Although not a needed piece, couldn't be happier with this. Also, wanted to help just a little with the root cause of this auction. A selfless act to be very proud of, nice job Leon!

The Leon Luckey Type CardCollection
 

My only acquisition was this. It is right in my wheel house...an item of extreme rarity, and top flight HOFer!

http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball/19...ription-071515

Glenn Mechanick

Congrats on the pickup. That and the Orange Borders box were a couple of my favorite items in the auction.

Awesome pickup Glenn, I think I was the under bidder (or close)

The Leon Luckey Type Card Colletion
 

Thanks Daryl & Greg! It goes nicely with my similar issue cut cards of Mack and Chance. Even the separate cards are quite rare, but not currently in demand. This does not bother me though; it just means the price was less than what they would have been were they in demand.

Greg, likely, you'll get me next time!

Glenn

Came away with this one.

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgall...RNYCJHInew.jpg

Beautiful Tony
Doesn't get much better looking than a T3 Cobb

Thanks Craig...... I agree :)

Very nice pickups Glenn and Tony!

Glenn-

Congrats on the pickup. I was bidding for a while, and then dropped out to go after some other pieces. I thought that was a great price!

- Jon

I was glad to help out Leon's cause with the acquisition below. I actually lost out to Leon on the ad wheel last November on ebay! :D

sadly
 

lost out to a couple good people - the Kotton and Mino, GQ pack and cartons, OJ "wheel", and a few others. I did win the bakery pennant premium featuring the actors and actresses. Now I just need to find some room for it.............

The Leon Luckey Type Card Collection
 

Thanks James & Jon!

Glenn

I hate to beat a dead horse but count me as another big Johnny V fan. Although I do not know him and have never really dealt with him, his enthusiasm and helpful attitude are truly refreshing. NOBODY on here is more willing to help other collectors, or offer them tips, or advice, or tries to get others to collect baseball cards for the right reasons, rather than investments etc. I have been on here for a couple of years collecting T206s and have never seen him say a bad word about anybody, or have a poor attitude. Yes he is a little over enthusiastic, but give me his attitude 7 days of the week over some of the other incendiary miserable types here.

Auction
 

I picked up the pee wee reese pre rookie card photo.
I had my heart set on the zeenut run with the coupons, the mascot and the zeenut postcard.
With a wedding planned next year I had to stay in my budget.
Scott and Leon treat our family awesome.

john

Please allow a contrasting view. Not all of us here are interested in collecting T206; in fact, I and some others find it for the most part immensely boring. Accordingly, I often ignore threads on the subject rather than complain about it–that is the expected protocol, right? Now imagine my delight when there’s a thread started on a type collection–a magnificent one with (in my view) endless subjects of discussion-and from a board member no less. A collection after my own heart, with a little something for everybody that may bring out very informative posts about more obscure issues. I open that thread to see repeated ramblings that I found nearly incoherent about, guess what–T206! Better still, Frankenstein and scrap T206, where machine shop errors are elevated to cult and coveted status. More and more were my eyes treated to these posts. Now I’m sorry, but IF EVER there was a thread in which such subject could take a back seat to the topic at hand and go its own way for those who care, this was it. But no, on and on it went, with the same poster often just posting one after another.

Then, instead of getting back on track, there was a somewhat prolonged period of testimonials for this poster and his apparent unmatched “passion” and exuberance for his niche, as though the rest of us can’t get that and as if that was the point. Another day or so of few meaty posts in favor of more opportunities to hear from the T206 collectors. Thankfully, there since have been a good number of posts about pick-ups from this exquisite grouping.

I admit to having never even taken much less scored highly in an etiquette class, and by no means did I diffuse the situation here. Perhaps I am incendiary, although I am not miserable. This board and the hobby have changed over the past few years, neither to my liking. I blame no one, or maybe I blame everyone. There are options available to me, and they should be considered. For purposes of this post and thread, though, I just want to congratulate Leon and all who were fortunate enough to have won something, and hope to hear more about those winnings.

Todd I think you are both incendiary and miserable. :D:D

Brendan.....
 

I have to say that was a very thoughtful and kind post.....it put a smile on my face big time!!.....like all the other kind words/posts/and emails lately....

that was a very touching post my friend! I always got your back and all the positive folks here......this just gets me more motivated to help fine folks like we have here.....:)

I like to find the good in people.....I have found so many great people here.....I just can't even begin to start...

Peter has become such a part of this board, I seriously couldn't see this board without him! another incredible person and witty:)

I know Leon will build another fascinating collection, it's in our blood! he has the passion, only one way to cure the "itch"......is some old cardboard:D

again Leon, congrats on the auction!

and again, thanks to the great collectors we have here irrelevant to what you collect, we are almost like a big family!

:)

Peter....
 

altho I didn't win this at leon's.......this post is for you! I do have a few little "non t206 morsels":D

Yes, I did...Thanks Sean!

I haven't had time to read this entire thread, but will just say that Johnny is an extremely passionate & knowledgeable collector. Great guy.

I found it interesting that for Leon's auction, there seemed to be people who felt prices were low on some items. Someone even speculated that he may have gotten different (better) results if he had used REA instead of Heritage. I even saw where Leon said that it looked like items he picked up specifically for his type collection did not seem to do as well as the items he picked up because of his liking them.

Here is an interesting, real-time comparison. There were two somewhat identical lots in Leon's auction, #79457 and #79458, where each was for a single W511 card of Babe Ruth. One was numbered #52 from the set while the other was #71. Both were SGC graded as 20s (1.5) and both lots sold for the exact same amount, $382.40. What I found interesting was that at 9:00 PM Sunday night, another W511 card of Ruth (#71) sold on Ebay. This card was also graded but, by PSA and not by SGC, and in this case the grade was only Authentic, no numerical grade.

The interesting thing I noted was that the Ebay card sold with a winning bid of $523.00, quite a bit higher than either of Leon's cards. The Ebay item number was #331624978829. I believe this is the link.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-W511-71...item4d3663998d

Would not have thought Ebay would deliver a higher price for such a not often seen card, especially so close in time to the one's just sold by Leon. Curious as to any thoughts others might have. I'm wondering if by Leon offering so many rare and unusual cards all at once in one auction like this, the people bidding had so many different things to go after that instead of them going after everything they wanted, they had to pick and choose which lots to bid on because of budgetary and other constraints. The result being that some items, maybe like these W511s, went for less than they would have otherwise. I know, I know, the same can be said about any other auction where there are lots of great items and people can't bid on everything they want either because of budget constraints. In this instance though, there were just so darn many great lots. Plus, it is so close to the National, and several other major auctions that just closed in the past couple weeks. Is it very possible that some collectors had hit their spending limits and/or already picked up some great items, and that may have contributed to some of the "perceived" lower prices on some items in this auction?

Still a great auction though Leon, congrats.

Bob C

There were (6) bids on that card above the $382 bid on Leon's card by (4) unique bidder numbers. It is odd as most type collectors would have known about all the ones up for sale..........

Block all of his posts if he annoys you that much.

Tom,

Yes, I saw that also there were multiple bidders above the final price that Leon's W511 cards achieved. That is what didn't make sense and why I brought it up. I was wondering if there was some credence to the point one person made about the auction getting better results if a different AH were used. It certainly isn't a PSA versus SGC issue as I wouldn't call the W511 cards a normal set that someone would try to establish as the top set on the PSA registry. And besides, PSA only gave it an Authentic grade whereas SGC gave both of Leon's cards a numerical grade.

I'm guessing the Ebay bidders were possibly not bidding in the Heritage auction, or even aware of it. I am sure there are a lot of people that bid on Ebay that don't use auction houses because they either don't know, or don't care, about the AHs, or may even figure that they would pay more through an AH what with the buyer's premium and such that usually gets tacked on to the hammer price. In this case, it turned out to be just the opposite, and only three days after Leon's auction ended!

I was thinking that with the National and some other really great auctions all just ending within a couple weeks of Leon's auction, is it possible there was too much saturation of great, high priced items out there in such a short period of time that potential buyer's held back on items such as these W511 cards? Huggins & Scott's auction ended a week earlier than Leon's, then there was also the LOTG auction that ended prior to last Thursday, and don't forget the big auctions that were taking place and closed during the National. And then there is the National itself where people save up to attend and often make large purchases.

Don't get me wrong, this was a great auction and I think Leon did very well but, I'm also beginning to think he may have left some money on the table due to the timing of when it occurred. I'm guessing the original thought was that having it right after the National would allow for people to see the items and build more interest, and therefore, more bidding. I also noticed that some people posting in this thread mentioned they were a little surprised at how quickly everything closed, despite the 30 minute, lot by lot, carryover bidding. It seemed that some people felt there would be many items remaining open for bidding a lot longer than they were. I'm wondering if there was just too much, too soon, and it ended up effecting Leon's prices realized since his seems to be the last big auction/sale in such a short time frame?

Anyway, just my opinion and something I thought others may like to weigh in on. And besides the two W511 Ruth cards, were there any other lots anyone felt were way underbid?

Bob C

Bob, you can also make an argument the other way where lots went much higher than Ebay as well. Ebay does really good with items 500.00 or less IMO, and the AHs do much better with higher end items! Why? Because all the serious collectors who know rarity and value subscribe and participate in most of the big auction companies. Ebay attracts the serious collectors but nit to where we search it daily for deals and cards. The high end cards which go through an AH will be infront of all the serious collectors who have the means to buy. Ebay and AHs appeal to different types of collectors and knowledge. Look at how some reprints sell from other post in Ebay. That would never fly throug an AH.

I don't put too much stock in the timing of Leon's collection being sold. The catalog was out there in plenty of time for people to budget. Plus, there were not alot of duplicates to where it would keep the price down other than like the Ferguson Bakery cards (congrats to Bill and other owner). The format was. Ery fair IMO too! The auction did not extend into the wee hours of the night.

There were many great percieved great values like the Pinkerton Cobb comes to mind. Plus, there were some strong prices which will adjust price guides next year like the Tarzan bread cards and the Cobb Shapiro card.

I think many people will look back at this auction and say I wish I had gone a little bit stronger on this lot. Plus, Im sure the "make a offer" part of Heritage will get tons of use for the next decade because of this auction.

I think Leon said in a post earlier that some items were almost to rare for its own good! I totally agree with that and when a description reads _____ known to exsist, than you might want to jump in that one. Rather than worrying about what a population report isfor the grade of a card.

Sago.....
 

:)

As a Ruth collector, there were seriously a lot of Ruth cards in this auction. I sorta wish that Leon's collection was divided into a couple of auctions like the Dreier collection. You can use gavelsnipe to "snipe" Heritage auctions before Extended bidding starts. Since I have three young children, I was somewhat nervous that I would be busy with kids' stuff (like putting them to bed) during auction close time, so I put "snipes" on all of the lots that I was interested in at bids that I thought were fair value. After the snipes went off at the beginning of extended time, I was literally over 10+K over my budget with my winning max bids. I have a decent sized card collecting budget, but it is definitely not unlimited. Therefore, when I started getting outbid, I didn't think that I had the wherewithal to try to bid again on those lots, and as I mentioned in a previous post, as I started losing most of my bids during extended time, I wish I could have looped back on lots that had already closed.

Saying all of that, I still think that I hit my max budget+ for my winnings in this auction, and my bank account is thanking my for not going in more. Also, I think most of the lots that I was bidding on did extremely well with many going for far more than I thought they would, so I would guess Leon is probably fairly satisfied with how the auction went.

One card I thought would go a bit higher was the D304 Cobb. I get that it wasn't too high of a grade, but I thought the Marten's back would made up for the light creasing. Looking at other prices realized I guess grade means a bit more than back with that particular issue.

JC - Good points, don't disagree.

Gary - What you're saying kind of goes along with what I was maybe thinking that there was just so much all at once, and that that may have a downward impact on many bids.

The fact that many of these items were so rare/unique does kind of dovetail in with the notion that because of all the other auctions and the National all just having taken place in the couple weeks prior to Leon's auction, bidders may have already spent quite a bit more than expected. And because of that, they may not have gone as high as they would have otherwise for these various rare/unique items. Or they may have decided to just focus on a few lots instead of bidding on many more, which would also tend to have an overall dampening effect on the final prices realized overall. I think it is simple human nature that had there not been other major auctions say for a month or two leading up to Leon's auction, there would have been a lot more activity and stronger prices on at least some of these rare/unique items. Just my opinion. All in all, Leon did very well from where I'm sitting and has to be happy. It will be interesting to see if any items come back into the market within say the next year, and how they do. Only time will tell...........

I know that what I spent at the National definitely had an effect on what lots I bid on in Heritage's auction of Leon's collection, limiting me to just the 1929 Leader Novelty Mel Ott. Thus, I think timing was indeed a factor.

Regards,

Larry

100% agree.

Sorry for the belated reading--been busy with one too many appeal briefs for the Michigan Court of Appeals. I also agree with this analysis completely, and believe the Matty will be a true gem in the coming years!

Hi, Jeff

Larry

[QUOTE=BobC;1443146]Tom,

Yes, I saw that also there were multiple bidders above the final price that Leon's W511 cards achieved. That is what didn't make sense and why I brought it up. I was wondering if there was some credence to the point one person made about the auction getting better results if a different AH were used. It certainly isn't a PSA versus SGC issue as I wouldn't call the W511 cards a normal set that someone would try to establish as the top set on the PSA registry. And besides, PSA only gave it an Authentic grade whereas SGC gave both of Leon's cards a numerical grade.

I'm guessing the Ebay bidders were possibly not bidding in the Heritage auction, or even aware of it. I am sure there are a lot of people that bid on Ebay that don't use auction houses because they either don't know, or don't care, about the AHs, or may even figure that they would pay more through an AH what with the buyer's premium and such that usually gets tacked on to the hammer price. In this case, it turned out to be just the opposite, and only three days after Leon's auction ended!



Sometimes Ebay gets bidders who dont want to wait months on an auction..and Paypal by credit card is a lot easier than sending a check in the mail....

For the 100,000th time you don't pay more with an AH because of a buyer's premium.

Peter,

Absolutely agree with you but, for a vast number of people, that is a perception that the Buyer's Premium somehow means they are paying more. For a lot of people, perception is reality, deserved or not. Same thing may possibly be said about sales tax. A major auction house like Heritage is in multiple states and due to the volume, frequency and dollar amount of auctions they run, they have to follow the letter of the law and properly collect sales tax on many, if not all, items they sell. On Ebay there are some legit businesses that collect sales tax but, even then, it is probably for only one state, not many. And there are what I would think is a decided majority of sellers that treat selling on Ebay as a casual sale, similar to if they are just having a garage sale. They don't register as a vendor in their state and collect sales tax from anyone in such cases.

This is exactly why stores will price items at $4.99 and not an even $5.00. It is why gas stations charge $2.72-9/10 per gallon and not an even cent amount. It is all about perception and what people perceive. If not, why don't all auction houses not bother charging a separate Buyer's Premium as an add on to the hammer price of an auctioned item? If everyone truly factors in such Buyer's Premiums when they're bidding then they could tell seller's they'll just get X percent of whatever the final hammer price is for their commission and everyone should end up in the same place as if they added a separate Buyer's Premium. It doesn't happen though. Some, not all but, some bidders will not factor in the Buyer's Premium, especially in the excitement of the auction format, and end up bidding more than they maybe would have otherwise. And even if they don't end up winning the auction, they make someone else who was determined to win a particular item have to pay more than they maybe would have had to otherwise.

Agreed. Well said.

where is george carlin or dennis miller when ya need them?

ok, i will give it a stab...

i am one of these people, yet i don't feel like i necessarily get better deals on ebay. i feel like i do save time and a ton of aggravations though.

and i don't wanna go off on a rant here, but:

1. there's too damn many of them.

2. the range of different buyer's premiums
____a. this one always get's me: 19.5%*

* just call it 20% and quit fn toying w/ me. you're not doing me any favors by playing coy @ "19.5%" and keeping it under the unmagical number of 20%.
as if simply calling it a 20% buyer's premium is gonna put you in the scumbag class. you know what does put you in that class? going up to 19.5% and getting as close to that unmagical number as you possibly can w/o just being the guy that simply says: "20% buyers premium".

3. i don't want to have to create 20 different accounts and:
____a. divulge my personal info to a bunch of randars
____b. subject myself to give out references (really?)
____c. create another user id to remember (b/c you wont let me use the one i want)
____d. create another password to remember
_______1. some require capital letters
_______2. some require special characters
_______3. some require letters and numbers
_______4. some require capital letters, special characters, letters and numbers
_______5. however, i can rest assured knowing that they will never allow me to use the password i actually want to use.

4. wait around for the wizard to approve me

5. not be able to pay via paypal or at least via credit card
____a. you want me to send ya a check? really. should i send it via horseback? it's 2015 for mastro's sake!
____b. who doesn't like points, free trips or 2% cash back?
____c. who doesn't like 1 - 30 days of free money?
____d. who doesn't want someone else having your back should something transpire

6. not be able to pay w/ a credit card AND not have a fee tacked on
____a. see 2. you've already got me for "19.5%".
____b. now ya wanna charge me another 3% to take my credit card?
____c. go ahead and tack on that processing and handling fee while you are at it.


7. sit around and "preview" for a solid month before the auction starts**

8. then wait around for another month for the auction process**

** as if 7. and 8. weren't enough...i just love this sh!t coming up next: love potion 9.

9. then wait around some more to engage in the wonderful extended bidding war process
____a. just plain bullsh!t if ya ask me
____b. see 7. we've already waited a month to begin with
____c. after 2 fn months of previewing and auctioning, you want me to sit up til 4am and 5am so the bidders can toy w/ each other?


10. shipping.
____a. wont name names, but it took one auction house 3+ weeks to get my package in the mail***

*** not to me. just dropped off. 3+ weeks.

11. no recourse if the ball is dropped
____a. at least w/ ebay if someone screws up. i can neg feedback them and/or caution others
____b. w/ an auction house, what are ya gonna do?

12. i simply cant look at 1 page and see all the items i'm interested in.

13. sales tax.

14. THE FN BUYER'S PREMIUM!
____a. simply hate any buyer's premium. charge that sh!t to the seller. or better yet, simply throw that sh!t up on ebay. let me see it and let's iron out a deal directly where the only fee is via paypal.


could go on and on. i've tried a few different auction houses and to me, it's simply the old school way of doing business. not that there's anything wrong w/ it. it's just not for me and i doubt it will be around for too much longer. "too much longer" being a relative term.

hell, even the auction houses are getting wise these days and advertise their auctions w/ an actual ebay listing and even heritage allows you to login w/ your paypal account and pay (up to $5K, i think) using them....

believe this is fairly recent and a wise move.

again, "fairly recent" being a relative term. as i know this wasn't an option in 2013.

ok, that's enough. auction houses rock. they are the best, yada, yada, yada.

The Leon Luckey Type Card Collection – Bidding Ends on Thursday - August 13, ...
 

Nice cards everyone.

I won 2 of the 3 cards that I wanted most from Leon's collection:
(1) the E222 A.W. H. Caramel card of Otey for my collection of cards of Virginia League players.
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-ca...links-12202013
(2) the T216 Virginia Extra of Jennings, which I wanted to go with my T216 Kotton and T216 Mino cards of Jennings with the same pose.
http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-ca...pleItem-071515

The third card is the T205 Hindu of WaJo, but my limit was $5Kish, and it went for a bit over $7K. I also won a Western Playground card for my type collection and a couple of other cards.

Because Heritage closes its auction lots individually, I spent only 65% of the $$ that I was fully intending to spend (sorry about this, Leon!). Once the T205 Hindu-WaJo reached the price level where I decided not to pursue it further, several lots that I would have reallocated my $$ to had already closed. When the day comes that I decide to part with my collection, I will absolutely NOT give it to an auction house that closes lots individually, for I am convinced this method does not serve the best interests of consignors.

Val

No really a type card collector...
 

... but there was a ton of interesting stuff in there.... I bid on 20 lots or so, but only won one... This Matty.... congrats Leon on an amazing auction. Really wish that I could have picked up the Thorpe to match the Matty, but it has been a year with a lot of out flows!

For the 100,001st time, a buyer's premium is meaningless except to the consignor.

Nice Matty!! It was one of my favorites from the auction.

+1 I have never bought or sold anything in an auction because it just seemed like a pain in the ass to me. I never complained about it or bothered to think about all the reasons why it was a pain, or to catalogue the reasons, but I got a kick out of this list and agreed with a lot of it. That said, I do enjoy looking at the listings and descriptions, and Leon's in particular was amazing to see.

I just don't see why it's a pain in the ass. You bid, if you win you get invoiced, you pay, they ship your card. A little slower than ebay in most (but not all) cases but so what?

I have to say I'm in the camp of preferring ebay to auction houses. My reasons are similar to some stated. I hate registering for each different auction house. When an ebay auction ends, it actually ends!! I'm not a high end collector with an unlimited budget, so ebay keeps me limited to what's on ebay. Also I just want to pay through paypal if possible. I registered for Leon's auction because it was special and I wanted to participate. Even though I didn't win anything I'm glad to have bid. I collect a little bit of everything, and could register for endless art antique etc auctions. In the end there is really only one reason I stick to ebay. I AM LAZY.

Thanks Steven... not sure why that card "called" me to get it. It just jumped off the page and said that it wanted to be in my collection. Looking forward to seeing it in hand.

Sure...I like buying cards on ebay too...but you just don't get the quality on ebay you get in the big AH's. So if you're looking for tough cards...you just don't see everyday...there's no other game!

+1

I do eBay and pretty much all auction houses....

1. A fee is a fee. Bid accordingly
2. Life is FULL of ID's, what's a few dozen more
3. Life is all about inconveniences, why should auction houses be any different.
4. If you want the STUFF, you gotta play ball
5. That.is.all

1. no fee on ebay.
2. 12 - 36 more.
3. because this is my hobby. why would i want to be inconvenienced? other than a relatively few shipping hiccups, ebay process is simple.
4. not a t206 collector but i've found everything i've needed on ebay, expect my venezuelan ryan*.
5. and the beat goes on.

* and there have been 2 of these listed in the past 2 months after not seeing one listed for 4 years.

there's a reason you've had to say this 100,001 times, peter.

go ahead and regurgitate it another 100,001 times and you'll still be wrong.

the dress is white and gold.

Any intelligent bidder understands this, I am not sure why you don't Bob. But to repeat what Tom just said, and what has been said countless times, take the fee into account when deciding how much you want to bid. It's that simple. It affects the consignor not the bidder.

I have no interest in arguing w/ an intelligent collector that has to repeat something 100,001 times yet nothing resonates. w/ that being said it would be utterly useless to even tap in on your "it only effects the consignor" theory.

let's repeat one of you favorite quotes: for a man only hears what he wants to hear, right?

I give up Bob. Others will have to educate you.

thank you. and let's keep in mind, i never signed up for your class.

Anybody get their shipping refund yet? Anyone know if it's supposed to be credited back to PayPal (for those of us who paid with PayPal) or if it's just "store credit"? Or something else?

ebay, auction houses and buyer's premiums
 

Regarding Pete's point that ebay is preferred but you have to go where the stuff is...
+ 2

And as a buyer I agree with Peter...and have since # 17 ....on buyer's premiums, but am certainly not bothered that others see it differently

I asked when I would receive the refund. They emailed me that I'm getting a "credit" towards future auctions. That's bs!!

That's ridiculous if it's true. Per the email they sent a few days ago:

"if you have already paid for your invoice with an incorrect shipping charge, then you will receive a refund for the difference."

Pete....
 

+1 ....better pieces at AH....better"buys" on ebay if you are luckey;) enough to find some gems:)

I agree with Peter

Wait - they made an error, so they get to earn interest on our money? Guess I need to scroll through the thread to find the right email address to indicate my thoughts on that.

The thing about ebay is that you often don't know if you're being shilled, and if that's the reason that the prices are higher. For example, I went back and looked at that W511 Ruth from post 261 in this thread. I'm not saying that I know with certainty that the auction was shilled, but some of the bidders are certainly suspect. First, I know the winning bidder in this auction is legit. There is a collector that likes W511 Ruth's, which I've sold to in the past, and the feedback # matches, so I'm pretty sure it's him. However, the underbidders, I'm not so sure about. The direct underbidder with a feedback of 595, is probably legit, but there are so few bids. The second underbidder with the feedback of 649 has a few bid retractions, and a relatively high # of bids for a seller that doesn't really sell a lot of items. However, the third underbidder with the 185 feedback, is very suspect with a huge # of bid retractions. There do not seem to be any snipes that registered in this auction although it looked like the first underbidder did some "manual sniping" at the end of the auction. Therefore, if the 185 feedback bidder did not bid the item up, it is possible that the auction may have ended at a lower price since the last bidders would have been starting from a lower base (assuming additional snipes were not triggered at the lower price). What is for sure is that it is much more difficult to retract bids at AH's than ebay so the shenanigans of the 185 bidder would not have come into play in the Heritage auction.

Absolutely +1.

Right on, Peter.

Highest regards,

Larry

If you leave 100.00 in the bank at 1 percent a year. You get 1 dollar at the end of the year.

If you get enough of a percentage to make retaining a fraction of your shipping charge a seriously profitable endeavor, you either have an insane baseball card purchasing budget or you have one hell of a bank you are storing your money at.

Not sure if this is a deliberate misinterpretation, but I'm happy to clarify my point.

Any individual's difference in shipping charges will be relatively minor. You'll notice that I did not talk about interest I would not be earning, but very specifically said "they get to earn interest on our money." This was a deliberate wording choice.

If the auction house keeps all those differentials rather than refunding as they said they would, it adds up. It's still trivial in comparison to the amount that they make off the auction as a whole, but as a business practice I would find it objectionable. In fact, the relative triviality is probably why I'd find it objectionable.

I get that it's clearly not a big deal to you. This is my first purchase from one of the "big" auction houses. How I get treated is a big deal to me. They impressed me by so quickly addressing the over-charge problem on shipping. I'm hoping what the poster up-thread was told was the result of some miscommunication within HA about how things were being handled, since "refund" was part of their email to affected bidders.

But, being that this is the internet, and being that I'm a cynical sort, that hope was not what guided my first response.

-1

Not trying to sound like I am debating you.

I don't think it was a misinterpretation rather than an inverse of what you said.

The way you worded what you said, you sounded upset that you were the one not able to make the money in interest, because they were, as they are holding your funds in their account as a positive balance/credit.

I would say that even if they held everyone's money it probably wouldn't equate to a whole lot of cash in interest.

Even if you add them all up it is trivial. Lets go big or go home. If they held a whopping 100,000 in cash, at 1 percent in a whole year they would make 1000.00.

Without even thinking to much about it, it has got to be no where near that big of a mistake. So what are they going to actually profit? Next to nothing after they are done dealing with refunds for those who want them.

100 bucks? Probably not after the cost of providing refunds lot by lot out which would outweigh any profits they would make. In fact to you use your credit you may by more.

Not saying it is a perfect answer, but that is my take on the decision.

On the topic of buyers premium:

I do agree that as a buyer you simply factor this into your final price before hand as a matter of fact. That still doesn't mean that as a buyer I don't think about the size of the buyers premium. For instance I would rather have a 10 percent buyers premium rather than 20. Before you tell me the item in the 10 percent premium auction will simply sell for 10 percent more in the final bidding, as a former worker at an auction let me just say NO, NO. I worked at a general antiques auction with a flat 10 percent buyers premium. I also went regularly to auctions in the same area with higher buyers premiums at 15-20 percent. The prices almost never correlated in terms of factoring in buyers premium, often the same item would sell for the same exact price in both auctions. Given that wouldn't you rather start out 10 percent in the hole as opposed to 20?

I've seen it happen time and time again. In the heat of auction battles, the sense of a buyers premium often goes out the window.

The Leon Luckey Type Card Collection – Bidding Ends on Thursday - August 13, ...
 

I don't think your experience at a general antiques auction is comparable to a big sports AH.

For goodness sakes, with easy-to-use sites like Heritage, which display the bid amount w/BP right next to the bid amount, how can anyone be confused about this?

+1

If it didn't get ignored then the auction houses wouldn't use it, and would just deduct a percentage from the final bid to take away from the consignor. Stated another way, when you placed your bid you'd see the actual cost when you clicked the button, as opposed to a lesser pre-premium cost.

How do you know it isn't the sense of overall value that goes out the window?

That is an absurd argument, particularly where many AHs remind you of the premium at the time you bid either by doing the math for you or by having a parenthetical saying not including buyer's premium.

Daryl nobody is confused except maybe Bob, and even if they were, they would at most make a single mistake and not repeat it ever again after they saw the premium tacked on.

Maybe this has been explained before and I'm just tired, but I am curious to know why an AH doesn't just skip the buyer's premium altogether and take their 1/6 share from the final hammer price. If buyers are already aware of BPs and adjust their max bids accordingly, presumably their max bids would increase once free of BPs. If the ultimate price with BP is the same as without it, and buyers don't care who gets what split of their money, then it should make no difference, right? On the other hand, if, for whatever reason and in spite of logic buyers don't like BPs and withhold participation for that strange (IMO) reason, then they will bid more and the hammer price would be higher without them.

IOW, if the BP doesn't make any difference and bidders ultimately pay the same max price with or without it, then why won't an AH try it the other way and charge no BP, agreeing instead to take its cut from the consignor's share?

Because consignors dont want money taken out of the purchase price.....
.its about the consignors not the bidders...also this is classic talk about 'user fee' versus general tax ..people dont mind paying 'tax' or in this case a 'bp' when its for s specific service..

Well isn't that just as irrational? If a card sells for $100 with a 20% BP, the consignor gets $100 and the AH $20. If there's no BP and the buyer still bids and pays $120, the consignor gets $100 and the AH gets $20 (assuming 1/6 fee to consignor). Isn't it rather silly to call out bidders who don't want to pay BP and say it makes no difference but not criticize consignors for the same lapse in logic if there is no BP and prices increase to where the buyer is paying the same price?

BTW Al Jurgela, congrats on that Matty--I can't stop staring at it.

it all adds up to the same thing..people include what the bp in their bids..

and on ebay..sellers factor into the ebay fees.......

it doesnt need to make sense...whatever the consignor wants goes.....some auctions houses give the consignor some of the buyers premium as well......

because the good Peter'th says so. that's why. and that's all that matters. His words are scripture and there is no denying this.

for Pete's sake / for christ's sake. this is not by coincidence.

sheesh, all 100,002 of us know that.

It's called anchoring, and I suggest all auction bidders read up on it. It's really interesting. From Wikipedia:

"Anchoring or focalism is a cognitive bias that describes the common human tendency to rely too heavily on the first piece of information offered (the "anchor") when making decisions. During decision making, anchoring occurs when individuals use an initial piece of information to make subsequent judgments. Once an anchor is set, other judgments are made by adjusting away from that anchor, and there is a bias toward interpreting other information around the anchor. For example, the initial price offered for a used car sets the standard for the rest of the negotiations, so that prices lower than the initial price seem more reasonable even if they are still higher than what the car is really worth."

Auction houses do the same thing by hiding the BP away from the bid price. The bid price is the "anchor." The BP is irrationally adjusted away. And then the AH immediately flips their numbers to include the BP when they're promoting how big their sales are. It's so obvious why they do that I frankly find it "absurd" that you think all customers treat a straight combined bid/BP number (ebay format) the same as one which hides the ball/BP in their Auction Rules page. Auctions are impulse buy markets, where people are not making the most rationale buying decisions to begin with. It only takes one irrationale participant to drive a price up.

If you make people do multiplication in their heads in a 20-minute extended bidding period at 2am, you will get irrational behavior. That's why you see 19.5% BPs instead of 20%. It makes it less palatable to do the actual math. Quick -- what's 1.195 x $1,900? Most bidders know their number will bring them over $2,000, but some won't realize or care that it's $2,270.50 until they get the invoice. Others will do the 20% calculation in their heads to get to $2,280 and then take an irrational discount in their heads to account for the 0.5% discount, which "saved" them all of $9.50 on a $2,000+ purchase.

Again, it's a form of anchoring, which is a very common way to set prices. E.g., $19.99 seems like way less than $20 to most in TV ads.