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-   -   Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=352423)

jayshum 06-01-2025 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519416)
Even if it's to the detriment of the team and organization?
You don't think going back on a verbal agreement would be to the detriment of the team and organization?

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2519420)
You don't think going back on a verbal agreement would be to the detriment of the team and organization?
Not nearly as much as risking your franchise player who has already undergone two Tommy John surgeries, no. He wasn't even that great a pitcher when he got hurt, he had been much better the prior year. I forget where Fangraphs had him but it wasn't all that high.

jayshum 06-01-2025 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519421)
Not nearly as much as risking your franchise player who has already undergone two Tommy John surgeries, no. He wasn't even that great a pitcher when he got hurt, he had been much better the prior year. I forget where Fangraphs had him but it wasn't all that high.
He was 10-5 with a 3.14 ERA in 23 starts in 2023 for a WAR of 3.9 so not too shabby. I actually agree that they shouldn't risk having him pitch, but it's not like they didn't know he had already undergone 2 TJ surgeries when they signed him. However, if the part of the deal to get him to sign was that he wanted to pitch, unless they can convince him otherwise, they have to let him. Teams don't want other players to think that they're not sure if the Dodgers are as good as their word when considering signing with them.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-01-2025 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519410)
So he not only makes a billion dollars, he gets to dictate to the ownership and management? :eek: It might piss him off to take him out in the fourth inning too, or to limit his starts. Gee that might not go over well nobody's going to want to go there any more.
If they agreed to it when they signed him they should live up to it. You're setting up strawmen.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-01-2025 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519416)
Even if it's to the detriment of the team and organization?
I keep my word to the detriment of my company on a somewhat regular basis.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 08:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2519427)
If they agreed to it when they signed him they should live up to it. You're setting up strawmen.
It's not really a straw man. What does it mean to "let him pitch"? Do you think the parties defined it? What if the team's idea of when and how to use him is completely different from Ohtani's? What if the team envisions using him in low-pressure mop up stints?

bk400 06-01-2025 08:56 PM
The Dodgers are already playing with house money when it comes to Ohtani. He's already a bargain at present value $461mm.

Why not let him pitch if that's what he and the global Dodgers / baseball fan base wants? If he blows out his elbow and is out for a year, the Dodgers can say they at least tried. If they don't let him pitch and force him into a DH role, it's very franchise value destroying on so many levels.

Lucas00 06-15-2025 02:54 AM
Just saw Ohtanis 250th homer.. Looked and sounded like a deep fly AT BEST. How he pulled a very outside pitch with such a "weak" swing on a curveball 384ft is unreal.

https://youtu.be/2FBhWdUU_BM

bk400 06-15-2025 02:59 AM
Yeah, I saw that also. He's a bad bad man, even when he's off. I think The Athletic recently surveyed MLB players and asked which player they wanted to watch the most. Ohtani won in a landslide.

jayshum 06-15-2025 08:40 PM
Ohtani is scheduled to be starting pitcher on Monday against the Padres.

Balticfox 06-16-2025 07:40 AM
"Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED"

I fully disagree!

1. I share the opinion of most MLB players. Sure Ohtani is very good. But he's not 10x or 50x as good as the average player which his salary indicates.

2. His cards are correspondingly overvalued. They're all just pieces of cardboard like any other from the set. Shohei Ohtani and Joe Shlobatnik cards are fundamentally near identical. Why some collectors choose to chase/covet just certain cards from a set and drive their prices to nosebleed levels is beyond me.

:rolleyes:

Balticfox 06-16-2025 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exhibitman (Post 2455690)
Wrong board, my dude. This is a pre-1945 board. Your topic belongs in the post-1980 section of the Postwar Cards area.
While we often disagree, here I'm in full agreement. Yet this thread remains in an entirely inappropriate forum.

:(

Balticfox 06-16-2025 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioCRN (Post 2455861)
Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.
All very nice but entirely irrelevant. The question is about the pricing of his card. And even were I to concede the point that a player's card prices should reflect that player's relative performance on the field (which is a debateable assumption), Ohtani is not 10x or 100x better than the average Dodger. Ask any of his former teammates.

molenick 06-16-2025 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balticfox (Post 2522075)
"Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED"

2. His cards are correspondingly overvalued. They're all just pieces of cardboard like any other from the set. Shohei Ohtani and Joe Shlobatnik cards are fundamentally near identical. Why some collectors choose to chase/covet just certain cards from a set and drive their prices to nosebleed levels is beyond me.

:rolleyes:
I essentially agree with this, when you get right down to it, it makes no sense. Based on the raw material involved, almost all baseball cards have equal value, which is next to nothing.

But coveting certain cards is the basis of pricing for the entire hobby, not just Shohei Ohtani cards. Why does Babe Ruth cost more than Marv Throneberry? Why does T208 cost more than T207? Why does PSA 8 cost more than PSA 7? Why does the first card of a player cost more than the last card?

Hobby pricing is just supply and demand and right now there is high demand for Ohtani cards. Whether that demand will continue and thus maintain his card prices is unknown.

[By the way, don't stop too long to think about why we pay money for cardboard. If everyone does this, the entire hobby will collapse!]

Balticfox 06-16-2025 09:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by molenick (Post 2522113)
But coveting certain cards is the basis of pricing for the entire hobby, not just Shohei Ohtani cards. Why does Babe Ruth cost more than Marv Throneberry? Why does T208 cost more than T207? Why does PSA 8 cost more than PSA 7? Why does the first card of a player cost more than the last card?
I put the extreme range down to silliness. That though is because I'm not among the fortunate few for whom money is no object. I have to weigh the relative "merits" of any purchase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by molenick (Post 2522113)
Hobby pricing is just supply and demand and right now there is high demand for Ohtani cards. Whether that demand will continue and thus maintain his card prices is unknown.

[By the way, don't stop too long to think about why we pay money for cardboard. If everyone does this, the entire hobby will collapse!]
I long ago realized that my collecting is a compulsion, an addiction even. I keep telling myself that it's better (less pathetic) than being a smoker, alcoholic or drug addict but I may just be rationalizing and thus fooling myself.

:(

molenick 06-16-2025 12:45 PM
I know...every now and then I ask myself why I would rather have this card than the money I spend on it that could go towards literally anything else in the world *...and then I buy the card anyway.

And, yes, obviously we all know why certain cards cost a lot of money...it is the wide disparity in pricing that sometimes makes you go "woah".

* not "anything" but you get my drift


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