Ok, guess my theory was only slightly correct. Let's all go back to the realization that Al is not the antichrist.

Brian

So that's all you got, Al? You're gonna stick with that?:D

You cannot make that shit up!!!! I hope everyone has calmed down, I'm laughing my ass off.

it's official
 

Al WAS the Antichrist but now he isn't anymore.

I feel like I'm living in a Seinfeld episode. Great stuff!

End game...
 

Al did tell me all this today and I am glad that he came out to explain it so quickly and thoroughly because he did a much better job than I could have possibly done.

I have been doing a considerable amount of thinking since this thread was started and I would like to do something to try and get something positive out of this entire ordeal.

My idea is to auction off 9/10 cards for charity here in the BST auction section.
(I'd like to keep the Evers for myself)

I would need three things to make this happen..

1) A charity that we can reach a decent consensus to give the proceeds to.
2) A middleman that is well respected that can deliver the money to the charity.
3) Net54 members opinions on 1/2 and also should this be a new thread or continue here?


So, I understand this is a major shift of gears from where we have been the last few days, but I think this could surely produce positivity as a result of this thread.


Frank

I owe Al an apology.

how about Al?

I would 100% match the total sale if the charity is autism speaks. I do not want to serve as the middleman however. Anyway, good luck

I would suggest maybe the American Cancer Society, as it seems from many of the sadder posts on the board over the years, cancer has claimed too many collectors or their family members.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

I think you should find a charity in CHARLESTON to donate the funds to since that is who PAIGE played for. :)

"I don't crack slabs often, but when I do, I'm drinking Dos Equis.;)"

The Most Interesting Man on the Forum.

I'm thinking Al sent your cabinet guys a check to make up the difference. :)

:rolleyes: After all that drama filled reading, I'm ready for a beer!

I don't know either one of the two, but now i love both Frank and Al. The third gentleman who ruined the Paige card? Not so much. Measure twice, cut once.

As a guy who worked in live theatre for 20 years before getting into the auction business I can avow that Truth is indeed stranger than fiction. At various points in this narrative I have been close to jumping in with accusations and wild uninformed opinions. Basically this story is too convoluted NOT to believe (plus you can check out many of the details in the auction listing) I've never dealt with Al or Frank so I have no skin in the game, no favorite, or buddy I'm protecting, in fact it'd probably behoove me to shit all over Al and LOTG, but I actually believe at this point that the parties to the story (including the two ancillary parties) have all been honest and reasonable.

I said it earlier, we all hate to make mistakes and we really hate when mistakes are made at our expense, but how we deal with those is what shows our character.

I'll leave this thread with a little story. There's an auction house by me that conducts local auctions via internet. Not a card auction, estates, general, closeouts etc... My wife had been looking for a large desk for her office. They had one at an estate closeout that I won for a ridiculously low price. The auction listing read "Desk and contents." I went to pick up the desk and was taking it apart to get it in my van. A lady came in and asked me what I was doing. Apparently she had won an auction for just the contents of the desk. Yep the auction house had listed it twice. The lady in question stormed off to get an employee while I continued to take pieces of the desk to my van (leaving the disputed drawers) The employee came running out to my car and said she discovered their mistake and did I care very much about the contents. I told her "no" and she graciously offered me a 50% refund. I took it as I was "wronged" but it made me very appreciative of their efforts to correct what could've been an ugly situation.

Shit happens. Al screwed up, more than once. If I can read between the lines correctly, he feels like hell about it. Frank got screwed, he was pissed, he got mostly unscrewed and wants to be done with this. He should take the $100 and his cards and evaluate whether or not he thinks it was sufficient recompense for the hassles and if he'll do business with LOTG going forward, but he does seem to accept the story.

If anyone has a conspiracy theory which differs from the narrative offered I'd love to hear it, but it better be pretty damn compelling. As someone who works in the auction world and as a card dealer I am in the middle of granting someone a refund. It happens. I'll go on record as wagering that LOTG doesn't have anything like this go down again for a LOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGG time.


EDIT: Post was written right after Al's explanation. Kudos to Frank for his gesture. I know animal shelters are a big topic on the site from time to time, love my rescued dog, just my 2¢.

Jeff
 

This whole thing is a clusterfuck. I have great respect for the OP.

I enjoy the truth playing out. Jeff, you’re still on retainer.

That's too funny.

Steve,
 

Where the hell have you been. Please offer your common sense opinion. I would guess youre right and hope all is well with you.

I work for the Human Fund and we would love the donation, please make it out to CASH.

What do you think now?

I think that all the truth hasn't been told, but that the OP is too much of a gentleman to keep dragging this out and wants to put it to rest. Want to know what I really think? I'll PM you and tell you.

Please do.

Sadly, David is right. But no one cares, so what's the point.

All I’ve learned from this thread is that 1952boyntoncollector, Orly57, and vintagetoppsguy are total dicks.

Ryan, maybe one day after one of your trips to Cuba where you fleece the poor and steal their cards for pennies, you can come by miami and tell me how you feel about me...in person. It's funny, I point out something shady in the hobby and I'm a dick. You literally steal from the poor. What does that make you?

Fleece the poor? Ha! What an idiot. You know zero about what you’re talking about. No one paid higher prices in Cuba than I did. And I would LOVE to tell you all about it to your face. In Miami or anywhere else, tough guy.

Oh, also, you didn’t point out anything shady going on in the hobby. There wasn’t anything shady. All you did was make yourself look like a dick while trying to damage someone else’s reputation. Dick.

I'm simply not getting into a playground fight with you on the message board. If you want to take this to the pm I'm good with that.

Why don't you lay out all this shady behavior you uncovered. Otherwise, it seems like Ryan pretty much nailed it.

Awesome idea, I would suggest St Judes Children's Hospital as a worthy charity.

First, I wanted to tip my hat to both the OP and the AH. Both were professional and empathetic about what happened and I personally learned some great conflict resolution tactics throughout this thread.

Next, perhaps I could offer a different type of charity. I'm a leadership fellow for Veterans in Media and Entertainment. We work to help train, prepare, and network for military veterans to get jobs throughout the media and entertainment industry as a way to change the image of military veterans from the inside (ie- we aren't all a broken post traumatic mess).

Also, who knows this thread could make a heck of a video one day....as well as many, many, MANY other threads on this forum.

https://www.crowdrise.com/vmeconnect

Thanks for the consideration, I would gladly serve as the middle man or you can even donate directly to the crowdrise website above. Please let me know if you have any questions.

In terms of a charity to donate to I've got a direct connection at the Taylor Hooton Foundation and could safely and easily get the funds to them. I'm part of a project utilizing players from their MLB Advisory Board. More info at the links below:

http://taylorhooton.org/
http://allmeleague.com/all-stars/

Was there a Brown Old Mill Paige in one of those drawers? I think it might belong to me;):D

So he went to break the card out of the new, ironclad PSA holder, and he damaged the card. It looks like this now.

How does this even happen? I've broken out close to 170 cards and have not even come close to doing this once. It's really a shame because that is a beautiful card! When I get back from Texas this weekend, for softball, I'll post a step by step tutorial on how to crack open a slab. With pictures....

and the reason being? I can say comments like that from you make you look like a child though. We all live and die and not sure why you would take the time to make silly comments like that.

Who was i to question waaaay back that the simple return of funds wasn't so simple as it appeared..guess i was wrong..was a very simple transaction...return of proceeds for cards never delivered.(at the time) .thats all that happened i guess in this thread....there were no new developments or explanations needed after that....nothing more involved than that for me to question.......nothing to see here...

I asked the same question. I am only speculating that the now owner of the Paige might have had some pressure applied and the shell just split wide open causing the flat head screwdriver to tear into the card.

Don't forget to keep the tutorial simple. Lots of pictures and few words. Just don't want some people confused and then they damage their cards and come after you for restitution because of their simpleness.

This is a great idea and kind gesture. May I suggest a Crohns and Colitis Foundation for research?

When the OP said mentioned later on that he was getting the cards he purchased and was also generously offered money as well with the cards (this was offered AFTER he received the 11 card lot..i mean 10 card lot) , it wasnt as simple as that. One card was missing from the lot he purchased so it wouldnt be generous to offer him some money plus the cards he purchased in which he was shorted one card.

I questioned the timing of the extra money being offered AFTER the cards were found.

I questioned the extra money given plus the cards and it turns out I was right because he was shorted a card and some money was needed just to make the guy whole. At the time of my questioning nobody knew he was being shorted a card but now you see why i raised the issue.

Well IF the OP said he wasnt getting the entire lot back that would of been nice to know and more of a reason why he was offered additional money. Far be it for me to question things in the beginning.

Don't forget to keep the tutorial simple. Lots of pictures and few words.


Hahaha, will do. It's so simple. 99% of the crack-outs take less than 10 seconds. For real.

The new PSA holders are not 10 second jobs, they are very difficult to open compared to the old ones, or SGC.

Please use a new holder in the demo.

Would someone in the conspiracy crowd please post their reasons why they think Al would keep a low grade lot of T206 cards that clearly DID NOT INCLUDE A BROWN OLD MILL.

Thanks

The new PSA holders are not 10 second jobs, they are very difficult to open compared to the old ones, or SGC. Please use a new holder in the demo.

I have no cards (other than a random T205) in holders. I'm going to use that. But I've recently cracked new holders as well. A little more difficult, but still a 10 second job.

I think the OP should just pick a cause he cares about, but as long as we are making suggestions, Catholic Charities always gets extremely high marks from the watchdog organizations.

Would someone in the "defend Al" crowd please publicly post the private picture they sent me so I can rip this story to shreds?

The matter was dropped last night, Dan. You and others in the "defend Al" crowd want to keep it going with posts like "What do you think now?" or name calling (the dicks comment) or this post that I'm quoting above. The OP is done and I respect that and will drop it too. People are going to believe what they want to believe.

I hope to see Al in White Plains this week and have a 2 or 3 hour discussion about the finer points of all this. I have a few hundred questions.

Only kidding. You guys lost me days ago on this one.

I'd just like to know where Lichtman's Red Circus Shoes ended up (post #92). ;)

Clearly an honest mistake, made right by LOTG. And, a class act move by the OP to suggest the charity auction (which he should just simply pick one he likes).

I've been a bidder and consignor with LOTG since day one. Al is top notch.

1. Ryan bought them on the cheap in Cuba.
2. Al sold them as brown circus shoes.
3. Jake tried to sell them on the BST, then consigned them to PWCC.
4. David cross-examined them for days.

I can't believe Leon doesn't charge for this kind of entertainment!!!

Does someone see a Netflix series about sports card auction follies in all this?

The drama, conspiracies, side track themes, undermining/backstabbing and happy resolutions and possible group hug at the end... priceless!

Or almost like a hockey fight gotten out of hand!:D

All we need now is for someone to recognize one of the other posters as their long lost father they haven't seen in 50 years since he walked out for a pack of cigarettes. Then we call Dr. Phil.

They were all red: laces, swoosh, soles, etc. Bright red patent leather Nike high tops. I almost inquired as to who actually bought them? Who walks around with sneakers like that? And it wasn't like they were kid size, they were freaking huge.

5. Joe Orlando was recently seen wearing them.

Don't give him any ideas, or we may see graded/entombed Air Jordans.

What happened to the picture of the envelope containing the check that was supposed to be posted to help verify Al's story? So we could see the post mark.

One of my basketball teammates in high school wore shoes like that. Our school colors were red and white. The rest of us wore classic Adidas.

I'm going to presume he was the best player on the team or else the rest of you would have given him a beating.

And all this time, I thought Jake's only involvement was to add "GLWS" on the BST of Net54.

Seems like there is something more to the story than documented here...

;)

Hmmm....

The ball is in your court. What do you think now?

zoinks

I think the postmark is dated for the same day this thread was started at 8:30 PM. So I think without question the check was mailed before this thread was started. Unless you know of a post office open that late.

So now please tell me what does Al gain by not sending out a lot of common T206 cards. And I can only think that with you keeping this conspiracy going that you, Orlando and perhaps the OP who is sending you scans of the envelope must think he was getting a brown Old Mill card in that lot.

Edited to add: I didn’t include Jake Lieberman because I’m not even sure he knows what he thinks. What law school allowed that guy to graduate???

But wait just a minite, Dan. In Al's initial response, he said he mailed out the check on Decemver 29th. When you start off with a lie, everything else gets discredited.

SlideKelly
 

Hold up. I posted the scan of the check in the thread. Because that is what I said I would do. If you have something to say about me, at least be right about it.

Frank Horvath

Frank, I apologize, I did not see that you had posted the envelope back upstream where you placed a holder.

The check was mailed from a USPS mailbox. Who knows when that mail got picked up. Either way the check was still mailed before this thread was started. Now please tell me what you think happened. What did Al have to gain?

I am not seeing the conspiracy either, but just to be OCD about it, don't letters get postmarked at the all hours sort facilities and not the local PO? And in any case people at the local PO work long past when the counter closes. And Dan come on, are we really to add to the chain of crazy events here a letter sitting in a mailbox not picked up for 10 days? I guess anything is possible.

Letter
 

Most Post Offices do not cancel or date the mail. The mail is sent to a sorting facility. In the case of my former PO (I am now retired), the sorting facility was 120 miles away. If I mail a letter on the 8th, it will be postmarked on on the 9th. In this case, the 7th was a Sunday. I would guess the letter was mailed on Fri the 5th or Sat the 6th in order for it to receive a postmark on the 8th. It is possible that it was mailed and postmarked on the 8th, but not likely.

I wonder what date is on the check?

Rick

Last night, a board member emailed me a pic - a pic they said would corroborate Al's story. They asked me not to share it publically. Well, I'm a man of integrity and I haven't shared it publically or privately - not even a description of the pic. I kept it totally to myself. Here's the kicker. The pic that was supposed to corroborate Al's story, actually shreds it to pieces.

Post the damn pic and let's end this.

It's funny how so many people came to Al's defense, but the two that could have confirmed everything - the member that got the 10 cards by mistake and the other member that got the OM and damaged it - well we haven't heard from them at all. Nobody else finds that odd?

Again, post the damn pic.

Well just to continue in OCD mode, the check easily could have been backdated so the postmark is more reliable.

Tell me in PM exactly how you’re going to “shred” this story. And the only people who find this story odd are you, Orly and Jake. I don’t know Orly at all, but you and Jake are two of the biggest Kooks to have ever inhabited N54. So I’m through answering to you if you’re not going to let us in on the conspiracy.

In a densely populated area like North Jersey isn't it likely there would be a number of sort facilities in a smaller area, such that there is a reasonable chance a letter mailed on the 8th would get postmarked on the 8th? In any event, it doesn't seem to make sense that a letter mailed on Dec. 29th would not be postmarked until Jan. 8th.

I wasnt going to mention your name, but since you basically just admitted that you're the one that sent me the pic, just post it.

If no one else is going to say it dammit I will:

AL SHOT JFK!!!!!

The two people who are involved in that don’t want to be involved here in Net54, and since I am an honorable man I would never post “the damn pic” without their permission. Seriously it’s a box with dated labels and a tracking number that absolutely 100% corroborates Al’s story. The tracking number gives away the hometown of the guy who accidentally received the cards. There is no way it’s getting posted and you know that.

I have to agree with David on this one. Al states both are posters here and both innocent so I fail to see any harm in their contribution to this drama. If they have done nothing wrong why not pipe in to set the record straight since it seems every other aspect of this conflict has been put out here.

Peter Chao says hi.

PS: Peter Chao and Orlando are both attorneys. Has anyone seen Orlando and Chao in the same room together?

I didn't think so. And the plot thickens.