From this angle it sure looks to me like he moves in response to the shove. I would not call that barely touching and it looks intentional. Another angle would be interesting if you can find.

My apologies for prolonging this non-baseball diversion, but:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVGNmQSySvw

Look at 3:07

Yep, still a push-off.

Here's the thing about hand force: it can be deceiving. I once worked with a structural pest control expert on a construction defect case where water penetration had wrecked a 12' beam under a walkway in a condo complex. One of his favorite things to do in these wood rot cases was to take hold of the beam in a bare hand and pull and crumble chunks of it barehanded. An amazing and incredibly damning piece of evidence: beams that support entire walkways are not supposed to crumble in hand. Play that for a jury and watch the defense try to hide under the table. So i tried it, figuring that if this little guy (probably 150#) could crush a beam with one hand, my 6'4" 250# body could too. Guess what? I couldn't make a dent. Little bastard had hands like pistons. I have little doubt that all of these NBA players are tremendously strong and that what looks like a small push when MJ does it feels like a big push from me.

If Jordan pushed Russell, it would be evident from all angles. But the side view clearly refutes that theory. Look at Jordan's hand here as it makes contact with Russell's hip. It's a bump at most. The hand bounces off the hip and glides downward, bouncing off his calf. If he was pushing off, you would see Jordan's hand bend. You would see his fingers pressed into Russel's shorts/hip/ass cheek. You would see the hand pressing into Russell. But it doesn't. Not even a little bit. Jordan's fingers are straight. They don't even conform to Russell's hip at any point. Russell's jersey doesn't even move at all. And Jordan's hand just falls down. Jordan crossed him over big-time. Russell's own momentum is what takes him down. If you think this is some sort of Kung Fu Bruce Lee white magic move by Michael Jordan that sent Bryon Russell to the floor, then your license to argue anything on behalf of anyone in any court of law should be revoked because you are an idiot who is completely incapable of reason.


Skip to the 3:05 mark and just watch it on loop. This is absolutely irrefutable. He did not push off at all. He exerts effectively zero force on Bryon Russell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVGNmQSySvw

Thanks for posting I agree irrefutable. He pushed off.


....and I'm from Chicago.

Does it look like Russell accelerates after the touch? That to me would be key; from one angle it seems he does from the other less clear.

At least Doncic is playing in the pro's. I believe last night a Jasson Dominguez signed 1/1 Bowman refractor of some sort sold for $474K ( Golden Auctions ).

Never played above A ball, and wasn't that good in A ball.

GM's say he's a bit like Trout, Mantle......but those guys ripped the minor leagues.

Why wouldn't you just buy the Mantle card instead?

WC Fields, There's a sucker born every minute.

When you are already running in a particular direction if you get pushed slightly in the same direction it will have a much bigger effect than a shove if you were standing still. He pushed off.

I'm surprised Jordan wasn't arrested for assault

That Jasson Dominguez card at 474k is another mind-blowing sale, if real. The older I get, the more I find myself despising the modern card game— because that is what it is, just a get rich quick game that caters to the same adrenaline junkie vibe as gambling. 474k for a card of a kid who has never played, and is in the system of a team (one I root for) that can't develop talent to save their lives. Look what the Yanks have done in terms of developing prospects like Andujar, Bird, Frazier, and the baseball abomination that is Gary Sanchez. And some of those guys even showed flashes of excellence at the major league level. I could have that one Dominguez card or my entire collection. Makes zero sense to me.

PWCC premiere auction just opened, a Joe Borough RPA 1 of 99 is at $100k. The 1925 Lou Gehrig Exhibits Rookie SGC 3 is at $13k…. Makes a ton of sense to me

Even better, since I made this about Doncic- this card, not even an auto or piece of memorabilia is more than double a Gehrig Rookie. I can’t wait for the bottom to drop out

Leave the Doncic. Take the Gehrig.

https://images.ctfassets.net/23wh7e5...ive&w=900&q=50

I think that this entire thread is hilarious.

Yes, for your personal collection you would rather have the vintage…as would I. However, we need to understand that a huge percentage of the modern collectors are not necessarily in it for the collection and see it as investment much like stock. Also, like stocks the safe money would take a blue chip with likely consistency let’s say a 52 Mantle. A huge drop can be thought to be unlikely in the short term, but also in retrospect a huge gain of giant percentage is unlikely to outpace the modern money. While the value grew over the past several years the percentage was greater in modern.

We need to realize that while we envy those that can buy a 475g half a Wagner, we somehow get upset that someone spends a million on a Trout because we would not. Your jealousy does not determine value, demand does. The modern market dwarfs our prewar like the sun vs. Mars. There is no comparison, it’s not a rivalry. Card shows having 2 vintage tables and 50 modern is not a conspiracy. It’s business following the money. Let’s be happy that new blood is in the hobby and not tell them to get off your lawn. While yes it is high risk investment, it is high value return at times. They know the risk.

I would definitely take that Doncic over that Gherig

The Godfather
 

It took me a few seconds - and a second sip of coffee - but then I got it. Excellent grin-producing graphic for me on a cold Michigan morning. Thanks!

You can have it. I definitely would not. But that’s the beauty of this country, (at least for now), each to their own.

No dog in the fight, but noticed Doncic is on the cover of NBA 2022 for x box. Pretty popular player if that's happening.

Not casting negativity, but just pointing out an observation. I would guess that a likely 100% of collectors who misspell Gehrig would take the Doncic. It just leans to true interest, much like there is a good chance that if you know how to properly pronounce Lajoie, you are most likely the one of the few that would stop at a show to look at his card. This applies all ways, much like Ryan misspelled Joe Burrow's name, who is a 2nd year QB in the Super Bowl with more awards in the past 5 years than Meryl Streep in a lifetime. All these players are amazing, but most people naturally have interests they place at the top of the walk and dismiss out of pocket anything against that grain.

We should all be able to collect what you want and should get no flak for it...enjoy!

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000............ ........................


(Disclaimer: As long as it breaks no laws and is legal, and hurts or harms no one!)

Ironically, the one name everyone has spelled right is Doncic, which to me would be the most difficult of the three.

This is a great post. Classic that we both misspelled the player we were discounting. Point well taken.

Really trying to break myself from saying Lajoy. If I can give the French courtesy to Rudy Gobert I can certainly give it to Nap.

I am not sure most of modern is "collecting." Are there modern card buyers who actually collect? Sure. But the more I see in modern, the more it seems to me, on the whole, like a get rich quick game, something akin to gambling, for adrenaline junkies. So while both realms are comprised of cards, in modern it seems like far more of the buyers are buying solely to flip to the next man, as opposed to buying for a collection. Gambling in that sense is fine, just hanging a lantern on how it seems like it is a totally different ecosystem and culture, despite how both revolve around cards.

This has been such a cyclical thing since the junk wax era. I recall reading hobby press commentary 20-30 years ago about the modern investor-gambler mentality creeping so far down into the kids that they were so about the hits rather than the cards that they were leaving 'worthless' commons on tables at shows right after buying them. Today's version of it is on steroids. I'd never have thought you could sell a product that was essentially nothing but hits and have it go over well or that you could pull a card out of a pack depicting a youngster and have it skyrocket past superstar HOFers before the kid has any accomplishments. I understand chasing a touted rookie. That's time honored. But the rate of appreciation is unprecedented. No wonder idiots are beating each other to get at the retail packages.

https://youtu.be/NygeaRLnAYE

That's one of the, if not the, main things about Breakers, it's all about the hits. Just think how boring it would be for them to only ever open up boxes of base set cards where they're mostly going to be just common players. The people hosting the Breaks can only provide so much faux enthusiasm or Harry Caray imitations, to keep the audience amused and interested otherwise.

It will definitely be interesting to see if Fanatics continues long-term to produce card products that are primarily and more or less exclusively targeted for Breakers and their patrons.

People certainly are strange.

I'm convinced if we all had access to a foolproof flash forward information engine, and found out that in 3 years time a Joe Shlabotnick Rookie card was going to be worth $5000...within a week that card would be trading at $15,000 with no ceiling in sight, and traders jockeying for position on when to short the card.

Probably why I find modern breaks so uninteresting. Buncha card queens going ape$hit over something that has no meaning to me.

In the end, we’re all just paying money for cardboard pictures of dudes


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Actually it is even worse than that. We are older men paying money for pictures of young athletic men in uniforms.:eek::D

Some collectors have different tastes...

Mr Colon is younger and in way better shape than a lot of us.:D

I actually have a couple younger friends that I knew through a place I used to work at that are fairly well-known Breakers. I even went along and helped them one year at the National in Chicago, in the Breakers pavilion the whole time. They (Breakers) aren't entirely as bad as you make them out to be, but they definitely have to try and keep interest and enthusiasm up during the breaks. They obviously don't want to come across to their patrons and customers as putting down most of the cards they open up as the not-so-valuable-crap that a lot of it really is. And they do have to play up to people to keep them coming back. For example, the one friend who does most all of the on camera work and talking, he is known for his Harry Caray impressions while doing breaks. Whatever it takes to help keep people entertained and interested.

They're sports AND business minded guys though, so they aren't really big into collecting themselves, just in doing something sports related they can make a profit at. And they do make a profit. Not my kind of collecting though. I'm not much into modern manufactured rarities. So in that respect, I'm much more like you.

we only give the flack because we all know how it ends. badly for the doncho. he ain't no Zeon fat slob china doll. even trout is a bum. Dave Kingman has more homers in his prime. Mike Kingman- 1 million $$$$. aqua, chrome refracto, flash. kaboom prizm orange 1 of 1 paralleled BASE.

Nobody says you have to like what others collect. Besides, I'd rather they're all fighting over all this new modern crap. Means less competition for the pre-war stuff I'm after. LOL

There is a hockey player on the Tri City Americans with the last name Lajoie, that people pronounce Lajoy. And I wonder if the player knows everyone is mispronouncing his name and doesn't care? At some point collecting every single individual is a losing battle.

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I collect. But you are correct. My modern Reds cards are seriously worthless other than a handful, but sellers are asking ungodly amounts, even if it is just $5.... for Akiyama! He hasn't hit a HR since he came to MLB.

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Well, shucks. It didn't take long for the data to come in on that prediction Bobby "I lied about my real name during registration and tried to scam someone in the B/S/T forums" Strawberry.

ESPN just conducted a survey with 15 of the league's execs to see who they thought was the best young point guard in the NBA. 11 of the 15 execs chose Luka as their 1st pick. Looks like I was wrong about saying they would "all" choose Luka, as 4 of the 15 chose Morant. Nobody chose Trae Young, although a few idiots did pick Trae over Morant as their 2nd choice, and one imbecile had Morant with his 4th pick. Nobody had Luka lower than 2nd. However, as I prophesied earlier, he was the top choice and no, it wasn't close.

As for your prediction that "Every GM in the league would take Morant over Luka given the choice."... ya, that one sorta fell flat.

11-4. You lose. I'm shocked.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...floor-generals

This post is a new low, even for you. I'm not sure the reason for your obsession with me, but let's get a few things straight:

1. You are way out of line posting false claims about a Net54 member with whom you've never had any dealings, or even a single conversation outside of one basketball thread debate.

2. We were in fact both wrong about how GMs view Ja and Luka. What is the point of rehashing this month-old discussion?

3. On another thread, you claimed to have put me on your ignore list. I suggest you go back to that, as I have no interest in engaging with you in any way whatsoever.

Have a great night.

When I worked for Yngwie (pronounced Ing-Vay) Malmsteen (pronounced Malmsteen) more people asked me how to spell Malmsteen than Yngwie.

Lol. It's time to use the "ignore" function on toxic, negative board members! (Not talking about you.)

The only problem with blocking some of the morons is you will miss some hilariously funny stuff.:D

Not necessarily true. When someone else quotes a poster you have on Ignore, their post does appear in the Quoter's post, usually reminding you why you put that other person on your Ignore list to begin with. :D

Mavericks are 7-9 this season without Luka.
Grizzlies are 13-2 without Morant.
Mavericks with Luka have a better record than Grizzlies with Morant despite the Grizzlies having the otherwise far superior roster.

Steven A. Smith is unaware of these facts.

I officially regret that I ever started this thread. Please let it die. Very few people on the PRE WAR NASEBALL part of Net54 give a rat's ass about Luca Doncic or Ja Morant, let alone who is better. And I bet zero people on the PRE WAR BASEBALL board have interest in following this feud.

Please just let the topic and the thread die, at least on the Pre War Baseball board.

Thanks

Nobody is forcing you to read it. If you're no longer interested in the topic, then why are you reading it?

There is a thread discussing Luka Doncic which has migrated into Luka vs Ja Morant. It is a topic that is widely discussed in the basketball world. I'm a basketball fan. Much more so than a baseball fan, though I do love both. It's a topic I'm interested in. I think Luka is better. I'm simply pointing out why. Just because you started the thread, it doesn't mean you get to dictate when others have to stop posting in it. If the admins wish to move this thread into the basketball forums, that's fine. But I can't control that.

Being a 20-something t206 collector, I find I do not have the typical collecting habits of my generation. From my perspective, the "manufactured" scarcity of modern cards completely cheapens the hobby. T206 cards, and all vintage cards for that matter, intrigue me because their value is determined by external limiting factors on a mass produced product that was never intended to be scarce. Age, wear and tear, poor storage practices, and historical significance (as OP mentioned) are what drives the desirability and therefore value.

For the modern card counterpart, a card manufacturer can change the printing settings and slap a x/10 on the card, and it seems like we are just expected to assign the same desirability. One seems organic, the other feels like I am getting duped into a profit taking scheme.

Less than 15 years ago, I was spending my allowance money to buy the latest /20 jersey relic card for $50. Those same cards are worth $3 today. I have a hard time believing cards that have the same basic components 15 years later, with prices that have inflated 10,000%, will ever retain their value as well as vintage...but I guess we will see.

[QUOTE=drazz5;2206326]Being a 20-something t206 collector, I find I do not have the typical collecting habits of my generation. From my perspective, the "manufactured" scarcity of modern cards completely cheapens the hobby. T206 cards, and all vintage cards for that matter, intrigue me because their value is determined by external limiting factors on a mass produced product that was never intended to be scarce. Age, wear and tear, poor storage practices, and historical significance (as OP mentioned) are what drives the desirability and therefore value.

For the modern card counterpart, a card manufacturer can change the printing settings and slap a x/10 on the card, and it seems like we are just expected to assign the same desirability. One seems organic, the other feels like I am getting duped into a profit taking scheme.

Less than 15 years ago, I was spending my allowance money to buy the latest /20 jersey relic card for $50. Those same cards are worth $3 today. I have a hard time believing cards that have the same basic components 15 years later, with prices that have inflated 10,000%, will ever retain their value as well as vintage...but I guess we will see.[/QUOTE

Thank you for an on-topic post.

Regarding manufactured rarity, we are Badgers, and a few months ago my 13 year old son got (or I bought him) a 2020 Pannini Red Wave, auto, Jonathan Taylor rookie (I hope I said that right). He is into modern and I love that he is interested in cards and I want to do stuff with him so I indulged, especially a Badger. So the other day I started to contemplate what if we did a “color run” in that card? We looked up what would constitute a color run and it made no sense. There are like 10 different, but that’s just the start. There are many different other colors and versions based on which boxes you are opening. All in all, if you got every available card in that pose (from all the different boxes that could have that pose), it would be like 40 of them. Several are red, but one is wave and one is cracked ice and one is prizim, same with blue and green. And some have signatures and some dont. Some are 1 of 1s or 1 of 5 bc they are gold or black and bc it says it on the back. Some are camouflage and are worth more than signatures bc the cami is rarer (despite no auto). But anyway you slice it, there are many variations of that Jonathan Taylor pose - same pic, just different color, or auto, or limited edition (number on back). The pose is hardly rare. In fact, it’s super common. The rarity is the color, or background, or number.

Admittedly, the t206 Cobb pose is on different cards, as is the case with many of the Horner portraits and/or early cards (e107 has many same poses as t206, w600, etc and e92 has same poses as e101-106 and t216 etc). So I concede that even my beloved prewar uses the same poses over and over. But for some reason I can follow that but get lost looking at 2020 Jonathan Taylor cards.