+1. Well said.

Duane Clark

+1. Well said

Duane Clark

I just wanted to clear up what happened. The consequences of your behavior are not something I'm concerned about.

Agree. Kudos to Leon for taking quick, decisive action in trying to keep this forum free from scammers and scum bags.

Awesome update as if 10/11... Yeah!

My friend ran into an unforeseen circumstance and he presented my with the opportunity to be able to buy back my PSA 2mc Mantle card from him.

So I'm back to where I was before all this hoopla started.

Now holding a PSA 1 and PSA 2mc Mantle as a result of all this, it's time to start all over and figure out how to turn those two into an upgrade.... Probably a PSA 4 is what I'll look for!

.

What a dilema, having 2 52 #311 Mick rookies.
I love mine, and glad i got it before the 'boom' , on the bay, 2's are asking 14-16k and upwards to 21k for a 2.5 centered well. However i ran across a 2.5 affordable & centered one around or near 13k, and looks presentable ending today that be a good looker or is it hooker.
BTW- show us both your Micks, us post-war guys love to see them.

They are 51 bowman, not 52 topps.

Attachment 207756Attachment 207757

Sorry bro, i been stuck on 52's all day, Nice pics btw. Still nice to have 2 of them 51's.
I can see where you want a more presentable one or one without the crease thru the player. You should go for the upgrade. Mine is a BVG 2 and centered nice, love the more affordable grades that look well. The 51 is a undervalued card compared to his 52.

Interesting how you immediately pulled the listing for the PSA 2 (MC) on Friday as soon as I asked you if it was the same one you claimed to have sold to a friend for a loss in the opening post of this thread.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1951-Bowman-...:X:AAQ:US:1123

Equally interesting that you posted this status update after I told you I was trying to decide whether or not to share the knowledge of this with the board.

Yep, as soon as I knew I was getting it back I listed it in hopes to get more $, but I'm not really sure at this point the best way to upgrade these two for one higher graded one.

If you recall, I had a deal for a PSA 3 and the seller turned out to be an unethical piece of sh*t

Or you never sold that PSA 2(MC), as you claimed to for added sympathy, and are a drama queen. I mean you literally pulled the listing minutes after I messaged you about it on ebay.

You clearly don't know how to do business, everyone on here has confirmed that. You've screwed many people and I have PMs in my box confirming it.

As for what happened with the Mantle, you'll do and say whatever you can to smear someone else and deflect the focus off of you and your bad dealings. The truth is I don't care what you think. Your a lowly piece of sh*t as I said before and that's that.

Feel free to continue to post as much as you want, after this I won't even respond as your not even worth the time it takes to respond.

I actually had no intention of smearing you or I would have done it on Friday when I called you out on it through ebay. It wasn't worth bumping the thread from my perspective. Then I read your "awesome update" today and figured I would share what I know. People can draw their own conclusions, but you and I both know you pulled the listing minutes after I asked you about it.

Blah blah blah blah. The only thing you and I know is that we made a deal, I paid you over $3000, then you backed out... Wanting more $ of course.

Maybe I should share the PMs from others where you did the same thing to them and then said you'd still do the deal for an extra $100.

Your a piece of sh*t. I'll continue to repeat that until you stop posting or I get banned from the board. For now I'll make sure NOBODY ever does a deal with you so you can't continue your shady practices.

Do you honestly think I give a rats ass what you do? You sound like a bitter high-school girl who got dumped before prom. Trust me, I enjoy owning the Mantle and have no interest in selling it at this time.

Dan bought one but his seller reneged on him, so Dan in turn reneged on his buyer, Cozmo. Cozmo in the meantime sold one but then bought it back, listed it on ebay but pulled it, and also bought another one. So it's status quo except Cozmo now has a second one. That, and a bunch of profanity all around. Fair summary?

And these are the Story line for the soap opera "As the Stomach Turns". Yawn

A good trainwreck all the way around.

That pretty bad of seller if all this drama around pulling the card for the $3,000.00 and then said would sell the card for $100 more which would be $3100...

there was also a post about him saying he was going to change his mind in the morning but then after seeing a post or something he didnt go through on the $3000

correct me if im wrong that you didnt agree to sell the card after all this drama for $3100...cause i honestly may be incorrect in my understanding..

Train wreck
 

An awesome update can lead to a train wreck ? :)

No, our deal was for $3250. I backed out and immediately refunded because I chose to keep the card after a deal I had in place for an upgrade got backed out of by another seller. It was a bad move on my part and I accept the consequences.

ah ok so you didnt try to get 100 more from the buyer after the refund...my bad.........also you said you accept the consequences....but now do you regret the consequences...?

also full disclosure: i did buy psa 5 Leaf Jackie robinson from Gobucs and the transaction went fine without a hitch a few months ago..

I regret listing the card for sale before I had the upgrade in hand and I am sorry for backing out of the deal with Eric. Not sure how I can both accept and regret the consequences but I do wish none of this ever happened and acknowledge that it's my fault.

My understanding is that the 100.00 more was on another person's deal by the same seller. The person who was to buy a card at x, then offered the card at x + 100.00 mailed the original poster about their failed deal.

Too many levels of hearsay there for me. If other people feel Dan has done wrong by them, they should come forward, otherwise we should not be generalizing beyond this deal, out of fairness.

This is inaccurate. First, the deal was made...it was not a failed deal. Buyer paid via regular paypal and when I asked him if he would send via paypal gift as described in the listing he opted to pay $100 more (it was a $2700 deal and he paid the extra $100 to cover the paypal fees and overnight shipping). That was his choice. I offered to refund the original payment and have him send the exact same amount he had paid via paypal gift.

First World problem.

"This is inaccurate. First, the deal was made...it was not a failed deal. Buyer paid via regular paypal and when I asked him if he would send via paypal gift as described in the listing he opted to pay $100 more (it was a $2700 deal and he paid the extra $100 to cover the paypal fees and overnight shipping). That was his choice. I offered to refund the original payment and have him send the exact same amount he had paid via paypal gift"

I guess you are talking about the deal you did with me.
Those details are not 100% accurate.
I bought your M116 wagner that you were originaly asking 2750.00 for.
After the listing was up for what you said "45 min" I offered you 2625.00.
You said if you can come up to 2675.00 it is a deal.
Within 1 Min I agreed. We then spoke on the phone and I said I did not feel comfortable paying FF so could I cover the fees. Also at that time you said you would ship the package 1 day mail at your dime. I then paid you instantly for 2750.00 regular paypal.
Then we had an issue because you actually never had the card in hand. 4 days later you now have it. Then you told me you had other people saying they wanted the card and had an offer of 3250.00 along with other offers of 2750 with FF. Then you called me with the card in hand and asked if I could come up on my original offer. We then agreed Id come up another 75.00 to make it as if you got the original 2750 that you wanted. I then asked if you would mail it 1 day mail. And you asked I was paying for that option. So i gave you 100.00 in total extra for a total of 2850.00 for the card.
I love the card. And it is being authenticated now.
This was my only experience with this seller. I also contacted Leon after the transaction.

Rashomon on the BST. :o

That's not how I remember it happening. :D

__
Sco.tt Mar.cus

I was merely clarifying what I thought had happened based on what was said in the post because it sounded like the poster and I had a different take on the series of events.

One thing seems to be clear though, a deal is never done with Gobucs after terms are agreed upon.

"Then you called me with the card in hand and asked if I could come up on my original offer."

To be clear, this was after you had paid and the deal was, in your mind, done?

"
To be clear, this was after you had paid and the deal was, in your mind, done?"

100% yes
Paid and waiting for my card to come.

"
To be clear, this was after you had paid and the deal was, in your mind, done?"

100% yes
Paid and waiting for my card to come.

He was supposed to mail it the day he got it 1 day mail to me. It was expected to come monday he told me. Ended up coming Thursday.(to him, not me)
After that he asked for more money. After being strung along I just wanted the card and the deal to be done. So I agreed to giving him the extra 100.00 as he said he needed money for X reasons.

I dont care to go into this anymore. Other than the fact I feel taken.

Why did you pay more then? Was he threatening to refund your money and take one of his claimed higher offers? Or were you just afraid of losing the deal?

OK I see your second post now.

So you don't recall me asking if you would allow me to refund you so that you could simply re-send the money via Paypal FF and you opting, that is making a choice on your own accord, to send $100 more to cover the Paypal fees and overnight shipping as I had asked for payment via Paypal FF?

Why are you even using paypal friends and family for a BST transaction?

Who doesn't?

We agreed on a non Paypal FF.
I paid the difference.
We agreed for 2675.00 VIA PM!! ON HERE.
I paid the fees extra added to the 2675.00.
I dont trust you at this point. And the card in question is still being authenticated.
Your character at this point is making me happy I did not use FF Paypal.


"So you don't recall me asking if you would allow me to refund you so that you could simply re-send the money via Paypal FF and you opting, that is making a choice on your own accord, to send $100 more to cover the Paypal fees and overnight shipping as I had asked for payment via Paypal FF?""

Aslo I sent 2850.00.. We made a deal for 2675.00 I paid the fees for 2675.00 making it 2750......
YOu then got the card 4 days later after I called you every day , not one missed. And then you asked for another 100.00
I hope the card comes back clean from PSA. as this is making me question the fact it should like you said it would.
Please stop PMing me Dan and just make it public.

What does my character have to do with what method you used to pay him?

Time for the Frogman - Enjoy
 

Oh, several folks.

While I agree that several folks don't use FF...it's kinda lame to attack him at this angle. A shit ton of people use this method to pay, so if we're gonna go after Paypal FF users, let's set up a thread and throw stones that way. Next, let's ask how well he tips his waiters/waitresses...

I hardly ever use the BST...very few items listed fit my collecting niche, I was just curious why people would use FF Paypal. Seems like an easy way to invite the IRS into your affairs when you're moving thousands of dollars with FF on a consistent basis.

Did I not admit in discussions with you that I should not have listed the card in BST until it was in-hand and that I was shocked it sold as quickly as it did (within an hour of posting)? Did I not offer to refund your money until the card arrived on at least two occasions, answer every phone call you made to me, and update you on the tracking status daily? Did I not overnight the card to you the day it arrived and send you tracking information? Did you not have the card in-hand within five days of sending payment? Do you have any legitimate concerns about the card's authenticity? I have not heard of any prior to this evening when you stated publicly, "I love the card", but do you have any real concerns?

Yes, I did receive cash offers for the card exceeding the sale price even after the card was identified as sold in BST, and yes I did ask if you would consider re-sending the funds via paypal FF at which time you offered to pay $100 to cover the paypal fees and pay for overnight shipping.

If you are/were so unhappy with the deal, which is news to me, then why don't we just agree right now publicly that I will pay you whatever it cost you to have it graded and you can ship it back to me (at my expense) for a full refund as soon as you get it back? In other words, we'll just call the whole thing off and you send it back to me regardless of the grading outcome. Work for you? I doubt anyone would want to purchase a M116 Blue Wagner from me, but hell, I'll happily keep it.

I get it, Dan...it's a big risk and honestly, just not smart really. But this has been going on for some time now and it's nothing new under the sun. I'm not a big buyer/seller money wise, but if I were to make a big transaction, I wouldn't want to make it a FF transfer for obvious reasons.

"Did I not admit in discussions with you that I should not have listed the card until it was in-hand (I was shocked it sold as quickly as it did and we discussed that)? Did I not offer to refund your money until the card arrived on at least two occasions, answer every phone call you made to me, and update you on the tracking status daily? Did I not overnight the card to you the day it arrived and send you tracking information? Do you have any legitimate concerns about the card's authenticity? I have not heard of any prior to this evening when you stated publicly, "I love the card", but do you have any real concerns?

Yes, I did receive cash offers for the card exceeding the sale price even after the card was identified as sold in BST, and yes I did ask if you would consider re-sending the funds via paypal FF at which time you offered to pay $100 to cover the paypal fees and pay for overnight shipping. "


All of this was used to ask for 100.00 more.
After we had a deal.



And yes the card in question is still being authenticated. And I am concerned.

So do you want to call the deal off right now and return the Wagner for a full refund as soon as it comes back regardless of grading outcome?

You had board members make you an offer even after the card was marked as sold? They should be identified.

Yes I did and they will be the first members I contact if Derek would like to return the card.

Enough of this crap. Leon, lock this thread please!

+1

I agree but in reality this problem is so bad you can't even post a eBay purchase on this site before you get it in hand because members here will PM the eBay seller trying to screw over the buyer so they can get that precious card.

Why, it's drama on the high seas!!

BTW, I generally use paypal FF when it is a transaction with a friend.

The salient point here seems to be that even leaving aside the FF vs regular paypal, after the deal was completed, Dan apparently asked for more money. because he had better offers.

I asked Derek if he'd be willing to pay via Paypal FF and he offered to pay $100more instead, that's the bottom line.

Every Nine Pages....Every Nine Pages....
 

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/204295...2_0002_NEW.JPG


..." Every Nine Pages" rule : here's today's submission....

...odd bit of personal coincidental memorabilia trivia serendipity happenstance : True Story-- many decades ago when I was at college , my girlfriend , during Spring semester , introduced me to her parents , who had driven over from New Jersey for a weekend visit , and when I greeted her mother as " Mrs. Cohen" , she told me to "Oh please , just call me 'Rose' "............jeez , what are the odds...

..okay , back to the popcorn...

..

Objection sustained!! (I used to watch Perry Mason...)

As I understand it, Derek claims there were TWO increases, one for your paypal fees and a second AFTER he had agreed to and paid the extra $100. So the price went from 2675 FF to 2750 regular paypal then to 2850.

I thought you were gonna say she said "Oh please, just call me Andy".

That is correct. He indicated he did not understand what Paypal FF was when we made the deal and said he preferred to pay $2750 via regular paypal. I then asked if he would allow me to refund the $2750 and send funds via Paypal gift and he offered to pay $100 more to cover fees and overnight shipping. So yes, that is correct.

If you had a done and paid-for deal at 2750 regular paypal including overnight shipping, as Derek claims, why did Derek end up paying another 100? Did he just volunteer it?

I asked if he would be willing to pay the $2750 via PayPal FF and he offered to pay $100. I mentioned there was no reason to pay more and he indicated that was his preference.

If you had a deal at 2750 regular paypal, why did you then ask him to pay 2750 FF? It sounds to me like you went back for more after the deal was done, knowing he wanted to use regular PP.

+1

Never post a purchase before you get it in hand. Never sell a card until you get the upgraded one in hand. It's all the same. And that more than anything is the takeaway from this thread.

You can scream about the predators and take-backers, but at the end of the day, you should never behave like you own a card until it is in your hands. It's the wild west over here.

Did I miss something or did he say he was offered the extra money? I would be careful about badgering the witness. ........(I just made that up but I think I heard it on a TV show.)

He had a done deal at 2750 PP, and then sought to change it back to FF already knowing Derek did not want to pay by FF because he already had agreed to pay more to use regular PP, and in the context of mentioning to Derek he had received higher offers. Where I come from, you honor the terms of your deal, period.

I agree deals should be honored.

Ok, (continuing with the court theme), we should go back and read the transcript.

Per cobblove:

Original deal agreed on was $2675.

Seller wanted payment via FF and buyer agreed to pay $2750 (an extra $75) to cover paypal fees.

Four days later seller says he has other offers including $2750 FF and asks buyer if he can refund the $2750 regular payment and have buyer resend as $2750 FF.

Buyer agrees to pay an additional $100 ($2850) to cover paypal fees (a second time) and also cover overnight delivery which buyer says seller already agreed to pay the first time at $2750.

The seller doesn't dispute any of this, except to say the additional $100 (from $2750 to $2850) was a voluntary payment from the buyer, omitting the fact that it was the second time the buyer paid extra to cover paypal fees.


These are the facts as I understand them your honor from reading the posts above. :o

Skip this thread for a few days and now I'm so confused, I'll never get the plot back.

Is Bobby Ewing just in the shower or did he really die?

Southfork is about 3.5 miles due south of me.....He died.

Who's on first...........
What's on second............
I don't know is on third.......

Of all the posts in this thread, this one made me laugh the most. And that's saying something.

I don't see how any of this additional information posted in the past few days is pertinent. When a deal is made you honor the deal for the amount agreed upon. No going back for more, no refunding money because you found a higher price or better terms, no "..I'm sorry my replacement card deal fell through", etc. you simply honor your agreement.

If you don't you are not an honorable person.

I think it needs to be said again...a deal with gobucs is never a done deal until the mailman delivers the card.