Thank you josh for your post. I will try my best to reply.

1. In my opinion, the kids aren't at risk for these cards. Kids: defined as 13 and under. Scammers aren't going to market there cards to them because they aren't stupid enough they are getting a real '48 Ruth card for $20 bucks or whatever they have in there mowing yard accounts. And yes you are right, people make mistakes. That's why they have warranties, appraisers and grading services. So that people have enough resources in front of them to not go into something that could cost them a lot of money ignorant.

2. You can send me a fake money order if you like. And you are correct. I am unfamilier with real vs fakes. But I am familiar with the fact that there are a lot of people in the world that will try to scam you, especially in this day and age. That I will either A. wait til it clears the bank, or B> google counterfeit money orders. And see what to look for. pic for reference


http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/...oney-order.jpg

Honestly I don't deal with the kind of people who i would need to question authenticity or not.

I think i get the picture now and understand why you guys could be so mad at reprints. I think that many of you while trying to burn someone got burned yourself.

Consider this. You see an add on craigslist about a '48 leaf ruth card. You see the scan and you see the price $350 bucks. That's cheap but not too cheap. You meet up with the guy he seems the normal guy. he says he needs the money to pay rent. you offer him $250 bucks for the card thinking your really shoving it in. he reluctantly agrees. you give him the $250 and go on about your way only to find out that you weren't the one lowballing a guy down on his luck he was actually scamming you.

So the tough guy who stuck with the $250 price sending the guy back to his family $100 less than what he actually wanted got scammed. you knew that $350 was a fair price for that card but you knew you could take advantage of him because you perceived his ignorance.




Everyone gets scammed everyday. People believe that if i take this pill i will lose weight because Kathy Ireland said i would. Or Billy Mayes said this auger would til my entire garden, or at least that's what i saw on tv. Does it ever clean as good as it does on tv. How many people still buy into that crap.

matt,

Arguing my point? that was done on page one of the thread, now i am just responding to you guys.

I spend time doing it because its more of a tribute to the originals. Like singers covering a song, or actors performing on stage to a historic person.

I have a great love for the cardboard as well. It give me a certain satisfaction when a card comes out looking great. aging them is just a neat process to witness. taking a new card and making it look old is just fun to do

Its really not about the money. at $5 bucks a card even selling 100 cards a month that wont make my house payment. Its more of a hobby than a way to make money.

I have a small story for ya. I took my first cousins kids out for donuts one morning. 2 boys 9 and 11, they got in the car. my boy was in the backseat cause he still rides in a car seat and one of the older boys rode up front. he noticed a plastic bag with cards and immediately noticed the Wagner card in there. of course not really knowing what reprints are being in elementary school i educated them that morning about cards. Showing them my collection of cards, trivial as though it may seem a jerry rice rookie compared to a 33 goudey ruth buy the rice was real and the ruth was not.

I got to give them there first baseball cards. The ironic twist is that my first (there father) cousin 25 years earlier gave me some cards that i still had that i got to pass along to them while telling them how i got the cards. they were so excited about cards. i gave them several commons and tried to diversify it out so that they could appreciate collecting as i do. of course i knew what was on there mind too. they wanted one of the reprints i had. i let them pick there own card out. one picked a Ruth and the other a Gehrig. they both know that they aren't real cards. so now they got a nice collection of real cards and a couple of really nice reprints. and chances are when they get older when they hear goudey ruth for $500 nr/mt they will pickup and run.


In Response to this statement
"No one here will agree that the new collector that got burned by one of you cards is at fault."

I am sure that people on here will agree that these type of baseball cards are an investment and not the ones you throw in a shoebox.

When you spend 15k on a car you have it inspected by someone who knows more about it than you, right?

When you buy a house you acquire the services of a Realtor because they are more experienced in real estate transactions than the buyer.

Same thing with expensive cards. You drop 15k on what you think is a '33 goudey ruth and don't get it inspected by a "mechanic" Your in for bad news.


hope that answers your questions.

Good question, let me address that statement.

Why reprint is removed guys!!!

The other 95% of people including myself likes to sit back and thumb through the aged cards. Make believing that just for one sec that they actually own the real card. It adds to the authenticity of that.

Intent to mislead statement bothers me as the first post I stated these were reprints. i have no more authority from some dumba$$ who buys some from me to pass them off as fakes just as gun manufacturers don't have any authority over the person who buys the gun to intentionally kill someone with it.

I don't understand, you guys are either really paranoid or there is people out there selling reprints as real.

People who i sell them too are like me, enjoy the hobby. not try to steal from people by passing them off as real. That's a crime.

But just a few tips for ya if your browsing on ebay.

If you see stuff like this i'd stay away.

Ungraded babe ruth, must sell fast. Don't have time to grade

Not an expert selling as reprint

found at grandmas

There is no such thing as a good deal anymore. even granny knows what those ty beenies are worth nowadays.

That does not answer why you REMOVE the word reprint. Just say it, you remove it for the sole purpose of deception. You are a fraud, a crook and a cheat. No one here is paranoid, deception in this hobby exists and you just help to perpetuate it.

hey

I knew you got up this morning running downstairs to your pc just dying to know the answer to that question. The answer is right before your post, sir.

well said sir :)

i totally agree with you Leon. I would have never known about reprints like this if i hadn't have been burned myself. everyone whether they agree or disagree should be aware like in so many things in life people try and take advantage of others.

sorry guys for all the posts i am just now getting to respond to everyone.

Good point when you say that Leon has the authority to cease my free speech on the forum. and why, because i am on his turf? So i appreciate him letting me express my viewpoints as well because i am enjoying this conversation.

Got a question for you josh. you dont have to answer on the board, just answer it in your head. When you ride in another persons car do you feel compelled to change there radio station or toggle there a/c?

I got the idea from anther person selling them but stopped selling those because like you, i felt that was a little too far. Since then i had stopped selling them

whats on your bookshelf barry?

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enough already
 

I now appreciate how Derek preaches to do his research but then he comes out with a blanket statement like "95% of collectors..."...Derek...where did you get this figure? Did you do any market research? Conduct any polls?

Sheesh...I now feel he is just a troll who stumbled into a part of the internet he was not prepared for.

Leon,

Hello! I think erasing the word “Reprint” is a pretty crappy thing to do as I stated in an earlier post, but I don’t think it could be construed as fraud since he is still selling them as reprints. The bold text that you posted above is really irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, and no, I didn’t skip over that part as you suggested. With all due respect, you skipped over the events in the order in which they happened. I will try to explain my point from another angle.

You stated above that erasing the word “Reprint” from a card is almost akin to fraud. Well, let’s just assume for a minute that it actually is fraud. By posting the bold text above, you’re trying to make it sound like others had a right to interfere.

However, if you look at this thread from the beginning, you can see that he was interfered with 2 days before it was discovered he was erasing the word “reprint” from the card. So, the original intent of the interference was not to point out fraud as you’re trying to suggest in the bold text above, it was to voice the displeasure of some for selling his cards. That just shouldn’t have happened on the B/S/T boards. Whether others like it or not, he has a right to post something for sale without being interfered with.

With that said, this is obviously your forum and you have a right to run it as you wish. I think we can all agree that the cards are garbage, but that is not the point here. The point is that he has a right to sell them. Some want to censor what he is selling. You said in another thread that you didn’t want to censor Bruce and I don’t see the difference in censoring words or censoring items for sale. Censorship is censorship. Again, as much as I, you and others think his cards are garbage, he still has a right to sell them – maybe not here, but somewhere else. I don’t agree with it, just like I don’t agree with serial killers selling their “memorabilia” from behind prison walls, but it is what it is.

Regards,

David

For the most part Bruce's stupidity is all talk, and his ridiculous comments/remarks won't hurt the hobby overall. When these "reprints" are made available to the masses it is obvious that they can easily fall into the wrong hands which of course does hurt the hobby. I am all for non-interference on the B/S/T, but there are cases where sometimes people have to be called out.

Derek- I actually have a huge library. I was a graduate student in English Lit, and I collect books. If anything I have too many and need to get rid of some. But my point is it is unlikely you really understand socialism save how the talking heads on the right carelessly throw the term around. I really don't fully understand it either, so I don't drop it casually into conversations. I'd rather learn more about it before I pretend to be an expert.

That was my only point. Carry on.

The last 10 minutes
 

Can I have the last 10 minutes of my life back please....what a waste of time, and yet I feel the need to respond.

Derek-

Argue all you want, IMO your sole purpose was revealed when you removed the word reprint or any modern dates in your aging process. You are trying to deceive, plain and simple. Your argument that we have all been burned and buyer beware doesn't hold water with me. Why be part of the problem by making these cards available to an unsuspecting public?

To All Others-

Derek is the classic internet forum troll. Loves to stir the pot, doesn't listen to the obvious sound reasoning of the rest of the group and will continue to post so that he always has the last word.

I have had my say, feel somewhat better and will never post again in the is thread so Derek can continue to get his jollies. In fact, I probably will never read this thread again.

Jeff

Why is this post still on? I cannot believe that time is given to this guy wo really doesn't care obuot old cards. His purpose is to get attention and make money selling his crap. Why is this post allowed to continue? It is a absolute joke. Frank

It is probably still on here for the good of the hobby.

The more time that he can be lured into spending here, the less time that he has to ply his ill-conceived wares. :)

Agreed. Shut him down.

The guy is charging $5 for the cards and disclosing that they are reprints. His intent is to defraud?

Adding fuel to the fire.

He is at best either intentionally or recklessly promoting a future fraud.

How to make a $100 by rarerookies:
 

Before:
http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Honus-Wagne...#ht_500wt_1156

After:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Honus-Wagner-T-2...#ht_500wt_1156

and see T206's last comment.....
 

Peter- Actually, I might have missed it but I didn't see anyone say this guy is committing fraud himself. You are ignoring the point.....take this for example....here is what these cards will end up like, and worse.....I guarantee it, and you know it too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Babe-Ruth-Old-Lo...mZ230558370859

Unlike some, I still don't think of him as a troll. He is just causing future problems for the hobby. If you are ok with that, then so be it.

If I were selling unmarked reprints of 100$ bills for 5 bucks, it would be fraud. I think this should be fraud too.

Leon you did miss it, see for example post 167.

"You are trying to deceive, plain and simple."

Not that I am defending the guy or his absurd rants....

How much do reprints usually go for, without the artificially aged look, about a buck right? Another buck for shipping? $2 bucks!

Someone might be interested in paying him $3 bucks per card to rough them up, but I'd rather have a pristine reprint to dream over.

The five dollars includes shipping, but it doesn't say how they are shipped.

Then when I looked at the Wagner, it was $15, but included Case (screw down) and......wait for it....Tracking Jerry, Tracking. Now there are two more items to mark up and the profit starts to add up...the American way of Capitalism at work here. For another $5, I bet I can get a bow and for another $5 a Certificate of nonAuthenticity.

Really not illegal, dubious, but not illegal. Enabling a third party to resell a reprint as authentic, which will invariably happen, is a real shame as far as the hobby is concerned, but as ebay is evidence of, there's apparently more than one sucker born everyday. This fits right in with the banking industry motto - An Uneducated Consumer Is Our Best Customer -

ok then...
 

I didn't really want to post again in this thread but no, I didn't see that, Peter. In that case I agree with you on both points. best regards

The only place a reprint belongs is in the garbage. The few times that a reprint has crossed my path, I tore it up and threw it away.

Dover Reprint details?
 

Does anyone know who was behind making those Dover reprint books way back? We all saw the potential problems of reprints even way back then!
Just curious who was behind this Dover Reprint thing that has turned into an un-controlllable monster all these years later!

As I remember it, I think it was Bert Sugar.

Another thought
 

When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the average I.Q. of both states.
Will Rogers

Learn something new every day. Thank you!

It was Bert Sugar. I loved those books, when I was 7, they turned me on to old cards. Other than sharing the same image, they were nothing like the originals; the way reprints should be.

Sort of how the left used to throw around the word "Nazi." I guess that stopped once Bush left office.

I never threw the word around...not even once.

+1

My opinion
 

I think you are nothing better than a whore and should go set up your wares on a shady city street corner.

I've been out for a couple days. whos the whore?

Hilarius. Love that. Seriously someone paid $100 bucks for that. They must be the biggest dummies

Key things to look at for buyers on this post

Seller info
Member id only-deals4u ( Feedback Score Of 0 )

UNKNOWN AUTHENTICITY (PLEASE SEE ABOVE PICTURES)

Only fools would fall for that one.

You can't fix stupid
-Ron White-

Love the quotes

An Uneducated Consumer Is Our Best Customer -

Sorry new to all this internet forum. I had to look up trolling along with several other acronyms you guys use.

I am not saying i am better smarter or right about everything. I express my opinions and respond to individual posts directed towards myself. I enjoy a health educated debate. If you can't hack it by just facts and not use slanderous remarks you might fit in on this post.

Kudos to you!

anyone here soaking there cards?
 

I find this distrubing and please someone back this up. I understand the reason why, however you guys areslamming me for aging reprints while you guys are soaking originals and altering the card in such a way to get a higher grade. When your selling your card to you disclose to the buyer, hey i gave this a bath in water for a couple days do it would look nicer for you and so i caould sell it to you at a higher price. So who's really doing the missleading?

Soaked=Real Fake=Fake

Soaking is not altering the card. Giving a card a bath just cleans it up and lifts the grime, no crime, nothing to disclose. If someone takes the time to clean up a card and make it look nicer than it was they deserve to get a higher price, after all, eye appeal is everything.

People who soak cards to remove paper, gum, etc. from the card are not trying to defraud the people they are selling it to or creating a situation where someone is defrauded. Often people do disclose that a card was altered when they sell it.

Original card + water = nicer original card ... no fraud
Reprint card + "aging" = unknown reprint card...fraud

BTW, if you know the answer as you state, why ask the question?

Soaking?
 

Ok. So if you soak the card to enhance the appeal of the card doesn't sanding, re backing, trimming help enhance the card too?

So if soaking's ok then whats wrong with trimming or rebacking as long as the reback is an original card? Don't those enhance the appeal of the card too?

The word card doctors come to mind.

Derek- do you actually believe your argument, or are you just giving everybody a hard time?

This reminds me of a guy I knew years ago who started selling computer cards for satelite dishes which enabled you to recieve pay channels at no monthly cost. I asked him about the legality of it and he said ,"it's legal for me to sell them,but it's illegal for people to use them".:rolleyes: