No need to spin it, they will accept it at face value, and maybe we can get some more misleading calculations to support it.

I will.....but I want to go on record as someone who thinks it's crazy to let bidders retract bids almost at will, regardless of ebay policies or not. Do I think Rick is complicit otherwise, no. Do I think he turns the other cheek, so to speak, yes. Do I think he does act on some of the more egregious issues, yes. But I will ask about the Panky issue.....

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

There has never been any issue that I am aware of with the items he sells not being real. The auctions they are sold in are full of shill bids in many instances.

No buying from him is not safe and I will explain in detail in a later thread.

That just says criminal behavior in my opinion.

It may be the case that that the "bid retractor" never had any intention of "winning" anything. So I am not sure what that is supposed to mean.

A suggestion
 

Ebay could install a "RETRACT NOW" button to facilitate bid retractions, but I would suggest that in addition to providing the Bid Count in parentheses to scrollers that they provide a Retraction Count as well on each auction page. These could be color coded as demonstrated here.

So if you went to any auction page the line with the current bid would read


Just an idea to make things easier for all.;););)

Good idea Frank! BTW nasty thread about problemstein on the post war side.

I suspect that at some point ebay will get rid of the 'bid retractions' information, as it hinders shilling by their larger accounts.

Scott, you mean that Ebay is not going to pay me a royalty for my suggestion.:eek:

At this point the fact that you can still see it is likely an oversight.

Hey Scott, whoa whoa whoa! Rick says everyone has auctions with dozens of retractions!

Just like everyone buys a Mathewson ball in REA and then miraculously a few months later it ends up being auctioned by said person with a shill underbid for EXACTLY what he paid for it! Happens all the time!

It's hard to argue with the 'everyone else...' logic. Glad to say I've never had to use it.

This is not the greatest lemming cartoon, but it has my name in it.

http://www.sniffandmark.com/wp-conte...ng-cartoon.gif

Oh come on. I gave the board all day to let the comment bump the thread. No suprise it didn't. Everyone has a really loud voice up until now, and then when the email blast from the board goes out, all you heare are crickets about it?

Seems hypocritical to me.

Not one person on here feels that the board shouldn't perpetuate Rick's auctions and drive more business to him, knowing he is 'turning a blind eye' so they can be defrauded by shill bidders?

You guys are laughable. "The silence is deafening."

kevin quinn

Not a clue what you are talking about...

The email that went out today from the board:
kevin quinn

Oh my God...The hits keep on coming....

What the hell is a slince??

I don't know, but it is deafening.

I personally delete those without ever reading. I do understand what you are saying but Leon has said he thinks Rick does not let it(shilling) happen on purpose and it is his forum and his mass email he is making $ for sending out. I am guessing he is making money for the advertising or at least hope he is.

So who do you think we should be outraged against? Rick for advertising or Leon for sending out the email.

i corrected the typo, for all of you who are fixated on my typographical error.

kevin

I'm commenting about how the peanut gallery that is always is on these threads never turn their eyes inward. If they are so focused on the hobby and making sure that no one is getting defrauded, then why hasn't anyone made the comment that I did.

Where are all of the probstien hating activists, making the comment that I made. Clearly it is a double edged sword, the peanut gallery is swinging?

Other business, chose, for the reputation of their own business to not do business with certian people as it brings their own reputation down. Think about any professional sports endorser. Think about all of the other mishaps, with television and other large companies.

Should the board set an example and not perpetuate the problem, knowing their is no activisim in the time of a growing problem?

kevin quinn

I think just about anyone should be allowed to advertise here, except that guy that used to scream, "You're gonna get the Mcgwire Rookie!" on HSN.

Kevin- not really sure where you're coming from....Posts about Probstein have been going on since Godzilla was a lizard. What exactly is your stance, and even more important, your solution?

+1, that idiot wore me out....

So even if Rick allows it to happen, by not proactively finding and fixing the problem, you think the board should allow him to advertise hear to the other members? What if that member doesn't see the posts and gets shill bidded on. You wouldn't say that the board has a moral responsibility to its users and readers?

Kevin

Tucking fypos :(

My stance has been pretty clear.

1) Not everything the guy does is bad. Not every card is suspect.

2) He should do more about the problem.

3) Conversation about Rick's auctions, going back to Godzilla's infancy is worthless if the board is going to actively keep sending customers to him.

Kevin

Kevin- First of all, I think bid shilling is a big problem in the hobby, and a big percentage of collectors have been guilty of it. But it's not the biggest problem in the hobby, far from it. I have never done it, and I'm proud of that...I have bought tons of T206s over the past several years, and I always had a pretty good idea of where my stopping point is. Nevertheless, it is a bogus act, and should be treated as such. Having said that, I honestly think there are a huge percentage of big auctions that have this going on.... big time, IMO....

Concur. It's widespread, but in my opinion there are significantly bigger problems.

Giddy Up :D:D:D

lol.

So now there are bigger problems? What problems are bigger?

You are always on these threads. Do you a believe the board should sell advertising to Rick given he is turning a blind eye or not?

What is your opinion?

Kevin

I agree with kevin on this one...shocker!!!:eek:

The Board? I get what you are saying about responsibility to the hobby. In fact, I am bidding on a couple of Pastels as we speak and the two parties I am bidding against are stopping me from budding what I would like as I suspect shilling (and it is not a Probstein auction). One bidder has 85% of bids with this seller, the other bidder has multiple retractions. Paranoia is taking over, I am out.

But I digress. The Board? Isn't this Leon's forum? Are you suggesting we make our feelings known to Leon? Doesn't he know? Should we boycott the board?

I will say this. The comments from members on this thread, among others, has made me extremely cautious and sensitive about shills. Maybe too much, in fact. Keep it coming, I'll keep learning and I thank you all for that.

Keith

But then again... Eliminating advertisers with a history of shadiness would eliminate A good portion of the advertisers?!

Thanks Pete....I guess??

The other kevin!:D

Card doctoring, to me, is a far bigger problem. As for ads, personally, I have seen enough from several folks that I would just as soon they not advertise here. But on the other hand that's easy for me to say because it's not my Board or my livelihood, and if it were, I might require more proof, or be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. The most important thing is that Rick's status as an advertiser not affect the level of scrutiny given to his auctions insofar as we have visibility into them (and we have less every day thanks to ebay), and hopefully it won't.

Not everything Ted Bundy did was bad either. After all, he did volunteer work and saved a 3 yr old boy from drowning. (No, I'm NOT comparing shilling to murder; simply making a point that doing good doesn't always justify doing bad)

We all agree with you there

I actually agree with you there. At least until the Panky situation is cleared up I don't agree with advertising P123 either.

Indeed. :D:D:D

I received teh e mail from Leon about the Probstein auction. I read it, laughed and then deleted it.

As far as receiving e mails like that about a person who has negative issues surrounding them, I would rather not. However, if Leon feels OK with doing it then there isn't much I can do about it.

Now, if Leon sent out advertising e mails like that and THEN deleted and or banned people from giving negative comments about the person or company that was advertising (like what happens on the CU board that I hear about) then I would have a REAL problem with it.

David S.mith

The board is a community and has a governing set of rules and people that enforce the rules. Much like government. If the people who live under the rules are not happy they get voiced, changed or people leave.

Not really any different here on the board. If the number of users fell off because of discontent, then the value of the ad spot would decrease you might see something like that happen.

I'm surprised I was the one that had to do it. I understand its his business and I'm not even suggesting he not sell Rick the ad spot...per say.

I'm merely calling attention to the duality here.

What could easily happen is to say... We will sell you the ad but let's see some of these wonderful ideas get done. Then it's a win for everyone and Rick sees there is business peer level push back. That goes a lot further, than taking care of one issue at a time, after things have already happened and they are pointed out to him. It would start to let him know there are social consequences in the business community for ignoring the issues brought forth.

Makes sense right?


Kevin

Exactly what Peter said
 

I agree 100%. With his last post.

I took the email as a call-to-arms to Peter, that I received by mistake.

Oh, you mean like a Bat signal type of thing? :-)

David

1) Shilling is illegal/immoral
2) P123 condones shilling
3) P123 (finish this logical sequence)

D@V1D $H1P$EY

Still no replies from jeff, john or chris about their feelings on the emails.

They are all over these threads, not sure why they haven't spoken up yet.

Am i leaving anyone else, that is always on these threads off of that list?

Kevin

Kevin, I have never expressed an opinion of Rick or his auctions not once. Not sure why you're asking me to chime in? :confused:

Opinions I have expressed towards you….

I have expressed that I thought you suffered from a fascination with male genitalia, with all of your vulgar comments. Also I laughed at your top secret squirrel hobby behind the scenes efforts that you seem to always hint about. In a "nut" (get it squirrel joke) shell I have come to the overall conclusion that you are a walking pair of clown shoes.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...size/photo.png

To answer what I assume to be your question even with the advent of Probstein ad emails from Net54/Leon my opinions of you still stand as above.

Thanks for checking in, now I’ll let you get back to your top secret important hobby saving work.

Cheers,

John

I'm feeling left out, I didn't get the email.

I think this represents my position as well.

Edited to add: wait, I also think blah blah blazy blah.

Lolololol

The three of you just proved, that yes, I nor anyone else should care about the posts you throw onto these threads. I expected to hear your absolute outrage!

Thanks for confirming that for everyone else.

Kevin

Putz, first you claimed that simply ranting on these threads was worthless -- that your idiotic, every word misspelled initiatives were more worthwhile. Now you're telling us that ranting is better; probably because sitting at home masturbating all day is not the sort of initiative that actually stops fraud in the hobby.

Here's a clue: no one responds to your requests for information because you're a weird idiot.

Yeah pretty much my thoughts too....

I also have not been in on any of the Probstein threads once again short of to say exactly that....that you Kevin are an absolute holiday fruitcake.

I don’t say this out of anger nor bitterness. I simply claim this fact as a fact its 23 degrees outside on 12/12/13 at 8:47pm and I feel that Kevin is the kind of guy who has to be held back from chasing fire trucks yet doesn’t work with the fire department.