what constitutes an impermissible alteration. SGC has set forth those standards very clearly. In the event they begin not grading cards that have evidence of water soaking then I won't water soak my cards to get gunk off. As stated a zillion times on here before, SGC (and PSA, by the way) knows the practice -- water soaking -- they can detect it many times and still let it slide. Any time you see an SGC or PSA card encapsulated with glue residue on the reverse, there's your example of water removal. It was for a long time a universally accepted practice, old school collectors would drop albums in bathtubs filled with water and watch the cards rise to the surface. But water soaking has has recently come under fire on here by puritans who want to play a 100 year old game of musical chairs. If you want to change the standards, be my guest, but your beef is with the grading companies, not the collectors of raw cards. Again, SGC won't grade the bleached ones but will grade the formerly water soaked ones -- I agree with this stance and am not in favor of pushing for a change here.<br /><br /><br />b) LIES vs. OMISSIONS. It would be wrong to sell a card that you had soaked as "Never soaked card." That would be lying and, potentially, fraud. But I do not believe a seller has an affirmative obligation to say anything about a card when he sells it. You don't have to disclose creasing. You don't have to disclose corner damage. You don't even have to provide a scan. You want to provide the most information that will maximize your sale. And, more importantly, make your customer satisfied upon receipt of your card. I could sell water soaked cards on ebay all day without disclosing that fact and without upsetting any customers. Why? Because it is not like the card is worth any less as a result of the soaking. It is an undetectable alteration unless glue residue remains -- and if glue residue remains, well then that was evident in my scan, or I would disclose that fact in my listing. Again, deliver the card that you advertise and ensure it meets your buyer's expectations. That's just simple business. <br /><br />Again, both of these issues are resolved, in my opinion, by reputable third party graders. Raw cards are caveat emptor. <br /><br />And, for whatever it's worth, I have bought and sold probably close to 1,000 T206 cards on Net54 and ebay in the past 7 years. You know what? Not a single potential buyer once asked me whether I had soaked anything off the back of a card. I have also never asked a single seller whether he had soaked anything off the back of a card. Have I potentially lost sales from potential buyers on Net54 and ebay who know my proclivity towards a good water soaking? I suppose so. All I would say is if it is that much of a concern to you, go ahead and ask me whether I soaked the card in water or erased anything from it. I will tell you whether I had -- but I certainly won't be able to vouch for the card's previous owners since 1909.

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Posted By: <b>Petey</b><p>1. There will never be a consensus as to what is acceptable and what is not.<br />2. Even as to things that many would not be troubled by, e.g. erasure of light pencil marks, or soaking in water, there will rarely if ever be affirmative disclosure because SOMEONE will not want the card or will want it less and therefore such disclosure could affect the price. Does that make the nondisclosure fraud? Maybe. Depends. "Prolly" (I like that) a complex case by case question.<br />3. My best guess is that on an awful lot of cards, we have a lot more to worry about than erasure of light pencil marks.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Not sure if you saw my question or not? I understand if you didn't, just curious to your answer.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />John<br /><br />"Because Crandall, for all his pious purported discussion about cleaning up the hobby, was (and still seems to be) absolutely unwilling to donate even 1 of his precious 25,000 slabbed cards to be looked at, especially those that are probably altered."<br /><br /><br />"That's not exactly true. Although I don't claim to be an expert, many trust my opinion when it comes to identifying altered cards...Jim included. We have talked and in the not so distant future I will be inspecting several of his graded cards at no cost. "<br /><br /><br />If they turn out to be trimmed/altered will they be labeled and sold as such in the future? <br /><br />Jim if you’re out there are you that committed to the issue of cleaning up the hobby…that you would take a bath on your very expensive purchases?<br /><br />Just curious, that’s all.<br /><br /> <br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>No plans to reholder my cards.<br /><br />I looked at all 24,853 and I think they all look great.<br /><br />I am still buying graded cards to complete my p[sa 8 and better sets.<br /><br />I am still selling cards from sets that I don't believe I can complete in psa 8 or better when someone makes me an attractive offer.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"if anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- so not a single one of your 25,000 cards looks a little funky to you? That is an extraordinary percentage of unaltered cards. Are you being totally objective?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Totally--I have great cards.<br /><br />Are you in Sag Harbor--if so how is the weather?--my wife and daughter are driving out.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on the board personally, including me then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>paulstratton</b><p>Jim, <br /><br />In no way am I trying to attack you personally, but how is that possible? Not 1 card in 25, 000? Either you are extremely lucky, or you should be the one who is giving lessons to others on what to look for, or both. Like Barry, I find that extraordinary(not trying to put words in Barry's mouth).

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- right now I wish I were in Sag Harbor, but we rented our house out for the year and the tenant's lease doesn't end until Oct 31.<br /><br />But if anyone is listening to the news, there was a major hurricane in Brooklyn this morning, doing significant damage to some areas. Fortunately, we were spared.

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Posted By: <b>Joseph</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Hope none of your cards got soaked.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>No wet cards. Although we had a deluge early this morning, the hurricane was in another part of Brooklyn, but only 10-15 minutes from here. I didn't even know about it until somebody called me.

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Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Why would someone make a post on a non-serious-discussion Board? Wouldn't that make their post not serious? Hmmmmm......

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />Most subways not running, impossible to get a cab, our basement was flooded--now its back to 95 degrees--hopefully we will burn that ntl. gas for ac and get those miserable prices up!<br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />I'm just an expert an identifying alterations--giving up my wall street career to go into business with Kevin, Leon and Doug Allen.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to(continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />I’m sure they all look great, but that wasn’t my question….this was.<br /><br />If any of your high grade cards turned out to be altered in any way after Kevin’s inspection, would you re slab them as “AUTH” or sell them as is in their high grade holders?<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />John<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I wasn't aware that Kevin was inspecting my cards--let alone for free.<br /><br />I guess first I would make the decision to go that route which I haven't.<br /><br />If I do, would not plan to make my announcement through you--you haven't been very nice over the past year.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Jim...could you get rid of the stupid quote at the bottom of your messages. Its a wee bit childish. <br /><br />And for the record...I didn't "attack you". Your the one that made the ridicilious comment about "the other board" being one for serious discussions while this one seemingly is not.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>No.<br /><br />I am hoping that it inspires you to let loose with another personal attack that gets you booted off for good.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned too"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Jim obviously wants to try to hide behind the threat of expelling people from the Board if they disagree with his opinion or stand up to his own personal attacks. Since Jim doesn't realize that he invites criticism with virtually everything he says, he believes that the challenges he has faced on the Board are unsolicited. He also thinks they are all "personal attacks," which, of course, they aren't. <br /><br />I actually think it's kind of sad because it shows how affected he has been by the dialogues he has started; and that he is still totally unaware of how he could have possibly offended so many people championing what we all would agree is a positive cause. <br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />There is your first candidate for expulsion--a guy who cannot stand that mid-grade T206 are just as likely to be altered as high grade if not more and strikes back in a very nasty way when is suggested otherwise. I would suggest that the attacks he and the other three I mentioned have launched have been every bit as bad as the ones that Scott launched on you. If you are going to enforce the comment you made below then you should treat them equally.<br /><br />Again, I would have no interest in what T206 says and would never comment on his views and he goes out of his way to attack me again and again....under a secret identity<br /><br />T206--here is a suggestion--just don't respond to me--<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else (wants to)continue to attack anyone on the board personally, including me then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br /><br /><br />Jim<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p><br /><br />"Because Crandall, for all his pious purported discussion about cleaning up the hobby, was (and still seems to be) absolutely unwilling to donate even 1 of his precious 25,000 slabbed cards to be looked at, especially those that are probably altered."<br /><br /><br />"That's not exactly true. Although I don't claim to be an expert, many trust my opinion when it comes to identifying altered cards...Jim included. We have talked and in the not so distant future I will be inspecting several of his graded cards at no cost. "<br /> <br /><br />Jim,<br /><br />Read above, Only asking the question because what Kevin posted, this is the third time I have posted this for the record. Not making anything up or attacking you I also asked the question with no attitude and very politely I may add. <br /><br />Wish I could say the same for your reply, not asking you to make any announcements via me. For a guy who hates attacks you sure seem to want to throw down a lot. I’m trying to bury the hatchet with you Jim, regardless of how you feel I treated you in the past.<br /><br />I just asked a question that’s all. If you feel other wise that’s your issue not mine.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />John<br />

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>"I wasn't aware that Kevin was inspecting my cards--let alone for free.<br /><br />I guess first I would make the decision to go that route which I haven't.<br /><br />If I do, would not plan to make my announcement through you--you haven't been very nice over the past year.<br /><br />Jim"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Give the guy a break.<br /><br />Jim may not remember but we talked a few months ago and I offered to inspect some cards he selected at no cost. Whether or not he chooses to so is clearly up to him. Later I believe there was a of payment if he decided to send them but I made the initial offer and I stand by my word. <br /><br />....and if I were him I wouldn't tell anyone the results either, especially here. <br /><br />Keep in mind, for the most part, graded cards are not hack jobs. Unless there is something clearly obvious, I just give an opinion based on a gathering of small objective (and sometimes subjective) findings. Granted they have highly accurate opinions thus far.<br /><br /><br /><br />Kevin<br />

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Personally, I have a feeling if people start getting banned for commenting on Jim C's posts, this board will lose a lot of participants. Frankly, not that I think its about to happen, but if anything said by T206 was deemed an attack and he were to get banned as requested by Jim, I'd leave as well. Of course, I didnt make Jim's list of N54 participants who make worthy contributions to this board, so I guess it would be no real loss.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I don't know that it's fair to expect Jim to take a bath on his altered cards just to make a point. The guy can want to do all that he can to clean up the hobby without having to hurt himself and his family financially, right? All we want is to ensure that the grading companies be able to spot altered cards and stop providing favors to their big clients and for the auction companies to stop altering cards, stop selling items owned by the very people that authenticate them (i.e., stop conflicts of interest), and to stop shill bidding. Is that asking all that much?

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>John,<br /><br />"I'm trying to bury the hatchet with you Jim".<br /><br />Great news--I am a forgiving kind of guy who can forgive almost anything and I forgive you for your previous nasty comments.<br /><br />On your question, I tried to answer it. I was not aware that Kevin and I had reached an agreement to even have him look at my cards let alone for free so I cannot really comment on what I would do if he thought I had a card or two among the 24,983 that was altered.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Chad</b><p>If I make fun of myself? <br /><br />Leon has common sense, guys. I wouldn't hold him to something he said after Elkins repeatedly antagonized a response. It takes a lot to get banned from the board.<br /><br />So...hear any good music lately? I jsut discovered this internet radio site called Pandora and I'm addicted. It's got Townes Van Zandt playing right now! The Pogues and Al Green are lined up after that. Sweet!<br /><br />--Chad

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...I attacked Jim or pushed the attacking envelope in my post above. I don't think I'll be getting expelled any time soon. I know the rules; I respect them and play by them. <br /><br />I made no comments on this thread about T206 cards and their propensity to be altered at any grade level. And to the extent I ever made any such comments, I just suggested that it made more sense to trim a 5 with soft corners into an 8 with sharp corners, because a trimmed 3 with a crease would still be a 3. But then that's just common sense, isn't it?<br /><br />If anyone has any interest in reading Jim's "comments on [my] views" feel free to search either "armpit" or "backbone" in the Search function of this Board and read along from December of 2006, starting with the "About Soaking Cards" thread. It explains a lot of the background here.<br /><br />And, finally, my identity is hardly secret to Jim or most others on here. Jim and I have exchanged several private e-mails in the past.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jeff,<br /><br />I really think those who are saying this are just trying to get under my skin--sort of "you want to do the right thing for the hobby great--put your children's education at risk to show you really mean it.<br /><br />Kevin,<br /><br />Thanks--you are a true asset to the hobby--obviously if I go that route it would be with you. Some people have a huge vested interest with the status quo. This kind of stuff is why I urged you if you have something serious to say, say it on Scott's and Jay's board where this kind of stuff never happens--never.<br /><br />JK,<br /><br />There is a difference between commenting and personal attacks--I would suggest you look back and look at what some of them have said...and I never sead you didn't make a worthwhile contribution to the board--in fact, I think you do.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned--Leon Luckey.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>T206,<br /><br />Really--I don't know who you are--you can tell the world who you really are? <br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>"Shelly,<br /><br />I understand you are an expert on card alterations. I would urge you to post on that subject on Scott and Jay's board where serious discussions are welcomed. Kevin Saucier who I consider to be a true expert on the subject now posts over there.<br /><br />Jim"<br /><br /><br />What do you call the above Crandell? Other than an obvious statement made to once again bring attention to you....I'm also going to start thinking like you do....its a personal attack on this board Crandell that you initiated.

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Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>...is Paul. You can feel free to call me Paul instead of T206Collector if you like. Doesn't bother me either way.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“Great news--I am a forgiving kind of guy who can forgive almost anything and I forgive you for your previous nasty comments.”<br /><br />If I recall you were no angel I think we both may have had our reasons and points of view which lead to our past disagreements. But once again you manage to come off condescending and a bit like a small child holding a grudge. I’m so glad you can forgive me for all the hurtful things I did to you…..I can only hope that the therapy is going smoothly now. <br /><br />Jim do yourself a favor and move into a bubble where nobody can hurt you any more, you poor innocent lamb.<br /><br />Now go ahead and tattle to daddy Leon, and get me banned, for being so mean to you yet again. <br /><br />Leon if I broke the rules my bad, I tried to be civil, and asked what I thought was a legitimate question based off Kevin's response above, not a personal question just a question. Which the last time I checked was what we did here amongst each other. Sorry if I abused anyone by doing so.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Crandell isn't getting anybody kicked off this board anytime soon. That is wishful thinking. If anything he is the one himself bouncing up and down on the diving board.

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- the one comment you made that I respectfully disagree with is there are serious and substantive discussions taking place on this board, many of which I consider important and worthwhile.<br /><br />And Jeff- I think that is asking too much, more than you are likely to see anytime soon (unfortunately).<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>If I were inclined to diagnose over the internets ala the esteemed Senator Doctor Bill Frist of Tennessee I would say That Jim lacks self-awareness on a level that I would classify as a personality disorder. Therefore I will stop picking on the poor fella as I have come to realize that he can not help himself and he no longer has my derision, but has earned my pity.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>John,<br /><br />I answered your question about Kevin honestly each time and I forgave you for your prior nastiness. Don't understand why you want to continue to go after me--seems like what would make you the happiest is if I submitted all 24,983 cards to Kevin and then I publicized which ones he thought might be suspect and then I told sgc to relabel those cards authentic and then I went to sell them and took a financial loss...and you would be happy...especially so if it caused me personal and financial hardship.<br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />Okay--at least you call me Jim--you shall be Paul.<br /><br />Asphaltman,<br /><br />If it makes you feel better to keep insulting me go right ahead.....I would just say you are building up a good history of personal attacks.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Bretta Bretta Bretta,<br /><br />Can you possibly let a day go by without more insults and attacks--come on--you have been thinking all day and this is the best you can come with--your personal attacks are usually a lot more vicious than this--come on.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>Since you are unable or unwilling to provide a single scan to this board, or at least I have never seen one, would you be so kind as to provide a list, partial list or even a few examples of what pre-war baseball cards you own, so that we on this pre-war baseball card forum can find some common areas of discussion? Thanks in advance.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Jim...I haven't said it today. But, saying your a moron doesn't equate to a personal attack. It's a basic obversation. Everything else I have said has been nothing more than speaking the truth...<br /><br />And I do love how you keep going with "Asphaltman" even though my name is right there as well. I don't care either though...if it makes you feel like tough guy to say Asphaltman...then go ahead and beat on your chest Crandell.

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Todd...with respect to Jim. He does actually own quite a bit of high end cards...probably as many as anyone. I believe the story I got was that he ws involved in Fruit Loops or Apple Jacks...something in that ballfield. Maybe Crandell can clarify. <br /><br />But I agree...he doesn't contribute anything to the board as far as his collection, or his thoughts or opinions on anything card related other than this grading issue...which is a stale pig at this point.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim,<br /><br />Not at all, even though we get under each others skin per say. I don’t wish you and your family financial loss or any hardships. We have our occasional pissing matches Jim, but I don’t get off on schadenfreude yours or anyone else’s for that matter.<br /><br />No Jim, it was more if Kevin found cards, would you use a few of those cards which I assume to be very $$$ to champion your cause again, and hold these grading companies and sellers liable and perhaps bring attention to the issues you so passionately always talk about? Or would you keep it to yourself not risk the loss and pass it along to the next guy? Nobody’s expecting you to be a hero, in fact in your shoes not sure what I would do, but then again I’m not the guy who had a pizza party to clean this stuff up either.<br /><br />You championed the cause here and with others, so you in way pigeon holed yourself into having to do the right thing, if not you run the risk of being a hypocrite. That’s all I’m saying. Maybe that makes no sense if not I’m sorry.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Jim, you are right...I will stop picking on you from here on out.<br /><br />Leon, please don't ban me!!!

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Todd,<br /><br />I don't have a scanner...although now that I bought a new computer I will have to take my friend Al Crisafulli up on his offer to set me up.<br /><br />All my sets are up on the PSA Set Registry under Davalillo. I have talked about what sets I own many times--but I am on this board not to talk about the cards as much as the serious issues facing the hobby. Thought that Net54 would be a good place to do that. Maybe not.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>"All we want is to ensure that the grading companies be able to spot altered cards and stop providing favors to their big clients and for the auction companies to stop altering cards, stop selling items owned by the very people that authenticate them (i.e., stop conflicts of interest), and to stop shill bidding. Is that asking all that much?"<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Best post I have seen in a long time!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Kevin

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>DaveF,<br /><br />I thought your screen name was Asphaltman...I didn't remembner DaveF <br /><br />And calling someone a moron is a personal attack and if Leon means what he says you should be gone and the board would be a better place. This should be a board where people can discuss all issues surrounding vintage cards not insult someone continually like you seem to enjoy doing....and to think, if you are the guy from Alpharetta, you are practically my next door neighbor. I thought Southerners had more manners.<br /><br />John,<br /><br />I don't know what I would do as I have not thought about it and probably will not do it...and I don't think that makes me a hypocrite.<br /><br />I had the dinner to get peoples ideas about what could be done--sorry I was trying to actually do some good for the hobby--some(not you) would rather insult me than see something accomplished.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I agree Kevin, Jeff hit it on the head….but Jeff how do you suggest or handle all the cards out there that have already been given that unfair set of guidelines.<br /><br />Sort of hard to draw a line in the sand and say from here on out will do it right, and do those past items hold their value or not, and if not who foots the bill to make it all better?<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Kevin,<br /><br />Absolutely--however, there are a lot of people with a big vested interest in the status quo which continues to look more shaky with each passing month.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey

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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Crandell..<br /><br />The bottom line is this "fix the grading company" debate is going nowhere. It has been for months..and it's getting old. <br /><br />Your like the kid that sits in the sun burning ants with a magnifying class. Please Jim...give the "debate" a rest and go look at some of your 1959 topps.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim, <br /><br />Enough please, I’m not trying to belittle your efforts if anything I’m applauding them, but even you have to admit it’s a tricky situation. Champion a cause and expecting an industry, companies and people to make sacrifices that you yourself may not be ready or willing to take.<br /><br />Sort of like launching a global warming film and fueling up your Gulfstream a dozen times to jet set the world….ehhh Leo! LOL<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>John,<br /><br />In all seriousness and not because I own 24,983 graded cards, I think you draw the line in the sand and make it better from here. Even if Jim Crandell resubmits his cards to SGC the rest of the world will not.<br /><br />Thats why I think Kevin's seal of approval is such a good idea. Over time if it works than in order for a graded card to even be sold at auction it would have to have that seal--ebverything else would be potentially suspect.<br /><br />Jim<br /><br />"If anyone else wants to (continue to) attack anyone on this board personally, including me, then they will be banned"--Leon Luckey