Fascinating stuff Jantz.

If I read you right, basically what you are saying is that sheet layout appears to have varied between backs. This would help to explain why this puzzle has been so difficult to piece together.

My Questions:

One
Are there any examples of a player with 3 different names on the top (his own plus two others) that all have the same back? (EX: All three from Piedmont 150-25)

If this exists it would seem to suggest that we may never figure out a true sheet layout because there were too many moving parts even within a print run for a single series of a single ad back in a single factory.

Two
Are there examples of identical two name on top players that are from different ad backs within the same series but from the same factory? (EX: Player A usually has player A above him but less frequently has an identical player B above him for both Piedmont 150-25 and Sweet Cap 150-25)

The existence of this seems plausible to me and would suggest that layout variation occurred between, and not within, factories.

Yet another wrinkle would be changes in layout between series and factory (EX: Pd 150-25 and SC 150-25 share a layout that is different than the shared layout by Pd 350-25 and SC 350-25).

I think that is enough rampant speculation for one post. Particularly because this may all have been covered in old threads (sorry if that is the case!).

I have an O'Leary SC 350-460, 42 overprint with O'Leary, Detroit on top. Name is cut off on bottom as well.

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...0-42-overprint
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images...charley-oleary

Bergen-Dooin
 

Another Piedmont 150... not as nice as a WaJo, but I'll still take it.

Nice card Erick! That WaJo isn't actually mine. It went for $800, which I actually think is a nice buy, but my money/focus was tied up elsewhere and I bowed out around $700. I posted it after the auction ended for posterity.

well what do you know...
 

Much to my surprise, as I was scanning cards from the lot, I realized that it wasn't Shipke on top of this card... a quick check, and I have another for the collection: Shipke-Griffith (also a Piedmont 150). Crazy!

Hmmm, I was thinking Shipke must be at the top of the sheet. But now it looks like that isn't the case. Here's mine:

Your shipke is from the top of the sheet. Either sheets were more complex with their layouts, or the layouts changed.

eRICK...........
 

En Fuego:eek:

I agree with Er!ck about the Shipke.

Nice cards Er!ck!

Two in one week. Do you think maybe you could let a few slip by for us other two different-name T206 collectors? :)

For those keeping score, this is the second T206 with Griffith (portrait) appearing on a two-different name T206.

The other was a Griffith (portrait) with Chase's name on the top. Piedmont 350 was the back.

I can't help it if they were both in the same lot! :)

T206 - 2 Names, 1 Card
 

Hi!

If anyone is STILL keeping track of these, I have a McGraw/Chesbro that I will post a picture of when it comes back from PSA...

If you could post up a scan it would be appreciated by me and probably a few other members.

Thanks

Yeah, at least a few of us are very interested in this topic.

Updates below:

As promised - scnas of my McGraw-Chesbro Piedmont 350 Card - now I gotta go and look closer to see if I missed any!

Enjoy!
Eggo

Thanks! That was a known combo, so it may be a second occurrence. Appreciate the scans.

Thanks Eggo for posting the scans!

Here is the other McGraw/Chesbro that was found. Same back as yours.

Hunter-Quinn (available for trade)

Hunter-Quinn
 

Hi Luke

Nice card!

Thanks for posting it


Jantz

This Young just came up in the Saco preview. I thought it was "HOOKER" at the top, but it doesn't look like Lynchburg after the comma, so I'm not sure who it is.

<img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/-4OuakaB56wI/VNkP71JXRVI/AAAAAAABKDk/wLmrSZzvqN4/s800/53_1.JPG">

Looks like Rucker, Brooklyn, maybe?

Spot on, Ed - nice one.

Thanks for posting this Trae!

That's a nice card!

List Update
 

Updating Jantz list again... updates in RED

American Beauty 350 framed
Hinchman, H. - Taylor

Cycle 350
Beck - Unglaub

El Principe De Gales
Young - Rucker

Piedmont 150
Bender (port.) - Delehanty (Wash.)
Brown, M (port.) - Magee (port.)
Bradley (port.) - Bender (port.)
Killian (pitching) - Chance (red port.)
Lindaman - Bresnahan (port.)
Lundgren (Cubs) - Doolin
Lundgren (Cubs) - Ball (New York)
Powell (horizontal) - O'Leary (port.)
Spade - Cicotte
Hinchman, B. - Stovall (port.)
Manning (batting) - Flick
Walsh - Seymour (batting)
Johnson (port.) - Schlei (catching)
Bergen (bat) - Dooin
Shipke - Griffith

Piedmont 350
Abbaticchio (brown) - Cicotte
Atz - Hoffman (Providence)
Chase (blue port.) - Zimmerman
Hoblitzell - Stephens
Jennings (port.) - Jordan (port.)
Livingstone - Maloney
McElveen - Dygert
Elberfeld (NY port.) - Parent
Engle - Phillippe
McGraw (no cap port.) - Chesbro
Moran, H. - Arrellanes
Oakes - Easterly
Snodgrass (batting) - Maddox
Rossman - McBride
Turner - Lobert
Egan - Warhop
Herzog (NY) - Ritchey
McGinley - Speaker
Griffith (port.) - Chase (?)
Jackson - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Butler - Raymond
McIntyre (Detroit) - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Walsh - Brown, M (port.)
Chance (yellow port.) - Feine (?)
Delehanty (Wash.) - Waddell (port.)
Hunter - Quinn

Sweet Caporal 350-30
Barbeau - Strang
Graham (St. Louis) - Clark (Columbus)
Killian (port.) - Dubuc
McGlynn - Jones (Detroit)
Rossman - Thomas
Wagner, Heinie (left shoulder) - Schlei (catching)

Sweet Caporal 350-25
Lennox - Clancy

Sweet Caporal - factory number unknown
McGraw (front ?) - Hayden
Pickering - Myers (front )
Bowerman - Chance (front ?)

The rest - back information unknown or damaged
Walsh - Lumley Piedmont (back damage - no series number)
Bresnahan (port.) - Doolin
Criger - Ritchey
Keeler (front ?) - McGraw (front ?)

Here's my Graham Schreck

Nice card Cain!

Thank you for posting it

Can I get a confirmation on the factory number? Looks like a #30 to me.

Interesting if it is a factory #30 since another Graham (St. Louis) was found with Clark on top.


Jantz

Pretty sure it's graham-clark; i previously owned it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey Erick I think you are right. I always thought it was Schreck. I attached a better scan.

It is #30 but I think Erick is right its Clark on the top.

Did anyone get the Ginger Beumont with Seymour on top from e-bay last night? I don't see that on the list. Piedmont 150 back.

Possibly members were waiting for the auctions to end before posting about them.

I say "auctions" because there were two T206s with two different names being auctioned this week on Ebay.

Beaumont - Seymour
Ganzel - Downs


J@ntz

I was waiting, too. :)

The price was crazy! Maybe that's the norm, but I didn't expect that! Beautiful card nonetheless

Those are the prices you pay when you're a loyal customer.

In other news, the Ganzel - Downs sold for $119


J@ntz

Or brainwashed [emoji33]

The Beaumont/Seymour is a pretty special card. There was one P150 sheet that was cut like that, and possibly only one row of one sheet. So far, I've seen a pink Chase, and Elberfeld portrait with names on top and bottom. This is the first two namer from the sheet that I've seen. I was predicting $600+.

How do we know there was only one P150 sheet cut like that? I don't doubt that, but kinda hard to know for sure, right? :confused:

Obviously I'm not certain. All we can do is research this set, form our hypotheses and go from there. This particular cut is very memorable to me, and I've only seen 3. To me, that's enough to be confident that this particular sheet is one-of-a-kind. I could be wrong of course, but I'm personally confident enough to state it as a fact.

I was actively bidding on the card, but decided to let it go. Nice card.

I was watching with my mouse unplugged so I couldn't place a bid.

That was a real nice card. Both names fully visable is rare

Is the Lundgren/Ball confirmed & confirmed a P150? Going back through the thread I was unsure, seemed there were questions. No doubt there was some re-arranging of the subjects on various runs, it would surprise however to have it occur within group 1. If there are multiple matches with Lundgren w/in P150 what can we learn from a two name census?

Steve, The Lundgren/Ball is a PD 150.

Really cool card. Really.

I'm convinced this one is a 2-namer (because the commas at the top and bottom of the card don't line up vertically) but I don't think there is enough text there to figure out who is on top.

Figured I'd post it here just in case somebody wanted to take a look at it. I haven't given up, but have had no luck yet.

Just saw this thread get bumped, and had to post my 1st Cobb. I showed it in the Feb pickups thread. It is 'not graded'. It has his name at the top and bottom printed very clearly. I was so excited to get this. Plan on keeping this 'raw' and in a large screwdown holder.

[IMG]http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...s5drhh0h3.jpeg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/...si9jae3bh.jpeg[/IMG]

I can't tell if this is a Griffith on top or a different name.

http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/y...sojlp81ho.jpeg

http://i792.photobucket.com/albums/y...pssnhwguyx.jpg

Tom C

95% sure it is "Chase, N.Y. Amer." on top... interesting because I used to own a Griffith-Chase with a Piedmont 350 back. Very interesting because this is the first Old Mill reported and I also believe the first time the same combo (potentially with multiple Chase) has appeared in a second back/series.

Nice pickup Tom! I saw that on Beckett's auction and wondered if it was a different name on top. I'm not a T206 guy but hoped the eventual buyer would notice, glad you did!

I got it more due to the tough front/back combo. The possibility of a two name card was more in the background.

Sure hope Erick is right as all of these that I buy are for resale and that would help me greatly!

Tom C

2 new pickups for the thread. Both featuring Hal Chase. The white cap has Jacklitsch up top, and the Old Mill Griffith is indeed Chase, either pink portrait or white cap.

Nice cards Luke!

Thank you for posting them

I think I've narrowed this one down to 3 options. I believe the top one of these three players:

Berger, Cleveland
Goode, Cleveland
Joss, Cleveland

If anybody is interested and wants to take a look and see if they agree, that would be cool.

Edit: better pic on the way

Wanted to add a newly discovered one card, two name T206 that was on ebay yesterday. Shaw with Chappelle on top.

As of late I've been particularly good at missing out on these finds...the seller also had a raw factory 42 Hal Chase dark cap that went for a good price.

Anyone know what two names T206s go for? I couldn't tell if $200 was a strong price or someone got that for a steal. Just wasn't ready to put the money down as I have no idea what these rarities are worth. Either way, I hope a boardmember picked it up. Nice card :D

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206...vip=true&rt=nc

I missed it by $2.50. I didn't want to post about it because last time I saw a two namer close, I posted too fast, and Jantz scolded me (lol). I can tell you the card above the Chappelle is also Chappelle, because I have a Chappelle with same name top and bottom (well it is on it's way). I was really hoping to get this one, just for that reason. Oh well.

I think there's been a few significant T206 finds these last two days regarding the layout sheets what with the Larry Doyle with Ruelbach on the side posted about here http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=206045

And now we know Chappelle is above Shaw.

Jantz, you seem to be the wiz about these particular miscuts. What are these cards generally worth?

I won the card in question... it was one of the better examples (and the 5x eBay bucks helped nudge me higher); many of the ones that we've seen (especially lately) have been slivers of the name or real beaters. The prices really vary. A sliver of a name (that most people can't make out) may only go for around $100... whereas something with a clearly visible top name may go over $300... and anything with a hall of famer or rare back maybe even more.

Congrats Erick. I put in a $152 snipe but that is not representative since I don't collect double/different names.

Erick, I am so glad it was you! I bid $200.09. I was really wanting to put it together with my Chappelle/Chappelle that I just bought off the B/S/T. I thought it was destiny, but alas, no. I seem to be the bridesmaid on a lot of different items this week. Congrat's, it is a definite keeper!

Ed, does your Chappelle/Chappelle have the same back as the Chappelle/Shaw?

No, it's a Sweet Cap 350. But the two would look so cool lined up together.

Nice get Erick!

Recently, Pat R showed that each player was likely printed 9 in a row vertically. This is why there are plenty of cards with the same name on top and bottom, and very few 2 different namers.

Kind of like this?
http://www.collectorfocus.com/upload...ossman-004.jpghttp://www.collectorfocus.com/upload...ossman-005.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Something more like this, with another Chappelle on top (and better scans from actually having the cards in hand, and a little tweeking to line them all up, because you can with raw cards). You get the idea.

The Nasty Nati - Prices for two different namers vary as Er!ck has mentioned. 5-7 years ago I was buying them with no premium. The Spade posted below was picked up at the first Baltimore National for under $30. Two hundred dollars in my opinion is a good price. It would have gone higher if I had seen it.

edjs - Sorry if it sounded like I was scolding you. Another case of me offering helpful advice, just worded badly. :) Since you didn't win the Shaw/Chappelle, maybe you can get another Chappelle/Chappelle with a different back. It happens quite a bit with miscuts. A collector could possibly do a back run with a same name miscut T206. Take a look at the Donovans below.

Er!ck - Why didn't you PM me before the auction ended? You know that you are my favorite board member to bid against! ;) Nice card! I'm happy to see it go into your collection.

Jantz

Jantz, if any cards I post ever interest you, and either Spade or Lindaman are ever available. please let me know. Amazing cards!

Jantz, you did notice the lol in (), right? I seem to have forgotten the three to five day after auction rule for e-bay that day. (Lol).

Luke - Thank you for the comment. If the Spade ever becomes available I will keep you mind. The chances are slim though. I really like the two different namers. The Lindaman is already reserved.

Ed - Oh yes, I saw the "lol". Its all good my friend.


Jantz

Updated list
 

I believe this captures the updates (in RED):

American Beauty 350 framed
Hinchman, H. - Taylor

Cycle 350
Beck - Unglaub

El Principe De Gales
Young - Rucker

Old Mill
Griffith (port.) - Chase (?)

Piedmont 150
Bender (port.) - Delehanty (Wash.)
Brown, M (port.) - Magee (port.)
Bradley (port.) - Bender (port.)
Killian (pitching) - Chance (red port.)
Lindaman - Bresnahan (port.)
Lundgren (Cubs) - Doolin
Lundgren (Cubs) - Ball (New York)
Powell (horizontal) - O'Leary (port.)
Spade - Cicotte
Hinchman, B. - Stovall (port.)
Manning (batting) - Flick
Walsh - Seymour (batting)
Johnson (port.) - Schlei (catching)
Bergen (bat) - Dooin
Shipke - Griffith
Beaumont - Seymour

Piedmont 350
Abbaticchio (brown) - Cicotte
Atz - Hoffman (Providence)
Chase (blue port.) - Zimmerman
Hoblitzell - Stephens
Jennings (port.) - Jordan (port.)
Livingstone - Maloney
McElveen - Dygert
Elberfeld (NY port.) - Parent
Engle - Phillippe
McGraw (no cap port.) - Chesbro
Moran, H. - Arrellanes
Oakes - Easterly
Snodgrass (batting) - Maddox
Rossman - McBride
Turner - Lobert
Egan - Warhop
Herzog (NY) - Ritchey
McGinley - Speaker
Griffith (port.) - Chase (?)
Jackson - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Butler - Raymond
McIntyre (Detroit) - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Walsh - Brown, M (port.)
Chance (yellow port.) - Feine (?)
Delehanty (Wash.) - Waddell (port.)
Hunter - Quinn
Ganzel - Downs
Chase (White Cap) - Jacklitsch
Shaw - Chappelle

Sweet Caporal 350-30
Barbeau - Strang
Graham (St. Louis) - Clark (Columbus)
Killian (port.) - Dubuc
McGlynn - Jones (Detroit)
Rossman - Thomas
Wagner, Heinie (left shoulder) - Schlei (catching)

Sweet Caporal 350-25
Lennox - Clancy

Sweet Caporal - factory number unknown
McGraw (front ?) - Hayden
Pickering - Myers (front )
Bowerman - Chance (front ?)

The rest - back information unknown or damaged
Walsh - Lumley Piedmont (back damage - no series number)
Bresnahan (port.) - Doolin
Criger - Ritchey
Keeler (front ?) - McGraw (front ?)

including eBay images of two so they are not lost:

Just noticed this one. My Griffith/Chase OM proves that the sheet placement for these two subjects didn't change when they printed different backs.

A new one, Turner/O'Leary PD 350

Miller-Orth OMSL can also be added to the list.

Pat & Chris

Thanks for posting those 2 new two-namers.

Both are interesting, especially since the SLer is a first.


Jantz

Man, I wanted that Turner (not quite enough though I guess). Did anyone on here get it?

Yes ;)

Nice Jantz!

Lake (New York) - Pastorius Piedmont 150 can be added.

McGraw (Glove at hip) - Piedmont 350-460
 

Sorry - Scanner is having trouble with the plastic from the TPG holder...Might be time to crack it out.

8/24/2015 Updates
 

I believe this captures the updates (in RED):

American Beauty 350 framed
Hinchman, H. - Taylor

Cycle 350
Beck - Unglaub

El Principe De Gales
Young - Rucker

Old Mill (Baseball Series)
Griffith (port.) - Chase (?)

Old Mill (Southern League)
Miller - Orth

Piedmont 150
Beaumont - Seymour
Bender (port.) - Delehanty (Wash.)
Bergen (bat) - Dooin
Brown, M (port.) - Magee (port.)
Bradley (port.) - Bender (port.)
Hinchman, B. - Stovall (port.)
Johnson (port.) - Schlei (catching)
Killian (pitching) - Chance (red port.)
Lindaman - Bresnahan (port.)
Lundgren (Cubs) - Doolin
Lundgren (Cubs) - Ball (New York)
Manning (batting) - Flick
Pastorius - Lake (NY)
Powell (horizontal) - O'Leary (port.)
Shipke - Griffith
Spade - Cicotte
Walsh - Seymour (batting)

Piedmont 350
Abbaticchio (brown) - Cicotte
Atz - Hoffman (Providence)
Butler - Raymond
Chance (yellow port.) - Feine (?)
Chase (blue port.) - Zimmerman
Chase (White Cap) - Jacklitsch
Delehanty (Wash.) - Waddell (port.)
Egan - Warhop
Elberfeld (NY port.) - Parent
Engle - Phillippe
Ganzel - Downs
Griffith (port.) - Chase (?)
Herzog (NY) - Ritchey
Hoblitzell - Stephens
Hunter - Quinn
Jackson - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Jennings (port.) - Jordan (port.)
Livingstone - Maloney
McElveen - Dygert
McGinley - Speaker
McGraw (no cap port.) - Chesbro
McIntyre (Detroit) - Hoffman (St. Louis)
Moran, H. - Arrellanes
Oakes - Easterly
Rossman - McBride
Shaw - Chappelle
Snodgrass (batting) - Maddox
Turner - Lobert
Turner - O'Leary
Walsh - Brown, M (port.)

Sweet Caporal 350-30
Barbeau - Strang
Graham (St. Louis) - Clark (Columbus)
Killian (port.) - Dubuc
McGlynn - Jones (Detroit)
Rossman - Thomas
Wagner, Heinie (left shoulder) - Schlei (catching)

Sweet Caporal 350-25
Lennox - Clancy

Sweet Caporal - factory number unknown
Bowerman - Chance (front ?)
McGraw (front ?) - Hayden
Pickering - Myers (front )

The rest - back information unknown or damaged
Bresnahan (port.) - Doolin
Criger - Ritchey
Keeler (front ?) - McGraw (front ?)
Walsh - Lumley Piedmont (back damage - no series number)

I've got one. Hard to get the name on top though. Not much there.
Another Lake, but this is a SC 150/649.

Just thought I'd post it.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k...psvreqe4tw.jpg

Nice cards guys; note that this thread is about two different names on the same card.