Not at all. I am pointing out context. The fact that other auction houses don't guarantee their grade, which the OP kept alluding to, really is beside the point here.

If (just to use a perhaps imperfect analogy, and only for illustration) Bernie Madoff's son with no experience was offering you an investment opportunity -- indeed the same one his father previously tried to sell you -- you're going to hold him to a higher standard than a venture capitalist with a 20 year track record with whom you are familiar.

And that's all I am saying here -- the situation calls for caution -- and I am not sure the OP fully understands why so many of us are saying that. It's not an attack, it's not personal, it's just common sense.

One issue that I see here that has not been brought up it that many of these high dollar cards have been sold by battlefield and war_eagle on eBay more than one time. They were returned for refunds because they weren't as described. Was that because of photoshopped scans or because the cards had been altered in some way. I would bet that many of the high dollar cards were in slabs when the parents bought them.
James

I do understand all of your posts in this thread. Because of my life experiences I judge people on their own actions. Yes that silly way of thinking has got me burnt before. I would still rather give many scum the benefit of doubt rather that talk crap about 1 innocent person no matter who they are related to.

I can see many legit reasons they are selling their parents old inventory. At some point in time I will have to do the same thing with all the junk my dad has acquired. I can guarantee he is much worse than a couple selling some baseball cards listed improperly.

I will end this by saying if they do turn out to be scum I will be pilling it on them as much as anybody else. Just read some of my posts I am not afraid to call out the scum in this hobby even though it has come close to getting me kicked off this wonderful forum a few times.

PSA 11. Just wait. It's coming.

Those PSA 11 cards as known as "Pristine Gem Mint" I have one in my collection. Custom made of course.:D

I don't know about that...I just searched their mother on facebook. She works for an accounting firm in Dothan, Alabama. Does anyone really think they're not close with their parents? This is the same wolf with new sheep clothing.

Ben I understand your sentiments and generally agree. I just think under the circumstances the merchandise should be presented with having made every attempt ( including TPG and high quality scans and descriptions) to fully disclose the quality and condition of the cards. The cards came from a corrupt organization and we should certainly demand clarity

Let’s hear from all those who judged war eagle independently of battlefield, despite having essentially the same inventory and modus operandi.
Granted the venue is different now, but sometimes a leap of faith is off a cliff.:eek:

Coach's Corner is still in business. Shady businesses can keep operating seemingly forever I suppose as long as they offer returns. Battlefield was operating for how long on ebay without any repercussion? War Eagle was the same outfit. I personally believe this family has just decided to go independent and cut out the middleman (ebay).

The issue isn’t that they are apparently selling their parents’ inventory - it is that they appear to be using very similar (much critised) techniques that, prima facile, would make limited sense to an objective bystander.

I see what you're saying, but one positive aspect of a lengthy thread like this is that whenever someone out there gets curious and does a google search for "Candiman Auctions", this thread will pop up as one of the first results. From there they can form their own opinion.

Great find Dan. I was under the impression she had past away from all the posts on this forum saying she did. This was from about a year and a half ago. The rumors being posted on here was that when she past away their ebay account went from battlefield to war eagle. It was also posted that Carols husband and daughter run the new account.

I was basing my give them a chance on the information that the mother had past. Giving me the impression that maybe there was a legit reason the boys ended up with it to sell off. Now not 100% sure what to think.:confused:

we should all "friend" her!

How does this RH Mantle "appear"?

The raw 1953 Topps Mantle appears as if there is a possible pinhole near the top center - not sure if it was photoshopped out

His teeth are too white.

psa 5.5

Pinhole
 

Top looks photoshopped:

https://i.imgur.com/2lwxGu9.jpg

It "appears" NM-MT

.....but if you want to see one that "is" Mint- here's mine which I can't help showing at every opportunity:)
Attachment 308182

The description says there is a pin hole. I don't see what the issue is with this card

James

I think this thread started in the right direction where a case was pleaded and vetted. Some great points were raised on both sides. Enough to come up with a conclusion about the case one way or another. Let's leave it as that. If this was a water cooler post that whose topic was based on opinions, then let it be such for that setting. But in this case, this is plea for one's business, one's livelihood that affect not only that person but for that person's family. We should respect that and not pile on for the sale of piling on.

This plea is from a family of accountants who earn extra money by screwing over collectors in our hobby. I wouldn't say we're piling on just for the sake of piling on, but rather in hope that the information and opinions shared here might help other collectors from getting screwed over as well. Especially since they will no longer have the eBay and PayPal protections to fall back on.

Please correct to "alleged" Accountants -- has anyone verified that Daniel and Justin attended and were granted degrees from Auburn University yet? :D

No, seriously though, aside from a few wobbles in this thread I think the board is serving its function well -- as the safeguard for folks who really care about the health of the hobby.
Jesse's concerns about reliable recourse for bidders who might be disappointed with their winnings are legitimate, especially in light of an AH with zero track record or existing ties to the community.

The Battles Brothers deserve credit for consistently fighting their corner and not running away, as well as criticism for being evasive regarding their grading and policies regarding raw cards.
Also severe judgment for picking a ridiculous name for their auction house, albeit a very minor transgression in the grand scheme of things ;)

Great post. +1

They have zero track record in the industry or referenced dealings with anyone in the community on their own, despite referring to themselves as lifelong collectors. Their parents' notorious ebay account was recently shut down, closing their avenue to selling altered/photo shopped/misrepresented cards to the collecting community. Now, in a field that has too many auction houses already, a brand new entity arises. And for the lead auction, they offer the questionable inventory of their parents former ebay store. It does not pass the smell test.

And the names? War Eagle, Battlefield, Candiman? Better suited to racehorses than auction houses...

Just one guy's opinion.

Personally, I prefer ‘Love is a Battlefield Auctions’ in honor of the great Pat Benetar❤️

Ahh yes, alleged accountants is more appropriate considering what we know at this point. My point was more a disagreement with Josh that the initial post was a plea for these guy's livelihood. What they really do is irrelevant. The best fraudsters and con men are great at coming up with excuses and justifications that keep there true intentions hidden. I believe that's what we have seen thus far in this thread.

Their silence the last couple of days, as well as their failure to answer several direct questions from different members here tells me all I need to know to form my opinion.

Sellers like these who prey upon less experienced collectors are a big part of what's wrong with this hobby. Not quite as bad as the guys creating fake autographs or putting reprints into real looking psa holders, but pretty close. My hope is that this site gets shut down before too many lose hundreds or thousands of dollars over paying for cards that are either altered or in worse condition that described.

No, I don't think it's alleged. Mom works in an accounting office, and she made a facebook post about Justin graduating in the top 5% of his class at Auburn in accounting. Carol is very religious judging by her facebook posting history, her husband's name is Danny and in not so shocking news his middle name is "Earl" which pretty much cements War Eagle = Battlefield.

Dang, that's a brutal assessment for the crime of being guilty by association. I can't imagine the venom if they actually do something wrong.

Is there concrete evidence that the mother was actually running the Battlefield account? These guys are supposedly selling their parents cards which we all know were riddled with trimmed and other "A" cards. IMO these guys don't get the benefit of the doubt. This is a family operation and I'm convinced of that.

It's the same entity, moved from eBay to candiman auctions. The same family, same inventory, same descriptions. Had they branched out, formed an auction house on their own, and started by selling their own cards and the consignments of others my opinion would be much different. Had they graded battlefield's inventory before selling, at least the star and HOF cards, my opinion would also be different.

I see why you view my assessment as brutal. I am convinced it is accurate. Even if some of you are not.

And just like Battlefield they also don't appear to know that collectors like to see the reverse of a card just as much as they want to see the front.

They may well be sincere and not "guilty" of anything. I certainly would not accuse them of anything at this point. The issue, though, is one of trust vs. risk with one's money in their initial auction. Given the context, in my opinion they had a heavy burden of proof to allay our concerns. And to date, again in my opinion, they have not done so, and indeed to an extent they have fueled those concerns. We'll see how it plays out.

Yes, it was Carol. I had several emails with her as I was the one who gave Battlefield 17 negatives and 5 neutrals in one shot. Having won about 70 cards, and returning about 40, I know exactly how the cards were photoshopped and the lying write-ups. So I am certainly not a shill for their business plan. Those "faults" I could personally deal with since Carol always accepted returns no matter what. That kept her in business for a long time. We all can name several old-time respected dealers who did the same thing, only they did it through catalogs and calling a card Ex when they were Fair at best. Plus there were many bargains to be found as many stayed away. No risk with returns. But to say her cards were riddled with trimmed was not accurate. If so then you need to take it up with REA and Heritage because Her inventory came from buying large lots from there and breaking them up. Thousands of cards were acquired that way, at least in the non-sports side. It wasn't until later that she got greedy and started buying Authentics, cracking them out, then listing as NM.

Candiman Auctions probably shouldn't have started with the old inventory. They need to add better scans, including the backs for anything decent. And they definitely need to stop giving personal grade opinions that are overly generous. Sure, maybe they don't get the benefit of the doubt, but the most recent posts are doing the exact opposite and not giving them the benefit of their own deeds. Maybe you will end up being right, but i don't like to judge people that way.

I still can't believe the post suggesting we call the Attorney Generals Office. By that logic, if they were a minority we could just call the police.

I did laugh out loud at the post calling for someone to call the Alabama AG. I would love to give these guys the benefit of the doubt but they haven’t done anything to warrant it. The timing of this auction house is amazing. I mean they start doing business immediately after mom and pop get booted from eBay. I also find it hard to believe they have 25 other consignors besides mom and dad.

Will anyone here admit to going after a card which has a high likelihood of coming back altered? This thread will be very disappointing if we don't get any first hand accounts after the auction.

I know I'm not the first to propose this idea, but can anyone ever be certain a "Carol" was running Battlefield's eBay sales, and not Daniel or Justin? For all we know they could've been running the whole operation all along using their Mom's email and Paypal accounts.

When you take into consideration everything that has been exposed with their operation: the photshopping of cards, the purposely ambiguous descriptions, the buying of "Authentic" graded cards and selling them raw as simply NM, the creation of a new eBay account (War Eagle) with a fake story behind it, etc., etc. -- how can anyone place any trust in anything these guys say at this point?

Same here. It is a bit odd that nobody ever heard about this auction house until they had a full auction up and running.

In order to get multiple consignors, typically an AH would have to advertise a little bit at shows, or on the forums, or on AuctionReport, or with SPAM emails in order to get consignments.

And therein lies part of the problem with this auction house now existing. At least with eBay you could depend on the feedback system to some extent. Now the Battles basically have full control. Surely they wouldn't shill their own auctions now that the bidding is completely private.

€hû¢k Wölƒ

There are plenty of other cards to buy fellas! The only way you can win here is if good old PSA lets an A card slip through their "rigid" grading system.

Jeez-o-flip, what the heck are you guys smoking?

Really, a couple teenagers decide to start a scamming eBay account and use their Moms ID and name and persona? Then when it comes crashing down years later they go ahead and use their own names?

I can guarantee that the person I dealt with at Battlefield, Carol, was an older lady. Complaining about how she couldn't respond to my emails because her Aunt was sick and had to take her to the hospital and that she had to list more items to feed her family so she didn't see my 4?emails before I ended up giving her 17 negatives to get her attention. IT WAS NOT THE COLLEGE STUDENTS BEING BATTLEfIELD!

And give me the name of 5 Auction Houses that you heard of before they had their first auction?

"Oh yeah, me and Robert Edwards go back 10 years. Used to hang out together and stuff. That was before their first auction of course. We are still tight though"

Pretty sure that Daniel is in his thirties, he was no teenager when Battlefield was doing all that damage.

Fair enough, Eric. Admittedly, I may be making some assumptions, but it's not out of the realm of possibility that 2 young men were selling on eBay as "Carol" all along. I mean, look at their bio from the new website -- they have a lifetime of knowledge:

Candiman Auctions was formed by brothers Daniel and Justin. From a young age the brothers developed a passion for all things sports. From collecting a vast array of sports collectibles to playing various sports, they have gained a lifetime of knowledge of the sports and sports collectibles industry.

Also, who would be more likely to have the ability to photoshop scans to make cards appear better? The parents or two kids in college? Every manipulated scan they used was a direct intent to deceive.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all plays out. This is nothing personal against you, Eric, and I enjoy your posts on the forums here, however it just seems odd that you would play devil's advocate for a seller that has been deceptive on so many different levels in the past.

This also makes zero sense, from Daniel & Justin's first post:

So what do they do to completely disassociate from the Battlefield store and reputation?

Take on their inventory and sell it in their first auction.

...

Peter,

That's all that we're asking for. Wait and see and stop judging us before we have even completed our first auction. Every auction house had to start somewhere. We can't make it happen overnight. For the people who feel skeptical that's perfectly fine. Don't bid in any of our auctions until you feel comfortable in doing so. Time will prove our intentions are good and I'm confident we will end up doing business with a lot of the members of this forum sometime in the future.

Daniel

Dave,

Thank you very much for saying this. That's all we're asking for.

Thanks,

Daniel

Jesse,

That's all we're asking for. If you don't feel comfortable in bidding on our current auction that's perfectly understandable. Please just continue to follow our future auctions. I believe we will have great stuff that will interest many of the people on this forum.

Thanks,

Daniel

David,

Thank you. As I have said I understand that people are skeptical. That is completely fine. If someone isn't comfortable bidding until we get more established that is no problem. But we have to start somewhere. Every auction house did. All we ask is not to be judged before we have even completed our first auction. Please keep following our future auctions and I believe we will end up doing business with many of you in the future.

Thanks,

Daniel

Hi Rick,

I agree we haven't been attacked by everyone on the forum. There have been several nice comments on this thread. Thank you very much for being open minded and not judging us before we have even completed our first auction. And thank you for the information. I appreciate it.

Thanks,

Daniel

Frank,

Thank you for pointing this out. I agree completely.

Daniel

Dave,

Thank you for saying this. We have tried to be respectful of everyone who has posted in this thread. I understand that people are skeptical. That is completely understandable. If someone doesn't feel comfortable bidding in our auctions yet that is fine. All we ask is for the time to prove ourselves. I am very confident we will do so.

Thanks,

Daniel

Ben,

I have yet to find an auction house out there that guarantees this. It's just not possible and there is no auction house now or ever that will be able to make that guarantee.

Daniel

Thank you James. That is clearly in the description.

Daniel

Joshua,

Thank you very much. I couldn't have said it any better.

Thanks,

Daniel

Thank you Eric. I agree 100%.

Daniel

Thank you again Eric. This is a great point.

Daniel

Jason,

Severe judgement for picking a ridiculous name? Last time I checked a person has the right to name their business anything they want. I believe the name is unique and not one that you are going to forget. How that is ridiculous I'll never know...

Daniel

Hey guys,

This will be the last time I am able to post for a while. I will be very busy with the auction ending tomorrow, then packing and shipping, and preparing for our April auction.

I want to thank the many of you who listened to our story. I'm not going to go over everything that has been said. It can all be read from the beginning of the thread up to now. We have done our best to engage with as many people as possible on here and I believe have been respectful to everyone we have engaged with. Despite the harsh criticism, which Leon told me would happen when I spoke with him on the phone, I am glad we got on here and posted our story. We have nothing to hide. We created Candiman Auctions using our names knowing we would be in for an uphill battle. In the end I believe it will all be worth it. We love this hobby and want to be a part of it for years to come. For all of those who are skeptical and not fully comfortable bidding in our auctions yet, I understand. Time will tell the true story and that's something we simply can't attain overnight. We will be running several more auctions this year so please keep a watch out for them. I believe we will have some great items that many will be interested in.

Also, I want to personally thank Leon for speaking with me at length on the phone prior to posting this thread. Leon, I appreciate all of your advice. I hope to speak with you again soon. You are a great ambassador for this hobby and we have great respect for you.

Thanks,

Daniel & Justin

Get your valuable raw cards graded like every other auction house. Especially because you're associated with and are selling the inventory of people who defrauded hobbyists with altered raw cards. It's as simple as this and any sane and honest seller would do so.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

#this

Somehow Daniel neglected to respond on the 55 Mantle?

No video either :(. Appears they only wanted to highlight people giving them a chance.

Based on the bidding, their auction is going to be reasonably successful. They'll easily earn 5-figures at the end of the day. Well done to the board for making all of the necessary points to them.

It just makes me a bit sad to see -- it's one thing for a seller like Kevin Savage to list truly expertly and honestly graded raw cards in an online auction.
It's another to have what looks like cynical and overly-optimistic grading on raw cards, and from sellers in the hobby that nobody really knows.

It's an irresistible temptation to people's worst nature, thinking they are going to get a steal on a raw card.
Even if they never try to grade it, it's the preying on people's hopes and darker greed that really gets me.
We all want great cards for less money, but it's pretty simple -- Graded cards protect buyers.

Whatever. I have every faith the board will hold them accountable if there is a need to.

And there's only one Candyman, Battles bros -- Get it right...
We've got our (one) good eye on you ;)
Attachment 308266

I've been a card dealer for 30 years, buying and selling. I have seen about every possible scam and scheme there is out there. My experience tells me that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it is most likely a duck. I don't deal with ducks.

One of my friends in the card business was a magnet for these scams, counterfeits, fake autographs, etc. He fell for it all. Internet scams didn't stop him from buying the standard counterfeit fare; 52 Mantles, 33 Goudey Ruth's, Gretzky, Jordan, he bought it all. He refunded many people who bought his bad buys. He had a good job in his real life, but couldn't maintain his side job as a card dealer. Just too big a drain. Eventually I bought his inventory because it was cheap enough and had some real cards of value and a ton of supplies. I burned the few remaining counterfeits and Ripken, Jeter, A-Rod bats.

Don't be like my friend, stay away from get something for cheap schemes.

I think this might be a mallard auction.

I am hoping my bids on 37 cards hold up for another 9 1/2 hours.:eek::D

He talks a lot, but only about what he wants to talk about, creating the illusion of responsiveness.

.

Nice! You opted to reply a dozen times last night but only to people who showed neutrality but decided not to even address the subject of the tiny scans you provide? I get that you do not want to touch the use of the word "appears" again.

Unlike several on the board I fully support your decision to not have the cards graded. I think it is a mistake for many reasons but that is your choice if you or your consignors want to leave money on the table as well as not offer the peace of mind to your buyers. If you are not going to take the time and money to get the cards graded then take a stand and issue a definitive grade on a card and put up a large clear scan.

I laughed too. Then I thought.... Haven't they pretty much admitted their parents committed fraud? Perhaps not, but that seems like it would be valuable should the AG want to build a case.

For those of us who value our sleep, at least we will not have stay up for what could be yet another thrilling all-nighter auction.:rolleyes: There’s a silver lining in every thread, as for most of us the battle is assuredly already over.;)

Why would anyone with ANY doubt bid in this auction. It's not like we are running out of auction houses. Every day seems to generate new ones.

Saw what you did there...

If only they were playing on a level playing field. :rolleyes:

wrong thread

Now that would have been a great name for this effort :)

I can't help thinking how it would go down if Candiman became a Net54 advertiser

Don't be a dick.

^^+1^^ Are you trying to get me kicked off here by answering that silly question?:eek::D

Before TPG's
 

Before we all had scanners and eBay and TPG's, you couldn't trust anyone. About 20 years ago I bought my first two prewar cards from Teletrade. The first was an EX T206 Clark Griffith card that came back from PSA as trimmed. The second was a M116 Blue Background that wasn't really a Blue Background.

That ended my purchasing from Teletrade.

Teletrade was insane. That robotic voice on the phone, the frantic phone calls trying to get through close to 10 PM. I did pretty well buying ungraded stuff there, luck of the draw I guess.