Not a dealer, but I bought a low end N28 Tim Keefe from Ash at the 2023 Strongsville show. In the few minutes it took me to check out the card and think about how much I wanted to offer I watched people buy a high grade 53 Topps Satchel Paige and a T206 green Cobb. This year I asked his son to see a card and the guy next to me was buying a Goudey Ruth. I'd say plenty of the cards get sold on-site.

You are correct, Ashsh is one good dude and does not deserve idiots implying things that are so far fetched. I hope they find the perps and recover all his inventory.

Thoughts on contacting pawn shops:
1. Use the carrot - the $70k reward - as a way to possibly get their help and report the cards if they see them.
2. Use the stick - by contacting them, they are on notice that if they buy stolen cards, they could be an accessory to a crime in addition to being prosecuted for receiving stolen property.
3. Additionally, any person that the pawn shop sells the cards to has acquired stolen property, so they are not good faith owners of the property and would likely have to return that property.
4. Pawn shops could be subject to civil litigation to the card owners for conversion of property.

Sometimes, threats and warnings can deter unlawful conduct.

Completely agree. Ash and his son have always been first class in my interactions. Hoping for the best for him.

Chad

Lots of shops to contact. Get six people willing to call and text non-stop for several days. Divide and conquer by region. IMO, small price to pay for a $2M loss. It’s worth a shot.

How do you propose he contact 11,000 pawn shops?

Same way you eat an elephant. One bite at a time.

But yeah, calling 11k shops isn't feasible. The best thing is to continually show as much of these guys faces as possible. Someone will most assuredly see these pics and know one of the perps, at least.

With their faces all over, sooner or later they will get caught. The investigation will be silent in tracking these guys, as it should be. My guess is it won't take long. Remember the idiot at the hotel we were just talking about a few weeks ago? I just hope they haven't ruined the cards.

If the cards are taken to a pawn shop, there's a chance they might get identified and returned. I don't know about other states, but in California pawn shops require a valid form of identification for everyone wishing to sell or pawn an item. All intake transactions, and every item's serial number along with a detailed description, are forwarded to law enforcement and checked through a stolen property reports database.

These cards aren’t going to a pawn shop.

Yeah, in the Memory Lane theft thread, I didn't understand it either. Focus should be on the criminals, merchandise, and how the theft occurred. Sympathy for the victim, until proven otherwise.

+1

If I had to bet, I would say these thieves already had buyers lined up or potential buyers. IMO, a good portion of the sports card industry is driven by collectors who have a network of buyers and sellers. So IMO, the really rare / high end stuff would likely end up in private collections and stay there for years. The other stuff will be cracked open, and then either sold raw or regraded.

I just called ten pawn shops in several big cities. Most will not take cards, but two said they will. One said they only take graded cards that are numbered, and one said they take raw or graded.

All it takes is for one of these cards to be discovered, and then the whole scheme could unravel.

There was a debate of whether Memory Lane should have continued to auction off the cards after they were stolen. If Ash were to auction these stolen cards off now I imagine there would be a similar debate.

Do people really think the cards would end up at a pawn shop? The people who stole these cards seemed to target the case, and I'm guessing it was because they understood the value of what was inside. For them to understand cards, they'd also have to understand how easy it is to track them with flip numbers, and they'd also have to know how little they'd get from a pawn shop.

I would struggle to make sense of the theft if the purpose of the theft was to received 10 to 15% of the cards actual value at a pawn shop.

What exactly is farfetched in your opinion? I don't see anyone accusing him of anything nefarious. I may have to go back and read. It horrible for him, but as i stated, it seems like he came out Hot and heavy after COVID to have an insane inventory.

Of all the places the cards could be sold, selling to a pawn shop would IMO be the last resort. But they have to be sold somewhere. Like pawn shops, card shops would also be a fairy low return.

However, I'd be willing to bet that some of these thieves are not the sharpest tools in the shed, and at some point might get desperate and make a mistake. If they have to pay a bill or some other expense, they may try to flip a couple of cards for quick cash. It's possible.

The main point is that to catch these guys, every option must be considered, no matter how remote. That's my belief anyway.

I was in well known card shop the other day, and a guy walked up to me while I was in the store and showed me some pictures on his phone of raw cards and asked if I would like to buy them. My first thought was that they were stolen. I just walked away.

Your theory is certainly possible.

It just seems like you're introducing a whole lot of co-conspirators into the process, which dramatically increases the likelihood of detection.

In theory, a single buyer might make more sense, just to keep the number of involved parties to a minimum. But when you look at the inventory here, just as one example, it's hard for me to imagine a single buyer who feels like they need a fist full of mostly low-grade 52 Mantles, and they're willing to risk prison to get them. Maybe a single 52 Mantle in PSA 8/9/10 or a high grade complete 52T set. Or pick your favorite high value and desireable grouping of cards that would slot into a nice collection to hold in perpetuity. While the stolen case of cards is certainly a very valuable grouping of cards, it doesn't scream out to me that some aspiring collector with a bunch of cash and shady morals would decide that they'd rather pick up this assortment of cards on the cheap for their own collection, because they're dying to have all of these specific cards.

I’d be really stunned if these jerks aren’t locked up by Friday. Someone knows them and will relish the opportunity to make their lives unpleasant. Could be an ex-wife, could be the neighbor you have been fighting with over a parking spot, could be the guy in high school you never paid back for beers. Exactly a zero chance they get away with this.

What if they're in Mexico by now?

Is there a big market for high value baseball cards in Mexico?

The cards could be with an accomplice, they could be anywhere.

The buyers don't know they are stolen.

For example, there is a card shop I know of that has a reputation - among a small community of collectors in my area - for dealing in stolen cards. He gets some really amazing cards...Babe Ruths, Cobbs, Michael Jordan's - all high end stuff. I always wondered how he always had such great inventory until one day another card shop owner said he sells hot cards. Well, I know for a fact that as soon as a great card walks in the door, that unscrupulous shop owner already has a buyer for the card. In fact, he has a network of high end collectors that routinely buy from him. They spend thousands each month. One quick phone call, and the card has been re-sold.

Once I figured this out, I stopped going to his shop.

+1

From the video evidence, these thieves were competent, bordering on professional. Competent/professional thieves avoid pawn shops. Speaking as a former pawn shop manager: While the exact steps and requirements vary by jurisdiction, in most cases, people selling or pawning items have to present a valid, government issued photo ID with name and address (which the shop makes a copy of and files) and get their picture taken (plus all the in-store security footage). In PA, records for all items that the store purchases or takes in on pawn are uploaded to law enforcement daily (exactly which law enforcement varies. Larger departments may actually have a pawn division which works exclusively with pawn/second hand stores. Rural areas often use the state police. Where I worked, there was a county detectives office and they got all the records)

Also, this means that at least in PA, if recovery of the items is your goal, you DO NOT WANT TO ALERT THE PAWN SHOP. If you alert the pawn shop, they won't buy or pawn it it (they legally aren't allowed to at that point), and they won't get the ID with name and address of the people who currently possess it (if you can think of a good cover story to get someone to hand over their ID and get their picture taken even though you're declining to take their items in, I'd love to hear it). You'll be no closer to getting your stuff back. If you don't alert the pawn shop, they'll buy/pawn it, law enforcement will see it on their daily report and notify the shop they're seizing the items. Police will come to the shop, which will give them the stuff, the copy of the photo ID with name and address and the photo that they took, even download store security footage if the officer feels it's necessary. Since the form people have to sign (again this may be PA specific) states that they have the legal right to dispose of the property, the pawn shop will file a complaint for theft by deception which a) adds another charge to the perps and b) at least theoretically, is how the shop recovers its money. That does suck for the shop, as court ordered restitution is slow coming, but it's the quickest way for the victim to get their items back.

So there's a constant supply of stolen high end cards being sold in plain sight and this all just goes under the radar?

Call 100 a day for the next 110 days? ;)

Great info. So there you go. We've only learned this by asking questions. Again, the idea is to leave no stone unturned.

However, I wonder how closely the cops monitor the "daily report." I would think that stolen baseball cards are NOT high on their list of priorities. I would think it depends on jurisdiction and other factors.

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Yea,
thats a awful lot of photos of those guys, gotta be dozens of people who know who they are

There probably is variation based on jurisdiction. The folks I dealt with were pretty thorough.

While I agree that "baseball cards" in general is unlikely to jump to the top of anyone's priority list, in this particular case the "2 million+" under value of stolen property will jump out, and might trigger some extraordinary measures. There were times I was asked by LE to watch for certain items or people. I was given a phone number that, if it was safe to do so, I was to call and ask for "Nora" (Need Officer Right Away) and stall them until LE arrived. Never actually had to make a call, but you'd be surprised how many contingencies are planned for.

Yea, is that so surprising? Of course, the guy is smart and takes precautions. He does not ask any questions when he buys the cards, and he quickly sells them. In fact, I would think that even he does not know they are stolen.

One day, I was in the unscrupulous shop, and I heard the shop owner receive two calls in a span of 30 minutes. Both were from people who live out of town and were "just traveling through the area," and they had some high end cards to sell. One was a raw Jordan RC. The shop owner told him to bring it in. Now, I don't know for sure that the Jordan was stolen, but when a non-local person "just travelling through" comes into your store with a high end card (and perhaps sells it for 25% of book), then it begs the question of whether the card is stolen.

Hence, when I say he deals in hot cards, what I'm really saying is that he does not ask any questions when he buys even though he probably should.

Great info. Thanks

Have you considered alerting the authorities?

Entirely possible that they get these guys in custody before the cards are located. Assume LE is watching them. Not good when a clear shot of you committing a felony in on the national news.

Doesn't PSA mark their cards with some super secret invisible technology? If someone broke one of these cards out and resubmitted to PSA for a new number/holder, wouldn't an alarm go off?

What's puzzling is that assuming some planning went into this operation and these were not amateurs on a whim, as the coordination and clear targeting suggest, you would think these guys also had to know they would be on surveillance video.

I have, but at the end of the day, I have zero evidence. Only strong suspicion and hearsay. I have a house and a family, so I cannot take the chance that what I say could come back and bite me if you know what I mean.

After the memory lane recovery, the armchair cops think it is simple to find stolen goods "by Friday" . I wonder what the odds are of any goods being recovered? Granted, these are pretty High profile, but I'd imagine less than 1% of stuff is ever found.

They do put something like that on autographed items that are issued a full LOA but not slabbed. Don't think on everything, though.

It depends if they planned for phase 2 as carefully as phase 1.

I never heard that before. I'm not sure I'd appreciate a TPG marking my card in any way for any reason. What kind of research did anyone do to figure out how these marks age over time? The last thing I'd want on my cards is some blotch that appeared 15 years down the road.

One member of the gang will come to Jesus pretty quickly and realize they are not going to live happily ever after and will go to the authorities to hopefully save his hide to whatever extent possible.

Maybe just certain photos. See below from their website.

As part of our Autograph Authentication service, you will have the option of having the item encapsulated in one of our tamper-evident holders (holder sizes permitting) or certified with documentation. With that said, please make sure you are completing the appropriate form as there is one form for items you wish to be encapsulated (“Autograph Encapsulation Submission”) and one for items that do not require encapsulation (“Autograph Submission”). Please refer to the top-right corner of the form for the submission type.

When an item is certified with documentation (not encapsulation), we will apply our invisible, synthetic, DNA-laced ink to the item, in conjunction with our tamper-evident label and matching Certificate of Authenticity (COA) or Letter of Authenticity (LOA). This PSA/DNA security matrix will identify your collectible as certified.

I support Nic's theory that there is only buyer with a predetermined $ number payable to the thieves for the theft and delivery. To try and unload an inventory and value such as this card by card is a sure way to be discovered and arrested. If this is the correct scenario, the buyer/perp may just sit on them for years and they will be lost to the hobby.
I had a beautiful '33 Goudey Gehrig stolen at a Ft.Washington show and it tore me up for weeks. I can't imagine how Ash must feel and my heart goes out to him.

Bingo. There are too many witnesses, security pictures, and conspirators/thieves. It is only a matter of time before the Prisoner's Dilemma plays out.

It's done with autographed items in general... not limited to photos.

And no, there are no "invisible markings" done to slabbed cards.

Have you personally seen any proof of co-conspirators in the footage? I watched a few of the videos and saw one guy grab a case and walk out. If I was shown in the photos. Aside from Huge-o (sic) . I'd come out and say I had nothing to do with it....quickly as possible.

The three guys distracting the three employees are working in conjunction with the bag man. They have been seen on film scouting out the booth all day long, even going as far as changing clothes several times so as to appear to be different individuals. I would suspect while this was all going down they had one or two people stationed as lookouts, maybe at exits and/or even vehicles waiting close by outside. This was not a spurt of the moment grab and go, they planned this out well in advance from all signs.

A little off topic but I always chuckle at PSA. PSA is the supposed top authority on altered cards yet they alter your submissions by applying ink to your card.

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I have a question? What was their plan b?
They waited all day..how did they know whoever took the cards out of the display cases would put the cards in the carrying case and leave it on the floor?..if that person simply took the case with him.to the parking lot or just to his workers waiting for them to finish packing etc..what was the plan b?

There is one video where it's pretty clear two other guys are involved distracting Ashish's workers.