........but, but, but........David said that never happens. All libraries clearly place deaccession stamps on all items that lawfully leave their possession.

:confused:

Travis, you must have missed my direct question to you, please respond.

Ken

PS: And just in case you think I'm asking this because I'm defending my friends, of all the people Nash has ever talked about on his site, the person I've communicated with the most -- the closest thing I have to a 'friend' from his posts -- is you.

This quote made me laugh out loud. You mean "It's good to hear all sides, unless it's one of my friends. Then you have an agenda and you're all going down." Right?

I don't defend PSA; PSA defends against me.

Not on your say-so.

Ken has he been charged and convicted of fruad?

Shelly, do you feel he should get a free pass??

Uh, Shelly, actually I believe he admitted to fraud....but I am sure these are all a big, big misunderstanding...

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If he is guilty of a crime no. Untill that time he is just someone one you dont like and never will. I think there is always two sides to a story. I know Rob reads this site. I would like to hear from him.

Everything said so far, against Nash, would pale in comparison to what Rob thinks, trust me.

i am with this statement. i remember reading pete's side. Just because people dont like someone, doesnt mean they have a monopoly on the facts.

i looked back at haulsofshame posts, and found this.

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=7968

I am not defending him. This is a civil case and everyone one is makeing it out to be a criminal case. I am just defending his right to write and artical no more no less. If you dont want to believe what he writes fine.:confused:

And Shelly, I put it to you that most of the people he writes about fall into the same criteria. So why isn't he fair game here?? I'm sure Nash knows about this thread. I would like to hear from him.

Same thing to you, Travis, in your rants against PSA and JSA.

He is fair game and I would like him to come on here as well. I am not taking sides.As I said from the very begining. I feel that he has every right to write what he wants and you have the same rights not to believe it.

I don't thnk it is an all or nothing proposition in believing what he writes or not. He clearly does a lot of research and he regularly presents readily-varifiable facts.

What is pertinent about his past history of fraudulant behavior is that his writings need to be read more critically. Case in point:

When speaking here about a questionable Ruth baseball (I think it was that, one of the longer threads in the last year), a well-respected poster on these boards posted that he had spoken to several people who didn't think the ball was genuine. I have absolutely no reason to question this person, and his stellar reputation led me to take him at his word.

On the other hand, when Nash writes that "experts" share an opinion that something is or is not genuine, he does not get the benefit of that doubt from me. Travis can say I'm protecting the status quo all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that Nash has lost the right (in my eyes) to make sweeping and anonymous generalizations.

That being said, I hope he continues and takes steps to tighten up his writing and use of sources (and drops the needless, unrelated bashing in his posts). I will keep reading, that's for sure.

Well said.:)

I'm not talking about a book from some branch library of the NYPL. I'm talking about artifacts cared for by professional, trained, librarians/curators at the main branch--Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street--the finest research library in the country.

you have never disproven any of my facts against psa or jsa.

go ahead, post proof that anything i have shown as mistakes made by them are an error in my part.

go ahead!

Travis- when I get the time, and it will be by tomorrow, I will be posting many more court actions against Nash. Do you realize when you sleep with dogs you get fleas? The old saying, you are the company you keep....have you ever heard that?

Now, all of this doesn't mean that some of what Nash says isn't true. I am sure it is. I am sure he is a very smart person too. What I never understand about his type is that if they used their smarts for good, instead of bad, they could be so successful. I truly don't understand it. He reminds me of the scammer on the card side that lives his life scamming people and dodging authorities. I don't think that is any way to live your life....

Leon, I think that everyone has an idea who Pete Nash is. I think the way your doing it looks like your representing Rob. Over kill is not needed;)

Shelly is right Leon......is Rob supplying you with all these documents?

Seems whomever is, has an agenda too.

So what if someone has an agenda?

Are you going to tell me that Travis doesn't have an agenda?

Or that I don't have an agenda?

Not at all. Just that some of you cry that Mr. Nash is not to believed because he has an agenda.

But your answer is sufficient.

I think the point is that someone who has the time to clean up other's houses might well take a broom to their own first.
Frankly that's an understandable POV but it does not make what he says untrue.
See, Emperor has no clothes.

Adam,

Your post is too insightful for this thread. Please cease and desist sir.

Mike

Has anyone seen Peter Nash and Travis Roste in the same room?

:D



















(kidding here -- carry on) ;)

some of these places, (not psa or jsa ofr course) want money over everything and admitting mistakes and correcting them for the good of the hobby doesnt fit their profit sharing plan so to speak. in other words they dont care.

If Peter Nash is mentioning Rob Lifson who has a huge judgement against him I don't believe a word he says...other stuff? Who knows, it's not like this guy is Ghandi. It's stunning to me the amount of support he seems to be getting in this forum considering the fraud he committed. I think if this conversation takes place in the card forum he gets no support at all.

Are you actually saying that without irony in a thread about a man who ripped people off for over $760,000???????????????????? A man who loves slamming others' mistakes but refuses to acknowledge his own??

I think most of us agree with this....are the mistakes being made by JSA and PSA mistakes or something sinister? I seriously don't see what benefit PSA gets from giving a thumbs up to a printed PT Barnum signature.

Of course you are being facetious in your first line, but we all agree with you on this Travis. You will not find a single person here who thinks the TPAs want what's good for the hobby over profit. They are marketing machines, selling a flawed product. It just doesn't seem to bother most of us as much as it does you.

The smartest sentence in this thread.

And thats the biggest problem i think we have as a hobby, the apathy.

See, I worked at Topps for two years. It is a very poorly run company where one hand doesn't know what the other 33 are doing. It was also a pretty hectic job with lots of deadlines. But that didn't really bother me because it was just baseball cards, which is something I used to tell myself if I found stress creeping in at the job, "It's just baseball cards." I wasn't curing cancer, but I wasn't causing it, either. Can you see my point?

Now, when I go on other hobby websites that are more focused on modern baseball cards, there are arguments happening that shadow those here about the TPAs, but they are about Topps. Topps doesn't care about us, they are ruining the hobby, etc. You know where I side on those? It's just baseball cards. If you don't like what Topps is doing, don't patronize them, and if it is causing anger and higher blood pressure, than perhaps painting or birdwatching (or better yet, vintage!) might be a better hobby. But I can promise you that there is no evil plot or fraudulant behavior going on at Topps, just a group of jabronis at a poorly run company struggling to get a product on the street. It's just baseball cards.

I feel the same way about TPAs. I like autograph collecting. I have been doing it for 20+ years. The hobby had problems before the TPAs came along, and it will have problems when they fail. But when it comes to the opinions of these self-proclaimed experts, I can use or ignore them, which is more and more becoming the latter. You can call this apathy. I call it enjoyment and staying sane. It's just scribbles on paper.

Granted, I don't make my livlihood from autos, like some around here do, but maybe this will help you better understand my position on the topic.

Isn't this kind of an ironic question given the agendas that Travis and Nash seem to have? Yes, I have an agenda. It is to expose Nash with incriminating evidence, and most of that being notarized court documents, when he goes after other people and companies. The same can't be said for Travis or Nash, with respect to empirical evidence. Who really cares where I got them? Just like everyone, yourself included, saying (in essence)....what does it matter that Nash is the biggest fraudster to stand foot in the hobby, what he says might be true!! Well, EVERYTHING I have posted is factual. And I have already said I am not comfy with Nash specifically because a good hobby friend is holding 6 figures of bad 19th century memorabilia that allegedly can't be traced back before Nash. The rumor is that Nash took, or takes, good 19th century stuff....puts one and one together, and makes three. Also, some concourse balls that were consigned by him were found to be fake (or at least have materials that weren't around at the time the memorabilia was used/made.) I am going to save the pile of other documents for a rainy day. Suffice it to say there is nothing that will make Nash or his allies look too good. Just more squirming, crawfishing, stealing and lying the way it seems he always has. Nothing new there.....
.
,

Not any of this means that some of what Nash says isn't true. As stated already, I am sure it is. But maybe Nash needs to apologize, make restitution and pay back people he has swindled before he cures the hobby of all fraud. That would be a good start to giving him some respectability. But then again, some people don't care.

Leon, I think that you underestimate the people on this site.We do care and I understand your wanting to help a friend.
I like most people on here are not looking at who is writeing the story vs is the story fact or fiction. Rob is no angle and he knows it. None of us are. I just feel there is a fourm for your thread and a forum for what he writes.
Yes Ken I do believe that they should be seperate. The conversation should be is what he writes true or not. There have been questionable people out there that have written very important things that turned out to be true.
Last time. He has a right to print what he believes is the truth and you have a right not to believe it bad guy or not.

I am sick of the "nash is a bad guy so everything he writes is fake" crowd.
its stupid. so lifson doesnt like him , so what?

You obviously can't comprehend the English language. Show me one place where anyone has said that, especially me? One place Travis.....

Are you serious, Travis!!!

Please quote where that has been written.

Travis, you simply don't like the fact that Nash is being criticized.

Nash has made himself fair game.

Wow, you really do only see things in black and white, don't you? A hundred percent or nothing?

It's sad, really.

Heh.

Didn't realize that this thread was still going. I don't know Peter Nash and am too old, I guess, to have been a fan of his music. I do not know Rob Lifson either. I do know that Rob Lifson and others have sued Nash for fraud, Lifson getting a judgment in excess of $750,000.00. I do know that Nash's father took $50,000.00 from Bishop Ford High School's development fund to keep Peter's Cooperstown property from being foreclosed and that he was not prosecuted. I do know that Nash has admitted fraud in Court and has also admitted not filing tax returns for five years. As my family has a summer home near Cooperstown, I do know that if you mention Peter Nash's name to anyone there who has been in town for more than a few years, eyes start rolling. Nevertheless, I do read Nash's website from time to time and knowing that he has an agenda, I can sort through some of what he writes and find that it does have value. As they say even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while and Peter Nash is a busy little squirrel.

Very interesting stuff. Like the poster above, I know nothing about any of these people.

But from what I can gather reading the last few pages, would this be like Barry Bonds writing a book bashing on steroid abusers? Or not at all?

One thing that would help me discern that someone is lying is to have knowledge that they are historically a liar. Why start believing someone that is a habitual liar? I do not believe that you can be a fraud like Nash and then make a public relations announcement that you are now out to clean up the hobby that is ridiculous. If he was truly out to clean up the hobby why not remove him self from it? Please do not take this personally Shelly, I just do not agree with you on this even though I respect your opinion.

Anyone have the cliff notes on this thread? Too lazy to read all the posts.

Why? Because what he writes is easily checked, and has been found to be true.

Leon calls out Nash.
Travis hates TPA's.

Awesome post! LOL :D

Leon
 

Not only calls out Nash, but has proof

Travis bashes TPA's

Rich

I hate to pull out the old Cycleback trick
 

And follow myself but in these cases the court judgements are public informaton and I'm sure a good google search can find these docs.

Search sometimes for fan injuries at baseball games and lawsuits and you will get all those documents as well