One could argue privately harassing somebody could be considered "bitch shit" so how about it Joey? We know you are there. So why dont you man up and tell it like it is?

Since me being called out by the defense lawyer is breaking news Ill address a few things to clarify what was said and no I wont be responding anymore to this thread. If someone really has questions you can pm me.

First off yes I have multiple Id's on ebay from getting kicked off

I have not paid for a bunch of things

I have a ebay problem as funny as that sounds. I need to address this issue personally and I know it is very wrong.

I have never ripped anyone off when selling anything.

I never lied to anyone to get a discount ever on anything

My aunt does have cancer and is dying. She had ovarian cancer which after radiation she was diagnosed with brain cancer. She now has cancer in her spinal fluid which is almost always terminal

My grandmother did die of lung cancer from smoking almost her whole life

My house did get robbed and I dont have home insurance so I am slowly trying to replace what was taken. I appreciate the people who have been supportive

I have no explanation for my reckless behavior on ebay. I love this hobby and alot of times I feel like I have to have every cool thing I see. I know thats not reality. In a way it is ocd'ish and I could use alot of help on different ways to stay involved in the hobby without always feeling like I have to buy something.

Ive embarassed myself to say the least. Ive formed alot of good relationships with people on here. Ive always delivered any items ive sold to anyone on here. That doesnt make my behavior okay and never will.

And last but not least Jeff you are in fact a douche bag..lol...for you to come on here and bring up things in my past that I was cleared of is a d*ck move. And to bring my personal life into it is even worse. But guys like you thrive on moments like this. You may be respected in this hobby but outside of it youre a douche bag. I never did anything to you and kirk keith spent months to try and convince people I was somebody named sam only to find out that he was very wrong and it was proven on here that I wasnt.

I don't have a problem with Joey being a member as long as he is banned from the BST. His eBay issues don't have anything to do with the site.

Agreed.

Except for the fact that many of us sell on ebay, and at least one of our members he stiffed. OCD or not, how does one make a best offer on a BIN and not pay for it once it's accepted? If you don't have the money to pay for an item then why are you even wasting someone's time with an offer?

Theres not a good enough answer that can justify that. I have every intention of paying but like i said when i see something i want more after the fact then i get reckless. It is a big issue for me and something that will stop.

I think what Alex meant (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) is that Joey's eBay issues shouldn't play any part as to whether he's a member here or not. If Jeff of anybody else wants to continue posting his eBay behavior to warn other sellers, I don't have a problem with that, but it should not be used against him to determine his membership here (as long as it stays outside the forum).

David - Those are my sentiments.

Perhaps Adrian could shed some light on that. He seemed to have similar issues.

if it means anything to you guys Im sorry. I found a hobby that Im real passionate about and have gone about things the wrong way for a long time. Theres so many cool things out there that I get reckless and go on these ebay rants. It is a problem and very wrong. There is nothing I can say to justify my behavior but hope that at least some of you realize that I really do want to be a part of this forum.

And jeff you couldve came to me personally and asked me about any of this before attacking me. I wouldve addressed any issue you had. I dont know you and have never personally done any business with you. But dont ever bring my personal life or family into any of this. Thats a d*ck move

if any of you want to talk more about this you can pm me but otherwise theres really nothing more to say about this

Joey,

You manned up and admitted you have a problem. I don't think there is anything else to say. I hope you get the issue under control because it can be very destructive.

Alex

As I said before, I have bought and sold multiple photos to Joey in the past 6mos. In my dealings, he has been very fair in his pricing and quick in his payment and shipping. On the board, excluding the BST, I think his threads and posts have been positive contributions. I agree that he has some ebay issues to deal with, but it's interesting in that most of his problems with retractions, etc seem to involve items other than photos. In many of the ebay Ids that have been shown, he has a string of positive feedback results, with positive wording, from Henry Yee, who as we all know sells mostly photos anymore. Not sure what is up with that, but that appears to the pattern.
I have no problems with him being on the board as a contributor. Being that Leon has already banned him from the BST, I think it becomes up to each individual here to determine if they wish to do any business with him.

Joey, no one brought your personal life into this but you. When you claimed that your various family members were dying, when your fiancé kept getting pregnant, etc., that was all personal stuff that you brought up in order to further your fraud. All I did was point out that you were still committing fraud on eBay under multiple IDs when you claim you had been clean for two years. If that makes me a bad guy to you, I don't care. Do you actually think anyone here cares what you think of them? And "manning up" isn't manning up when you only apologize after getting caught -- again.

As for letting a guy stay on this forum who has lied so often to so many people, who has defrauded Net 54 members (even if Joey doesn't know what the word "fraud" means), who sends harassing PMs, who stiffed auction houses, who has been kicked off eBay more times than he can count, who evades his BST ban by privately contacting Net 54 members to buy his stuff, well, if this is the kind of guy we want here then you have exactly the kind of forum you deserve. I can't believe that I'm the only one who wants better.

Harassing emails???? What have you been doing to me this whole time? And ask the people on here who ive sold things to. Ask them about their experience and see what they say. Jeff being a lawyer has really messed with your head. Everyone does dumb sh*t sometimes in their life, sometimes more than once if you can believe that. You obviously feel compelled to be the "hero" in all this like youre personally after me for nothing I did to you. Im a fairly new collector and I got somewhat obsessed and compulsive with it because its something I really enjoy. If someone admits they have a problem dont be a d*ckhead and keep kicking them while their down. Do you not believe drug addicts can recover? Damn dude you must not have any type of heart

Numerous people wrote to me about being abused by you recently. None of them wanted to be exposed because they didn't want to get harassed by you anymore.

Again everyone besides Jeff Im sorry for my behavior.

Ultimately, regardless of what we "want," it's up to Leon to decide who stays and who goes. I agree with all that it's a shame Joey has had these issues and it's a shame that people were hurt by those issues. I think this thread will certainly serve as a cautionary tale for all those who are deciding whether or not to do business with him. As far as harassing PMs, I think if Leon threw everyone off who ever sent an inappropriate email/message, we would have a very small board.

It's not that I don't want as good a board as possible, it's just that my personal experience with Joey has been very different than many others'.

Why, because I'm the only guy you didn't rip off?

"As far as harassing PMs, I think if Leon threw everyone off who ever sent an inappropriate email/message, we would have a very small board."

I very much doubt this is true, judging by the type of people here. I would guess it's a lot closer to a relatively small fraction. I suppose it's a definitional thing, but if we are talking about graphic PMs like the one Jeff posted, again, I very much doubt most people have sent anything like that.

Peter- Im sorry man but I feel like he deserved it. He came at me the wrong way and went out of his way to attack me. Im not one to back down. Whether I said it through a pm or in person it still wouldve happened. If he wouldve came at me different and actually let me explain then it wouldve been a different story. he doesnt know me one bit and I wouldve been more than happy to talk to him one on one but he wanted to be a jerk. Im done addressing Jeff because its pointless. But the rest of you im apologizing to

You're "manning up", you "don't back down." For such a tough guy, for such a manly man, you can't pay your bills and you hide behind your aunt's cancer and under your pregnant girlfriend's skirt. You know what being a man is? Honoring your promises and paying what you owe. Try it sometime.

You are more than likely correct, but there have been some pretty visible arguments here that got very very personal, both on the public board and in PM from what was reported. From what I can tell, very few of those people were ever kicked off.

Did any of those people also have 20 eBay IDs and defraud the owner of Net 54?

Don't know, but some pretty nasty stuff was exchanged.
Edit: Despite those episodes, I'm glad those people weren't kicked off the board as they were and continue to be valuable contributors to the board.

As I said, it's Leon prerogative to ban/suspend/reprimand as he sees fit, as this is his board. If I were defrauded, I would certainly feel the person should be banned, so I understand where those people are coming from. Perhaps I am just lucky in that my experience has been different.

I've obviously always felt different about fraud in the hobby. Whether I was the one being defrauded is not the determining factor for me in determining to stand up against the fraudster; instead it was whether anyone in the hobby was defrauded.

Will 'ignore' block PM contact? If so, I don't see the problem with PM verbiage that goes beyond what's acceptable in the forum. If it results in the recipient putting you on ignore, you've probably ended up with the correct result.

This isn't a black and white issue. As always, my goal is to continue to allow members on the board as much as possible but also have a safe environment, especially in the transaction areas. It has always been that way as long as I have been moderating. That being said, I prefer members not harass other members in PMs.

Joey- please don't PM Jeff anymore and he won't PM you.


I don't remember being defrauded by Joey. I won't go into specifics but there was one auction issue and it wasn't a big deal. It solidified my position/thinking though....

That's about all I have to say for now.....thanks

Jeff,
Please understand that I am not defending his behavior. Obviously, defrauding anyone is wrong. I am merely saying that I would not be against his continuing to be on the board without BST privleges. If Leon decides otherwise, I would understand and support his decision as well.

Leon- no problem at all. I will leave it alone.

P.s i do pay my bills but youre right about paying what i owe. And by the way my fiance looks very good in a skirt but i get your point

He has all valid points.....

He does but the way he went about it was why i said what i said to him in a pm

Joey, it's necessary for people to be called out in public on a forum and not personally in a PM. The reason is that the lies can't hide behind a personal conversation. I applaud Jeff for bringing your actions to light. I have an ebay account and I have now blocked you from bidding. It is personal. You can't keep affecting others and say "it's nothing personal". Sorry. Doesn't work that way.

On this forum and other forums, problems are brought to the group and solved on a group level in a way that couldn't have happened in a one on one conversation. This is true for good hobby moments like figuring out a new card set or face in a crowd and shitty hobby moments like you and your situation.

It's not my call but having you on the board is probably adding to your problems rather than helping them. I see no reason why talking about something you obsess over is good for you. You come on here, talk about photos and then go on ebay and hit BIN and don't pay for them. Seems like a bad combo to me.

Finding a way to talk about the hobby and not always feel compelled to buy something is what im working towards. Its getting those moments under control that i havent figured out yet.

So, to clarify, Jeff made all valid points, but because he made those points in a way that you did not like, you felt justified in attacking him via PM, and then apologizing (twice) to everyone on the board EXCEPT Jeff?

A few thoughts :

1 - It seems to me that if apologies were given out in the order in which they were deserved, Jeff would be way up towards the top.

2 - As for dead and dying relatives, we all either have, or will have, those so they garner no sympathy from me when it comes to bills being paid, or not paid, as the case may be.

3 - In regards to pregnant fiances, I shudder to think what kind of child will be raised in household where dad causes this much drama on a baseball card blog.

4 - Pay any money that you owe. Stop buying more stuff. Start a college fund for your kid. Don't tell me that (what's left of) your collection is the college fund, put money in a bank, there is no risk of it being stolen by the neighbors, or anybody else.

5 - Get off the blogs and start being an adult.

Just my thoughts, I could be wrong, insert smiley face here,
Doug

Its my opinion that to benefit fully from membership on this board one has to trust others and in turn be trustworthy. I recently completed a photo trade that required that I send some valuable items to a stranger who lived on the other side of the country. I didn't hesitate. I know that the other party didn't either. Its amazes me that such transactions happen frequently here without an issue. There is an odd fellowship that exists among the members of this online community and its pillars are a kindred passion, knowledge, and trust. I appreciate Jeff's efforts to ensure that members are held accountable by calling them out. That being said I have no problem with Joey remaining on the board. The damage he has done to himself far outweighs any he has done to others. This is proof once again that a reputation once tarnished can never be repaired. Its very obvious how important this board is to Joey. Unfortunately no matter how sincere his apologies are of how hard he tries to repair his reputation many here will always view him with a jaundiced eye.

While I respect Jeff for always consistently maintaining a tough stance and fighting against shilling and detrimental parts of the hobby, there is no question to me, at least, that when he sets his sights on someone, his language often leaves something to be desired. It seems that he purposely tries to insult and inflame the person that he is attacking, and there would be better ways to accomplish what he is trying to do, but it is what it is.

Joey, you have admitted your faults, and apologized profusely in a public forum, which still must've taken some courage. However, you should know that admitting a problem and actively doing something about it are two very different things. And when you have a history of these issues, they can follow you around for a very long time, as you can see from this thread. You can walk the straight and narrow path, but there will still always be people who will bring up your past. And if you continue to not pay when you agree to purchase an item, that will only give further ammunition to your detractors. You can say to yourself that you're not really hurting anyone because they still have their item, and you never took any money from them. However, it will continue to stain your reputation. No one will take you at your word or trust you, and there will continue to be threads such as this where people will continue to heap loads and loads of misery towards you. You can only apologize so long before everyone will simply tune you out completely.

I know you have had a run of bad situations, and I hope that you can dig yourself out of this. Sometimes it is just a series of small steps where you can work yourself back to having the life you want to have rather than letting things overwhelm you. I enjoyed many of the posts you had on the forum especially in vintage photography and seeing the knowledge you've accumulated and shared. I hope that you can come back to being a contributing member of this board soon. Take care.

So my language to Joey "leaves something to be desired" but Joey's to me -- for simply exposing his recent fraud -- does not merit a response from you? That makes sense.

And the idea that because Joey continues to apologize profusely takes courage is laughable. He continues to defraud, continues to lie about it, gets caught -- and knows that if he just apologizes he'll be given yet ANOTHER chance. You think that's courageous? Seriously? The guy has the morals of a flea. Courage? LOLOL

So you paid all the people you stiffed on eBay this year? Did you pay Leon for the auction item of his you won and didn't pay for? And you "do pay [your] bills" but not "pay[] what [you] owe?" Do you not understand those concepts are one in the same?

Do recovering alcoholics talk about how much fun it is to get plastered or which drink and/or bar is their favorite? You need to get away from the temptation. You obviously have an issue with the multiple ID's and non payments. Getting kicked off of the BST here should be a wake up call man.

Take the time you would normally spend on this board to do something constructive. You may or may not have a baby on the way, focus on that.

Good luck

That's crap.

Gary, with all due respect to you, it took as much "courage" for him to do that, as it is taking for me to type this.

Doug

Maybe Gary got confused about the meaning of the word "courage" with Memorial Day coming up and all.

And Gary, the "past" you claim I brought up about Joey occurred in April of 2014 when he was still committing fraud on eBay. He also lied repeatedly in this thread, claiming he's been on the straight and narrow for two years when dozens of Net 54 members know first hand that this is not true. Is the past which includes the previous few days not fair game when judging someone's character?

Joey- this is my first post on this thread, but after reading it in its entirety, you need to walk away from this hobby and get some professional help. Saying we all make mistakes is completely lame and absolute bullshit. I'm not going to comment on your home robbery, I have absolutely no idea if it's true or not, but the way you have conducted business is entirely unacceptable. If you think you have OCD see a shrink. But you should not be participating in this hobby until you get your shit worked out.

Joey, I personally feel the same way bout the Hobby. But, I just lost another job, tho this one was expected, and just have to reign in buying. you need to know when NOT to do things you can't follow up on. Its hard, yes, but you have to. you have likely lost trust of board members on here also for this whole thread. I'm sorry for your issues, but keep in mind being honest and smart in the way you operate is the way to go. Best of luck, but you need to step back from the hobby until u can get this stuff under control.

I've changed my mind. I think Joey should be banned...right after Leon runs a background check and credit check on every member here.

Background check: This one is easy. Anybody that's ever been arrested can no longer participate on the forum.

Credit check: There's a bit more to this one. The only accusation that Joey is guilty of (even by his own admission) is not paying for eBay purchases. Is that fraud? Nope. Is it wrong? Absolutely (and I'm not making excuses for it)!!! But I would be willing to bet that if Leon ran a credit check of every board member, there would be several members that never paid a bill - credit card bill, old utility bill, something. What's worse, not paying for an eBay item that you never took possession of, or not paying a credit card bill or utility bill for a product that you did take possession of or a service that you used? So, anybody with any derogatory marks on their credit report would no longer be able to participate on the forum.

Yup, those should be a pre-requisite to join the forum and all existing members should have to comply. Let's see how many members are left after that. I’ll go first!!!

Why is it when anyone gets caught w/ their hand in the cookie jar, they play the role of the victim?
We all would love to buy cards & collectibles as we all have a passion for them, but we have to stay within our budget.
If you can't afford to buy something, then don't bid or click the Buy It Now.
Its pretty simple.

David, you're smarter than this.

Can we all get back to discussing our passions for baseball?

A beligerent, loudmouth, dime a dozen defense attorney (who's constantly looking for the attention that he lacks) is giving lectures on human moral as it pertains to telling the truth and never lying????? Hahaha, oh that's rich!

Seriously though Jeff it's gotta be tough for you everyday dealing with being so f*cking cool and all isn't it?......I would bet you're the coolest guy you know......:cool:

Hey, it's Glenn Willrich, another Net 54 fraudster who was allowed back onto Net 54 after committing fraud and threatening members!