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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>All I would ask is you do one on Leon Luckey as well and post both results side by side. THEN, let people judge for themselves who is the criminal.<br /><br />One thing I have not posted, but is relevant here as to things Leon has said and denies in public, is the fact that there IS a reason Leon does not want private e-mails posted here. Not only would they prove things people say he does not agree with, but Leon, himself, is such a two-faced backstabber, that this would and could be exposed within seconds. I even have e-mails where Leon talks about others and tells me NOT to tell them what he said. I have e-mails Leon has sent others regarding me, telling them NOT to forward to me b/c of the content (however, at least one person did just that and I still have the e-mails).<br /><br />Anwyay, Leon and I are alike in ONE way - you either like us or you hate us. The one big difference is that I truly love the Hobby, and not only the money side of it, so I tell things like they are and don't have to tell this person not to e-mail or tell what I said to that person. I am a straight shooter, as can be evidenced in this thread. If I were not, I would have not mentioned I participate in cockfighting, as I know there are always those who attack cockfighting. I have been called everything from a retard by Leon to a Barbarian by Jeff. I have defended my position on cockfighting. If this was on the Aimoo board, I would not have deleted or edited one person's comments, as Leon did mine. However, the only answer I have for Leon deleting my post is that the truth hurts and he did not want come members to see that part of the post. I truly believe we all have to answer to God for what we do one day. If one cannot stand up and justify what they do on this forum, they sure as Hell are not going to be able to justify their actions in front of God!

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Paranoia is not a very endearing quality, Jay. It's a huge leap of logic to believe that holding one's feet to the fire for his own words leads to doing background checks on that person. <br /><br />This Bob character

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I'm far from paranoid, but to say you are overzealous is an understatement. Anyone that knows me well knows that very few things make me uncomfortable, but you going after anyone the way you did makes me uncomfortable and I would hope other people were uncomfortable with it too. <br /><br />My emails should be a fun read tomorrow after this.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Scott, If there is a god then I hope he has a moral equivalence scale where deleting posts is not nearly as weighty as strapping razor blades to chickens so they can fight to the death.<br /><br />Jay, I apologize once again, but your first post where you mentioned background checks came off to me as you were hoping this person would do a background check on Bob. Also I don't understand why you come over here if you have your own board now which was created because you did not like the direction this one was going.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>He made everything on earth and he certainly will be the one in the end judging all of us - luckily for me, it will NOT be you. Also, God is the one who made game chickens want to fight until death as a natural instinct, made people want to kill animals for meat and even states in the Bible that man has domain over the animals of the earth. You may not like everything God has done, but who are you to question God!?!?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>I still consider this home and look at Leon as the evil step-dad that came into my home and ruined things.<br /><br />Even if Leon were to eventually step aside, I wouldn't leave the other board because a lot of valuable information is easily accessible there that you cannot easily find here, even with the search function. The other board is nice because there is no drama over there. Just card talk. It's like a vacation and much more enjoyable because people actually talk cards and about the hobby. I'm sure as the board grows, it will have it's share of drama, but right it's paradise compared to here.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>People use religion all the time to condone their reprehensible actions. Those types of people give religion a bad name. You are one of those people. I haven't read the entire Bible, but I'm just going to hazard a guess that there is no passage that contains the words "cockfighting" or "Razor Blades". If I'm wrong I'm sure you'll correct me.<br /><br />And I'm still waiting for your apology.

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Okay Jay, but just for the record I see you post in almost all of the off topic threads here and rarely in the baseball card threads. Also when I first showed up on this board you were one of the main instigators of the disharmony. As far as I know this board has NEVER been without some drama.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I really didn't want to waste my breath on ya'll but I guess I have no choice. First of all there is a reason that you have 105 people registered on your board and about 10 that participate. It's because ya'll are fighting a battle that no one cares about. The battle is all made up in your minds. I am not into running this board for the money. Ya'll think I am. You are wrong. I put banner ads up there for reasons I stated long ago. BTW, it seems you both participated in the recent banner ad sponsored contest. Kind of hypocritical don't you think? You state I censor stuff but you move threads off of your board so only moderators can see them. Kind of hypocritical huh? <br /><br />Lets get to what I deleted that Scott said. He said I smoke pot and this and that. What I do on my own personal time is my business and it's against the rules to talk about personal stuff on the board. I didn't bring up Scott's insane sport of cockfighting that is horrendous to almost any educated person. SCOTT opened his mouth...not me. This thread was up for 5 hours and I knew immediately what Scott did. Jay Miller didn't...until I told him. Yet, it is Scott's personal life, and I wasn't going there. However, Scott likes to make me out as all about the 15k or whatever I will net a year from advertising....yet part of the NET54 dinner will be sponsored with that money as well as all of the board contests. There are at least 2 everyday posters who said they might not be able to come to the National due to financial reasons. I offered both of them a little help, privately, if they needed it. The money comes from no one personally so I am not sure what it matters to ya'll unless you are jealous. Ya'll say I protect advertisers and that is an outright lie. I never have and never will. You can always say there is a perception..well, the perception is in your distorted minds. Show me one time where I have. You can't because I haven't. I have taken more abuse from both of you than any person deserves. I am not the bad person ya'll make me out to be. I am not hypocritical like ya'll are.....You really need to go back to your board and have fun. That's what this hobby is about. Neither of you contribute positively to this board...especially you Scott...so really you could be considered a troll. No matter what I do it won't be in the same league with raising roosters to kill each other. Have fun my friends.....<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>so there is no need for me to say anything else to you. <br /><br />Also, Jeff Litchman, the Saint of all Saints, who defends organized crime members, murderers, drug dealers and the like, is hypocritical enough to defend the lowest of the low in society (drug dealers - people who sell kids drugs and kill millions each year), and yet have the nads enough to throw stones at me for cockfighting! This is simply ludricrous beyond belief! Evidently, Jeff has made it clear that a chicken's life means much more to him and his beliefs than a person's life. BTW - how did you meet Leon Jeff - were you his counsel on the drug charges, or are you representing him now - you certainly come to his aid a lot on this board????

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Keep giving me such a hard time and you will be leaving this board....that's a promise. You need to contribute positively or don't contribute at all. thanks a lot...

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>Looks like Scott did a background check on Jeff. Discomfit, anyone?

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>This came in approximately 17-18 private e-mails I received from different people who know what Jeff does and couldn't believe he was attacking me for cockfighting with the "crowd" he defends! I knew nothing about Jeff until earlier today from different e-mails.

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>OK. I Retract the allegation.

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Looks like you need to lay off the weed. You claim you have never protected advertisers - Hell, just a few days ago you were on here protecting Mastro and locking a thread! Surely you do not think most people are dumb enough to believe what you say????

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Scott Elkins wrote at 1:03 AM on July 19, 2007: "Dan, once again, you show your low IQ level in your comments"<br /> <br />I don't even know how to respond to that......except to say you owe me a new Irony Meter.<br />

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>The Mastro thread was 399 posts before I locked it. The last 100 posts or so were completely off topic. That was protecting them? All I questioned was why we were rehashing an old news story and nothing had come up in a year an nothing new. I am sure you don't understand my reasoning as the clucking is still sounding in your head... How about responding to my comments about your hypocrisy? Also, the reason I don't let personal emails on this board is for the exact reason you posted mine on your board. You manipulated my emails to you and posted what you wanted. You are a thief, liar, hypocrit and animal killer.....I am very surprised that a few decent people even associate with you. You are pathetic at best....at worst...I won't mention it.

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>Your last post was bull****. You can't gain credibility, if that's what you want, by stuff like that.<br /><br />I've read this thread, read how things have changed since Leon took over, and just don't see it. I was there on the Full Count board too. To my recollection, Full Count took it down, at least in part, because of crap like this.<br /><br />I don't know why you and Leon are sideways. Nor do I care. Whatever your beef is, you may be right, he may be right, or you may both be right depending on the issue.<br /><br />Whatever the situation is, the fact remains that you have your own chatboard and you came over to this one. Leon didn't go to yours and call you a piece of **** because you fought chickens. If you want to shoot at him, you had damn well better come up with something that happened more recently than 25 years ago. That's just ridiculous. <br /><br />I don't always agree with what Leon says or does. But I am damn sure glad that he says and does it, because otherwise this board wouldn't exist. BTW, neither would yours. Did you ever think of that? Your board exists precisely because you disagreed with how Leon was running this one. At least indirectly, you owe the existence of your board to Leon. How ironic.<br /><br />To date, you and me haven't been sideways. I think your last post was complete bs though. I hope that you are man enough to apologize for what I think was a completely chicken**** post. If not, then I don't think you have much room to call anyone out anymore.<br /><br />Kenny Cole

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Btw, the drama over here is from 3 people. YOU, SCOTT and CRANDALL.....without ya'll we would be doing fine...so guess what?...keep posting negatively Jay and Scott and all you will have to post on is your board...I can make this a very calm happy place again very easily....where all 1000 folks get along well....3 bad apples and it ruins the whole thing....(though I don't really mean to bring Crandall into this)...

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Posted By: <b>Trevor Hocking</b><p>Seriously guys!!!! I just read the whole thing and I wish I didn't but I did. Sorry but this is just sad <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14> I think everyone needs to go grab some cards and hold them <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />Trevor

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Scott, that I represent people charged with crimes should not be equated with someone who tortures animals for fun. Again, I'll repeat: I am not a criminal. I represent people in criminal cases. I do not believe that people who are convicted of crimes should avoid punishment. <br /><br />And not only are you an atrocity for torturing animals but a liar as well. Somehow I can't imagine that 17 or 18 people actually support you. Hell, you can't even get 17 or 18 posts on your board in a week.

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>What Jeff is trying to say is that he despises those who engage in cockfighting. The activity sickens him to no end. That said, if someone is arrested for cockfighting, he will gladly represent them. But not for the money, for the principle.

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Posted By: <b>mr. moses</b><p>smoke pot. I'm also thinking of giving it up to smoke chickens.<br />Hey Ma! Look at me! I'm in a really ridiculous baseballess thread and I can't get out!<br /><br />(edited to add ALLEGEDLY I think I might - this is a tough crowd that never forgets......)

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Mark M, does it make you feel good to attack me as I take a stand against harming animals? Or are you just so frustrated because you consider yourself such a tax star that you actually incorporated it into your email address -- and yet you remain a 40 year old associate/bag carrier at your law firm?<br /><br />The fact is, I would never represent someone who I believed was guilty of harming animals. Because I am my own boss I get to pick and choose the cases I take. Again, your time is better spent billing hours than looking for an opportunity to bash me once a week. Although at your rate both routes clearly lead to nowhere.<br /><br />edited a last name out...in fairness

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>I have personally never harmed a chicken. The chickens kill one another. So, to call me an animal killer is totally outrageous and an outright lie. <br /><br />Kenny, as far as I know, you mean well in your post. I might go over the lines in my posts and will admit that. However, you cannot seriously thow stones at only me if you have read some of Leon's, Jeff's and Dan's posts towards me. You are correct - you and I have never been "sideways" or whatever you state. In fact, I can't even place you off the top of my head. Again, it is simply not right to ask me to apologize, when the people I was referring to are making comments much worse about me. If I believe in something, I will stand up for it. If I believe I am right, I certainly will not apologize for any comments I made in my defense. Sorry. Scott

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"I have personally never harmed a chicken. The chickens kill one another. So, to call me an animal killer is totall an outright lie "<br /><br />I didn't kill that man. The bullet killed him. So to call me a killer is an outright lie.<br /><br />--And you accuse Leon of smoking pot?<br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Again, quit distorting facts. If an animal kills another animal, it is certainly not a person's fault. If a zoo keeper lets a tiger loose and that tiger kills another animal, did the zoo keeper actually kill the animal? You can try to lie and distort all you want. Like I stated, the many e-mails I have received since early this morning seem correct about you. No wonder you get along well with Leon - either of you would do anything for $$$! You have NO MORALS. Yet, you find fault with anyone who opposes you, Leon, Mastro or any of the other clique here at Net 54? Just look at your belittling of Mark. Mark has more integrity in his little finger than you have in your entire body Jeff!

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Posted By: <b>Mark</b><p>Well Jeff, I stand mistaken. You defend people who have committed violent crimes against humans but not against chickens. <br /><br />I'm flattered by your continued observations about my career. Jeff, I think you love me. Why don't you explain to the nonlawyers here that big firm bag carriers make more than you do?<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Bottom of the Ninth</b><p>This has certainly turned into a cockfight of sorts, now hasn't it?

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Posted By: <b>ScottIngold</b><p>Just think of what Wonka could do with photoshop here !!!!!!

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>Leon, you are living in a fantasy land if you think that me, Jim and Scott are the sole source of problems on this board. All you have to do is go back to when you banned me and I did stop posting for about 6 months. Scott didn't post during that time either. The only person left was Jim. <br /><br />You mean to tell me that Jim single handedly turned this board upside-down during that time? No way. It takes two to tango and there are plenty of other people that contribute to the disharmony, but you don't tell them to go away or shut up because they are either your friends or you like what they have to say. If anyone opposes you, then they are a problem in your mind. This part of the hypocrisy that I accuse you of. <br /><br />As for some threads on our board that were parked out of site for awhile, they are now back on the board. You seem to have forgotten to mention that part. The other thing you didn't mention is that almost all those posts that were hidden were posts made be me or Scott. Geez, we actually censored ourselves. Yup, we are so horrible and hypocritical that we will censor ourselves over there. The only person that we've have censored over there is BcD. Go figure.<br /><br />You may let a thread not flattering to Mastro run for a little bit, but your ultimate response is to lock it rather than let it go it's natural course. If people want to talk about, then let them. But then again you are the dictator and you dictate what is acceptable to talk about. Obviously, saying bad things about Mastro, or any of your friends is not allowed.<br /><br />And once again, you let a personal attack by Jeff slide. If you want point fingers at a drama starter around here, there is a perfect target for you. Reign him in and lot of your problems go away. Remember, it takes two to cause drama. <br /><br />Jay<br><br>I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>SO here is how we will finish this idiotic thread. Jay or Scott....if either of you bring anymore negativity to this board you will be banned. If you only participate negatively in threads you will be banned. This is a board about the hobby and hopefully collecting cards with friends. This is not a threat....I have a duty to the board and if something is detrimental to the welfare of it I will do whatever I need to, to fix it. Thanks for participating...Please don't think this is an idle threat. It's not meant to be a threat. I am doing what I was chosen to do...have a good day.