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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JK</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />I dont believe Jim has admitted anything - there is an "if" in there.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>I dont know what is worse. Trying to understand Crandell or running my knuckles over a cheese grader for 30 minutes.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Barry,<br /><br />I think I said I may be wrong. I will of course say so if I am. I will talk to Kevin, Mike and Dave and report back. my sense is that even if all three agree with what I said there will still be those who will criticise the messenger.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>They can't all 3 agree, unless its that they all agree you are wrong.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>May be wrong...fair enough, the jury is still out.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />Whatever they say, I will report in.<br /><br />Jim
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I have found this thread to be eerily similar to a horrific car crash.<br /><br />You just HAVE to look.<br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim;<br /><br />I know you're one of Kevin’s biggest supporters I get it and Kevin seems ok, I still don’t really get what he's trying to achieve with his experiments but at least there are thought provoking.<br /><br />But seriously don’t go into the PR field anytime soon…”Grand Wizard” of card alterations. I would think of a better name for Kevin if you can. That is unless he’s planning on burning slabs in our front yards anytime soon wearing a white hood.LOL<br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Hold tight--I expect to have a statement by Kevin in the next two hours.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>A statement about what?
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>"Ask not what your country can do for you..."
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>"Hold tight--I expect to have a statement by Kevin in the next two hours."<br /><br /><br /><br />Gee Jim...I'm sure everyone is on the edge of their seats. What does that mean? Hold tight? I think most everyone likes Kevin and accepts he has some pretty good knowledge with card alterations, but geez Crandell...you act like he's the second coming of Moses.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>"A statement about what?"<br /><br />About whether spooning and erasing are material alterations?
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Steve Murray</b><p>Don't you mean Jesus?<br /><br />I think Henry would be offended <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p><i>I know you're one of Kevin’s biggest supporters I get it and Kevin seems ok, I still don’t really get what he's trying to achieve with his experiments but at least there are thought provoking.</i><br /><br /><br />Wait....I think I just felt the ground shake. NO, it's not an earthquake. John, are you hitting the cough syrup again or did you bump your head (LOL)? <br /><br /><br />Have to agree with you on the Grand Wizard thing. I am, after all...Jewish. I suspect a photoshop image is soon to follow.<br /><br /><br />Kevin
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Posted By: <b>Dan Bretta</b><p>Anyone caught spooning with their cards on the Net54 will be summarily beaten to death by the Grand Wizard.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Kevin-<br /><br />Can't you just give us your "statement" yourself without it passing through Jim? Just keeps the suspense going if we wait on Jim.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>(ROTFLMAO) I'm contractually obligated to work through my agent. Soon my people will contact your people.<br /><br /><br />Keep in mind: It's not the destination that counts, It’s the journey.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I hope Dave doesn't mind me saying but I asked him the question about what cards does he feel might be more prone to altering.....Basically, it's as all people with common sense have said all along....the higher the grade the more prone they are to have issues we are speaking of. Specifically the 8-9 group would be the most prone.....This is stuff we already knew but since he and I were talking I went ahead and asked him. It's just common sense.......regards
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>It will be a bit longer--please stand by.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim- I'm peeing in my pants...please don't make me wait any longer!
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>I haven't read this whole thread so forgive me if this has already been said. Obviously there is more economic incentive to alter a high grade card than a low grade one. But high grade cards that are now in holders at least have been inspected by a professional grader and given the stamp of approval. So the percentage of graded cards that have been altered is probably low. The percentage of raw cards that have been altered is probably low also, especially in the lower grades. The ones I would be worried about are the ones that appear to be high grade but haven't been holdered yet -- the question is why aren't they in a holder? It is either because they haven't been sent in yet, or because they have been altered, or appear to be so, and have been rejected as such.
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>As usual Jim. 182 posts now in this thread and all of it meaningless.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Jeff Lichtman</b><p>I agree with Eric. It's just common sense. Last relatively expensive card I bought raw was a 56 Mantle in NM condition; when that card came back as trimmed from PSA I learned my lesson.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>There are very few high grade cards sold today that aren't slabbed. There's no reason to leave all that money on the table when a graded card is worth so much more.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Dave,<br /><br />Only you think that way--don't read it.<br /><br />Just read your comments--lighten up--no reason to go through life so angry.<br /><br />This is fun.
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Posted By: <b>Wesley</b><p>Leon, That is great.... but you did not talk the the grand wizard.<br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim;<br /><br />Would this comment from Kevin have anything to do with what he posted on the Full Count board? If so why the secret squirrel routine? Just cut and paste Kevin’s blurb I found it interesting and Kevin may be on to something. <br /><br />"The fact is Mastro has worked on cards in the past and according to Doug, the possibility is still there. Rumors in the seedy underground world of card doctors is that they employed a person (or two) to do the altering before sending them to an accepting grading company. I have even been given their names from some very respected sources, one name is instantly known. Regardless, they are an auction house and have no business touching the card other than selling them."<br /><br />"I don't trust them and would never even think about buying a sportscard from Mastro. If they admit to laying down corners and pressing creases, imagine what they are not telling us. What few non-sport cards I did win was by accident...my low bid to keep playing actually won."<br /><br />"As many know, I have a very extensive Titanic relic collection. In Dec 2006, Mastro had up for auction some very questionable Titanic items. A quick investigation revealed they were consigned by a well known ebay fraudster. I called and told them the items were fake and, as a matter of fact, the survivor who's jewelry piece was being offered was never even on the ship (living or dead). They still sold with full knowledge and without a disclosure. Here is a thread about two auctions...with links."<br /><br />Kevin Saucier<br /><br /><br />Kevin with that said and all due respect sooner or later your going to have to step up your role in this stuff and really give some background on yourself and your motives etc. If you don’t know matter how much interesting stuff you elude too that you have uncovered without names and evidence it’s really nothing more than hearsay and theories? Kevin if your motive in this is to really make a change I’d hate to see all of your hard work get dismissed as just another web guy with conspiracy theories and hearsay, who likes to doctor cards in his spare time.<br /><br />Please don’t get offended by my comment I really have no real issue with you and you have always made attempts to answer my questions no matter how pointed without crying like a baby.LOL <br /><br />I also find your posts on doctoring very interesting as well, but I’m still a little confused where you’re going with this stuff, I may be the only one still but who knows.<br /><br />P.S. What’s your connection with Rob Lifson and the tag quote on your posts on Full Count, acn you elaborate on this. Having a spooner with Mastro raises enough eyebrows, but a guy with your talents being tight with Rob also makes me scratch my head and think some unsavory thoughts.LOL I hope you can understand and perhaps clarify?<br /><br /><br />**Edited to add Kevin's story, as I found it very intresting to say the least, Kevin I hope you dont mind if so email me and I delete it but I think folks should hear it.**<br />
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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>who know a lot more than anyone who posted in this thread.<br /><br />Jim,why does one need to know the history of a raw card......if you are interested in buying raw cards?<br />You need only to have the confidence to know how to grade/detect issues with them! heck there are tons of dealers who would buy ungraded vintage cards!<br />Do you not think Chad Dreier has not purchased tons of raw cards?<br />I'll be he is quite comfortable doing so without any concern for the past owners.<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Here is the message of the master.<br /><br />Every word is quoted in an e-mail from Kevin to me except what is in the parenthesis which is my editorial comment or explanation on what Kevin is saying.<br /><br />It is much easier to get a lower grade into a mid grade(my exact point) or get a bump(on a low grade) and one can probably do it every time. Like you mentioned, there are more problems that need to be fixed, its easier to cover up and more leverage. Even a good soak can give a card much better eye appeal, enough for a grade bump.<br /><br />I do think that on a percentage basis alone, there are more altered cards in 7 and above holders. Its much more difficult, requires some skill, but is by far more rewarding.<br /><br />My view for prewar alterations<br /><br />2-3 through 6--higher volume<br />7 and above--higher percentage<br /><br />Postwar--a wash.<br /><br />My comment--this all makes sense to me--more lower grade cards have been altered prewar but a higher percentage of higher grade.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Well as you can see Wonka, Kevin's comments did not relate to what he posted on Full Count. Personally I thought it was against the rules on Net 54 to copy posts from Full Count and post them here so I did not.<br /><br />Obviously what Kevin says on Full Count is explosive if true.<br /><br />And make no mistake--Kevin is a true expert on card alteration.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Best. Thread. Ever.<br /><br />-Al
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Cobby33</b><p>Big news.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Yup and it will be interesting what the grading companies say.<br /><br />Stay tuned.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Gene Palmer</b><p>Is it just me or does anyone else think this thread reminds them of the whack-a-mole game?
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>I’m the first to admit, consider "everything" I say as hearsay unless I see it with my own eyes. If I theorize I will state it as a thought or opinion.<br /><br />My relationship with Lifson is an exchange of emails in which he was very complimentary about my contribution to the hobby. It is an honor to be associated with his fine name. The quote is something he said in an email to me when I was disgruntled about collectors who are angry at me for no reason. Also, thank you for bringing it to this board. <br /><br />Contrary to your belief John, I don’t need to step up my role, give a background, answer to you or share my motives. There are no motives, I haven't sold a card in years and the list of those I have helped in one way or another, I’m proud to say, is very long. <br /><br />Can’t a guy just do something good for the sake of doing something good? My guess is no...not in this hobby. It’s polluted by the love of money, which is no knock against the investors. The rewards are having met several fine individuals and some great friends, plus being banned from everywhere except Net54. <br />
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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>just wondering,did you ask Rob if he has ever altered a card?<br />Jim,how about Dave Foreman?<br /><br />have you men asked them this????<br />their replies are?<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>Why is it easier to cover up an alteration to a low grade card than to a high grade card? Other than perhaps soaking, which probably in and of itself is not sufficient to upgrade a card to high grade, why would the typical alteration methods (e.g., trimming, rebuilt corners, added coloring) be more difficult to detect with a vg-ex card than with a nr mt/mt card? I don't understand that. Assuming the grading company is equally diligent looking for such things with low grade cards as they are with high grade cards, why should more things slip through with the low grade cards? <br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>your mind is deferred by all the other imperfections so much more obvious<br />on a low grade card. kind of like the two guys with 22 inch biceps but one has a big beer gut! the guy with the small stomach's biceps are more noticeable even though the same size as the other guy~ <br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>CoreyRS.hanus</b><p>I politely disagree. To an experienced grading company that knows what to look for and is as on guard for low grade cards as they are for high grade cards, the telltale signs of trimming, rebuilt corners, added coloring should be equally discernable regardless of the condition of the card. To use the terminology from your example, they should not be thrown off by the big beer gut.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>"an experienced grading company"<br /><br />there are experienced people in grading but lots of new territory has been brought to the surface in the last ten years these companies were not ready for~<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Todd Schultz</b><p>easy on the beergut comments Brian-- cuts a little too close to home. You may have a six pack, but I've got a 24 pack--4 sets on tops of each other....oh wait, is it supposed to be muscle? Never mind.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Chris</b><p><<My view for prewar alterations<br /><br />2-3 through 6--higher volume<br />7 and above--higher percentage<br /><br />Postwar--a wash.>><br /><br />I don't understand the last part of this statement. With the exception of a few cards per set, I can't see much incentive to alter lower grade postwar cards, but I think it would make more sense to trim modern cards than to restore pre-war cards. The margin for 10's on key rookies or even pre-1980 star cards is still very strong, the cuts are easier to duplicate, most cards wouldn't require much work, and dealers can just relist their rejects raw and recoup their initial investment (or just keep resubmitting). The risk with pre-war cards, especially high grade cards, is much higher because most people assume that a high grade pre-war card is a scam and older cards have more character, meaning they're more likely to be recognized in the grading room if they were previously rejected. Even the most meticulous grader isn't going to recognize an 89 UD Griffey that he rejected a month prior.<br /><br />I don't claim to know who's doing what and to what degree, but if I were a card doctor I'd focus on post-1972 cards for those reasons.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Kevin,<br /><br />That was an absolutely great statement. <br /><br />All for the good of the hobby, no ulterior motives and Rob loves him and .......he won't listen to Wonka<br /><br />Tou are reaching God-like status.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Dave F</b><p>Jim-<br /><br />I'm throwing up in my mouth a little.<br /><br /><br />Dave
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>I'm riveted. This thread gets better by the SECOND.<br /><br />Can we get Frank Wakefield in this thread to talk about grading, please? It's just not complete without him. THIS THREAD NEEDS FRANK WAKEFIELD. <br /><br />-Al
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Eric Brehm</b><p>God-like or not, thanks to Kevin (and Jim) for working on the problem. I hope your efforts bear fruit in some way.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p>I'm waiting for the applesauce dude.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Al--please stay off--we know how you feel.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Rhett Yeakley</b><p>Kevin, I am not trying to attack you or onything like that but how long exactly have you been involved in pre-war baseball cards? How much experience do you have, and when did you start running your "experiments" on pre-war cards? If we are supposed to hold you up as some sort of gold standard we need more background info.<br /><br />Interesting that Jim will quote Kevin like what he says can be found in the book of Genesis, but collectors like myself, Barry, Corey, Leon, etc, etc. are told by Jim that he must consult with those with "experience" before he will concede.<br />-Rhett
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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Jim;<br /><br />Honestly why do you assume everyone is a nobody but you, the level of arrogance you display is really telling sometimes.<br /> <br />Jim, if you read above I actually say nothing negative about Kevin, I only ask questions which I honestly think are valid. I even compliment the guy on his alteration thread. Yet you both get so defensive which is so odd to me. By the way we’ve seen this movie now like 20 times. <br /><br />Here’s the plot for those of you who don’t have net 54 Tivo…every couple of months Jim you get on here and fire off shots across the bows of folks. Then you ask the same question over and over that has already been answered. Then folks fire back and you cry and throw a fit like a girl on MTV’s “My Sweet Sixteen”. Then you get all serious and drag Kevin into this acting like some drugged up PR person saying stuff which makes all of us cringe most likely including Kevin. You then proceed to make outlandish claims with little or no evidence short of I heard this from a guy etc. Then Kevin chimes in which generally raises questions because lets face it what Kevin generally chimes in on is controversial to say the least. Then questions are re-directed to Kevin he gets defensive, and you come to his rescue once again making everyone and anyone who doesn’t agree with your view of Kevin out to be a total idiot. Then it all dies we give up and next month its freaking ground hog day again and here’s Jim.<br /><br />Anyone hear think my comments above to Kevin where out of line?<br /><br />Also for a guy who says he hates attacks, you basically say above that Rob Lifson wouldn’t take my questions seriously implying that I’m a hobby nobody if you will. That really says a lot about you Jim, and it also must say that you and Rob are pretty tight; for you to speak for him on record if he would listen to me or not. <br /><br />Besides why would he listen to me I’m just a customer perhaps REA doesn’t need my bids, he can just make it up with you Jim.<br /><br />John<br /><br />P.S. Jim if your out to clean this hobby up you may not to alienate and insult ohhhh I don’t….other COLLECTORS! God man hate to see you run for office…I can hear you now oh I don’t these peoples vote.<br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Al C.risafulli</b><p>Jim, I can't help it. I want to talk about serious issues, and this is the place to be.<br /><br />-Al
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Wonka,<br /><br />You're a lunatic--all I said is I'm glad Kevin doesn't feel he has to answer to you and apparently he feels the same way too. Have no idea what you mean about REA--I don't speak for him. I know he admires Kevin though.<br /><br />If you have something positive to add please do--if not please go away. We know you don't like me --you say it again and again and again.<br /><br />Relax.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Al--you do have a good point--carry on<br /><br />Funny I have one thread and many formerly claimed that either I had multiple threads or I messed up a perfectly good thread yet they can't stay away from this one. Guys you don't like it, ignore it --its easy.<br /><br />This is for guys like Al who want to talk about serious issues.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"All for the good of the hobby, no ulterior motives and Rob loves him and .......he won't listen to Wonka"<br /><br />Ever heard of interpretation of the written word…what you wrote above can read many ways, however calling me a lunatic well that’s pretty cut and dry.<br /><br />You know Jim, a nice way to say that would be to say you read me wrong etc…<br /><br />Take care,<br /><br />John<br />
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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>He meaning Kevin. How can I be nice when you carry on like you do--chill!!
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>"How can I be nice when you carry on like you do--chill!!"<br /><br />Great advice Jim, perhaps you can take a lesson from your own words?<br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>hate to break this video out on you guys...<br /><br />but if you watch the whole thing from start to finish, i guarentee it will help to put all of this dumb drama into perspective.<br /><br />enjoy.<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=ithct48cqw" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=ithct48cqw</a><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>Steve</b><p>This thread gave me a headache.<br /><br /><br />Steve
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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>hey Kevin....<br />February 28 2008, 8:41 PM <br /><br />just wondering,did you ask Rob if he has ever altered a card?<br />Jim,how about Dave Foreman?<br /><br />have you men asked them this????<br />their replies are?<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Kevin Saucier</b><p><i>just wondering,did you ask Rob if he has ever altered a card?</i><br /><br /><br />Of course not.<br /><br /><br />Doubt I've ever asked anyone that...usually they tell me first. <br />
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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>Jim would be expecting you to find out and disclose!<br />Considering Jim's directness in asking Doug Allen such things why not ask Rob????<br /><br />And Jim! you want to clear the air so you best ask Dave and post the response here please????<br /><br />has Dave altered cards????<br /><br />has Rob Lifson altered cards???<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>Harry Wallace (HW)</b><p>Brian: Do you really expect an honest response from anyone? With the grief that Doug Allen has been given, you will never have another dealer or auction house admit to ever have doing anything.<br /><br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>jaxxr</b><p>Interesting and entertaining thread.<br /><br />Kind of wonder why all the fuss over which grade of card gets more "alterations" ANY grade/level card MAY be altered.<br /><br />There's likely more lower/mid grade older cards out there, so PROBABLY there could be more altered.<br />The money is greater for altered higher end cards, so PROBABLY more time and effort for altering them.<br /><br />So what ? Who cares which level or grade is more likely to be "fixed" ?<br />There is certainly no extreme likelyhood for any one particular grade.<br />Why any big concern whether Jim's opinion is perfectly correct or not ?<br /><br />As mentioned prior by Paul, most graded cards are fine, however, we all know there are exceptions, and a few MAY be altered. We should be aware of that potential, and regardless of the card being a 4 or an 8, we should try our best to get original items from reputable people.<br /><br />
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Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>The point was Jim tauts people he knows nothing about!<br />The point is Jim has no problem asking personal question of people he does not like about card doctoring but won't even ask those he thinks/feels are/have been honest with him.<br />He wants to expose who is who and who does/did what and yet is biased in who he will consult/expose.<br /><br />The point is....Jim,all 117 pounds of him,should put some of his suspicion to good use and ask his pals the same questions he asks Doug.<br /><br />Here's one for ole Jim- I know Doug Jim,Have known him for over 14 years. I stayed at his home for about 10 days while my brand new truck was being repaired as a result of an accident I had with a taxi driver in front of the Sears tower in 1995! I will tell you guys Doug would never personally alter,cut,air brush,dye,slice,dice,trim or otherwise a baseball card! Now tell me Jim,Kevin.....would Rob or Dave have ever done such a thing??? Did you guys ask them??? Do you guys have the unbiased to ask them the same things you want Rick Kohl to respond to??? Come on Jim,Ask Dave and ask Rob and tell us what they say about themselves??? And Jim,you call Wonka a lunatic!( he weighs 230 or so....you 117*-that's funny Jim <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ) In your opinion(if your too whinish to ask them), do you think Dave Foreman has ever altered a card Jim?? Do you think any of those cards are in your collection if so Jim?? Come on Jim ask all your pals about their habits not just pound on Doug! It gets old Jim and has no bearing on your so called desire to clean up th hobby when you won't even face reality.You might be better off getting a personal trainer and put some time into your work out so your body is at least 1/10th the size of your big mouth Jim! You are....and get old!<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>117 pounds?<br /><br />guess you haven't met Jim before.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Jim's a little bigger than 117, but Wonka is most definitely a bruiser!
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>MVSNYC</b><p>Barry- John used to be an ultimate fighter in the late '90's...he certainly is a bruiser...<br /><br />you have to meet his identical twin brother, Maximillion...they were seperated at birth in Scotland...<br /><br />he's a riot!<br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Two Wonkas is a little more than I can handle <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>my statement was based on that Geeky photo he passed around the internet of him about ten/15 years ago!<br />What? Does he look like Dorskin now?<br /><br />BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br /><br />Ultimate Wonka looks like this~<br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.mguerrilla.com/photos/uncategorized/garfield_1.gif"><br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>JimB</b><p>Rob Lifson posted scans of a 1933 Goudey Lajoie a year or so ago that was mid-grade and altered that someone tried to consign to his auction. While I disagree with most of what Jim Crandall says, I think there is some validity to the notion that card-doctors attempt to move cards from a grade of 3 to a 5 as much as they do from a 6 to an 8. I would imagine the grading companies may be a bit more lax in looking for alterations on a mid-grade card than a potentially nm/mt Cobb. Generally I think that the number of altered cards that slip through either PSA or SGC is extremely small (My guess would be less than 1%), but the notion that there are more attempts to do that at the PSA 8/9 level as opposed to the 3-6 level is naive. Cards that are that sharp set off immediate warning signs, whereas people tend to presume the mid-grade cards are probably fine. If it were so easy to get high-grade cards through, they would not be such condition rarities and demand the premiums they do for those who like them.<br />JimB
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>He's north of 117! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>potatoes,carrots,white rice and bananas and macaroons kick in?<br /><br />does he need to "TRIM" down?<br />arrrr arrr arrr<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>Well, I don't want to get too personal here! <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>BcD</b><p>is Jim really Peter Chao?<br><br>BcD <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“so your body is at least 1/10th the size of your big mouth Jim!” LOL BCD<br /><br />Nah the guy you have to watch out for is Sloate it’s those wirey Brooklyn kids who grew up playing stickball that can really mess you up!<br /><br />Mike my twin brother says hi, LOL.<br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Anonymous</b><p>Is it really a surprise that there are cards that have been altered and are being altered?<br /><br />I've been collecting since the 1970's. I was a weekend warrior for about 10 years and was fortunate enough to own or see many incredible cards. My pre-war collection (at least 95% of it) paid for graduate school back when you could buy a t206 EX Cobb for a couple of hundred dollars and caramels were throw-ins) I no longer really am anything other than a very casual collector, there are other things that take up my time and money in life nowadays.<br /><br />Artwork is not only altered, its outright often counterfeited. Heck a German museum about a week ago found out a 35 MILLION $ painting was a forgery. The Hermitage has a Rembrant that was attacked with a knife and acid - it took about 8 years to restore. If a Rembrant can be restored after acid then baseball cards can be made to look NM. <br /><br />Personally I liked it when pre 1948 baseball cards were much less popular (and cheaper), but the times have changed and one of the drivers of that change is grading. And lets be straight here - the truth is that there are good graders and bad graders - there is no certification to obtain and its subjective. All of which lends itself to the temptation of altering the cards. Hate to break it to those that collect only high grade but I can tell you that when PSA first started, there were people going around and buying oversided cards of all types (not just pre-war). And they weren't buying them because they had an "oversized" card collection or were studying printing techniques of the early 20 century. <br /><br />And even before that there were dealers who would openly speak about a card being able to be "made" NM - I can specifically remember a dealer discussing some E92's that I had that had generous borders - they were all about EX with no creases - he was telling me I was crazy for selling them for $10 each when I could "make" them NM and get maybe 20-30. I tried to get him to buy the cards but he wouldn't as "no one wants candy cards..." And over the last several years I can say that I've seen many caramel cards in auctions that are fairly high grades that I believe (not 100% but certainly more than a passing thought) I've seen or handled before and they weren't quite as nice as they are now.<br /><br />Just as artwork has been altered through the years so have a decent amount of cards and the number will increase. So if you can live with that then buy the high grade pre-war cards, if not buy the books as its much cheaper <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />And yes I would also add that mid grade cards get altered. I'll never forget a 1933 Goudey Ruth that I bought as part of a collection, looked vg with no creases...but after looking at it several times realized that the right border had been trimmed...and after measuring and further inspection proved myself correct <img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I collected (and occasionally still look/read) because it was enjoyable....I find it hard to think that this thread and the subject in general is really enjoyable.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>barrysloate</b><p>John- I can fit comfortably into the left sleeve of your sports jacket.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>LetsGoBucs</b><p>As a sidenote.<br /><br />I would encourage anyone, especially those that collect to make a visit to St. Petersburg and visit the Hermitage museum. Its really unbelievable and I don't even like art. They have an entire room of Rembrants, entire room of Reubens, statues by Michaelangelo (sure mispelled), Da Vinci's, Van Gogh's on and on and they have tons and tons of it!!<br /><br />The one negative is the way the stuff is not really protected from the environment - lots of very valuable paintings with no enclosures and sitting next to windows (not exagerating). All kinds of sculptures from BC's and early AD's. And the building itself has some simply incredible rooms as it was originally built as a palace.<br /><br />No early Russian baseball cards that I saw but well worth the trip once in your lifetime.
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Jim Crandell's personal thread
Posted By: <b>Marty Kohler</b><p>"BUCS" .....That my friend is one of the most intelligent and accurate posts that I`ve read on this board,...Right on!! Well said!!<br><br>GO YARD
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