Can you tell how the player was applied to the pennant? I'm a little suspicious on two fronts: the player image looks different--almost like a photo--than others I've seen on old pennants; and the pennant style looks like one used commonly for generic state and university pennants of the era. Not saying it's not original, but my radar would be up on this one.

Oh, it's the "Real McCoy" alright. Here's another one for sale by a fellow N54 contributor:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/2017660...d_out_detail=1

There would have been three pairs of tassels, originally.

The graphic looks like a photograph because of a revolutionary process this maker utilized for reproducing the same image, over and over again, on a felt or cloth medium. I'm not 100% sure, but I think this process involved engraving the negative image on a metallic plate; then transferring the image to the felt/cloth applique via ink by pressing the two together. It was cheap; you could make thousands of identical images in no time; and the level of detail was astounding (hence the appearance of a photograph). It was done a lot like how early printers printed newspapers.

Maybe you can tell us whether the applique was sewn to the felt, or glued? I've never been sure.

Also, if you want to display this, rather than restoring it, consider laying brand new felt beneath it that matches your pennant's colors. When viewed from a distance, it will look like one, cohesive pennant. It's much cheaper this way; and, you won't have to mess with the integrity of the pennant, which I think is important for a piece of this age.

Whatever you decide, post some pictures! Beautiful piece. Glad it's coming home.

Hey guys,

New to pennants, saw these pennants in a local auction and took a stab at it. I may have over paid, but thought they were neat. Just to learn a bit more about them and make sure I don't get taken, are there any pennants here that I should pay special attention to? A dealer at the national was interested in buying the group, but I wanted to know a bit more about them first and understand what would be a fair price.

Thanks for your help!
Jason

[QUOTE=Domer05;1905639]Oh, it's the "Real McCoy" alright. Here's another one for sale by a fellow N54 contributor:

https://www.etsy.com/listing/2017660...d_out_detail=1

Note the damage, it's the same pennant

Is it just me, or is the damage pattern remarkably similar?

Thanks guys. It is definitely a period piece. The link you shared is the pennant that I purchased from a Net54 member, so I’m fairly certain this is the only one. I’m working with an Oklahoma baseball historian to try to narrow down what team it could represent. Unfortunately, in that time period you had college, semi-pro and minor league clubs.

Both the player and letters are sewn on and it is three pairs of tassles. I haven’t made any decisions on how to proceed with it yet. My hope is that the conservator can give me guidance on how best to preserve and display it. There is A LOT of moth damage, so being able to stabalize it from further damage is my #1 priority. It’s really impressive in person and will ultimately display well.

[QUOTE=Darner;1905678]What he said.

Lots of $100-$150 pennants here. You might be able to squeeze $200 out of the Dimaggio in that condition. The 1957 looks to be in decent shape. If the tassels are intact, that's a $200-$250 pennant. The red 1947 is the cream of the crop. In that condition, that looks like an $800-$1,000 pennant to me.

I'm intrigued by the 1976 "Yankees are back" pennant. That has all the earmarks of the bootleg pennants that were so common in the 1970s. I've developed a taste for those as of late, so if you're interested in selling, let me know.

Thanks! I really appreciate the info. I don’t have them in hand yet, but will post more pictures when I have it. Do you think the 1936 pennant has any value?

I had a similar idea, but using mat board instead of felt. Mat board comes in a TON of colors, so you ought to be able to find a close match.

Oh yeah...I didn't even notice that one. That's a easily a $300+ pennant in good condition. Yours looks a little faded. If the tip is intact, I'd say you could get $200+. Just my opinion...There are many here with more baseball pennant knowledge than me.

Just curious...What auction house were these in?

Potter and Potter. There was also a neat group of 40+ Yankees mini pennants that sold. I won those too.

Where did the link to the other one go?
 

I saw it briefly and the similar damage pattern and overall appearance caught my attention, too. Was that the same pennant, then? And either way, I'm still not sold on it. I'm not the biggest expert on them, but have collected and bought and sold a lot of pennants over the years and don't remember seeing one like this. If the player was the result of a well-known manufacturing process, as was mentioned, I'd like to see other examples.

There are others out there. This Pennant is absolutely authentic. I can’t see the Etsy links but know that Keith J. Is a true expert and a very reputable seller. I’ve bought and traded with him many times, and this is one you just need to see in person.

I understand the concern because the mascot looks so different. But it is legit...

Some were embroidered on and others were glued. Some of these applied insignias were cloth, some were felt and some were leather. I suspect this one might be the latter, but can tell better if/when the new owner can post some good close-up pics.

Regardless, it’s a nice find and a beautiful piece, despite the rough condition. Eager to see how the “final product” looks after matting/framing.

I’ve collected/bought/sold Baseball pennants forever... and can’t add much to what Rob already stated. He pretty much nailed it. The only others I’d mention are the two from 1950...

Bronx Bombers is a desirable one... roughly worth $175 - $200, and yours looks nice.

White pennant with Sliding Play is impossible to find in acceptable condition. Very soft felt pennant that did not stand the test of time. Plus the white felt is very subject to soiling. Yours looks better than the vast majority. Worth $150 - $175, given the condition is as nice as it looks.

Lastly, the 1957 WS Pennant is pretty rare. Prob. worth $200 on a good day.

Nice haul!

Thanks for the info. This is the same pennant, then? Wonder what happened to the link.

I’m guessing he deleted the item (and link) because the item is no longer for sale since it is sitting in my house. :o

Assuming it's legit, it almost has to be the college. Hard to imagine a semi-pro or minor league team using the name of the state instead of the city they played in, although I guess it's possible there were localities with that name in OK or other states.

Regarding the embroidered Oklahoma Pennant, here is another example of similar 1910s “technology”...

https://www.huntauctions.com/live/im...=427&lot_qual=

This is an oversized Tigers example, but in better condition. The Tiger Head is applied leather. It looks a bit more vibrant, due to having less wear. But still very similar to the Oklahoma pennant with regard to materials and design.

Hope this is helpful.

I agree... Most likely a college pennant. Although the colors are more indicative of Oklahoma State than OU. Let us know what you’re able to find out, as it’s an oldie!

Has to be OU, nobody would make an OK State pennant without the "State."

Wasn't State in those days it was Oklahoma A&M and they were members of the Southwest Conference

Has to be OU.

Our third largest university, University of Central Oklahoma, has the colors of Bronze and Blue (adopted in 1895) that match the pennant. At the time, they were Central State Normal School, so they could also be an option.

It will be interesting to research, I would assume most colleges had a baseball program by then. Keep us posted!

My first venture into the world of grommets.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/WxfUN6CY" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/0a/40/WxfUN6CY_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

That's an absolute beauty, Rob! I love that green felt. I have a jet black Yankees companion pennant to that one. Will post a pic, as time allows...

Terrific pickup!

Nice pennant Rob

Nice pennant Rob! Love the colors.

I’m a sore loser on the Yankees one

Where did you pick that up?

Beautiful pennant Rob!

Mike

Just picked this up for a decent price. The batter, catcher, umpire was not a style I owned. Any ideas as to age and/or maker?

It's a really nice one, that's very undervalued, IMHO...

Possibly late 1940s, but early 1950s would be my best guesstimate.

Nice pickup, Rob!

I'm not into pennants, and I know next to nothing about them. About 20-25 years ago, I picked up this Homestead Grays pennant at a local card show. Can someone kindly tell me if this is an original from around the 1940's or if it's a repro - and if it's original, what it's approx. value would be? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

I'd say it's definitely the real deal. No idea of value, tho.

I may bleach the spine. :cool:

Val,
It’s real. There was a find of NOS negro league pennant around the same time you bought this. They were quickly absorbed in to the hobby, but you still see them around generally in great shape. Great pennant. The value would be around $3-400 or so. They have sold for more at auction, but this is about where I would expect to see it offered for sale.

Rob & Jason, many thanks for responding with very helpful information - much appreciated!
Val

It's real, and worth a bit more...

Homestead Grays consistently commands a bit more money than most other Negro League teams in this series. $400 - $500 is more like it.

Best of luck, and great pickup.

Here's a recent sale that went a bit higher than that range...

https://loveofthegameauctions.com/Lo...entoryid=18272

On Val's...The tassels look off to me. Too thick and long.

I think it's ok, Rob...

Quality control was not exactly "state of the art" back then. These pennants were likely cut by hand, and the tassel thickness varied quite a bit. Check out the above linked LOTG example...

It's pretty clear that one of the two tassels is thicker than the other (on both sets of tassels, no less). I suppose there's a slight chance that Val's tassels were replaced, but I'd state with 99% probability that it's all-original.

It’s absolutely real as are the tassels

I don't know man...you guys are the experts...but the pennant looks faded, but the spine is very white. Also, the puckering. I've got many modern pennants with that puckering. Not sure I have any felt ones.

By comparison...The Love of the Game pennant is much more vibrant, yet the spine is more discolored.

Not convinced
 

I'm not sold on the fact that Val's is an original, either, although as a big fan and friend of Val's I hope it is. I see a BIG difference in the LOTG version and those from the supposed warehouse find of the 80s. If nothing else, the find version was either made by different people or by a very different process, or both. The tassels are actually a different color and considerably larger, and the "felt" looks to be of the newer, stiffer type than the old soft felt in the LOTG pennant. I don't know if puckering proves anything, but that's another difference. Negro league material had become quite collectible by the mid to late 80s, and would have been a natural to forge since the original exemplars to compare to were so scarce, so that argument against the possibility of forgeries doesn't hold water for me. I'd like to see some documentation of the "warehouse find" or at least see one of Val's type pennants for sale somewhere earlier than the date of the "find." As a pennant guy, it's a fascinating topic.

Not sure if this known, but the reproductions were made under the name Black Diamond Authentic Series in association with the Negro League Baseball Museum in Kansas City, MO. They're still selling pennants, but none that would be confused for the real thing.

Here is a reproduction Grays pennant with the tag still attached.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/iB6PnhwA" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/46/4a/iB6PnhwA_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Here is a more recent item with a similar Black Diamond Authentic Series tag.

<a href="http://imgbox.com/XgPX3dDR" target="_blank"><img src="https://images2.imgbox.com/cc/ea/XgPX3dDR_o.jpg" alt="image host"/></a>

Rob: Are these Black Diamond reproductions made with raised felt graphics/lettering, like the Mitchell and Ness repros?

I've never owned a reproduction but based on the confusion around which are real and which are fake, I think it's safe to say the answer is no.

Ok, I was buying and selling sports memorabilia and these pennants when the original "find" happened and this was way before anybody was reproducing any of these. Also, if you look closely at Val's pennant you can see there is natural toning in the fibers of the pennant. These repro's are all made of synthetic material that does not age like the others.

The link I included previously Mark and I talk about the original find and show some of the originals. I know everyone is on edge because of all of the shenanigans going on in the hobby, but Val's pennant is completely original and was purchased from the original "find" of these pennants that occurred in the 80's.

Holy Grail of pennants
 

In case anyone was wondering what the Holy Grail of pennants would be, here it is

"Completely original?"
 

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but anybody's eyes can see the differences between Val's pennant and the one auctioned by LOTG, which does look like an original contemporary to the time of the Grays, the 1940s at the latest. I have no idea when Val's was made, but it's definitely not like the LOTG example in several respects, including the material used. I'd be quite surprised if it was made by the same company. So that begs the question: who did make it and when?" I don't find the fact that it was "found" in the 1980s encouraging in that respect. Clearly, it's not like the M&N and other more recent repros, but that doesn't help with when it was made and by whom.

I understand the skepticism, but Val’s pennant is legit.

If you saw the repro and the authentic one side by side in-person, it would be immediately evident.

Then don’t buy it.

Don't worry, I never would.

Why does Val's look so different from the LOTG example?

You made your case back in the 2013 thread that I posted on the previous page and we explained the same thing to you. I explained then and now that these were NEW OLD STOCK that were made in the 40’s and there was a find of these in the 80’s. I have purchased hundreds and hundreds of vintage pennants from different people that ended up not being sold and they sat in a basement with most retaining their NrMt condition except for the ones on the bottom of the box that got wet or stained. When vendors couldn’t sell the material they didn’t just throw it in the garbage, they saved it like every depression era family from that era. Same thing goes with the Muhammad Ali, the 1963 Dodgers WS, the 1965 Dodgers WS, the 1966 Dodgers WS, the Dodgers red / blue opening day, the 3/4 size 1962 NFL pennants, and many many others that were found in quantity over the years.

Mark backs this story up because it is true. If you want to beat a dead horse, go ahead and do it.

Great pickup! I’m a little behind on this thread. I have the same pennant but with the letters K C stapled on amateurishly. I wonder if leftover pennants were sold after the move. Mine was cheap but not $5!

QUOTE=vwtdi;1894219]Picked this one up at a yard sale the other day for $5, anyone want to guess at a year?[/QUOTE]

Sorry last post was in response to philly athletics white elephant pennant— guess I’m a month late

Stanford Pennants
 

Buying LJSU pennants.
Mike Mays, Mayseum, mikeymays@sbcglobal.net

You're the one that keeps saying the same thing over and over again, I'm still searching for an explanation for the fact that Val's pennant looks completely different from the LOTG example. Not only is it patently different, but also inferior in just about every significant aspect: quality of material, quality of workmanship, quality of appearance. The paint is of a thin "see-through" type as opposed to the thick and opaque variety on the LOTG pennant; the cloth is of the stiffer, cheaper composition in contrast to the soft felt of the other one; The color and shape of the tassels doesn't even match that of the pennant, for Christ's sake. If you want to keep claiming one is like the other, you're beating a dead horse I'm never going to buy because my eyes can see that's clearly not true. Having said that, I am open to the idea that Val's pennant was indeed contemporaneous to the team, and I hope that's true, but I'd like to see one example of Val's type, even of another team, that was known to be in existence before the "find" of the 1980s. And even without that evidence, I would hold open the possibility that the "find" truly was manufactured in the 1940s but never put on sale then, but I would also consider it just as or more likely that they weren't made until much later at the same time as the "find."

Is that a four-letter monogram pennant from the Leland Stanford, Jr. University? You gotta love that style. Probably from the 1910s or earlier, right? Back then, there seemed to be no limit to the amount of letters you could throw into a monogram.

If there's a maker's tag on the reverse, feel free to share it.

The monogram looks like the subway map in Tokyo.

My Browns pennant with framing
 

Nice Browns pennant

+1. A real beauty, great pennant and great presentation. And check out the fingernails!

Fantastic pennant! Oversized.... right? If so, it might be the first Oversized Browns Pennant I've ever seen.

There was one touted as such on eBay recently, but it was of the generic variety and may have been just a "City Pennant".

This one leaves no doubts... congrats!

This may be the best framed pennant I’ve seen. The color of the frame itself and the backing board are lighter than the pennant so it really jumps out at you. Where did you find the backing board with the St Louis logos?

I was wondering the same and also am curious... How is the pennant affixed to the matting?

The pennant is from my private Mayseum collection. I have additional LJSU pennants and they are circa 1910. No maker labels.

I had it framed in St. Louis by Dogtown Sports Framing. They came up with the Idea of Browns logos of the era, and they made a computer generated mat with what I presented to them. They wanted to make the logos as dark as the pennant, but I made them lighten them because I wanted the pennant to be the star of the show. It is affixed with acid free tape dots that can come off pretty easy, and we also used museum glass

Thanks! yes it's over sized. The Framer said a guy came in , and commented that he had one just like it. So it is possible there is another one out there.

I would agree. Looks great! I have not been a fan of the rectangular frame approach for pennants as there is typically so much backing space as the pennant narrows. This changes my perception entirely. I also agree with the owner that the subdued logos was the way to go. Very nice!

Pennants v. Banners
 

Let's see your pennant / banner combos

Meant to quote this

The Framer said a guy came in , and commented that he had one just like it. So it is possible there is another one out there.

Sure he does. Sounds like a hundred people that stopped at my table / booth at multiple shows / nationals.

Wow! :eek:

Unique?
 

Picked this up locally and haven’t seen this pennant before or really anything from the team. 18 inches long (not including tassels). Felt.

The Victoria Athletics were a Western International League baseball team based in Victoria, British Columbia that existed from 1946 to 1951. From 1947 to 1949, they were affiliated with the New York Yankees. They played their home games at Royal Athletic Park. Gil McDougald played for them.


The Western International League was a mid- to higher-level minor league baseball circuit in the northwest United States and western Canada. Informally known as the "Willy" loop, it operated in 1922, 1937–1942, and 1946–1954. In 1955, the league changed its name to the Northwest League, and still operates today as a Class A-Short Season loop under that name.

I love it! Especially the batter graphic. Very unique!

Well that’s certainly a rare one...

I love the look as well. And while it’s perhaps not a recommended batting stance, I love the Batter graphic too.

Nice find!