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-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   What the hell is the deal with this PWCC auction (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=240664)

frankbmd 06-08-2017 08:28 PM
Visit my new website

www.sniperetractor.com

where you can place a snipe bid with 2 seconds left in an auction and then retract it with one second to go.

No max bid is safe and you never need to win a thing.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-08-2017 08:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 1669204)
Visit my new website

www.sniperetractor.com

where you can place a snipe bid with 2 seconds left in an auction and then retract it with one second to go.

No max bid is safe and you never need to win a thing.
you could at least set up a rickroll...

Peter_Spaeth 06-08-2017 08:42 PM
Frank you should offer a companion service www.stringbid.com/pwcc that will, at a pre-selected time after the opening of a PWCC auction, place up to ten sequential bids at a pre-designated interval.

frankbmd 06-08-2017 08:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1669212)
Frank you should offer a companion service www.stringbid.com/pwcc that will, at a pre-selected time after the opening of a PWCC auction, place up to ten sequential bids at a pre-designated interval.

Already working on it.;)

hcv123 06-09-2017 08:46 AM
Anyone up for a group dialogue by the PWCC booth
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackaJackKid (Post 1668275)
They can't block the highest bidder, he's probably the only authentic bidder in the whole auction. �� Brent and Betsy need to go find a real job. And yes, I am the type of person that will say this to your face. Can't wait for Nationals
1 lonely voice.... but if there were a group of people - I bet that would draw some needed attention to those unaware of how shady things are here!

calvindog 06-09-2017 09:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrompa (Post 1669201)
That the acrimony , discontent and sarcasm have been brought back to this thread . I was worried .
It was awful during the Mastro threads too, when they came on the board and told all of us malcontents how wrong we were. John Rogers did it too, another good hobby guy who just happen to run into a sarcastic few:

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/arti...z-editors-note

Brent and his alter ego Betsy are just the latest in the long list of great hobby guys who were just trying to do the rest of us collectors some good with their auctions until they were derailed by us skeptical no-goodnicks.

ullmandds 06-09-2017 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1669340)
It was awful during the Mastro threads too, when they came on the board and told all of us malcontents how wrong we were. John Rogers did it too, another good hobby guy who just happen to run into a sarcastic few:

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/arti...z-editors-note

Brent and his alter ego Betsy are just the latest in the long list of great hobby guys who were just trying to do the rest of us collectors some good with their auctions until they were derailed by us skeptical no-goodnicks.
yup

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 11:27 AM
11 retraction underbidder on second most expensive card, Star Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

25 (lol) retraction high bidder on fourth most expensive card, Fleer Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

18 retraction guy from a few days ago still underbidder on LeBron, guess he merited an exemption after all.

Carry on.

bobbyw8469 06-14-2017 11:45 AM
The Frank Robinson winning bidder had a QUADRUPLE stack going on.....which means his bid was higher.

Beastmode 06-14-2017 12:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670941)
11 retraction underbidder on second most expensive card, Star Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

25 (lol) retraction high bidder on fourth most expensive card, Fleer Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

18 retraction guy from a few days ago still underbidder on LeBron, guess he merited an exemption after all.

Carry on.
The fact e-bay let's this go on is fing insane. Can you imagine what is happening at the AH's that we can't see? Ten-fold this crap.

The only saving grace for me is I put a snipe in at what I think the card is worth; then I walk away. Sometimes I don't even know I won a card until days later. Any other way is just an invitation to be screwed or make an emotional high bid.

calvindog 06-14-2017 01:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670941)
11 retraction underbidder on second most expensive card, Star Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

25 (lol) retraction high bidder on fourth most expensive card, Fleer Jordan.

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...p2471758.m4792

18 retraction guy from a few days ago still underbidder on LeBron, guess he merited an exemption after all.

Carry on.
I'm sure Betsy is readying a response. Betsy. LOL

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 01:21 PM
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold."

bnorth 06-14-2017 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 1670974)
I'm sure Betsy is readying a response. Betsy. LOL
I bet it is another on a very long list of naive bidders. Seems to be her go to response.

frankbmd 06-14-2017 01:23 PM
Simple typo.

Should be

April 1, 2018. ;)

ALR-bishop 06-14-2017 02:39 PM
You fellas apparently do not fully appreciate, as Betsy explained in post 40, there are different types of retractions. These you are seeing now must be the naive, inconsiderate but non malicious kind.

mechanicalman 06-14-2017 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1671001)
You fellas apparently do not fully appreciate, as Besty explained in post 40, there are different types of retractions. These you are seeing now must be the naive, inconsiderate but non malicious kind.
That's funny.

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 02:57 PM
Just as an aside, the high bidder on the Frank Robinson, who was at 14 retractions at the time Brent and/or Betsy had that heart to heart with him, is now at 15. Must have been another non malicious one.

tiger8mush 06-14-2017 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670977)
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold."
The coincidence of a promise made on April 1st ...

botn 06-14-2017 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670977)
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold."
Jeez...give Betsy a chance to come on here and explain. My guess is that she can tell us these bidders have both won and paid for more than $60,000 worth of auctions and are therefore exempt from the retraction policy.

iwantitiwinit 06-14-2017 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670977)
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold."
As the program continues to mature? What is that supposed to mean? What maturing has to occur, more than 2 bid retractions and you should be done regardless of how much has been spent previously by the bidder. Bids that are retracted influence other bidders prior to retraction and no matter how you look at it are manipulative. I honestly can't see the rationale for allowing multiple retractions. This entire situation stinks in my opinion.

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 04:39 PM
Robert, I could not agree more. In my opinion it's a lot of feel-good BS and even the feel-good BS doesn't appear to be sincere, as the 10 limit is not being enforced.

bigfish 06-14-2017 04:51 PM
Explanation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Huigens (Post 1668157)
It is true that one of the bidders in this listing exceeds our threshold of bid retractions. We have been in close contact with him/her due to the concerning retractions on this listing. In this case we have a somewhat naïve bidder
using bid retractions inconsiderately but not maliciously. He/she has won and paid for almost $60k in the last three months with PWCC which demonstrates his/her follow through with his/her purchases.

We have explained our policies to this bidder and the inheritant damage that bid retractions cause to the auction environment which has been met with apologies and understanding and agreement to refrain from retracting moving forward. With this in mind we believe the bidder's bid retraction count will improve and we have decided to allow this bidder to continue to bid. If we notice more retractions by this user ID it will be blocked.

Yesterday we held a conference call with the eBay Trust & Safety team to show this as a case study of the fundamental brokenness of the the bid retraction tool and how it can enable otherwise good members of the community to act in a way that is disruptive.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions


Not sure where the confusion is??

Toby Petersen

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-14-2017 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigfish (Post 1671038)
Not sure where the confusion is??

Toby Petersen
Let's see, I'm confused by the fact that after the kind explanation, for which no proviso was made in their "rules", the bidder has since retracted ANOTHER bid. I am confused by their failure to enforce THEIR OWN policy by the letter of the law they set forth, and I am confused by "inheritant" but that could just be a personal problem.

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 05:28 PM
Inheritant -- one who inherits? :eek:

BeanTown 06-14-2017 05:33 PM
Maybe PWCC should just ban everyone that goes on any forum and complains about them. Just stop bidding and problem solved.

Peter_Spaeth 06-14-2017 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanTown (Post 1671060)
Maybe PWCC should just ban everyone that goes on any forum and complains about them. Just stop bidding and problem solved.
I have an even better idea. Maybe PWCC should just be truthful, or not speak at all.

calvindog 06-14-2017 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1671061)
I have an even better idea. Maybe PWCC should just be truthful, or not speak at all.
lol. You can't expect the fraudsters and their co-conspirators to follow that advice.

irv 06-14-2017 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1670977)
"As of April 1, 2017 PWCC places blocks on any user ID that has more than 10 bid cancellations in the past six months. This reflects a reduction in the number of allowed bid cancellations from 25 to 10. As the program continues to mature and continues to affect bidder behavior, PWCC will continue to reduce the threshold."
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALR-bishop (Post 1671001)
You fellas apparently do not fully appreciate, as Betsy explained in post 40, there are different types of retractions. These you are seeing now must be the naive, inconsiderate but non malicious kind.
These, and others are humorous, but also sad at the same time.

Embarrassed that I use to speak highly of them. :o

Jeffrompa 06-14-2017 06:53 PM
malicious kind ?
 
Every bid after a retraction is suspicious to me . Who does that ?

Leon 06-14-2017 08:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrompa (Post 1671087)
Every bid after a retraction is suspicious to me . Who does that ?
Screwed up people.

shagrotn77 06-14-2017 08:29 PM
None of the auction houses allow so much as one bid retraction. Granted, there's tons of funny business going on with a lot of them too, but I'm just sayin'.

Beastmode 06-14-2017 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon (Post 1671107)
Screwed up people.
I agree, but e-bay buries the retracted bid at the bottom of the page. I would bet over 50% of bidders on e-bay never see it. All by design.

Most of these auctions you have to scroll to the bottom of the page to see if there is a retracted bid. Might be another reason you see so many "string" bidders and multiple bids; so they can bury the retraction another page-down.

It's only a matter of time before e-bay rolls out a members only "high-end" bidding platform with minimum seller/buyer ratings, no retractions, etc.

Peter_Spaeth 06-15-2017 06:30 AM
Ebay seems to care far far more about whether you try to sneak an email or phone number into a message. After so many years it seems unlikely to me ebay is going to take a serious stand on retractions. But IMO, sellers have an independent obligation to ensure the integrity of their auctions/business.

irv 06-15-2017 07:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 1671159)
Ebay seems to care far far more about whether you try to sneak an email or phone number into a message. After so many years it seems unlikely to me ebay is going to take a serious stand on retractions. But IMO, sellers have an independent obligation to ensure the integrity of their auctions/business.
How true is that! Even if you try and space it, or code it, they seem to be on top of it.

I know of a CDN seller, even if his cards don't sell, will not sell private after his auctions end as he is under the impression, if he has listed them on E-Bay then that is his only avenue to sell his cards.

Eggoman 06-15-2017 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by irv (Post 1671174)
I know of a CDN seller, even if his cards don't sell, will not sell private after his auctions end as he is under the impression, if he has listed them on E-Bay then that is his only avenue to sell his cards.
TOO TRUE! I had a NET54 member decline to end an eBay listing and sell the card to me via PM as he was concerned that the eBay Police would find out and suspend his account - REALLY!

bobbyw8469 06-15-2017 07:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eggoman (Post 1671185)
TOO TRUE! I had a NET54 member decline to end an eBay listing and sell the card to me via PM as he was concerned that the eBay Police would find out and suspend his account - REALLY!
Ebay wanted a cut of the cards that I consigned with Robert Edwards auctions last year. True story :p

Sean 06-15-2017 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1671186)
Ebay wanted a cut of the cards that I consigned with Robert Edwards auctions last year. True story :p
What was their reasoning?

MikeGarcia 06-15-2017 09:44 AM
And
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean (Post 1671218)
What was their reasoning?


..and how did they even know ??

..

mechanicalman 06-15-2017 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1671186)
Ebay wanted a cut of the cards that I consigned with Robert Edwards auctions last year. True story :p
That's some Orwellian $h-- right there. I'm sure we'd love to hear the story if you feel safe to share it. ;)

bobbyw8469 06-15-2017 11:25 AM
It was a joke guys...Ebay is not THAT bad........yet.

Sean 06-15-2017 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyw8469 (Post 1671267)
It was a joke guys...Ebay is not THAT bad........yet.
So that is what that little face emoji means.


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