Net54baseball.com Forums - the list (of criminals) is revealed

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)

- Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - the list (of criminals) is revealed (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=217245)

David James was right. David Peck only comes over here for drama. And harassment. Well....I guess he found it in this thread. And since the PSA board has died so much, he wants to stir the pot here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAllen2556 (Post 1497396)

The people here are incredibly knowledgable about this hobby. This is an amazing website - it's one of the very few (but by far the best) places on the internet which acts as any sort of check to the rampant dishonesty in this hobby. Just reading the stuff here has saved me a ton of money, and I appreciate the efforts enough to buy many here an adult beverage if I ever ran into you! But should it come down to one free website run by people who care to police the entire industry? I just don't understand why no one has ever put together some sort of association that polices this hobby. It's way overdue, and obviously necessary.

Maybe the industry leaders should appoint a respected public figure to step in and clean up the auctions and 3rd party grading companies. You know, appoint a judge Landis figure to be Commissioner of Sports Collecting. Anyone who is banned for life could surreptitiously collect Black Sox memorabilia. Any suggestions?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAllen2556 (Post 1497396)

I have a few questions for veteran collectors and dealers, as I am just a simple business owner who collects but has never spent more than $800 on anything hobby related. And btw, I'm not, in any way, trying to mitigate was has happened. One of the names on that list makes me believe I was probably a victim myself once.

But as veterans of the hobby, when you placed bids on high profile stuff at major auctions, wasn't there a voice in the back of your noggins that told you it was very likely some sort of shilling was occurring, yet you bid anyway because if the price was what you deemed fair, you told yourself you could live with it? Don't even us amateurs believe that when we're bidding on ebay?

Are you veterans really shocked at all by any of this? If you're in this hobby to make a living, it's just way too easy to cheat, and I imagine for many it becomes almost a necessity for survival. The rewards far, far outweigh the punishment. And it's been that way for decades. And frankly, I don't see how this changes anything. So one or two high profile guys do a little jail time. Do you think for one minute that's going to prevent shilling in the future? I bet there are some who hope prices drop at the major auction houses just so they can swoop in for the bargains! And do veteran collectors with large holdings really mind if prices are artificially inflated? I wonder.

The people here are incredibly knowledgable about this hobby. This is an amazing website - it's one of the very few (but by far the best) places on the internet which acts as any sort of check to the rampant dishonesty in this hobby. Just reading the stuff here has saved me a ton of money, and I appreciate the efforts enough to buy many here an adult beverage if I ever ran into you! But should it come down to one free website run by people who care to police the entire industry? I just don't understand why no one has ever put together some sort of association that polices this hobby. It's way overdue, and obviously necessary.

I was thinking the same thing Scott. It made me think of this scene in Casablanca. How is anyone really surprised?

Peter,

I am sure you don't care about this post. My inbox is full, so if you choose to reply, you can do it here. If you don't that is fine as well. In late, 2014, when I was having an admitted meltdown and several on the board provided positive feedback and counsel, you were snarky and mean in the post. You have that right. It is an embarrassing thread for me to go back and read in retrospect and I deserved every word.

I admired you and your knowledge of the hobby. I admired your collection. On June 4th, Brent from PWCC posted. You had some very pointed criticism about his business practices - up to and including comments about hidden reserves. I have avoided PWCC in recent months - primarly because of my respect for you and the feedback that you provided.

Perhaps there are shades of gray in the hidden reserve that you placed on the lot. I tend to disagree, but, as we have established, I am low-end post war guy with some drama queen tendencies, so my opinion doesn't matter. However, If I were Brent at PWCC, I would take issue with the way that you were quick to smoke out his perceived issues while quickly sweeping this under the rug.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=206854

reading this after the fact, has some irony.

In reply to post 26

Quote:

Which auction houses still have hidden reserves?

(post 27)

From Post 125

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yet another example of Hamlet's "the lady doth protest too much, methinks."

KEVIN AILES

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAllen2556 (Post 1497396)

Are you veterans really shocked at all by any of this?

Not even the smallest bit. This hobby was loaded with bad actors when I got into it in the late 80's, the 90's were the same, and the 21st century has been no different. It's very unlikely to change even after this 'revelation', which really can't be surprising to anyone who was actively in the hobby during 2007-2009.

There is one very good thing to come out of this, that Bill Mastro has permanently exited the hobby. In my opinion, all of the other players combined can't compete with the damage he did by himself.

Bill

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcornell (Post 1497409)

There is one very good thing to come out of this, that Bill Mastro has permanently exited the hobby.

Bill,

Not for a second do I believe Bill has exited the hobby. We may not see his name but it is my opinion (and it is just that, an opinion) that he is still "in the hobby" somehow.

"Never" Or at least "RARELY"

Beastmode offers some good advice (see boldface and enlarged type for added emphasis). Perhaps not "never" but certainly "rarely" will one be a victim of shilling, if followed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beastmode (Post 1496930)

here's 25001.

I'm surprised so many folks are surprised. In-house proprietary auction houses make little sense from a financial perspective and can be easily manipulated by the ah. Shilling is probably still rampant on the ones that are left. You can't even see the bidders, which is the first clue as to what is going on there.

E-bay has already spent billions building this software platform; and they do all the maintenance, upgrading, hardware, security, power, cooling, etc; for pennies. Does e-bay have shilling? Of course. But at least i have some information to review in bid history to make my own assessment.

lastly, and it's been beat to death, stay within your budget and be patient, and you will never be a "victim" of shilling again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oya311 (Post 1497304)

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Moving post this forward.

I know most of you guys have thousands, maybe hundereds of thousands tied up in your collection. But this hits us lower grade collectors too.

My $100 card is the same as your $1000 when you consider expendable income.

Personally, the SGC news bothers me most. They are who I use (I have a T206 sub there now). I'm kinda rattled with all this information that has come to light.
And, ironically, when I pulled this page up, an ad that said "Trust SGC" was at the top.:eek:

To the two that has come forward and told their story, I thank you. What you did was unethical, but you aren't running from it.

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xplainer (Post 1497418)

You'll be over all this in a month.

An xls version of the Govt's Exhibit for those looking for an easier format