Dow will go up today 3/24/2020

i guess sell you cards today...

Since wrestling is fixed, how do you define "best wrestlers of the last 20 years?"

When I was a kid in Minnesota, Verne Gagne was considered the top wrestler. Every match ran the same script - he started off hot, then it looked like he would lose, but suddenly he came back to life and won.

Then there was Mad Dog Vachon, Larry Hennig, The Crusher, and others, who could never beat Verne, but who would win sometimes if wrestling against each other.

And then, the sad story of Kenny Jay, who was the Terry Felton of wrestling. Rumor had it that he actually won once, but I have my doubts.

Point is, when it's scripted and the winners are decided beforehand (as was confirmed for me by a former pro wrestler, Wolf Terminator) how do you define greatness? Maybe if they'd been honest matches, Kenny Jay may have beaten Verne a few times.

This is an interesting question. Vern Gagne ran a wrestling training school during the time you mention and three long term top talents came out of there that I will use to answer this question. All three of these men trained at the same time and have much different talents that they used to build their careers. My wife has taken an interest in the balet and in many ways you can compare professional wrestling to it. You need athleticism, stamina, looks, acting skills, and charisma.

Ric Flair was a big guy when he entered Gagne's training program and because of the rigorous training schedule slimmed down to a more athletic build of around 240. He was still a very big guy but certainly not the size of many of the giant's of wrestling. Flair went on to have a lengthy career and arguably one of the best. Why? He was tremendous in the ring. One of his best skills was selling the other performers offense and making the fans believe he was going to lose only to come back and some how pull off the victory. He had tremendous charisma and was one of the best talkers ever on the microphone. His promos are legendary and are still recited to this day. He won the world title 16 times and yes he was chosen to win but he was chosen to win because he was reliable and he was a draw and his work rate was second to none. He could wrestle a legit six minutes in the ring and for anyone who does cardio it is mind boggling how tremendous of shape you have to be in to do that.

Next we have the Iron Sheik. He was a legit wrestler from Iran who competed at top levels and was known as a shooter. A shooter is a legit wrestler/fighter who if they decide they do not want to go with the story line they can have their way with the other wrestler. For most of his career he was a bad guy and his role was to incite the fans and in many cases make the good guys look better and sell tickets. By being billed from his home land of Iran he generated heat and was very believable in the ring. As legend has it Vern Gagne offered him 100k in 1984 when he faced Hulk Hogan in Vince Mcmahon's WWF for their heavyweight title to break Hogan's leg and not go along with the predetermined finish that would see Hogan take the title. Not all wrestlers are trained like this and in a real life street fight while Hogan is dramatically larger he would be no match at the time for the likes of the Iron Sheik.

Finally we have Ken Patera. A legit strong man and Olympic competitor who for a time was the worlds strongest man. He had a look that you just simply can't recreate. I have had the good fortune to get to work with him a few times in recent years at some wrestling conventions and he has the largest forearms even in his 70's I have ever seen on a human. In many ways wrestling was like the circus. They had something for everyone. Ken was a sight to be seen and was so strong that even though wrestling was thought to be scripted it was believable that he could over power anyone he wanted. In the late 70's he took on a more slimmed down body builder look and was easily one of the best bad guys in wrestling. He was never the best in ring performer but he was excellent at getting the crowd riled up and with his look and over all athleticism he helped create the appearance of a more legitimate contest.

Wrestling was thought to be a fixed sport but it wasn't confirmed until Vince McMahon decided to no longer employ the state athletic commission and declare it was indeed a predetermined sport. Randy Orton has wrestled during this time and he has had a tremendous career. Yes the WWE has to put him in the spots he is in but the only way to get those spots and to maintain those spots is to stay healthy and put on a great performance. He is in tremendous condition, has a great look, is excellent on the microphone, can wrestle as a face or heal and is naturally a better heal, and is a great in ring performer. For anyone who has watched wrestling for a long time there are some performers that can make the moves look tight and as real as possible and there are others where it is painfully obvious they are not hurting their foe. For this he is easily one of the best talents in the past twenty years and will be thought of longer term as one of the best from his era.

My son and I attend at least 4 WWE events a year. I grew up watching it. My kid watches it. The athleticism rivals any other "professional" sport.

What makes a wrestling talent great is usually how they connect with the audience on the microphone. Then telling the in ring story via their performance on the mat.

It's similar to what makes a movie start great. Same qualities.

Look at the "Rock" Dwayne Johnson. He is a wrestling "great".

Didn't say don't watch those 2, said don't watch "too much" of those 2. I actually watch all 3, including Fox. I don't watch just one or exclude one like you. I watch all 3, I find that is best if you want to get a more accurate whole picture. You watch too much of any one of the 3 and they'll brainwash ya.

Dow bounced back big. NICE!!!! Of course could lose all that by the end of the week, who knows, let's hope not. Most likely will stay a roller coaster for a long while.

But today was nice, let's enjoy that in these bleak times!!!!

Like Cuomo said "This is war".

And like Trump says ya can't shut it down forever. Jobs and lives are at stake either way. The President has a tough job. He may be an ass at times, but he is our President and doing the best he can.

Every American needs to do something. You can't stay inside and shield yourself from the world for 6 months, a year, however long. Everyone does that WE fail.

The healthy MUST return to work soon, real soon. You are fighting for your 401K, you are fighting for your retirement, your kids college funds, you are fighting for the small businesses and for the workers who need jobs and have families, so you are fighting for the children of America. So take a little risk and get in the game baby!

And any conversation that involves the likes of Kenny J, Ken Patera, and Cowboy Bob Orton (prefer pops to the boy), love it!!!!

Remember when Patera and Saito wanted some McDonalds one night in Milwaukee, great story! Look it up.

Well if the true number is "much much" larger then that, which I'd agree with you, then the death rate is much much lower then they are showing. So that actually is good news.

I truly hope that the US death rate sets a new low. However, you have to remember that there is a time period between catching the disease, showing symptoms, and recovering or not. A year from now we will know what the true fatality rate was. All the 40,000 number showed was that very few people were being tested. Governor Cuomo said that N.Y. State cases will double every three days. NY is a hot spot. How many of those kids who packed onto beaches in Florida for spring break came from the N.Y. area? Now cases in Florida are growing by 20% a day. It goes on like this. Hopefully, self isolation and increased testing slows the spread down, but that will only work if people follow directions.

hard to get the death rate when there is not a correct denominator. Let's hope testing improves so that we know what we are truly dealing with.

Shoeless Moe

You don't ask Patera about that situation! He has no filter and can get upset quick and that is something that is off limits!

Anyone who thinks we can shut the economy down for months is delusional. There isn't enough money in the world to keep the economy afloat.

It will be early April to mid April is my bet.

There is a loser on the CU boards that is saying PSA will be shut down until September. If that happens they run the risk of going under. We can't destroy the entire economy globally and send ourselves into a global depression. Thankfully our president realizes this.

If we get people back to work soon there is a very real chance a V shaped recovery can happen. I stopped at 7-11 to get some gas, a Sierra Nevada 16oz and a bag of wasabi almonds and I had to use my calculator to determine how much gas to buy. It was down over $8 a tank. This is real stimulus for joe six pack.

This was a serious bounce in the market today and the vix hit levels that every single time in history it has you have made money 12 months out on the market. The level of negativity is incredible and I am a contrarian by nature and this to me is a great sign. The number of arm chair economists is off the charts and that is a good sign. Time will tell.

Let's hope PSA shuts down for good.

They're a fraudulent company that sold services they did not deliver on.

Will it happen? Most likely not.

I'm more like five or ten out. It was a bitch, but it would have been worse if the Dow had been languishing around $10K when this all started.

You pulled all that out of my little comment, wow! I was just trying to get the thread back on topic a little. As for Fox, I used to watch it a lot for the reasons you suggest, but since it became a 24/7 propaganda arm of the administration, I don't have the stomach for it anymore.

Yeah, Hanky Boy gets his 'news' (notice the air quotes, moron?) from CNN, Comedy News Network. Just another liberal douchebag spewing his pathetic politics on the site, and Leon just lets him.

Meanwhile others get infractions for, and I quote "acting weird"

Unemployment numbers come in tomorrow. I'd imagine that we see some of the highest levels of jobless claims in American history.

To stay on topic, I listed a few hundred auctions ending over the next few days. I hope that people staying home means more online shopping. I guess we'll see.

Childish name-calling is always so attractive, isn't it? I'm sure you've impressed many here. You might have read the thread for some context, too, but that would have taken a little effort and not as much fun as uninformed insults.

Not trying to throw gas on the fire here, but no amount of context is going to make your comment any less political and you know that's not allowed here. Just sayin.

Go back into the thread and see what I was responding to. In fact, go back a little further and notice I tried to bring Leon into this precisely because it was taking a political turn. It continued, so I responded.

Everyone has a political leaning and considering the state of our country - those leanings are greatly exasperated - causing each side to dig in.

Please leave it out - allow the site to be about cards - it gives those of us who need a break, a much needed break.

...And now, back to your regularly scheduled program

Leon, I thought political talk was not allowed. Why is JollyElm allowed to post this?

+1
 

Bit over the top, no??

The way I see it we are all friends here. If you want to talk about politics or religion, you should do it in a respectful way. Just my .02. Rob

I've avoided this thread for weeks, but I feel the entire thread should be moved or deleted.

Hanky Boy loves spewing his political crap, and Leon always allows it. Never a problem. Just Like Peter Ullman spews his anti-Trump crap and Leon allows it, but you think I'm the one creating the problem???? Jesus Christ. Either it's no politics, or it's full-on politics, because I would love discussing the rabid socialist or the old guy who doesn't know where he is half the time that those two ridiculous people are going to vote for in November. They want to talk politics, then bring it the eff on. If Leon allows them to continue with their crap, then he better open the door for me and the untold numbers of people on this site who want to tell that pair of mental midgets to go f_ck themselves.

Infraction for Darren for going overboard.
It seemed there was a little tit for tat, here and there, but lets do keep politics out per the rules. The virus isn't political. It attacks everyone.
Anymore political comments in this thread will be dealt with and member(s) will be reprimanded.


.

unemployment
 

3.2 million NEW unemployment claims this week.

As far as cards go, I sell low end cards in my eBay store. January and February were my best months ever. Even with the first week of March being really good for sales, so far in March my sales are down 55%. With 1200 items for sale, mostly BIN's with best offers, I went 2 full days without selling anything. Didn't even get any offers.

I don't care one bit about the $35,000 PSA 10 Kobe Bryant market. But, for the most part, the types of people that buy my low end cards are the ones who have lost their jobs and it is affecting my sales. Many people are scared and they are hanging on to their money.

The market and hobby run on the lower end and ungraded cards. It's not detected by PWCC numbers or SMR, but rather a pulse and common sense. High sales of low pop high grade or trending players does not indicate a strong trading card market for several reasons, but one of the main ones is that the sample size is too small and open to fraudulent sales data.

It's true that one of these "monster" grades (PSA 9 or 10 Gretzky OPC RC, for example) can help bump lower PSA grade values - even if the data is fraudulent.

There are almost 6,200 PSA grades for this card and only 90 are PSA 9 or 10.

That's about 1.5% of all the other grades and can easily be controlled and manipulated by auction houses as we've seen in texts like "bid xxx amount I promise you will not win" - the data simply cannot be trusted. The lower graded cards reflect a more accurate picture because it is much more difficult to manipulate the other 6,000+ cards within the market.

I bought a PSA 4 Gretzky OPC RC the other night for $600 USD ($520 after eBay Bucks offer and a $50 coupon code). I would NOT have bought this card if it were not for the offers and I feel like it was a fair deal.

Other Gretzky cards are sitting and not performing well at the moment. Too many BIN with high prices. Market is flooding. People are selling, and prices will go down to more realistic "fair" prices.

The dopey buyers are broke and out of work already. I'm shocked.;)

Far and away the best post in this thread.

Especially the guy who thinks we should beat this virus like we beat “the Japs” and anyone who thinks it’s acceptable to sacrifice 1-2% of our population because they’re “playing in overtime”. Such people lack any semblance of empathy or humanity.

We've had our disagreements in the past, but I am 100% on board with your thoughts here Geordie.

So people who have smaller budgets and can't afford to drop 5 figures on a card are "dopey" now? Nice to know Chuck.

Trumps NOT orange??

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lieutenant Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know -- that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives; and my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall -- you need me on that wall.

We use words like "honor," "code," "loyalty." We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather that you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand the post. Either way, I don't give a DAMN what you think you're entitled to!"

Biggest 3 day run in history, despite the 3 million jobless.


Dont tread on me

I liked Five Easy Pieces and One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest better.

The T206's I have on my ebay watchlist tonight are already at levels that are more than I'm willing to bid. Tangible assets, I guess.

That’s a movie; this is real life.

Tomorrow could be the largest loss in history also. No way to predict what will happen but one thing I have observed is that in times of high volatility you don't want to try and be a hero. When thinking of jumping in it often pays to forego 10% of upside to avoid 30% on the downside. I'd wait until vol dampens and the crisis abates before putting new money to work. With all the talk of getting back to normal in 2.5 weeks I would think if that can't be met the markets will suffer. Just my opinion.

Movies
 

You watch too many movies. What will you say when it is your mother or grandmother who is dying alone in a hospital room? What movie will you quote then?

Guessing Star Trek?

" The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"


..."or the one"

Ted--Don't minimize the number. Latest estimates say ending social distancing early could add 600,000 deaths to the US total.

Lighten up Francis

Who CNN?

Didn't they have Hillary as a shoo-in in 2016?

Probably Old Yeller

Mickey thinks this thread needs a card.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...1c7e603380.jpg

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Good idea
 

At a card show last year with 4 of my grandsons. We went to a show in early February of this year and I am hopeful that we will be able to get to a couple more later this year.

Thank you for posting that! Collecting at its purest. The next generation of collectors, which is exactly what is needed.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

So Shoeless Moe, when are you going to stop living in fear?

May I suggest you stop YOUR fearmongering.

No, we can’t, but we CAN try to save as many as possible, despite your fearmongering about the economy.

More fearmongering based on what?
Yet more fearmongering.

You do realize that the economy will bounce back, right?

Do you also realize that the people you want to so callously sacrifice include the ones who fought WWII? What, now they are to sacrifice their life so you don’t have to sacrifice anything? They may be the greatest generation, I may be the baby boomer generation, but you are the heartless, soulless, greedy generation.

My dad will be 90 in a few weeks. He served in the Air Force for 26 years. I don’t think he needs to be sacrificed for YOUR or anyone else’s financial benefit. My wife and I are 65+. She has asthma. I don’t think either of us should be sacrificed for YOUR or anyone else’s financial benefit. I don’t think anyone should be sacrificed for YOUR financial benefit.

So, from me, my wife, my dad, and everyone else you want to sacrifice for YOUR financial benefit let me say to you and to everyone who thinks like you, in the immortal words of the great Mickey Mantle,

Some thoughts and observations
 

1) I am an Ebay seller. Had been ramping up my listings since early December. I offer items in a wide price range ($10-$4000). While I only have in the neighborhood of 300 listings, I have only made a single sale ($6) in the last week. I was selling multiple items per week prior. Looking at the microcosm of my sales, would indicate less people are buying.

2) As I understand my sales for a multitude of variables may not be an indicator of the larger marketplace I did an Ebay "sold items" lookup for the Word Clemente - It was general enough to include over 100 sales per day and a range of price points. I looked at the period from March 5th to March 25th. Week 1 - 1080 items sold. Week 2 - 1069 and Week 3 - 1121. Probably would be relevant to go back a bit further, but from those numbers it appears little has changed.

3) My "common sense" brain thinks that people with smaller card/collectible budgets will likely be more economically affected by the current events and would logically be spending less on collectibles. Where those with larger collecting budgets not so much (exceptions to both understood). Though as pointed out (possibly earlier in this thread) people have A LOT less choices of things to spend money on for entertainment and possibly have diverted some of that spending to their hobby.

4) I have tracked a number of lots in both Ebay and some off Ebay auctions - Almost all the items I tracked seemed to land at pre corona virus fair market value.

5) Regarding the sensitive risk/benefit analysis question - I am glad I am not a leader needing to make some of the difficult decisions that need to be made. Many prescription drugs kill a very small percentage of the people that use them while helping a large majority. The flu and many other illnesses kill a number of people afflicted with them. There are chemical inputs in foods, drugs and cosmetics that contribute to the deaths of a percentage of people who ingest them. When we go to war it is a foregone conclusion people will die (THANK YOU to all the veterans who have served to protect my freedoms). The longer the economy is stalled, the greater the risk of death becomes as a result. In each of those cases it is the "few" sacrificing their lives for the "many". "Risk/benefit" decisions have been made for years where lives are knowingly sacrificed for what is understood by the decision makers as "the greater good". If the economic shutdown was necessary to save 1 life - should it be done? What if that life were yours? A loved one? 10 lives? 100, 1000, 10000? I'm still struggling to find my answer to this question - for me - for today - it shouldn't happen for 1 life (even if it were mine or a loved one), but I don't know where I draw the line. This is the question our leaders need to grapple with and answer now. Godspeed that they make some good decisions.

++++1000

AustinMike:

https://media2.giphy.com/media/jShr8wkP38XTO/giphy.gif

Market madness affecting card sales, not as much


Jobless shut down madness, more likely to affect card sales.


As the old adage goes: a young man has a broken leg on floor #13 of the hospital. On that floor are 5 elderly patients, one of which needs a heart, 2 need kidneys, one a liver, and one lungs. Does anyone sacrifice the young man when he can save 5 lives? Yet this same decision is made, I'd wager more than a few hundred times a day.

Oh and the 52 high number you bought when you need 96 more, could have been medication for one person having Leprosy. One of the most debilitating diseases in the world.

Let's hope this was an overreaction, and CV runs it course swiftly. Although our options may differ, we can unite to shelter in place, and not spread this virus as directed.

I'm following a few local Covid19 Facebook groups and there are people -hourly- begging for food, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, and worried about rent and other bills.

On the card side of things (aka, not very important side of things) the cards that I follow, and have followed for decades, are taking a hit and the key cards are finally selling for what they're actually worth. As I mentioned earlier, I bought an OPC Gretzky rookie PSA 4 for $520 after eBay rebates (BIN was $700) and one with similar eye-appeal sold for $521 at auction a few hours ago. That's the true price, but you see tons of BIN for higher prices and those will come down. PWCC's 1979 Hockey took a MAJOR MAJOR hit last night when PSA 9s sold for $5.50! and most at astronomically lower prices than the past. Even the Gretzky rookies did not perform great. I would have loved to get in on that - but PWCC is a hotspot for fraud and I'd rather pay more and support a collector than PWCC.

I was reading an article yesterday that talked about how most married couples in the world have never been alone together for more that 2 weeks at a time in all the time they've known each other. It talked about how the quarantining is like a global social experiment that will test the resolve of millions of relationships. Looks like this board is no exception.

That took of time & thinking on your part, I'll give you that, we all have some extra time, me too. You like to make assumptions, well maybe I should as well. You are probably retired, have a decent savings and enjoying your retirement. Must be nice.

And how you spin it, very creative. Like I said I WANT some to die. Not even close. I said LIKE WAR some will die, it's inevitable. Maybe pay more attention to what I said rather then working on your little witty comebacks. If you can prevent deaths let's here your idea? Shut America down for what 6 months? a year? 2 years? That will solve everything and cause no other problems right?

How many deaths will that create from suicides, drinking & drug problems, domestic abuse rising, rise in crime, rioting and looting which will come if people arn't at work, and unemployed for months. Not to mention countless lives ruined. So while I may not be on the popular "hey lets pat this guy on the back he said everything politically correct" side. I'm in the real world Pal.

Yet you spin it as MY financial game, such an idiot. And a small closed minded one at that, and those minions who blindly applaud you. Too dense to think about the larger picture that could be.

Probably all criticizing Trump, yet no solutions given. You can't have healthy people out of work for too long bottom line. You have your nest egg I'm sure and are probably retired and can wait this out until the end of time, but the vast majority can not, which shows I care more about people then you. 20-30% unemployed. You are good with that? You need to think about that.

Everyone needs to get back to work sooner then later..............

i am not willing to sacrifice 1% of our population so assholes like you aren't bored or losing money in the market. I would say worse but telling you how i really feel about you and your statement isn't allowed here. Now i know why i hear you are the most blocked poster over here. you add nothing and are a total asshole. Time to block my first person congratulations that takes work.

This

Where is this most blocked list you speak of? I'd like to check that out.

Forgot about the blocking option. Thanks for the reminder! [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

That

and let's not forget the U.K.'s original plan, not mine mind you, but the U.K.'s was to have everyone get the virus to then build immunity to it, and yes that would certainly cost lives.

Probably not the best idea, but........hey we all have ideas.

Those choosing to condemn mine have not once given theirs, which I find interesting.

Easy to not get criticized when your posts are just like CNN: bashing, yet not offering any ideas solutions, just putting those down who do. That's fine. It's what you do, I get it.

Played a lot a hockey back in the day, was a bit of an instigator, so quite used to getting a beating.....but gave them as well, so tread lightly.

Paul
 

Paul, you talk a lot about wars. Are you a veteran? I doubt it.

The Marines don't say "let's leave our wounded behind so we can be safe". They say "No Marine gets left behind". That is what we need to continue doing. Making sure that our elderly and disabled and sick don't get left behind.

No, but I've seen Stripes at least 20 times.

And I get it. Nobody WANTS anyone to die, including me. Ya'll are missing the point. These deaths are inevitable. People will die from this. Accept it.

I have a female 1st cousin she is a nurse in Chicago, correction actually she volunteered as she's in the medical field, but wasn't at a hospital, but volunteered and is working in one through all this.

There needs to be a plan for the greater good. Which involves getting America back to work ASAP.

Still only getting criticism instead of suggestions/ideas. Would love to hear it.

oh and back to your question about me serving. Unfortunately I could not serve, I had a stutter.

Gets you out of serving, who knew.

I would share it but I am probably on it so nobody has shared it with me.:(

and Mikey don't be so sure on this if America shuts down for 6, 12 months. You made your comments after a few good days of the Market.

Now everyone is like phew, at least the economy while taking a hit won't fall apart completely.

WRONG!!! It could very well continue to sink lower and lower if we choose the shut it down for too long.

This is a WAR. War on the virus and in wars you lose lives, now I can say the politically correct thing and say every life matters, if we lose just one its too many. Everyone says yay, pats on the back, Sorry folks how many wars do you lose 1 life?

We are gonna lose a shit ton.

The President has a tremendously (even insanely) tough job balancing this. And all you f-cks who criticize him on this, let's hear your plan?

and on a baseball note which we should bring this back to.

Anyone else here the possibility of MLB starting end of MAY.

Now that would be something. Empty stands or not, I'm all for it.

PLAY BALL!!!!!! NO FEAR!!!!!!

Is there a reason the president isn't enforcing the defense production act? He goes on a tirade against GM today because the they admit they can't produce and at a higher than expected cost.

Would this be some kind of demerit...or tarnish on his precious legacy?

Oh and check out this sports card!

How would you like to have the seat next to him on a plane, back in the day.

nooooooo thx!

If drinking was a sport Andre would be the greatest of all time.

That is obviously my card and it isn't going down in value.

Here is a sports card for you. I have a similar situation with Tyson rookies.

I gotta get me one of them tyson rookies!!!

Italian version? Better soak that in bleach!

Yes I have mostly Italian backs. I have this 10, 5 PSA 9's and an 8. I want to upgrade my UK back that is an 8 at some point to a 10 when I can. I still have one raw beater I was planning on getting sighed. At one point I had quite a few more but sold some along the way.

Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion on this sticker.

The Italian back is from 1986 and the UK back is from 87. Many are mislabeled so you have to make sure you get a back scan.

Paul,

We have the most cases in the world. The virus started in a country that is 3-4 times our size, with a much higher population density, that is poorer than us, and that has a less advanced medical infrastructure - and yet they had fewer cases and fewer deaths. They also didn't have it spread across their entire country like we have. And they have recovered and are getting back to work after a relatively short period - one that is guaranteed to be shorter than ours. Those are just the facts.

So explain to me ... what of Trump's response has been good?

Yes, I expect we will outperform Italy in our response, but Korea, Japan, China ... heck even Iran have all handled the situation better than America has. At best you can say ... our response has not been impressive.

Frankly, every American owes Rudy Gobert a debt of thanks. Imagine how insanely bad this would be now if he wasn't an idiot that forced the NBA (and NHL, soccer, etc.) to take action. Imagine the wide spread devastation that would have occurred because of the NCAA tournament. People flying in from all around the country to multiple locations. Congregating in huge crowds. Going to hotels and restaurants.

Our sports and business leaders have provided the correct leadership and response to this crisis ... not our federal government ... unlike China, Korea, Japan, etc.

Hopefully, our sports and business leaders continue to make the tough, but necessary choices, no matter what our political leaders say.
Patrick

I won’t add to the arguement, but I will say if you have not seen the documentary (ESPN I think) on the life of Andre the Giant you are doing ourself a disservice. It’s one of the best I have ever seen related to sports. Plenty of time to watch now too.

This thread, which was intended to be about the stock market's effect on card values, has gone to total shit.

Leon, can one block an entire thread? (only kind of kidding)

Seconded, at minimum water cooler

First - Andre's story is an amazing one, definitely check it out.

OK, so finally someone brings something to the table other then "you're an idiot, your an a--hole." I've been hearing that for years, come up with something more clever folks.

Ok, great point on the NBA, just amazing that all this shutdown stuff started with that. But I didn't hear CNN calling for a massive shutdown before this or anyone really, so hard to blame the President. Think about it, was he supposed to close the country while the idiot Democrats were wasting time impeaching him. Maybe had they not done all that BS he would have had more time to focus on this.

So before you or CNN or any Demo's throw stones. Maybe instead of their non-stop pouting and attacking the President they could have used their platform for good, but they didn't, they don't and they won't.

I compare the Democrats to a team that lost a game and didn't want to shake the hands of the opponent, and then complained about their opponent and whined (for 4 years mind you) instead of saying hey what could we have done better. Now because they didn't do that they don't even have a candidate who can beat Trump. They outstupided themselves.

And I'm not a Republican. So don't take this as a Republican's view of thing. I'm in the middle, like a little of both sides, dislike some of both sides. I even liked Obama, he too though made some mistakes, but overall not a bad job, and I loved his yearly NCAA picks. And I'd even go so far to say Obama is probably the better person then Trump, and even more Presidential, but Trump knocked it out of park on the economy/stock market/lowest unemployment/trade deal with China. Crisis aside as no one could have seen this coming. But he honestly will probably be the best to get the economy back when this is all said and done, and I like Biden too, but if you have been watching him lately, sorry he's just not the best person for the job. If he was 5-10 years younger, I might even say Biden over Trump, but and sadly he's just past his prime. Real good guy though.

And mind you this is what makes me a tremendous umpire during baseball season. EVERY coach says it and many fans compliment me. And that's no easy task if you've been to a youth baseball game. I take neither side, and if a pitcher or batter shows me up, I don't punish them by making the next call against them. I call it like I see it. If I blow a call, I will get both coaches together and say I blew that call, lets fix it. I don't get stubborn and say my call stands. Had I umped that Tigers game I would have fixed that call (before replay mind you) and that pitcher would have his perfect game. So some background and trying to keep this baseball related too.

So last to your question what President Trump has done right, and yes he can be an ass to some reporters and in the past to females, and at times says the wrong thing. Get over it. Who is perfect? Cast the first stone.

What he has done in this unprecedented nightmare of a situation is keep the economy afloat. He's getting money to Americans who need it to pay bills & get by until this is over, increasing/extending unemployment. Getting money to businesses. All the while balancing it with the social distancing, which is a stupid name mind you, it should be called physical distancing, but that's another error on the media. E1. He's getting all this sh-t done working with 50 States and Governors, each wanting the very most for their state, and that is no easy task. Getting ventilators built, hospitals built, ships coming in. AND He's not afraid to get some back to work as he knows how important it is to the bigger picture which CNN will NOT mention. What could come of a 3, 6, 12 month or more shutdown. Yes he's made some mistakes, but seriously who wouldn't in this mess of a situation.