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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>BTW,<br />I still disagree with you above. I think it's semantics though. You said that factually and legally it's wrong to do something off of ebay that is illegal. I sort of agree. My comment was geared more towards what realistically happens. Realistically I am sure many deals are broken and illegal. That is a fact. Just read above as Jamie and the seller had a deal. It was a legal deal. It was broken and would probably be found to be illegal to be undone by one party. The fact is though that it was undone. So factually I disagree with you.....legally, of course you are correct. I am in an argumentative mood <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....btw, there are not too many lawyers on the board that I respect more than Kenny and Adam.....so I always bow to their wisdom.....(but might still argue just to be an arse)<br /><br />edited typo

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Leon - I think we are dealing with semantics here. <br /><br />The original comment was "off ebay = no rules".<br /><br />Well, there are rules. That is a fact. It is also a fact that the rules are often broken, as was the case here.<br /><br />By the way - Im sorry to see I dont fall into your top two list - must be my University of Pheonix law school education <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>At least you made the cut at Phoenix... I'm not so certain that other fellow passed Phonics.

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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Didn't you always find it ironic that "phonics" starts with a "ph" instead of an "f"?

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Posted By: <b>Jeff S.</b><p>And Frank - the image provided above, although cropped, does appear to have the reverse flipped. That small corner crease on the front upper-left is also apparent on the back upper-right.

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>"Bulldog" go and wash your nose. lol<br /><br /><br />Steve<br /><br /><br />edited to add: Son

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Posted By: <b>Jamie</b><p>heres a new question i would like to ask.. if the card got sent into SGC.. im not sure where the seller is sending it.. but what grade would SGC give... I noticed it looks like small paper loss on the top middle right of the back of the card... andy idea? sgc 20 or 30?<br />

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>hey boxingcardman nice try but no dice the value or price of the item in question is not the issue nor is it being argued that it is the basis for the voidance of the contract it was never a valid contract because the buyer and the seller did not agree on what was being bought and sold and therefore there was never a meeting of the minds the price that the seller assigned to the item only serves to prove that the seller did not understand what he was selling as he priced it appropriately for the item he [incorrectly] thought he was selling. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>kenny and jk i will take your comments as a admittance of defeat thanks for playing boys. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>hey steve winpitcher good to hear from you again please tell your dad levi i said hello. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>Jamie</b><p>George Mad-dog bulldog<br />I the buyer.. had agreed to purchase the sellers t206 young card with an upside down background.. the seller knew exactly what he was selling.. so dont give me that line of crap... the value was in question nothing else

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Posted By: <b>Kenny Cole</b><p>"Bull****," er, "bulldog," that would simply mean that your reading comprehension "ability," to the extent it exists, is even less advanced than your writing and reasoning skills. While I frankly didn't think that was possible, you have now proven me wrong.<br /><br />Fear not though. I've heard that there are places that specialize in helping those types of problems. Sylvan Learning Center comes to mind. It did wonders for my neighbor's six year-old. Maybe you should explore that. I think the odds are better than 50-50 that if you give maximum effort you can get your reading comprehension skills up to at least the level of my neighbor's six year-old by this time next year.<br /><br />You are a prime example of the old adage that it is better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove the point. Since you have failed miserably at pretending to be a lawyer, for your next act maybe you can pretend to be a brain surgeon. That might be easier. After all, you seem to have successfully removed yours. Have a good day.<br /><br />Kenny Cole

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Posted By: <b>Mike Mccullough</b><p>If you already made the deal why would you come on the board and ask everyone if you made a good deal and if the card was real???? Seems to me you knew exactly what you were doing... <br /><br />As soon as you got some advice from fellow board members what was your intentions?? Were you going to email the seller and offer him more $$$ or to ask for a discount and or try and rework the deal..??? <br /><br />In the scheme of things its really nothing to be uptight about.. You almost got a heck of a deal.. Sometimes ignorance is truly bliss. JMO <br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Troll alert!

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Bulldog,<br /><br />Since I cant say it any clearer than Kenny, I will try to put this in language that a 6 year old might understand: Ditto.

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Bulldog,<br /><br />If you want to pretend to be a lawyer a bit longer, Ive found a nice case for you to read:<br /><br />Wood v Boynton, 225 N.W. 42 [1885] <br /><br />Since your reading comprehension needs work, Ive summarized the case for you:<br /><br />Relevant Facts: Defendant is in the jewelry business. Plaintiff was the owner of a small stone - the nature and value of which she was ignorant. Pl sold the stone to the Def for $1. Afterward Pl learned that the stone was actually a roughcut diamond (she was under the impression that the stone was a common piece of topaz) and was worth about $700 and attempted to tender the $1 plus $.10 interest to the Def demanding the return of the stone. Def refused. <br /><br />Legal Issue(s): Whether the Pl could rescind the sale of the uncut diamond upon discovery that the stone was something other than she believed it to be when sold and worth considerably more than the price paid?<br /><br />Court’s Holding (and please pay attention here): No <br /><br />Law or Rule(s): The only reasons for rescinding a sale and revesting title for the recovery of possession against the vendee are 1) that the vendee was guilty of some fraud in procuring the sale to be made to him; 2) that there was a mistake made by the vendor in delivering an article which was not the article sold, - a mistake in fact as to the identity of the thing sold with the thing delivered. <br /><br />Court Rationale: The Pl’s own evidence shows that she was not induced to make the sale she did by any fraud or unfair dealings on the part of the Def. Both were entirely ignorant at the time of the character and nature of the stone and its intrinsic value. If she chose to sell it w/o further investigation as to its intrinsic value to a person who was guilty of no fraud or unfairness which induced her to sell it for a small sum, she cannot repudiate the sale afterwards b/c she ascertained that she made a bad bargain. There was no warranty made and unless Pl could show that Pl had been told it was a diamond or that the Def knew the stone was a diamond, there could be no rescission based on fraud. In the absence of fraud or warranty, the value of the property sold, as compared with the price paid, is no ground for a recission of a sale.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hmmm...I know that topaz can sometimes be mistaken for a diamond, but I wonder how often a jeweler really makes that mistake?

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>even though i`m sure my little friend jk doesn`t even realize that his most recent post completely backfired on him i would like to thank him for confirming that there was never a valid contract between blunder and the seller of the cy young card jk i will give you a hint re-read the 2nd sentence of the court rationale 3 or 4 times and then re-read the 2nd to last sentence of the court rationale 8 or 9 times and if you still can`t figure it out i will explain it very slowly to you. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>would also like to point out that jk was not being truthful about writing that summary he copy pasted from <a href="http://www.4lawschool.com/contracts/wood.shtml" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.4lawschool.com/contracts/wood.shtml</a> . bulldog

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Posted By: <b>Ken Wirt</b><p>I just wanna know one thing here: Why are 1976 Topps cards cool?

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Bulldog you still acting like a fool?<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>Including this post, you guys are still 634 posts short. <br /><br />Weak. <br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>My money is on Adam W. as it was once before and I am batting 1000 !!

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Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Wow bulldog - you really are quite the detective. Sorry for not being more precise by stating "Ive provided a summary for you" - Now, if you could only learn how to read.<br /><br />Try reading the rule of law: "The only reasons for rescinding a sale and revesting title for the recovery of possession against the vendee are 1) that the vendee was guilty of some fraud in procuring the sale to be made to him." There was no fraud here.

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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I never thought I'd say this, but can we possibly hear the story about Lionel Carter's Plank again?

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jeff, LMAO....

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Are we still wasting our time on Lapdog and his wannabe lawyering? If he wants to pay my rate we can argue some more, otherwise I've got better things to do. <br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>Are we still wasting our time on Lapdog and his wannabe lawyering?<br /><br /><br />LMAO<br /><br /><br />Steve

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Posted By: <b>Eric B</b><p>If I'm not mistaken, this is the first thread where everyone agrees that someone (Bulldog) is incorrect. Usually someone agrees with both sides.<br /><br />I wonder what the buyer thought he was purchasing for $300 and what the seller thought he was selling for $300 if it wasn't the T206 Cy Young card previously listed on Ebay.

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>i heard dan mckee just tried to place a bet on the rockies to win the 2007 world series. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>not even close jk let me know if you want a few more hints son. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>george &quot;bulldog&quot; adams</b><p>hey boxingcardman if you are sure you can handle being further humiliated i`d be happy to dig through my couch for some loose change to pay your 'rate'. bulldog

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p> While your down there digging, perhaps you'll run across that missing Lithium bottle. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p> Bulldope err dog it really is time for you to wash your nose, son.<br /><br /><br />And, while you are at it take a course in writing, your skills are no better then a 7 yr. old.<br /><br /><br />Geez I thought mine were bad.<br /><br /><br />Try using punctuation and maybe some sentence structure would be nice.<br /><br /><br />Dog Warden <br /><br />Win<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>David Poses</b><p>I didn't have access to my computer all weekend and am now reading through this tale of mystery and intrigue. For what its worth, this is the most entertaining thread I've read on the board in a long time. I didn't learn anything new about the hobby, but I picked up all kinds of legal information, and what could possibly beat Leon's "turd in the wading pool" analogy?<br />

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Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>Is that a bad bet on my part? I like Colorado for last years World Series, did I win?

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Posted By: <b>Darren</b><p>I always heard it as "a turd in a punchbowl" <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>David Poses</b><p>i'm thinking that a turd anyplace one was not expecting or wanting a turd is rarely (if ever) viewed as anything but unsavory at best

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I read that post and just started laughing while sitting here at my desk....."unsavory" to say the least.....

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Posted By: <b>Bob Pomilla</b><p>I see this thread is headed down the toilet.

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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>you might find your meds...do us all a favor and take them this time.<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: <b>Jamie</b><p>to quote one of my all time fav movies... "are you not entertained?"<br />

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Posted By: <b>Joseph Shirley</b><p>If there is any blame to be placed here, it should be levied against the Seller. The seller is the one that breached his contract with you. A straight up seller would have left the money on the table, and honored his commitmnet to sell the item to you. Blaming another buyer for fighting for a card the same way you did is misplaced anger in my opinion.

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Posted By: <b>pat</b><p>to me this reminds me of the stories where a person walks up to sell a dealer some cards at a show (or store) and a bystander jumps in the conversation and offers more than the dealer. i personally would never interfere with someone else's deal. you cant put a price on morals. well, i guess some people can.