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07-09-2007 06:12 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: jay behrensFor those that don't know the full history between Leon and myself, there has been bad blood, but we've agreed to disagree on some issues. When I see something I think is wrong, I will bring it up. I've never been one to bite my tongue. I think for the most part we don't truly dislike each other, we just have a few disffering viewpoints that we both feel dtrongly about. I have no reason to dislike Leon as person. I really don't know him well enough to make that decision, but I do like him enough to go up to him at the National, shake his hand and talk with him. I've talked with him before and I hope to again. Talking with passionate collectors is always great. Hell, when I first came to the board, I went toe to toe with Mike Wentz and earned the nickname Dunderhead <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> At the last National in Chicago, who do you think I ended spending most of my time talking to? It was MW. Just because people have heated disagreements here doesn't mean we can't get along in person. The board is the board, the world outside this board is another thing. Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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07-09-2007 06:22 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Hal LewisI recently consigned items to Mastro in their internet auctions, and I can assure you that I was not allowed to bid on them. As someone pointed out, a few of them were VERY LOW and I would have been better off to buy them back myself if I could have. I was almost crying when my three rare 1947 Tip Top rookie cards went for like $125 or something terrible. I guess some of you are right in that I could have had some other board member bid on the cards for me, but short of utilizing lie detectors, I think that could happen at ANY auction. I see the point about "Top All" bids, and I agree 100% that an auction house should be SHUT DOWN if they are "peeking" at the max bids and then driving them all the way up themselves... but it sounds like the claim is that the SELLERS are doing this, not the auction house. I did win something for far less than my "Max Bid" in the last Mastro auction, so I don't think they're doing it. But I guess actually I was just lucky that the consignor of that item was too honest to have one of his friends driving the price up for him.

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07-09-2007 06:28 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: barrysloateI really see no realistic way for an auction house to prevent a consignor from asking a friend to bid for him. There is simply no way that I, or anyone else, can make the determination that bidder so-and-so was not bidding on lots he wanted, but was just helping out a friend. In a perfect world everyone would be honest, but the world isn't perfect.

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07-09-2007 06:29 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Joe D.and he does a tremendous service by keeping this place from slipping into chaos. A thank you to Leon.

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07-09-2007 06:38 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Bobby BinderI am a paid advertiser on the site in the B/S/T section and to date Leon has not come to my defense. And I have gotten into more then one altercation on this board. He stripped me of my Avatar because it has my company logo. I think Leon is doing this because the Mastro people in general are a good bunch and not because he is getting paid a few dollars. I am sure that if he dropped them as an advertiser he could fill the spot in minutes.

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07-09-2007 07:16 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: davidcyclebackI assume Leon was offering his opinion, as all posters do.

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07-09-2007 07:24 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonyou edited your statement....It didn't sound quite right <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>....

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07-10-2007 07:19 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: MikeThere is one person who can answer these questions and more. Robert Lifson. Why did they separate?

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07-10-2007 08:09 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellMike, Exactly. Leon--given your defense of Mastronet, how do you interpret Rob Lifson's letter and subsequent comments about Mastronet? Jim

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07-10-2007 08:35 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonI am not aware of any letter that Rob has written concerning Mastronet except for the one time there was a major shipping issue with some return addresses. He had no choice in that case. Please show me the letter so I can make an appropriate comment. It's my firm understanding that Rob would never write about another company, Mastro Auctions included. thanks much...

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07-10-2007 08:48 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimmyThis info is disturbing, but I think it was mentioned earlier this year. Any auction house or even eBay should restrict bids by the consignor period. I have a small group of auctions every week on eBay and none of my consignors would ever bid - I can also block them from bidding if needed. When dealing with the FBI and the IRS definetly a serious matter and I just hope it does not get out of hand and things get worked out. I am sure, there is just two parties involved at this point Mastro's and the person that informed the FBI, I only hope. Jimmy below is from the <a href="http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/" target="_new" rel="nofollow">http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com/</a> The New York Daily News reported in its Sunday edition that the FBI has initiated an investigation of Chicago-based Mastro Auctions, considered the largest sports memorabilia auction house in the hobby. There was no confirmation from the Bureau, but Daily News reporter Michael O'Keeffe reported that Bill Brandt, President of a company hired by the state of Ohio to liquidate collectibles bought with stolen state funds by convicted felon Tom Noe, had deferred some of their activities to the FBI's own investigation. Noe's holdings reportedly included items purchased from Mastro Auctions. O'Keeffe also quoted a dealer as saying he had been interviewed within "the last ten days". Another person in the hobby also said he had been contacted by the FBI but would not comment further.

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07-10-2007 09:29 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, This is a well known letter that was discussed on this board--I will try to find when I get the time. Jim

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07-10-2007 09:46 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonJim- find the letter and lets take a look. I am quite sure of my last response. Maybe Rob stated "other" auction houses, or something to that effect....but I will believe he mentioned Mastro when I see it (except for the one shipping debacle which has been stated previously).... Jimmy boxing card guy- Okeefe has it out for Mastro, plain and simple. Okeefe is continuing to talk about a yr old investigation and now throws in some more hearsay...I am NOT saying the investigation is not relevent. It is....It has been going on for a yr though. Please show me something from someone other than the person who has it out for Mastro. I would say that if nothing has come to light in a yr in must not be too strong of a case/allegation. And for the record....I absolutely understand there is a perceived conflict of interest in my taking up for Mastro. There is by virtue of them being an advertiser. At the same time why is it no one says anything about Okeefe? He obviously doesn't like Mastro....anyone ever consider the author of all of this stuff? If Mastro made illegal mistakes I am sure it will come out in the press. Until then it's an ongoing investigation with no teeth to date.....best regards

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07-10-2007 09:49 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanI've heard the FBI has it out for Mastro too. And Atty Genl Gonzalez. And Bush, too. Hugo Chavez also. O'Keefe is just their mouthpiece.

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07-10-2007 09:52 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: shane leonardI placed a bid on my own item one year ago when it opened up just to see if it would allow me to. I had heard that people can bid on their own item and wanted to prove that theory. It kicked it back that I was unable to bid on my own item. Do you realize that in other auction houses (cars and antiques) that a consignor can bid on his own item? If they win, they pay both sides of it. This is really not that big of a deal. I will bid on the items that I want, with who I want and when I want. If I feel the cost of the item is not worth it, I bow out. Some of you sure like to bitch and complain about a lot of stuff out there. Times must be really bad for you guys to have to complain so much.

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07-10-2007 09:53 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, Don't think there was any doubt he was referring to Mastronet although he did not mention it by name. Jim

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07-10-2007 10:01 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Joe D.but this is back peddling at its best, no? Jim: "Leon--given your defense of Mastronet, how do you interpret Rob Lifson's letter and subsequent comments about Mastronet?" Leon: "I am not aware of any letter that Rob has written concerning Mastronet except for the one time there was a major shipping issue with some return addresses. He had no choice in that case. Please show me the letter so I can make an appropriate comment." Jim: "This is a well known letter that was discussed on this board--I will try to find when I get the time." Leon: "find the letter and lets take a look." Jim: "Don't think there was any doubt he was referring to Mastronet although he did not mention it by name." Didn't mention them by name?!? If Jeff L. (or anyone) was defending Mastronet in a court of law... I think that exchange would have been a homerun.

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07-10-2007 10:26 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, Rob Lifson in an open letter-- "Some of the most sophisticated work on cards has been executed by employees of auction houses that deal in cards." Doug Allen's reply-- "the only auction house that I know of that has employees that handle significant volumes of raw cards for grading is Mastro Auctions and I can tell you we don't do sophisticated work on cards".

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07-10-2007 10:35 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Rob DewolfThis is really not that big of a deal. I will bid on the items that I want, with who I want and when I want. If I feel the cost of the item is not worth it, I bow out. Some of you sure like to bitch and complain about a lot of stuff out there. Times must be really bad for you guys to have to complain so much. Let's think through the above statement. You place a bid of $1,000 on an item because that's what you think it's worth and what you are willing to pay. There is only one other legitimate bidder, who bids $200. By all rights you should win the item for $220 (or whatever bidding increment the auction house uses). Instead, a shill bidder places a bid of $800. You've now won the item for $880, still below what you think it's worth, but far beyond what you rightfully should have to pay, if only "legitimate" bids had been used. And "this is really not that big of a deal"? I'm not saying that policing such actions is easy to do or even that Mastro is guilty of doing anything improper, but please don't suggest that illegal bidding isn't a big deal just because you set a maximum bid for yourself and are disciplined enough to stick to it.

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07-10-2007 10:41 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanRob, times must be tough for you too to complain about the possibility of getting ripped off due to shill bidding. Perhaps you'd like to join me and Jim Crandell at the unemployment office today wherein we can ponder our fates.

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07-10-2007 10:45 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Hal LewisHey, I know a good book you guys can read while you stand in line, stuck in the bureaucratic morass. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-10-2007 10:49 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: shaneRob, You are right. I don't want to be run up and I want to get the item for as cheap as I can. Sometimes you have to overpay for a card you need. If you collect 1964 Topps, you can't understand where I am coming from on this issue. If you collect the rare, prewar cards- sometimes you got to do what you got to do to win it. I have never felt like I have been run up by Mastro and they have had plenty of times they could have taken advantage of me.

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07-10-2007 10:51 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: shaneJeff, It must be nice to always be right. You are the most intelligent person I know. Shane

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07-10-2007 10:51 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Rob DewolfJeff, Silly me. I didn't realize that the state of the country's economy -- or my economy, for that matter -- had any bearing on whether illegal practices by auction houses are worthy of my concern. Hal, I already bought one. I'm waiting to go stand in line until after it arrives.

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07-10-2007 10:55 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellI have bought a fair amouunt of stuff from Mastro over the years and never really thought I was being run up. Now there is another auction house that I stopped buying from where I definately had that feeling not only because I would win their stuff at the maximum all the time but because the prices they would get were staggering.

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07-10-2007 10:55 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimmyLeon, Thanks for the feedback - we will have to wait and see, the hobby just seems to be getting too big fast. I am sure that the investigation would be significant if more articles and evidence did turn up. In a few years, the hobby will turn into an industry not a business, maybe it already has? I think that is way all the attention Jimmy

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07-10-2007 10:56 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Rob DewolfI could collect only the rarest of pre-war cards in existence and still not understand where you're coming from. Somehow you've equated overpaying for a card -- which I've done many times and have no problem with as long as it's my choice -- with being forced to pay more than you should because of illegal bids. Those two aren't one in the same. Not even close.

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07-10-2007 11:20 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: CatI trust Mastro more than I trust our Federal government!!!

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07-10-2007 11:26 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanShane, thanks for the compliment. I always love compliments when they come from smart people like you.

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07-10-2007 11:37 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonYou said: "Perhaps you'd like to join me and Jim Crandell at the unemployment office today wherein we can ponder our fates." If it comes to that maybe we can get you a discounted rate with Mastro to consign your cards to? I am sure you could live for at least a few days on the proceeds. Otherwise, I know some restaurants you could buy cheaply? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> Seriously, if Mastro, or any auction house, is caught doing anything illegal they should be punished. End of story. Mastro, or any auction house, should also be innocent until proven guilty. You and a lot of the board prefer them to be guilty until proven innocent. You say you think they are greedy. I would argue it's the nature of "for profit" business and capitalism to be greedy. I like how they are so greedy they are charging to their live auction and donating the proceeds to charity. Personally, I think this reprinted old article was Okeefe printing something else to sell more books. Maybe in another year he will dole out some more hearsay and start all over again? Maybe it won't take that long?

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07-10-2007 11:44 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, I think they are innocent until proven guilty. My beef with Mastronet is that Doug comes on the board and postures and refuses to answer questions--generally in regards to his past admissions that Mastronet took creases out of cards. To the extent you are his buddy, maybe you can urge him to be truthful and forthcoming in describing the company's business practices. Jim

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07-10-2007 12:03 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonI do consider Doug a friend but it's not like we are best buds. I speak with him every now and then as I do a lot of folks. I am not sure why you continue to embellish things either? If I remember correctly I think Doug had said they would potentially take out a surface wrinkle. There is a difference in most collectors opinions of a wrinkle vs a crease. To me a wrinkle only goes through one side whereas a crease goes through both. It's sort of semantics but sort of not when we talk about the potential for a crease or wrinkle to come back after it's been taken out. Also I think we spoke about the integrity of the card stock from a crease vs a wrinkle. I used to be ok with taking a wrinkle out ( I HAVE NEVER DONE THAT OR ASKED ANYONE TO DO THAT FOR ME)....but have since changed my view. I feel wrinkles and creases should be left alone. I still don't have a problem with any other first tier (as Dave Forman so eloquently put it) restoration. All he said is that if it can't be detected it can't be detected so please don't go and say that I said Dave said it was ok to alter cards. He didn't. I have soaked cards in water to get dirt and paper remnants off, pushed down a corner if it pops up, and erased marks on cards. If the erased mark leaves an indentation I always note it. If it doesn't then I don't say anything. I just had an auction end with a MK qualifier (PSA 4 MK) due to indentions from an erasure. The card was encapsulated when I bought it. I made note of it in the auction description even though I didn't have to. I have a feeling anything Doug says on this board will be misconstrued .....not sure why I feel that way but I do. I would not throw a friend into harms way like that....If he wants to come on and say anything he is welcome to...but I won't be asking him to....regards

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07-10-2007 12:08 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim Crandelland Leon--will you comment on Rob's quote?

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07-10-2007 12:19 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonI doubt it but you never showed me what you were talking about? Show me and I will let you know. If it's something Rob was saying in general then why would I think it's only aimed at Mastro and why would I comment about it? You are phishing.....and I am not biting....but first you need to at least put bait on the hook....show me.....

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07-10-2007 12:21 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim Crandell"I feel wrinkles and creases should be left alone"--Leon Lucky(7/9/07)wow! Mark the date. Here is Doug's exact quote-- "I have no problem with taking out light creases or surface wrinkles that do not break the surface" As I previously stated I have a 48 Leaf Joe D with a very light surface wrinkle that is a PSA 4-- Last I remember from Doug he said he would report back to us after consulting with SGC and PSA--no report as far as I can remember but he seems to have chenged his tune about taking out light creases as Mastro Auctions "prepares" cards for grading. With two hobby giants--Leon Lucky and Doug Allen seemingly opposing taking wrinkles out of the cards we can only guess what may be next for the hobby Leon--I am trying to be somewhat funny here--I would put up a smiley face if I knew how. Regards, Jim

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07-10-2007 12:23 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, I gave you the exact quotes--I don't know how to put the thread up but it was from the November 2006 thread where Doug admitted taking light creases out of cards. Jim

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07-10-2007 12:30 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonWhat Doug said there really is semantics.....I will let him answer if he wants to.....At the time I didn't think much of a surface wrinkle being taken out but it is such a slippery slope that I changed my view. I hope I am allowed to do that after I consider something and give it more thought. As for hobby Giants...I think Doug might be though he probably would be too modest to say it....and the only thing giant about me is my stomach and ego <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.....best regards <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-10-2007 12:39 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellLeon, You are allowed. You are also allowed to take credit for being a trendsetter as the rest of the hobby comes over to your position. Will await your response on Rob. Jim

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07-10-2007 02:15 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Rich Klein: followed by ) give you the <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> ; followed by ) gives you a wink <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> It's pretty easy Regards Rich

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07-10-2007 02:21 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellI get that part--just don't know how to do the little yellow faces that Leon and you put into your posts.

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07-10-2007 02:24 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: barrysloateWhen you type a colon and then a parenthesis, it turns into a smiley face when you hit "respond." Try it!

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07-10-2007 02:26 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: ErlandStevensYou must also leave the "enable formatted text" box checked. If it's unchecked, a <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> will just look like a couple punctuation marks.

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07-10-2007 02:28 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: barrysloateI never knew that, but I just looked at my box and it is checked. Don't ever remember doing that. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-10-2007 02:33 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: ErlandStevensAnother weird thing... If you uncheck "enable formatted text", the : ) will still show a :) in the preview. Hit respond and you just get : ).

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07-10-2007 02:35 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: ErlandStevensThat last post made no sense b/c the box was unchecked. The point was that checked or not, you will get the smiley face in the preview.

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07-10-2007 03:00 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: BobI think I now have Excedrin headache #206 from reading 120 posts on the Mastro situation. Rather than rehashing, I have 3 things to say: 1) I think Doug Allen is a really nice guy but to think he would come here and "tell all" is ludicrous. His attorney would cuff him (literally) on the back of the head. The FBI certainly doesn't need the help of any comments he might make on the Net54 Board, however innocuous, in making its case against Mastro, if Mastro is in fact being investigated. 2) No one likes shilling and if in fact (big IF) Mastro was involved in that, then katy bar the door they should be put out of business for its practice. This all remains to be proven and we shouldn't jump the gun. 3) Anne Coulter is trash. Pure, unadulterated white trash. She could easily be pictured in a long black trench coat, blonde hair tightly pulled back, and a swastika on her arm in 1936 Berlin. There are conservative commentators and political observers who I might not agree with but respect and who are decent, intelligent people. Coulter is not one of them. Her comments about John Edwards' deceased son shocked even the most conservative of my friends and revealed the guttersnipe for what she truly is- white trash wrapped up in a sleek package.

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07-10-2007 03:17 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: jay behrensImagine if the name Mastro was removed from the discussion and replaced with some lower level auction house/dealer from eBay. Now imagine the unrelenting hammering they would get for something like this. This board can be very hypocritical at times. Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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07-10-2007 03:50 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: D.C. MarkelIn my many years of collecting, I am aware of several investigations by the FBI pertaining to sports collectibles. Some were legitimate where people were arrested and convicted. However on the complete opposite side of the spectrum, I can recall not too long ago where one FBI investigation was initiated and quickly closed and no arrests were made. In short some despicable eBay dealer filed various trumped-up criminal charges against a collector as a means of retaliation for giving the seller negative feedback on an eBay transaction. So the bottom line is Mastro could be in big trouble or they could just be the unfortunate victim of some disgruntled party. When arrests are made, I will take notice.

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07-10-2007 04:09 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: peter chaoThe old adage is "where there's smoke, there is fire." It's pretty simple, the Feds will indict only if they believe that they can convict. This is quite different than if Mastro is running a shilling operation. It is quite difficult in this situation to get sufficient evidence. There may be shilling going on but the Feds do not believe that they can convict and may never ask for an indictment. For instance, almost everybody believes Barry was using steroids, but so far the Feds have not indicted. They are being held back only by the sufficiency of the evidence and not by whether they believe he took steroids. Peter

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07-10-2007 04:16 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: AnonymousIMO Mastro would make more money and be more respected if they hired someone to validate and remove potentially altered cards instead of altering them.

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07-10-2007 04:27 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanKevin, very succinct and very correct. However, as Leon correctly points out, Mastro is in the business of making money which includes altering cards that they can then sell for more money. Removing cards from their auctions that are altered would cause them to lose money. Bad business model. Peter, my mouth is agape once again. Is there a 'mouth agape' emoticon?

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07-10-2007 04:36 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellPeter, Forget what Jeff tells you--I know who I am hiring if I need a first rate lawyer.<img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>.

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07-10-2007 04:39 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Rob DewolfThis is you being controversial again, right?

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07-10-2007 04:44 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellRob, Don't know--have never said anything to Peter before but he broadsided me a little while ago with the comment about how he was sure I made some contributions to the board but he couldn't think of one. Just want to let him know he is my man when I need legal help.

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07-10-2007 04:47 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: davidcycleback<img src="http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/spotondrums/chrisfarley4.jpg">

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07-10-2007 04:49 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: peter chaoJim, Thank you for your confidence in me. However, I'm not offering brilliant insight here. That's the reason why the Feds have put so much pressure on Greg Anderson to testify. It is also the reason why Greg Anderson doesn't want to testify. Peter

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07-10-2007 04:56 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jim CrandellPeter, My decision to choose you as my attorney of choice is not based on one comment but the cumulative wisdom you have shown since you have been posting. Keep it coming. Jim

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07-10-2007 04:58 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanUm. The delicious irony in Peter's last post is almost too much to resist. So many layers of irony. I...must...refrain...from....commenting (in best William Shatner "Star Trek" era voice).

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07-10-2007 05:03 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jeff LichtmanDavid, I was thinking more along these lines: <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1184022150.JPG"> <img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1184022173.JPG">

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07-10-2007 05:17 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Bruce BabcockIf Barry (Sloate) is indicted for steroid use I'm leaving the hobby.

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07-10-2007 05:34 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: barrysloateI weigh 150 pounds!

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07-10-2007 05:38 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonYou said "Will await your response on Rob." I think that is the 3rd time you have asked me to respond to something and this will be the 3rd time I say "to what?". Show me where Rob said something about Mastro Auctions, and not the shipping debacle which was a printers fault, and I will be more inclined to comment....Not saying I would but I at least would know what the heck you are getting at.....regards

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07-10-2007 07:38 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimCrandellLeon, I gotta tell you--you have a unique way of avoiding the question--I told you what was said earlier. It was the hobby news story of the year when Rob came out with his slam which I quoted that everyone assumed was about Mastronet--Doug even responded that since he was the only house that dealt with raw cards that therwe was vnoone else he could be talking about So avoid the question--fine--I just wanted to give you a chance to defend your buddy. Jim

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07-10-2007 08:05 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Frank EvanovJim, when you state that Peter C. is your choice to be your attorney, you are supposed to add the wink icon! <img src="/images/wink.gif" height=14 width=14> Frank

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07-10-2007 08:35 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimCrandellFrank, You are expecting too much. I just learned how to do the smile icon today--I will master one per week. Do you know much about the Horrors of War set? Jim

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07-10-2007 08:58 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonYa know...I just wrote a blistering paragraph and deleted it. I have nothing left to say to you. We collect and think differently.. Have a good one....

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07-10-2007 09:18 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: jay behrensJeff, it may be a bad business model in respect to Mastro's goals, but it is the stated business model of REA. Rob Lifson has stated he won't accept card or other items he knows to be altered. Given Rob's reputation, I doubt that his business will be hurt at all. Rob is the one true beacon of light in all this mess Jay I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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07-10-2007 09:21 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: AnonymousEvery once in while (OK, more than once in a while), REA likes to communicate about issues that we think deserve attention but for some reason are receiving little or no attention. There are several topics that we would like to bring to the attention of buyers today, in the hopes of educating buyers and maybe saving someone money. 1) Practically every day we are seeing fake items. Fake printed items. Posters that are actually reproductions of vintage posters. Stand-up cardboard counter displays that are not real. Babe Ruth Candy wrappers that are not real. Fans that picture baseball player portraits that are reproductions. Photographs that appear to be old but are not vintage. There is no limit to what can be made with computers, especially with printing equipment available today that is very economical and which years ago did not even exist. These items are being intentionally made to fool people into parting with their money for worthless items. These items are being made to cheat buyers. Many of these items are somehow reproduced from books and auction catalogs, often enlarged from small quality illustrations to their correct original size. With computers these days, it is possible for some criminals to produce very real-looking reproductions and also to produce "fantasy pieces" (defined as those items that are not actually reproductions, as there is no original, but are made to look old to fool buyers). This is a BIG problem. These items are offered to us practically every day, and they are being offered to us by collectors who themselves are victims. Most of the sophisticated fake items of this type that we have seen appear to have one thing in common: They were purchased by sellers in the state of Ohio. It is obvious to us that the individual(s) responsible for most or all of these imaginative quality fakes is located in the state of Ohio, though these items are now circulating throughout the country. It is easy for us to tell in almost all cases whether an item is real or not, often just from a scan. We understand from experience that not everyone can, including the numerous victims who have sent us these recently produced fake items which at a glance appear to be vintage items. If you think that you have purchased a fake item of this type and would like our opinion, we will be happy to be of assistance. Please write and/or send scans. 2) In recent weeks we have received a number of consignments of graded cards that has motivated us to adopt a formal policy regarding altered professionally graded cards that we have not previously seen a need to articulate. The altering of cards is so widespread, and "card doctors" so brazen, that REA has actually been receiving cards submitted for auction to us that are the very same cards that have been sold by REA previously - in some cases just months earlier - and which, since purchase, have been significantly altered, reholdered, and now grade higher according to the grading label. In some cases a given card has changed hands and the new consignor was not even aware it was a seriously altered card. It is our policy that when we are aware of such a problem, and we ARE looking, we will be happy to auction the card in question - but insist on providing all information describing the alterations which have occurred to the card of which we are certain. So far, the potential consignors of such cards have elected to have these cards returned rather than have a proper description provided by REA. Last week we returned a $10,000 card. The consignor couldn't believe it was the same card that we had just sold (in a lower grade and looking quite different) in a previous auction. Only after being provided with images of the card as it appeared when we previously sold it was the consignor finally convinced. We're not guessing here. We are talking about cards that we know for a fact are problems. The fact that we have to address situations such as this at all suggests a greater underlying problem than is generally recognized. And while it is bad enough that the altering of cards is an epidemic, it is particularly disturbing that some of the most sophisticated "work" on cards (including the previously mentioned $10,000 card) has actually been executed by employees of auction houses that also deal in cards. We have to ask ourselves "What is going on here?" Turning a blind eye to this issue, in our opinion, has far greater and more significant negative potential consequences than our calling attention to it and promoting discussion. We all know that there is a subjectivity to grading and that sometimes there is an honest difference of opinion regarding a grade, or sometimes even an honest mistake. We're not talking about honest mistakes here. Active and sophisticated collectors, dealers, and auction houses know that this is a problem. They just don't talk about it, except among themselves. In the end, the collector loses. We want to be clear that we think the major grading services do a valiant job and we can't imagine what the landscape of the marketplace would look like without them. That doesn't mean there are no problems. At the end of the day, we have this advice: "Buy the card, not the holder." 3) REA highly recommends reading the just-released book "Operation Bullpen, The Inside Story of the Biggest Forgery Scam in American History". If you collect autographs, or have an interest in the field in any way, (or just like a great crime-related book), this book is required reading. This is a great book that we think every collector should read. You can order the book online at www.OperationBullpen.com or call Southampton Books at (707) 747-4705. REA has never been shy about calling attention to what we think are significant problems and issues facing the field. It is our hope that openly communicating about issues which deserve attention, which are so important to so many people, will help us to come up with better ways to address these issues, and in the long run will have a positive impact. That's how progress is made. Your ideas and suggestions are always welcome. Sincerely, Robert Edward Auctions LLC www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

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07-10-2007 09:27 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: P SpaethPete C. I would leave the criminal law to Lichtman and stick to "class auctions." <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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07-10-2007 09:42 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonIf that is the letter I am not sure what the inuendos would be so I won't comment on it. Like I said, most likely I wasn't going to comment on what Rob said anyway. I don't feel it's my place. I think altering is important to the hobby....just not as important to my collection and what I really want to talk about every day on the board. If others do then that is fine...I will try to be intelligent when I acquire cards (eyes wide open with help from folks like Kevin) and focus on the pleasures of the hobby. Quite honestly if anyone that only collects plastic wants to participate in a forum maybe they need to find a board talking about polymers....

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07-10-2007 09:49 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: P SpaethBeing holier than thou can be a difficult ground to stake out for oneself.

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07-10-2007 10:42 PM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Jerry Hrechka Jim The 2 guys to speak with about the HOW set are Marty Quinn and Mark Finn. I know Mark has posted about his problems with Mastro where he didn't receive all the items listed in a Mastro Lot (And the rarest items - Original artwork of high number R158 Gum Inc. Home Defense - were the ones he got short changed on). As far as I know he got banned from bidding on Mastro Auctions. He posted about his problems with Mastro on the NonSport board.

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07-11-2007 05:36 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimCrandellRob Lifson--"some of the most sophisticated work on cards has actually been executed by employees of auction houses that work on cards" Doug Allen essentially replied--we are the only house that fits that description but we don't do sophisticated work on cards. Leon--"no comment" Thank you OSeedy for posting this extremely important letter. Jim

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07-11-2007 05:38 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimCrandellThank you Jerry--I looked at the registry and referred a long-time participant on this board who asked to you and Marty. Jim

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07-11-2007 05:57 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: leonWhat's important to you and most of the rest of the board are two entirely different things. Have fun anguishing over your plastic...

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07-11-2007 06:03 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Dave FCrandell I've bit my tongue throughout this whole thread. But once again you come out of the depths of blackness everytime anything related to this subject comes up. You have said you don't read this board...yet obviously you do...you never miss a beat when the time comes. Its amazing how you can continually badger pretty much the same five or so people on this board. Its certainly tiresome. Reminds me of the possum that keeps getting in my trashcan. Dave

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07-11-2007 06:09 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: JimCrandellIt is fun Leon--I'm a true collector--every card in every set I collect and I like it in high quality. I also like it unaltered as do most on this board. Card alteration is widespread in ungraded cards, it is widespread in low-to-mid grade and now its permeating high grade. As one leading national dealer e-mailed me yesterday--"the funny thing is that collectors think that ungraded cards aren't just as much if not more impacted(by alteration)than graded cards". If you want to ignore all this and get in your digs against me fine--your supporters and my detractors will no doubt come to your defense. But in the hobby as a whole there is increased recognition of it every day--just look at where we are now versus six months ago...and it has the potential and I would say even the liklihood of continuing to change the hobby for the worse each day it goes unchecked. Jim

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07-11-2007 06:15 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Peter SpaethTo be clear my holier than thou comment was addressed to the REA letter not anyone on this board.

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07-11-2007 10:58 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: jayLike i said before, the grading services killed the coin business and it will kill the card business It's ashame that Mastro will be remembered as a major crook in this hobby. His Company along with the grading services (psa, sgc) should all go down together. They are one big family that have been screwing collectors over for years so that they can get richer. There's an old wise saying "greed ($$$) eventually leads to suffering (caught by FBI)" REA is doing a wonderful job in pointing these problems out.

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07-11-2007 11:07 AM

Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

Posted By: Kevin Saucier"To be clear my holier than thou comment was addressed to the REA letter not anyone on this board." Hi Peter, I read that last night and was still laughing when I woke up.

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