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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Tom, one of my fears about Obama is that if Iran attacks Israel the first thing out of his mouth will be: "both countries need to cease hostilities and sit down and talk."
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>As far as Reverend Wright goes, no it doesn't bother me simply for the fact that there are a lot of crazy preachers out there - witness Sarah Palin's preacher...or Tom Hagee who McCain happily accepted an endorsement from. James Dobson is insane yet he councils president Bush. Plus Wright is old enough to have lived in a Jim Crow America so he has some right to be angry with America IMO. I know WW2 Vets who hate the Japanese still to this day...same for some Vietnam vets hating the Vietnamese...you have to look at someone's life experiences to see where they are coming from.<br /><br />Bill Ayers seemingly has been an accepted part of Chicago politics - his association with Chicago politicians crosses party lines...how are we to know that Obama even knew about Ayers Weathermen past? <br /><br />Does it bother you that nearly every member of congress can be associated with Robert Byrd a former Ku Klux Klan member? Or Jesse Helms an unrepentent Dixiecrat?
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, the issue is not that Wright is simply one of Obama's supporters or that he occasionally hung around the guy. The issue is that Obama sat in the guy's church for 20 years, listened to the hate, did nothing, wrote in his book that Wright was nevertheless his "spiritual advisor", was a surrogate father to Obama...knowing full well the hateful things Wright had said. Obama then gets caught -- finally -- by the mainstream media on this issue and his first response is to continue to protect Wright. Only after Wright basically laughed in Obama's face did Obama throw him under the bus, ironically after Obama had already thrown his own grandmother under the bus. That's the character issue many of us are concerned about not the fact that Wright endorses Obama.
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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Question for Obama Supporters<br />Does the association with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers Bother you and how do you get past it?>><br /><br />Question for McCain supporters: Does the association with George W. Bush and the savings and loan crowd bother you and how do you get past it? Maverick my ass...<br />
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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"If Iran attacks Israel sometime, the sitting president won't be able to push the yellow 'PRESENT' button..........."<br /><br />Tom, this is a non-starter. Having lived with Illinois politics for almost 40 years I, as well as most other Illinoisians, understand that "PRESENT" is a commonly used procedural vote by both Democrats and Republicans alike. <br /><br />If one were to bother to check the voting records of the Illinois Legislature one would find many Republicans with more "PRESENT" votes than Obama.<br /><br /> <br />
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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>In a highly predictable outcome, Obama CLEARLY has the educators and lawyers in his court (no pun intended) though......>><br /><br />Geez, God forbid we let some of the most educated people in America steer the direction of our country instead of the Joe Six Packs and Hockey Moms Palin professes love for and who respond to her Pavlovian drival. Okey dokey, you betcha!
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>McCain threw his wife under the bus. Not that that excuses Obama's behavior towards Wright, but anyone who's looked into it knows that Wright didn't speak like that every Sunday or we'd be seeing more than just that one video. How do you know Obama was even there on that Sunday? There are "Character issues" on both sides...if Obama's relationship with his minister is more of a character issue with you than cheating on your wife is then by all means vote for McCain. If it's more of character issue with you than calling your wife a c*nt then by all means vote for McCain.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Jerry, <br /><br />I don't know that I'd call myself an Obama supporter, but it's a fair question to ask. <br /><br />Ayers - His past is pretty unforgivable, but... he led a group that was opposed to, what history has determined, was a mistake of a war. His methods to fight it went way too far. However, he was never convicted of anything (I know, lame excuse). I don't think he has any reasonable ties to Obama though. They live in the same neighborhood. They served on a board trying to find ways to improve education systems. And Ayers had injected himself into local politics just at a time Obama was getting started. I don't see any long term connection. (Franklin Raines bothers me more.) I would hate to be judged by the company I have kept on school district/financial boards. <br /><br />Wright - A little more troubling, but still hard to measure. My mom was born and raised in Chicago and we spent a lot of time there as kids. Racial tensions in that city have been nasty since the 1960's. Many people, on both sides have been at the radical extremes, including MLK and Jesse Jackson. I find hateful rants on both sides to be counter-productive, but it's difficult to fathom how some people have been forced to live. I've been a Catholic for 53 years and, yet, disagree with a good chunk of what that church and my parish priests say and do. I constantly find myself "mining for nuggets" of wisdom. <br /><br /><br />In summary, I don't find these any more troubling than McCain's association with the Keating Five, or the Bush administration. <br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>McCain would be a marked improvement over Bush (who wouldn't?) The problem though is 1) you have the same bozos in the party hierarchy running the show and influencing appointments who have served so miserably the last 8 years and 2) Sarah Palin.<br />I just don't get it. Even for people who honestly feel John McCain would be a good president and who honestly disagree with the politics of Obama, doesn't it make you nauseous to think of Palin running our country. Isn't that the bottom line? We may disagree on McCain/Obama and their politics and character issues but Palin? Are you frigging kidding me? Of all the women in this world who would be qualified to serve as President you pick this moose-hunting, mental lightweight fraud, non-entity? Unfriggingbelievable....
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, it wasn't one Sunday. It was many, many Sundays.<br /><br />And whatever McCain said about his wife does not concern me as much as Obama's associations with Ayers and Wright. I don't think McCain's comment could hurt our country as much as Obama's decision to hang around with these people. <br /><br />Edited to add: yes, Bob, I agree with you on that: Palin was a ridiculous choice and I said so as soon as it happened, even after the pop in the polls. But I do think that a lot of the attacks against her have been unfair and have infected national opinion of her. She is a sitting governnor in one of our 50 states, remember. The liberal media has just mercilessly attacked her to the point of skewering national opinion. That being said, she was still the wrong choice by a mile.
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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>I like applesauce
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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>She is a sitting governnor in one of our 50 states, remember.><br /><br />So was Jesse "the body" Ventura in Minnesota. Ventura was Woodrow Wilson compared to Palin.
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Posted By: <b>Joe D.</b><p>"I apologize for my condescension in this thread."<br /><br /><br />Dan - <br /><br />I consider you a friend and I admire your passion for the subject.<br /><br />no harm done at all.<br /><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>PC</b><p>"moose-hunting, mental lightweight fraud, non-entity"<br /><br />That was the same reaction (with only slightly different words) to FDR's choice of Harry Truman as VP.<br /><br />One never knows.
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Posted By: <b>Bill Kasel</b><p>Does it bother anybody that McCain was a key component to the Keating Five and somehow managed to not get prosecuted? What dirt did he have on someone to skate those charges?<br /><br />Does it bother anybody that McCain gave a Keynote speech for a Oregon Citizens Alliance Fundraiser? OCA is a notorious anti-gay organization who invited McCain to speak at a function. There were throgns of protestors and all of his advisors warned that it would be a grave mistake to associate himself with such a dispicable group. He chose to go, speak, hang out with the members and not once ever denounce them based upon their hatred for gays. <br /><br />Does it bother anybody that he didn't protest the praise of a known terrorist (Shelly Shannon)who shot a doctor b/c he was performing legal abortions and actually publically expressed sympathy for her?<br /><br />Does it bother anybody that Palin actually believes that humans and dinosaurs co-existed, that she and her husband have strong ties to known Alaskan separatists, and that she cant hold a speaking engagement without saying something that directly cotradicts the McCain campaigns stance?<br /><br />Those who live in glass houses.....<br /><br />Bill
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>What???!!! You guys are going to get along? Didn't you read what Crandall wrote? <br /><br /><<Working together to all support the Barack Hussein Obama agenda--it makes me want to throw up. >><br /><br /><br />This is no time to be getting along! Fight it out in the streets! No more of these "Kumbaya" moments, OK??<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />
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Posted By: <b>Jason</b><p>Jim is just bitter because President Obama is going to prevent him from buying more 8.5s for his registries.
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Posted By: <b>TFerg</b><p>When it comes to political arguements there are no glass houses. It seems you are in dark rooms being fed crap from either Sean Hannity or Keith Olbermann.
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Posted By: <b>1880nonsports</b><p>about Mcpain and Palindrone bothers me. Those who would support them remind me of Grounhog Day and moths drawn to a flame........<br /><br />oh yeah, I forgot.<br /><br />wink<br /><br />wink
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>I don't think Jim's bitter. I think he's mad. And he should be. <br /><br />8 years ago, I knew we had elected an idiot and my expectations were low. 4 years ago, I was shocked that we re-elected him, and my expectations sunk even lower. Nonetheless, Bush managed to underperform those expectations. <br /><br />Jim, on the other hand, thought he had backed a fiscal and social conservative. SURPRISE! This guy was to the left of Clinton. We spent like a drunken sailor. Taxed like we had a trust fund to live off of. And changed nothing on the social front. Jim should be mad. His guy lied to him. <br /><br />People joke here about becoming a socialist country, but it's not so funny when the government (both parties) spends a Trillion $ to bail out businesses, talks about buying mortgages, and buying equity positions in banks. <br /><br />Neither of these guys have any idea what to do.
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Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>T-Bob, don't you go taking shots at Jesse Ventura. He reached the highest approval level of any governor in Minnesota history. He won the race as an Independent (actually as part of the Reform Party), which was a lesson that I really hoped others in this country would follow. He beat an attorney general named Humphrey, and the current US senator Norm Coleman; obviously, neither were lightweights. He won because he was a centrist-- a refreshing alternative to the Dems and Republicans who suck up to their bases and are loathe to compromise or recognize that the majority of Americans don't line up exactly with either of the major party platforms. Most of all, you gotta love a guy who is so busy doing important things that "I ain't got time to bleed". <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Jim VB,<br /><br />Exactly.<br /><br />First if I am bitter about anything its having 180,000 shares of the company I used to work for go from $88 per share to 7 cents. Everything else seems inconsequential (besides the love and health of my family) relative to that.<br /><br />I am not a Bush fan. I am a fiscal conservative who believes in low taxes, low government spending, balanced budgets and free enterprise not lower taxes, astronomical spending, massive deficits and government bailouts.<br /><br />I was not convinced McCain would go to these conservative principles. I supported Romney. However when he picked Palin who I saw as inexperienced but still a conservative I became a more active supporter.<br /><br />If McCain loses I hope its a wipeout so we can go back to a party that is built on the principles listed above.<br /><br />Jim
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Posted By: <b>Jim VB</b><p>Jim C. <br /><br />For the record, I thought the decision to let Lehman go belly up, and then step in and engineer a save of Goldman was ridiculous. Paulson's history clearly got in the way.
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>JimVB,<br /><br />When a Vt. Congressman asked Fuld this question in the hearings I think he said to the grave I will be asking myself that question.<br /><br />Jim
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>the people who support McCain & Palin are nowhere near as dreamy-eyed as the supporters of Obama........<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />And I like this one.............<br />"and that she (Palin) cant hold a speaking engagement without saying something that directly cotradicts the McCain campaigns stance?"<br /><br />Anyone heard Joe "maybe Hillary would have been a better choice than me" Biden talk much? Geez.....even his own party calls him the gaffe machine....<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />And for the people scared of Palin running America (and I am too)........so Barack has infinitely more experience than her? And he's on TOP of the ticket.....Things that make you go hmm...........<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>A Pratt</b><p>Canadian elections anyone?
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Wow, stay away for a couple of days and look what happens.<br /><br />I personally am utterly baffled that anybody would consider voting for McCain/Palin at this point. McCain has been a rubber stamp for the absolute worst president in our country's history. Why couldn't the "maverick" stand up to Dubya when he lead us into a pointless war that has cost tens of thousands of lives (I consider Iraqis as human also)? Why did he support endless de-regulation? Why did he twice support the erosion of our civil rights by voting for the Patriot Act? And why in the world did he chose Sara Palin as a VP candidate?<br /><br />The nomination of Sara Palin was the most idiotic display of pure politics and lack of judgement I think I have ever seen in presidential politics. They mayor of a town of 6000 in Alaska whose extent of knowledge of international politics is that she can see Russia from her front porch is someone to have a heartbeat away from the presidency? So she knows the Dubya trick of droppin the 'g' to sound folksy. She is a woman and a fundamentalist so the political determination was that she would rally the base and maybe pick up a few Clinton defectors. Who among McCain supports honestly believe that McCain thinks she will make the best vp or president of anybody he knows?<br /><br /> I don't want a president I can hang out with. I want one that is qualified to be president. If you don't think you are qualified to be president, why would the guy or gal you share a beer with be qualified? The problem with democracy in this country is that Americans in general no longer think. They swallow the campaign lies and Fox soundbites without an ounce of critical thinking.<br /><br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>Fred C</b><p>Joshua,<br /><br />Most of us are all in that same boat when we look at inflation and our pay checks. I draw a salary each month and I know what my limits are. One thing I would like to make clear is that I'm not blaming people for being foreclosed on unless they didn't consider the rising cost of a variable rate mortgage and how it would impact their budget. For example, some people signed up for very low interest rate loans knowing that their monthlys would be going up. When you start out with an $1800/month mortgage and you know that the payment could increase to over $3K/month, then people had better plan to pay over $3K a month for that mortgage. If they couldn't afford it then they shouldn't have signed on to that loan. That's what I'm talking about. This is where most of the foreclosures are taking place. <br /><br />If you've been offended, I apologize. Trust me when I say I'm in the same economic boat as most people. I am paid a salary (call it a fixed income) and I too am feeling the affects of the rising cost of goods. One thing I can say is that I would never sign up for a mortgage that I couldn't have afforded. <br /><br />Back in the US, back in the US, back in the USSA...OUCH... the DJIA is below 8,000 now....
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>JimB--you don't understand--Obama's qualifications equals Palins qualifications<br /><br />Obama--most radical liberal in Senate.<br /><br />Palin free market conservative.<br /><br />Its an easy decision.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>"The mayor of a town of 6000 in Alaska whose extent of knowledge ....."<br /><br />Ahh, Jim, you're a politician yourself! You recall that Palin is the Governor of Alaska, right? Just like Obama is not still a Community Organzier or a high school kid who smokes pot and snorts coke, right?
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Obama = smart<br />Palin = not smart<br /><br />Easy decision.
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Posted By: <b>Bob</b><p>Jim C- It would be wonderful if the Republican Party re-found its roots and disavowed the far right wingers and haters and lemmings who climbed on board in the 1980's. Sadly, I don't see it happening. The Grand Old Party which was based in the heartland of America upon God-fearing but tolerant and good people is a distant memory.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Dan, Nixon was smart too. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I would take a person of average intelligence who believes in the principles of lower taxes, reduced Government involvement in the economy and free enterprise rather than a smart Socialist.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>it goes both ways........It'd be great if the Democrats would disavow the George Soros' of the world as well........the Moveon.org's, etc. I agree with your statement completely, but you gotta look in your own party as well. <br /><br />And Jim saying people listening to the Fox soundbites.......Fox is the ONLY station that may cater to Republicans/Conservatives. We all know about the rest of the media.....there's absolutely no comparison there. They're almost gleeful when they talk about Obama. They are working to MAKE the news, not REPORT it........<br />
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Bob,<br /><br />Even though I disagree with you on Gomez, Castilla, I was rooting hard for the Twins to win the AL Central. The Twins have some studs who can swing the lumber.<br /><br />Jim
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>How's Wasilla doing financially Jim?
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"Obama--most radical liberal in Senate.<br /><br />Palin free market conservative.<br /><br />Its an easy decision."<br /><br />I don't know if he is the most liberal, but he is definitely a good liberal with a strong vision for getting this country back on track. "Radical" is just an inflamatory term. But I do agree that we desperately need a radical change in the way this country has been run in the last eight years.<br /><br />As for your second two lines, I completely agree. We are all painfully aware of what an overly-deregulated free market has done. I am up for a different approach. So the decision is easy. There are a thousand other reasons it is easy too, but I will leave it at that for now.<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Hey Jeff, here's to hoping that Obama doesn't have the same level of paranoia that Nixon had.
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Tom,<br />Fox is not even a news source in my opinion. It is a shameless propaganda machine for the far right. All editorial spinning, all the time. At least the other major news networks portray both perspectives.<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>What are you talking about Jim? Fox has Alan Colmes who gets a half hour a night where he gets to be shouted down by the likes of Ann Coulter.
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>You're not being objective if you don't see that CBS,NBC,ABC,MSNBC & CNN <br /><h1>ALL</h1> <br />sway to the inside fringe of the far left..........<br /><br />That's a 5 to 1 count by my numbers..........<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />edited to add 'inside' to fringe....not to say that they cater to the biggest kooks on the left. Just the left.
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Oh yeah, I forgot about the ugly, feeble lefty representative.<br />jimB
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>who's on MSNBC or CNN..........?<br />
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Posted By: <b>TFerg</b><p>I'm going to head for the hills and hide with my cardboard, guns, and religion.
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>I don't watch MSNBC, but CNN always has an equal number of voices from both sides and gives them equal time.<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- I think MSNBC's Keith Olbermann offers a nice balanced approach. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Give me a break!!!!<br /><br />Fox News is the only network that comes close to objectivity.<br /><br />MSNBC is out on the radical fringe with Rachel and Keith, CNN with Campbell whats her name has long been a lefty station and the networks have had it in for the Republicans for years and years.<br /><br />Studies have shown close to 95% of mainstream media is democrat. Sort of like Hollywood.<br /><br />Talk radio and Fox are the only place conservatives even have a chance.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- it's show biz. Olbermann and Maddow do what they do to attract a targeted audience. Both are smart, neither are even close to being objective, and choose not to be.
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />I get it. Neither though are CNN, the Networks, the NY Times, Washington Post or the LA Times.
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>So why isn't the Republican Party sufficiently represented in the media? What's your spin on it? They're not a very popular bunch, are they?
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"Fox News is the only network that comes close to objectivity."<br /><br />Jim,<br />If that comment was not meant to be facetious, I can never take any of your political comments seriously again. That is the most ludicrous comment I think I have heard on this board. Even neo-cons will admit that Fox is not objective. Be serious!<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Has nothing to do with overall popularity. If you are a mainstram media type you are a liberal or you leave. Chris Wallace and Britt Hume are example of middle of the road guys who joined Fox to get away from the constant liberal bias.<br /><br />A good book was written on this by ?(Marvin Kalb). Probably not the right name.
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Posted By: <b>Anthony S.</b><p>The first 7 seconds of the clip are fuzzy and pixilated, but then it clears up...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXaGmHhCpMw" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXaGmHhCpMw</a>
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>CNN was just as complicit with the right-wing-Dubya agenda of attacking Iraq as Fox. It was shameful. I would hardly call that left-wing.<br />Jim
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>JimB,<br /><br />Thats because you look at things through a left-wing prism. The left has dominated the mainstream media for so long that when someone who comes along who is balanced it seems to the far left that they must be right wing.
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Posted By: <b>ScottDango</b><p>if this were not an election year, the market carnage would not be as bad....<br /><br />the market is discounting an Obama Win, something that would be very bad for the stock market...his view on taxes and on capital gains is a killer and wall street has taken notice....
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Scott,<br />That must be it. This is all Obama's fault. LMAO<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />Of course you are correct. The assumption of an Obama victory is being priced into the stocks. Not the only reason stocks are going down but certainly a major contributing reason behind wall streets lack of confidence.
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Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Question. Which of the following have influenced the last two elections more<br /><br />A.) The mainstream "liberal" print and television media<br /><br />or..<br /><br />B.) Right-wing controlled "conservative" radio?<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Probably the liberal mainstream media as they reach a lot more people.<br /><br />However, Rush, Sean, the Great One, Laura Ingram and others have done a lot to counteract the pervasive liberalism of the mainstream media.
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Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"Fox News is the only network that comes close to objectivity."<br /><br />"Jim,<br />If that comment was not meant to be facetious, I can never take any of your political comments seriously again. That is the most ludicrous comment I think I have heard on this board. Even neo-cons will admit that Fox is not objective. Be serious!<br />JimB"<br /><br />Thank you JimB. No matter what your political affiliation this has to be the most ridiculous statement ever uttered on Net54.
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Another member of the radical left is heard from--you must be auditioning for a job on MSNBC or CNN?
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Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>Dan,<br /><br />"...Obama has said that the tax increase on the wealthiest Americans may have to be put off until the ship is righted."<br /><br />That helps little. Economic decisions about what risk to take and capital to invest are based on projections of future after-tax income streams. So if a person sees a tax increase as imminent within the next few years, that will depress economic activity NOW.<br /><br />Scott/Jim,<br /><br />I believe you're quite correct that the market is anticipating an Obama victory and reacting accordingly. I remember vividly in the summer of 1980 when the market began its bull run the pundits commenting that it was anticipating a Reagan victory.<br><br>
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Posted By: <b>LetsGoBucs</b><p>Question for Obama Supporters<br />Does the association with Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers Bother you and how do you get past it?<br />--------------<br /><br />Well, I'm not 100% sure I'm voting for Obama. But the Bill Ayers association seems to me to be very flimsy. Any politician attends all kinds of meetings (goes with the territory). There is no indication of any association outside those meetings save one event hosted by Ayers. Should Obama not have allowed it? Yes. But everyone makes mistakes.<br /><br />Rev Wright to me isn't an issue. As someone else pointed out, he grew up in a very different time in this country. I don't agree with his preachings, but I very much believe religion to be a private matter and I don't believe that you can take sermons and ascribe them to those that worship.<br /><br />I think I'm voting for Obama because: 1. We need a change in direction. 2. He has a chance to be an excellent president. 3. Clinton tried to socialize health care and failed and then moved to the center - I hope a similar type thing happens with Obama. I think that he actually doesn't have too many real beliefs - just an agenda to become president. I'm not voting for McCain because I think it will be more of the last 4 years with nothing getting done and spending continuing out of control. Have to go with the potential upside.<br /><br />In regards to Palin. Why call her a lightweight or a right wing crazy? She seems to be an intelligent person to me. She has definate beliefs (wouldn't it be nice if more of our politicians had principles?). I have no problem with people attacking her experience or her record, but why does it have to get personally negative. Lets keep in mind that we've had some reasonably successful presidents that weren't Phd's - Truman, Roosevelt, Reagan, Jackson....and personally I'd like a president that would use common sense, respect and principles to govern. Even if they don't agree with me on all issues.
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>It's easy to be dismissive of Fox News due to the years of it being the only obvious partisan network and also the only one that anyone watched. Therefore you often get the typical knee-jerk, uninformed liberal responses about Fox that you see here. While Fox certainly leans hard right -- and when they do I cringe as it's almost unwatchable -- it is true that MSNBC is way worse to the left. CNN, which used to be a down the middle network has also really moved left over the past few years. Recently a study was done on the political affiliation of the viewership of the three networks and the following came out: <br /><br />CNN: 51% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 23% independents<br /><br />MSNBC: 45% Democrats, 18% Republicans, 27% independents<br /><br />Fox News: 33% Democrats, 39% Republicans, 22% independents<br /><br />As you can see, the only network that is even remotely watched in equal numbers by Dems and Republicans is Fox. And I think the programming is reflective of that, though I agree that Fox is hardly "fair and balanced" most of the time; it's just more fair more of the time than CNN and obviously MSNBC. <br /><br />All that being said, watching Rudy on Fox after the VP debate crowing how Palin "destroyed" Biden was pitiful. Same with Hannity and Dick Morris claiming she was the 'greatest communicator' since Reagan. These partisan lies to the viewing public were really outrageous because the one thing we as a country should be able to rely upon is that when you turn on the damn news you get it straight and unfiltered. I appreciate that H & C is not a news show per se but we at least deserve that when the talking heads speak they at least believe what they are saying. And that clearly was not the case at least on that night. And I also understand the networks have to make money but it is a shame that there is no place we can go to get the straight poop on the news and that includes CNN which is truly nearly as bad as MSNBC these days.<br />
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The Death of Direct Sales
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Corey,<br /><br />That someone could actually not believe that the very likely election of Obama and what he is likely to attempt to do shows an incredible naivety and a lack of understanding of the financial markets. Makes one dismiss everything he thinks.
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The Death of Direct Sales
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I think most people like to watch news that reflects their own thinking. I find Keith and Rachel immensely bright and entertaining, even though I know if McCain found a cure for cancer they would still find a dark side to it.<br /><br />I buy into it going in. I don't expect any objectivity.<br /><br />And while NBC is far from middle of the road I like Brian Williams. He is more even keeled than many others.
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Posted By: <b>Ryan Christoff</b><p>The best part about political discussions on the board is how unpredictable they are. Who would have expected comments supporting the rightiest right from Tom B. or Jim C. in this thread? And how could we have known that Barry S. and Jim B. would voice their "liberal" opinions? Who among us wasn't shocked to read Jeff's Obama-bashing? <br /><br />You never know who will say what in these threads. <br /><br />-Ryan<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>butt because he likes Kalamazoo Bats...............<br /><br />Oh yeah, and he thinks like you do..........<br /><br />There's a reason that MSNBC/NBC/GE pulled Keith & Chris Matthews back from further coverage of debates and the election to JUST their own shows. Lack of objectivity..........REPORT the news, don't gleefully try to CREATE the news.<br /><br />I do like Keith Olberman's checks though........they say 'as seen on tv'<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>I know Ryan- this whole thread is much ado about nothing. But people like to vent.
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Posted By: <b>Tom Boblitt</b><p>I'm still not a proponent of right- or left-wing grading companies.......<br /><br />p.s. how come Jim B gets quotes around 'liberal' but the rightiest guys dont?<br /><br />And if you REALLY knew me, you'd know I'm not really the rightiest right. Just right of center. I voted for Clinton both times.<br /><br />p.p.s. I'm not trying to get David's record for amendments in a thread.....
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>"That someone could actually not believe that the very likely election of Obama and what he is likely to attempt to do shows an incredible naivety and a lack of understanding of the financial markets. Makes one dismiss everything he thinks."<br /><br />I have a sneaking suspicion that failing banks, a highly questionable $700 billion bailout, a real estate market in the toilet, and a number of other financial indicators might have something to do with Wall St. apprehensiveness right now. <br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>Pennsylvania Ted</b><p>Two years ago the Dems in Congress told us to vote for them and we would get...."CHANGE" ! ! ! ! !<br /><br />So, many voted for them....and, we got "CHANGE"....change in the form of coins, not $$$$. A year ago the DOW was at 14,000<br /> and gas was less than $2.00.<br /><br />Well, we got "CHANGE" alright with the DEMS controlling their "Do Nothing" Congress.....no wonder we are in this crises now with <br />these idiots (i.e., Barney Frank, Schumer, Dodd, etc.). And, for those of you that don't know....they are all DEMOCRATS.<br /><br /> It's no wonder Congress has the lowest rating ever recorded....8%.<br /><br />Even George Bush has a rating of 25-30%<br /><br />
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The Death of Direct Sales
Posted By: <b>Joann</b><p>The past 8 years have been a disaster, with our folksy and collegial president that's basically as dumb as a stone. Even his inner circle long ago gave up trying to deny that he just isn't the brightest guy out there. He was elected because he could have been the guy on the next barstool, and look where it got us.<br /><br />Tbob is 100% correct with his point above that we should definitely want smart people running the country. Why in God's name would we not value and even insist on that, at least? And yet the Republicans once again proudly run under the anti-intellectual banner, and right there is your VP nomination for Palin.<br /><br />Women should be incensed with how she is being packaged and put out there. We should be hearing endless recitation about skills, knowledge and qualifications. But no - the Republican image machine is basically saying "Look! It's a soccer mom! It's PTA-er! She hunts moose!" That is just horrible, that they would nominate a woman and then emphasize her qualifications in the home and family more than in the professional and political arena. It's insulting.<br /><br />But people seem to want the guy from the next barstool, or the Treasurer from the PTA. We are here - from the H.L. Mencken quote from many years ago:<br /><br />"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."<br /><br />It's okay to want a balance of personality characteritics, with no one trait - even intelligence - dominating all others. But to aggressively pooh-pooh intellect is frightening. What's even more frightening is that people buy it.<br /><br />Joann
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Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>What Joann said!<br />JimB
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Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>We should demand intelligence from our leaders, as well as from our board members.<br /><br />And Joann is really smart. Thanks for that post.
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Posted By: <b>DMcD</b><p>Joann for Vice President !!
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Posted By: <b>boxingcardman</b><p>Some of the other posts here...<br><br>Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc
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Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>Joann, I agree with your sentiment but I think, as I've said above, a lot of the basis for people to think that Palin is dumb is due to the liberal media's bashing of her like no other candidate in recent memory. She's asked which is a Supreme Court decision other than Roe v. Wade that she disagrees with -- and because she can't answer it she's an idiot? (Granted that's one example) I'm not sure how many lawyers could easily come up with an answer while on the spot. Yet Joe Biden talks about FDR going on the television during the Depression and calming the country; except there was no TV then and Hoover was in the White House. And yet there is barely a mention in the mainstream press about this. She is a governor of a state in America and has huge approval ratings in Alaska. It's not like she came out of completely nowhere. Any day you pick up the New York Times you'll find an anti-Palin article on the cover. And I mean just about every single day for the past 5 weeks. It's really appalling that the media believes they should determine who the next president is.<br /><br />Of course, I do think she's unqualified -- but I feel the same way about Obama. It just is somewhat stunning that there has been way more reporting about "Troopergate" than there has been about Obama's connection to Bill Ayers or Tony Rezko.
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