a) Mark has too damn many pennants! ;)

b) I love all of those "stadium" pennants!

Ha...I bid on that Rob but didn't want to go north of $100. Didn't think it was rare enough for you to not have it. I was going ask but figured it was too common. I guess pink socks are hard to come by. ;)

WTF is a Fballguy doing bidding on "my" Giants pennants??? :mad: ;) :eek: :D

Besides, I thought your pennant budget was going into travel...

I'm like a metronome rocking back and forth. One day I'm leaning travel. The next I'm leaning pennants. That was a pennant day. ;)

Looks like somebody bought the Dodgers pennant. I didn't like the looks of the tip.

Now that you mention it, it does look a little funky on the top side.

It's pretty unique...but not completely unique.

Attachment 387181

I bid on the Giants pennant, but already have a decent copy (of the bright pink socks versions). I see that baseball Rob has several different versions. It always seems strange to me when there are so many versions of the rare pennants. But it also makes if fun to collect.

I'm still looking for the Astros version posted by football Rob. It's probably from the maker (series?) as the top pennant in the pic below (same not super high quality image of the Astrodome), which is very rare.

Now for another can o’ worms ... this here Mets stadium pennant, which personally I love. The artwork has a great 60s looks to it, almost like the Jetsons or old Flintstones. And it’s cloth. But this doesn’t seem to fit with the other stadium pennants, as if it was a unique company. Just looks different. Thoughts?

EDIT: Actually the year and the writing below is similar to some others, come to think of it ...

I remembered seeing a similar pennant, and was able to find the a listing for it in an ITPC auction from 2008 (it seems the minimum bid of $125 wasn't met).
Seems to be the same graphic on the left, but one says Los Angeles, the other Dodgers, and the look of the lettering is quite different. The auction listing refers to the one on the bottom as originating "as a souvenir at Hawaii's Columbia Inn which was billed as the second home of the L.A. Dodgers".

Rick

Attachment 387196

Circa 1910 New York Giants
 

Today's pick. Black and Orange. Full size. Crisp. Phiti compliments of Mayseum

Interesting pennant, but are you sure?

I don't think the Giants used orange in the early 1900s. Those don't look like 1910's tassels to me either. I'm sure others here will know for sure.

The Giants didn’t put orange into their color schemes until 1949. Prior to that, it was mostly red and blue.....and even purple. :confused:

Not sure if I posted this recent pick up here.

Attachment 388752

Sweet pickup Mike!

I've never collected Basketball, but if I did, that one would be a "Top 5".

Giants pennant
 

Waiting for Mr. Steinberg's assessment

Well unfortunately I have to agree that it's a significant leap of faith to definitively call this one a NY Giants Pennant. The Giants primary colors were red and blue throughout the teens. Please see the link below...

http://exhibits.baseballhalloffame.o...ar&increment=9

While the pennant in question is very attractive, is unquestionably vintage, and has what we now consider to be traditional Giants' colors... it's unlikely that it's a Giants Pennant from the teens. Pennants like this were made as city souvenirs, and were also displayed at parades, conventions, and various local celebrations.

It's always a gamble with these generic types that list the City only (with no team name, mascot or logo present). I routinely shy away from these, although there are a few that are completely legit. Examples of Boston Red Sox and Braves embroidered pennants come to mind, as well as the Cincinnati Reds.

So with regard to the pennant in question, I'd give it a very small of being a Giants Pennant. While it is remotely possible, the colors are incorrect for the era. Furthermore, there are plenty of other Giants Team pennants from the teens that do include the team name or an identifiable mascot/logo.

Hope this is helpful,
Mark

Now you're just showing off, Mark! :D

Just had to solidify my point, haha. :D

But seriously it is an important rule of thumb for vintage pennant collectors...

Be extremely cautious when considering a generic pennant purchase. Really do your homework, and let logic prevail over wishful thinking. I know that we (as collectors) automatically identify pennants with Baseball, or with Sports in general. But they were also quite popular at other non-sporting events back in the day.

If I saw an image of a generic pennant in a vintage photo, being waved in the stands, I'd feel comfortable buying it. But anything less is a big leap of faith, without proper or convincing provenance.

Although I'm a Giants fan, I really like that Pirates pennant, Mark. That is super cool.

PSA Pennant Steinberg Authentication
 

Ready to invest.

Vintage College Pennant Pickup
 

It’s been awhile since I’ve seen any vintage pennants, but picked up these college pennants, today.

Mark, what are your thoughts about these two? Indians, I’m pretty sure. Tacoma Tigers? They seem like a similar style, and I’ve seen an old NY Giants pennant with nine players’ profiles ...

(The Tacoma pennant does have a weird spine ... extends beyond the pennant on top and bottom, no tassels)

Both undoubtedly baseball. Cleveland is obvious... nine Indians to represent nine men on the field. Plus, Wanstall (the artist) was a long-time employee of the team. I have an article on him buried somewhere, but would really have to dig to find it.

Tacoma Tigers is a gorgeous oversized pennant as well. I know a few prominent PCL collectors that own this pennant and will attest to its affiliation with the baseball team. It’s been sold in major sports auctions as such over the years, as well.

The generic pennants that concern me are the ones with just a city name and no team name, emblem or mascot. So no worries or doubts with those two, Greg!

To echo what Mark said, they are both baseball. I wasn’t aware of the artist association, but too obvious with the 9 individuals. I thought somewhere there was a game photo reference for the Tacoma pennant. I may be wrong, but someone might chime in.

I assume the Giants profile pennant you are referencing is the early 20’s World Series version with the matching Yankees? Those two are awesome pennants and I haven’t seen those surface since the Halper auction. I think there is another example of the Giants one in much lesser condition.

Thanks guys ... yes I forgot about the matching Yankees pennant. Beauties!

Now with all this down time ... teaching from home, baseball season cancelled ... maybe it’s time to put together a pennant-by-design archive, at least with what I have. Not a price guide but a gallery.

Yes!

Get on it! :D

Just a heads-up for pennant collectors (Football in particular...)

If you are previewing the upcoming Heritage Auction, you will want to pay particular attention to their "rare" Steelers Pennant....

https://sports.ha.com/itm/football/c...osition=1795|0


You will want to steer clear, unless you collect High School Pennants, as this one is clearly from Fontana High School in CA. The Pittsburgh Steelers NEVER used this logo...

https://wikivisually.com/wiki/Fontana_High_School


Furthermore, Heritage's Consignor knowingly consigned this pennant to Heritage, as a High School Pennant. Please note that same exact pennant appeared in a prior ITPC Auction with the proper disclaimer in bold red font. Same exact flaw under the "S" in Steelers... same exact pennant (see link below...)

http://www.insidetheparkcollectibles...-lot16657.aspx


So the consignor "conveniently" failed to mention to Heritage that the pennant is from Fontana HS. Instead of a pre-auction estimate of $600, that number should be roughly $25. Please beware of the sleaze within the hobby, as not all of it resides on the Card side.

Thank you, Mark!

Who’s being shady, here? Heritage, the consignor or both? :confused:

Mark,
There you go making sense again. How dare you sir. Now that it’s appeared in a “national” auction they’ll be people referring to this in the future. “Rare” don’t ya know.

Without a doubt not the Pittsburgh Steelers but people will believe what they want...or what an auction house tells them. Like the Packers pennant that ended on eBay today. I wouldn't have risked $50 on it, but it sells for $485.

Baseball Rob:
I'd put this one more upon the consignor. But Heritage certainly failed to do its due diligence, in taking the consignor's word as the gospel. And they should've spared the accolades of how rare it is without really knowing (not to mention their crazy $600 pre-auction estimate).

So although the consignor knew what it is (or more appropriately isn't), Heritage bears some of the responsibility. Let's call it 75% Consignor / 25% Heritage. Just my opinion...

Football Rob:
Completely agree... No way that's a Green Bay Packers Pennant. It's likely that a combination of wishful thinking and the usual Packer fanaticism both contributed to that goofy price realized. Like the aforementioned Steelers, I'd bet it's a misidentified High School Pennant.

Mark - you said the consignor consigned it to Heritage, as a high school pennant. Your syntax is normally impeccable, but this time it threw me. :p

Saw that one too. Early and one of a kind. Good stuff.

Oh sorry... the more worked up I get, the worse my grammar gets. At least that's the excuse I are going with. :rolleyes:

I’d love to see!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same here... sooner the better. It's getting boring self-isolating and watching old movies. Would much rather watch a vintage pennant presentation... especially if its from Greg's collection!

Definitely going to get on it ... promise!

What the......? :eek:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-ORI...rdt=true&rt=nc

Was watching that one. Winning bidder is a new member with 0 feedback and 100% bid activity with this seller. Me thinks somebody doth sniped too much.

Hey, pennant guys
 

Ah, misunderstood at first... sounds sketchy

Could it be that this is a scarce pennant and two or more guys wanted it very badly and just got caught up in the moment. Stir crazy from being quarantined and alcohol can led to very bad decisions. So I’ve been told.

It’s fairly rare. I paid $87, shipped, for mine.

I bid on this early just to make sure I did not forget about it and then saw my bid quickly passed by someone with a bunch of small incremental bids and 100% with the seller. So, I just stopped. Even though I knew funny stuff was going on with this one, $949 is just insane and can't really have involved a pennant person.

I'm really looking for the Orange and Black version of this pennant. Do you have that one Rob?

OK, I’d say you got a really good deal, and someone really overpaid on this latest one.

Yes... the actual value is about midway between what Rob paid and the eBay price (whether real, fake or otherwise). What a steal, Rob!

I’ve got it in those colors. Rarer than the blue, for some reason. Just drop me a PM if interested, Marc. I don’t really want to “socially distance” myself from it, but could use some income right now. My gig has evaporated for the time-being, so I can offer it up at a good price, if you’re interested.

Yes, I do. I hope you and Mark can come to a deal.

Those are nice pennants. Much nicer than the blue version. I did want to comment about the orange color as someone mentioned them not using orange prior to late 40’s, but this is definitely earlier than late 40’s. I do think that other pennant was just a city pennant, but the late 40’s date kind of threw me for color. Wondering why you think that late?

The Giants didn’t have orange in their uniforms until 1949.

Thanks, Mark. I just sent you an e-mail.

Rob- your version sure does have a lot of tassels (or is that the blue version underneath?).

I enjoy checking this thread so much, great information, wonderful photos just great stuff!

No one commented but Joe Hunter those college pennants are really neat!

Not the blue version, but some other 3/4 NYG pennant.

Mini pennant just out of quarantine. Astros stuff without the Astrodome can be tricky to find.

Picked up a couple not too thrilling, top and bottom. Any guesses who did the HOF pennant? It can't be any older than 1973, because Clemente is on it. I always liked the "Giant with bat," so I picked up the 20 incher. Any idea what the "tassels" were for? I'm thinking maybe it was part of one of those NL "strings" but don't remember seeing a string with this design...

That HOF pennant was updated over time as new players were added to the Hall. I believe the first one came out in the 1950s or early 60s. Someone on here probably has an early one.

I think the tassels were just a style used for a time. This is from a dated 1935 pennant with the same type of tassels.

Rob,
On those HOF pennants, they generally put the newest guys near the middle of the pennant. Obviously you have it narrowed down pretty good with Clemente being on there.

I’d like to see an early one!

Here is one...Description noted 1950s. I'm sure someone here can be more specific.

What was the logic behind who was pictured on the pennant?

Did any other teams use this stadium and crossed bats style?

Not “my boys.” That picture is more Ebbets than Wrigley, no?

Yep, that’s not Wrigley. But it’s really hard to find.

I think those were the only two teams to use it. And agree with Mike... for every dozen or so Dodgers examples you see, there is maybe one Cubs.

12 x 9 rectangular pennant / banners
 

ok pennant afficianados, what are we looking at here? it measures 12 x 9 inches and is made of a stiff felt pennant material with a dowel through the top for the string at the top. It has the feel of being from a series for all teams but i'm not sure. please give your thoughts...

Pretty cool, Chris...

Looks to be vintage 1970s (maybe early '80s). And I agree that it looks like something that would've been made for all teams.

With all the Reds stuff, and the thousands of pennants/banners I've seen over the years, I can honestly say I've never seen one of these. Must have had a very limited production run. Hopefully someone here can shed some light!

Interesting and very cool! ... I do notice that logo is not trademarked. For whatever that means ...

Chris,
I would say late 60’s like some of the other non conforming “pennants”. Especially with the dowel and string. I don’t have any exact info, but I immediately thought 67-68ish before seeing what Mark said. I’ll see if I can find anything like that, but I rarely keep example type stuff.

Thanks for your input so far fellas!

I’m now thinking if it is a licensed product (not bootleg) it has to be 1968. That’s apparently the first year of that logo, and from 69 on logos on licensed products were trademarked.

Thanks, Greg. That also echo's Jason's thoughts. I guess we might be looking at an early big red machine era pennant.

Well perhaps I stand corrected on the timing by a couple of years. The combination of the super stiff "felt" and that version of "Running Man" Mr. Red are more indicative of the '70s to me personally.

Here is a great article on Mr. Red, as he evolved through the years, with very specific timelines. Link directly below...

https://uni-watch.com/2015/08/24/rad...tudy-3-mr-red/


So 1968 is when the Running Man Logo first officially appeared. But I can assure you that Crosley Field was still loaded with souvenirs, pennants and epherma of the more classic version of Mr. Red all the way through the 1968 season (see the guy pictured, as well as two links below...)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Housto...MAAOSw0TxdUJJo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-CINCIN...4AAOSwsAdeRMYl

Awesome Banner, regardless of the exact year. But if similar ones were created for other teams, you'd think we would have seen at least one other example. So it might remain a mystery until another one surfaces!

I grew up in Ohio and hated the Big Red Machine. I was in a bar at Ohio University, waving with Carlton for that HR to stay fair. I was about the only one. My Giants whupped the Reds in the first MLB game I ever attended. :D

That's funny Rob...


Our family moved from SF to Cincy in 1967. If not for that move, I would be right there with you. I always liked the Giants, even as a Reds fan.

But gotta say the night of that Fisk Home Run was a "Bottom 3" for me... well, for about 24 hours, anyway. :rolleyes:

These days, I would love to see the Reds take down the Cubs/Cardinals/Brewers!

Interesting stuff Mark and thanks for sharing. It's definitely possible it's from the 70's but by the aged look of it in person, I would guess late 60's or early 70's. Good point about not seeing other teams in this style though. We may never find the answer...

Who came first? Mr. Red ... or Mr. Met?

I'm guessing Mr. Red. If so, how do Reds fans feel about such a blatant copy of their mascot?

Hate him!

Mr. Met is a blatant imposter who came along over a decade later. :mad:

Mystery marks
 

A few months ago we debated the meaning of certain marks found on 1970s pennants: namely "VET" and "M." Nobody really had a clear answer. My opinion then, as now, is that these were likely concessionaire's marks rather than maker's marks.

The below Dodgers pennant was made in the late 1960s, early 1970s. It exists in three different variants. The first shows the ASCO maker's mark. My presumption is ASCO made all variants of this pennant. Three other variations exist: blank; "VET"; and "M."

I just bought the "M" variant. The owner shared with me, in passing, that he/she purchased it in the 1970s at Riverfront Stadium.

I recall baseball Rob owning a similar Giants pennant bearing the same "M" thereon. He's also from Ohio. Might this "M" have been an Ohio retailer?


Unfortunately for my theory, it appears that Riverfront Stadium's concessionaire was Sportservice when it opened in 1970. And, to my knowledge, Sportservice never utilized a concessionaire's mark resembling an "M".

So whatever this "M" means, it may have something to do with Ohio. And that "VET" one may, in fact, have something to do with Veteran's Stadium/Philadelphia after all.

Speaking of concessioner's marks. This is what they looked like in 1936.