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-   -   Hey, pennant guys (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=183684)

Domer05 09-08-2020 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thetahat (Post 2015509)
Correct, the Phillies always had this logo, Trench used it for years. As for the early 70s series with all teams ... perhaps. There seem to be lots of Yankees/Mets pennants that have some similarities and that would suggest Hanco, I believe Domer located them in NY.

Correct. HANCO was also known as the HANCO Art Novelty Co. Looks like they were in business as early as 1946 when they were located at 121 W. 27th St. in New York City. They existed through the 1980s; but were dissolved by the 1990s. Although they clearly made those early 1960s AL and NL mini pennants, we haven't found much more from them that ties them to professional sports pennants. They seem to have focused on travel/souvenir pennants.

Football Rob once found a NY Football Giants pennant by them; but, I think that's really it for them. I'm not aware of anything else. They may indeed have made some limited runs for New York teams....

I don't believe HANCO made that full size Houston pennant. I think they copied the artwork of others when they put that mini set together, as evidenced by that orbiting hat artwork they used--which seems to have been borrowed from Trench, as Greg points out.

Domer05 09-08-2020 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fballguy (Post 2015557)
For those intrigued by the late 60, early 70s, oddball and bootleg pennants...I found this picture pretty interesting.

1) I love finding lots of pennants from the same series/maker and it appears that is the case here. I recognize many Adflag designs. Are they all Adflag? The Astros, Expos, Royals, Padres appear to be similar to each other but not the others.

2) Many depict styles that are often attributed to earlier decades. This lot is clearly from the very late 60s or more likely early 70s. I know at least a few of these have felt counterparts and designs were often used over years so not really surprising. But is that the case here or are these copies/bootlegs? Hard to see for sure, but I don't see makers marks on any of them. The Mets for sure screams bootleg to me.

3) None have a MLB trademark. By the early 70s, were they mandatory? Was Adflag exempt from using one?

4) They are all monochrome which is a hint to Ad Flag, but Ad Flag started to produce multi colored pennants in the 1960s. Did they go back to monochrome or always continue to produce them?

5) If you're as interested in this as I am, raise your hand. :D

I can think of no pennant by ADFLAG or WGN that ever bore an MLB logo. Like, not a single one. When MLB began licensing their marks in 1969, it appears they offered only Trench and ASCO this right. So, you won't find anything by other companies with the MLB logo because they would never have been officially licensed to make MLB pennants.

That doesn't mean they didn't make MLB pennants in 1969; it just means they weren't "officially licensed" merchandise.

I believe ADFLAG gave up on professional sports pennants by 1969, perhaps even a few years earlier. I could be wrong on this; but, after speaking with their owner, that's the impression I was left with. WGN, however, seems to have hung on through 1969, perhaps even a year or two later. They made a Reds pennant referencing them as "The Big Red Machine," which suggests it was made after 1969.

Fballguy 09-08-2020 07:53 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05 (Post 2015728)
I can think of no pennant by ADFLAG or WGN that ever bore an MLB logo. Like, not a single one. When MLB began licensing their marks in 1969, it appears they offered only Trench and ASCO this right. So, you won't find anything by other companies with the MLB logo because they would never have been officially licensed to make MLB pennants.

That doesn't mean they didn't make MLB pennants in 1969; it just means they weren't "officially licensed" merchandise.

I believe ADFLAG gave up on professional sports pennants by 1969, perhaps even a few years earlier. I could be wrong on this; but, after speaking with their owner, that's the impression I was left with. WGN, however, seems to have hung on through 1969, perhaps even a year or two later. They made a Reds pennant referencing them as "The Big Red Machine," which suggests it was made after 1969.

So would you say these are Ad Flag and made prior to 1969? The Brewers and Rangers are definitely post-1969. The Expos, Padres, Astros, Royals may or may not be as well.

I've always attributed these two football pennants to Ad Flag but they are from 1972. They are very similar in style to the baseball pennants pictured.

Domer05 09-08-2020 01:19 PM

These two football pennants do indeed look like ADFLAG's work. They're monochrome, full body illustration, and tassel-less. Additionally, the steeler graphic was adapted from a larger rendition of the same player used for NFL and AFL pennants in the 1960s. And the matching texts confirms both were from the same maker.

When were these made do you suppose?

As to the baseball pennants ... I recognize most to be from ADFLAG. The Oakland A's one is by Trench. Not sure about the Padres one ... if made by Trench in 1969 or later I'd expect to see the MLB logo on it, which this lacks. Perhaps it was made in 1968, in anticipation of the team's creation? It's very similar to a white Padres pennant that Keezer made at the decade's end.

The Rangers, Royals, and Brewers one are a mystery to me....

The Astros one is an ADFLAG for sure.

perezfan 09-08-2020 03:16 PM

The Rangers, Brewers, Padres and probably Royals are not AdFlag Pennants. There is another elusive one from this same “mystery maker”. It’s the Mariners “Mermaid” pennant linked below....

https://www.mearsonlineauctions.com/lot-5092.aspx

These were made in the 1970s and were most likely “bootlegs” for lack of a better term. Probably sold outside of the stadiums by street vendors, and not sanctioned by MLB. Thus, they had a short run, and are lots tougher to find than most Pennants from the ‘70s.

thetahat 09-08-2020 03:25 PM

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Who made these monstrosities?

thetahat 09-08-2020 03:32 PM

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I have a few AdFlags but keep them all buried, never again to see daylight. Except for one. I think it’s an early AdFlag. Really soft - softer than my creepy bum Brooklyn AdFlag. It’s on the wall because of its rarity and because it’s the Phillies ... but it is so butt ugly I think I have to move it along. (Mark - we’ve discussed this one, as you know.) Somehow the AdFlag artists followed it up with something worse, that creepy Quaker on navy and then baby blue felt.

thetahat 09-08-2020 03:43 PM

Best baseball pennant “sets” in my opinion:

#1 Trench early 50s block letters (featuring Emmet Kelly, Uncle Sam head, Capitol building Senators). Classic, heavy soft felt

#2 WGN 1951-52 (featuring Cubs NL Anniversary pennant and Reds bomber - my avatar)

#3 ASCO 1969 cloth (white Pilots)

#4 Trench circa 1955 with TMC trademark (earliest Stadium pennants with Ebbets and Polo Grounds)

#5 late 40s unknown maker with the thin tassels and occasional airbrushed colors, this includes the angry Brownie

Best football set: early 60s Trench AFL

Fballguy 09-08-2020 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Domer05 (Post 2015837)
These two football pennants do indeed look like ADFLAG's work. They're monochrome, full body illustration, and tassel-less. Additionally, the steeler graphic was adapted from a larger rendition of the same player used for NFL and AFL pennants in the 1960s. And the matching texts confirms both were from the same maker.

When were these made do you suppose?

As to the baseball pennants ... I recognize most to be from ADFLAG. The Oakland A's one is by Trench. Not sure about the Padres one ... if made by Trench in 1969 or later I'd expect to see the MLB logo on it, which this lacks. Perhaps it was made in 1968, in anticipation of the team's creation? It's very similar to a white Padres pennant that Keezer made at the decade's end.

The Rangers, Royals, and Brewers one are a mystery to me....

The Astros one is an ADFLAG for sure.

Pretty safe to say the two football pennants are from late 1972. The Dolphins and Steelers met in the AFC Championship Game on Dec 31, 1972. Dolphins were on their way to wrapping up their 17-0 season. I don't think I've seen any other 1970s conference championship games commemorated with pennants like this.

bocca001 09-08-2020 04:28 PM

I can't get the Mariners pennant to open for some reason. Can someone post a screenshot?

I happen to like Greg's creepy Phillies pennant and I've see the Blue Quaker. I say put them up for Halloween.


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