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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>James Feagin</b><p>Unfortunately, it looks like the tax stamp has been removed. I see the residue of one.....<br /><br />James
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>TOM B<br /><br />Thanks for listing your info. and it will tabulated along with newly<br />received data via emails to me by "readers" of our Forum.<br /><br />I do not refer to people who monitor this Forum ( but for whatever<br />reasons, choose not to post)......as "lurkers". This term connotes<br />someone who is "furtive", or "up to no good". I have met quite a few<br />"readers" of this Forum at the Philly Show; and believe me, they are<br />very interesting collectors who really enjoy this Forum. <br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated Tabulation <br /><br />As of 4 PM.....6/11/06<br /><br />PLAYER................150.....350.....EPDG.....HI NDU<br /><br />Ames (hds chest)....23........0.........0..........2<br /><br />Doyle (fldg)............22........0.........0..........3 <br /><br />Ewing....................20........0.........3... .......2<br /><br />Jones (St Louis)......22........0.........2..........4<br /><br />Lindaman...............24........0.........5..... .....6<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)......24........2.........4..........1<br /><br />Schulte (Cubs)........25........0.........0..........4<br /><br />Schaefer (Det).........7.........3.........1..........0<br /><br />Mullin (horiz)............6..,......2.........1.......... 0<br /><br />Totals..................173.........7.......16... ......22<br /><br /><br />Edited to include 3 reported Schaefer cards with PIEDMONT 350 backs. <br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>William Heitman</b><p>Schaefer, Detroit--Piedmont 150, Sovereign 150, Sweet Cap 25 & 30 150, Piedmont 350 and EPDG.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />I have seen Schaefer (Detroit) and Mullin (Throwing) in 350 in multiple instances. They are definitely not 150-only.<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Scot and Bill,<br /> I don't think Art was suggesting that Mullin Hor was a 150 only card, but was asking if anyone had seen a Sweet Cap 350. I have a Piedmont 350, and have seen several , but 0 Sweet Cap 350's. Be well Brian<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Scot and Brian<br /><br />I fully understood Art M's initial question and I wanted to prove (to at least<br />myself) a pattern that I noticed was emerging. And, that is why I deliberately<br />added Mullin and Schaefer to round out this survey (even though I was aware of<br />them being also 350 cards, since I read it in Scot Reader's book). And, sure<br />enough the pattern that I am alluding to, is that an occasional "350" back will<br />surface. But, it isn't just any 350 back, but exclusively a PIEDMONT 350 back.<br /><br /> Lundgren and Schaefer have proven this and we could continue this survey to<br />infinity and I predict that no other "350-type" back (Sw Cap, Sov, etc.) will<br /> be discovered. My theory is that PIEDMONT was always the 1st issued brand.<br />And when the T206 designers transitioned into the 350 Series (circa 1910),<br />they quickly realized Lundgren was no longer in the Major Lgs. and Schaefer had<br />been traded to Washington; therefore, they stopped printing them and only a few<br />PIEDMONT 350's got into circulation. This is exactly the same "scenerio" that occurred<br />with the Magie card at the start of the 150-Series (Magie exists only as a P150).<br /> <br />Now, regarding the other 6 cards (Ames, Doyle, Ewing, Jones, Lindaman, & Schulte),<br />can we extrapolate that they too will eventually surface with PIEDMONT 350 backs<br />in this survey......I am not too certain about that happening. We have quite a<br />formidable T206 resource to draw from in this Forum and I would have thought<br />more 350 backs would be evident by now ? ?<br /><br />All you T206 guys, let's see your inputs.....we are still far away from "infinity". <br /><br />T-Rex Ted<br /> <br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>trex,<br /><br />this PRIMACY OF PIEDMONT theorizing is absolutely fascinating.<br />seeing the development of t206's from their inception with renewed clarity<br />(even at the theorizing stage with the beginnings of corroborations) is mesmerizing---at least for us 'nuts', as you say. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />great work, Ted et al.<br /><br />a great ride! and many,many thanks for the e-mail response,Ted!<br /><br />Barry<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Ted,<br /><br />I like your "Primacy of Piedmont" theory a lot--but I'm not sure Schaefer (Detroit) exemplifies it. My survey data show one instance of Schaefer (Detroit) with Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30. This could be a mistake--either a recording error on my part or the result of an ebay seller having scanned the wrong back. But it's there in my data nonetheless.<br /><br />Here is the list of 150/350 subjects that my survey data show with a Piedmont 350 back but no other 350 back:<br /><br />Chance (Red), Clarke (Cleveland), Dahlen (Boston), Delahanty (Washington), Durham, Ganley, Herzog (New York), Karger, Kleinow (Batting), Lumley, Matty (Portrait), Mullin (Throwing), Stone and Wiltse (No Cap). (You can add Lundgren (Chicago) to this list based on what we have learned on this thread about his availability with Piedmont 350).<br /><br />Many, but not all, of these players switched teams during the 1909 season or the off-season that followed. More particularly, at least Dahlen, Delahanty, Durham, Ganley, Herzog, Karger, Kleinow and Lundgren switched teams. (Durham and Lundgren were sent down to the minors).<br /><br />I'd like to see if anybody has any of the above 14 or 15 subjects with a Sovereign 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 back. It would be great if Chance, Clarke, Lumley, Matty, Stone and Wiltse were confirmed with Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 and the others were not. That would advance your theory a long way in my view.<br /><br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Of your list Scot,<br /><br />I have Sweet Cap 350, 30 for Lumley and Herzog, NY.<br /><br />Lee<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Scot,<br /><br />I have some 350 backs other than Piedmont on cards that you just listed. Here is what I have:<br /><br />Chance Red Sovereign 150<br />Clarke Cleveland Sovereign 150, SC 150 Fac. 649<br />Dahlen Boston Piedmont 150<br />Delehanty Washington El Principe De Gales<br />Durham Piedmont 150<br />Ganley SC 150 Fac. 30<br />Herzog New York SC 350 Fac. 30<br />Karger Piedmont 150<br />Kleinow NY Batting Sovereign 350<br />Lumley SC 350 Fac. 25<br />Mathewson Portrait Piedmont 150<br />Mullin Throwing Piedmont 150<br />Stone Sovereign 150<br />Wiltse Portrait No Cap Sovereign 350<br /><br />Bill<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>my wiltse(no cap) is a Hindu---otherwise, i have 150's. chance red sc150;<br />clarke cleveland p 150;delehanty washington p150;ganley sc 150; karger p150;<br />kleinow batting p150; lumley p150;wiltse (no cap) Hindu brown<br /><br />great research question, Scot.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Great! So we can scratch Herzog, Kleinow, Lumley and Wiltse from the list before ol' T-rex even gets back on the thread!
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Elliot</b><p>Sorry for the late reply.<br />4 EPDG's out of about 440 t206's.<br /><br />Doyle Fielding--P150<br />Ewing--P150<br />Jones (St.Louis)--P150 x 2<br />Lindeman--P150<br />Schaefer (det)--Sc150<br />Mullin (hor)--Sc150<br /><br />I also have Lumley in a SC350.<br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>I'd like to see if anybody has any of the above 14 or 15 subjects with a Sovereign 350 or Sweet Caporal 350 back. It would be great if Chance, Clarke, Lumley, Matty, Stone and Wiltse were confirmed with Sweet Caporal 350 or Sovereign 350 and the others were not. That would advance your theory a long way in my view.<br /><br />Hi Scot<br /><br />I have the following cards <br />Matty portrait SC 350 Factory 30<br />Chance red SC 350 Factory 25<br /><br><br>Drew
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>thanks, elliot<br /><br />your 4 epdg out of 440 206's falls right in line with our 1% or less figure.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Scott,<br />I have the following cards from your list of 14 150/350 cards with Sweet Caporal, 350 subjects backs:<br /><br />Chance (Red), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 30<br />Delahanty (Washington), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 30<br />Kleinow (Batting), Sweet Cap 350, fac. 25<br /><br />Art M.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>steve yawitz</b><p>I've got a Wiltse (No Cap) with an SC 350 back.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Scot<br /><br />I am not sure that players like Dahlen might prove anything, since he<br />was in a Boston (AL) uniform till 1910.....well within the 350 Series<br />time frame. So I would expect this first Dahlen card to have the full<br />complement of Tobacco backs. Is this a fair assumption ?<br /><br />Anyhow, here are all my backs of the 15 cards you noted......<br /><br />Chance.......P150..SC150..P350..P350<br />JJ Clarke.....P150..SC350..EPDG<br />Dahlen.......P150..P150..SC150<br />Delehanty...P150..P150<br />Durham......P150<br />Ganley.......P150<br />Herzog.......P150..SC150<br />Karger........P150<br />Kleinow......P150..P350<br />Lumley.......P150..SC350<br />Matty.........P150..Sov 150..P350<br />Mullin.........P150..Sov150<br />Stone.........P150<br />Wiltse........P150<br />Lundgren....P150..P150..P150..P150..EPDG<br /><br /><br />Edited to add 4 more cards (Matty-P350, Kleinow-P350, Clarke-SC350 & EPDG)
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Dahlen left Boston to become the manager of Brooklyn after the 1909 season and before the 1910 season. So I think his example may be relevant to your "Primacy of Piedmont" theory (as the good professor has dubbed it). Looks like many, but not all, of the 14 or 15 have been ruled-out as Piedmont 350 only. Let's do a tally after a day or so more of contributions.<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>My Dahlen Boston is Hindu
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Dan Koochin</b><p>I was checking through my notes, one of the forum members<br />listed a Schulte (front view Cubs) 350 subjects in his T206 collection last year. <br /><br />Also , does anyone have a scan of the 'rumored' <br />M. Brown throwing Cubs EPDG? This I have to see to believe...
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>SCOT R.<br /><br />I've gone back and referred to all my notes in putting together my 3 sets<br />of T206's. And, from your list of 14 cards (except Lundgren) I have noted<br />that Durham and Ganley were tougher to find than most 150 Series cards<br />in the set.<br /><br />So, I'll go "out on the limb" and suggest that only these two will conform<br />to my "Piedmont theory" (as so far Lundgren appears to be one). Let me<br />clarify....Durham and Ganley can be found with P150, SC150, Sov150 and<br />Hindu backs. As a 350 Series card, I say they exist only as a Piedmont 350.<br />And, therefore we can expect these two also with EPDG backs.<br /><br />Dahlen (Boston) has never been tough to find according to my notes. So, I<br />I will not go "out on a limb" for him.<br /><br />And, Scot, I am sure there are some guys out there already searching thru<br />their T206 cards ready to prove me wrong.....it's a great hobby, especially<br />when we are talking T206's.<br /><br />T-Rex Ted <br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scott Mosley</b><p>Sorry that it has taken me so long to add my data but I, like others, enjoy threads and sharing information like this.<br /><br />Ames - P150<br />Doyle - P150<br />Ewing - SC150<br />Jones - SC150 fact 649 OP<br />Lindeman - P150<br />Lundgren - P150<br />Schulte - P150<br /><br />Out of a near set (minus the big six) I only have one EPDG card of Overall.<br /><br />I also have a Wiltse, No Cap, SC350 as others have reported.<br /><br />Scott
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Dan,<br />Purported Schulte (Front Views) with Sweet Cap 350 have shown up on ebay a couple of times in the last few years. Turns out that each time the seller put up the wrong back scan or improperly described the back--which was 150 in each case. I have heard other rumblings of Schulte with Sweet Cap 350, but never confirmed. I would love to actually SEE one in a PSA or SGC holder to put this issue to rest. Also, it is interesting that I have never heard any rumors of Schulte (Front View) with a Piedmont 350 back--a more common back than the Sweet Cap 350.<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Aaron Cowan</b><p>I have 2 EPDG backs of only 24 T206s, although I am a back collector. I also have a Tom Jones with a Hindu back.<br><br>Aaron Cowan<br />acowan19@gmail.com
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Scot<br /><br />"350 Subjects" survey on the remaining 6 cards that you have identified....<br /><br />Player.............P350.......SC350........Sv350. .....HINDU......EPDG<br /><br />Dahlen (Bost........0............0..............0........ .....1............0<br /><br />Durham...............0............1.............. .0............0............0<br /><br />Ganley................1............0............. .0.............0............1<br /><br />Karger.................1............0............ ..0............0............2<br /><br />Lundgren (Cubs)....3...........0..............0............ .1............4<br /><br />Mullin (horiz).........2...........0..............0...... .......0............3<br /><br />OK guys....let's keep this data rolling.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>RayB</b><p>Of the 14-15 additional cards I have only 2 in my collection of 160 or so T-206's.<br />Karger Piedmont 150<br />Kleinow Batting piedmont 150<br /><br />On another note, this thread has crystalized a lot about what I've learned about back rarities in assorted publications, including Scot's.<br />Thanks guys for rolling out the resources.<br /><br />This is now my set of choice, after many years of wandering. The intricacies are fascinating, the mystery intriguing, and the fun is endless!<br /><br />RayB<br /><br />Always looking for presentable PSA 1,2,3's that I need for my humble set.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Ray<br /><br />Welcome to the club....you are already 30% on your way to completing the set.<br /><br />Best regards, Ted
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Hi Ted,<br />Thanks for the spreadsheet. I recently owned and sold a Ganley Piedmont 350. I bought it SPECIFICALLY because it had a 350 back. You can add "1" to Ganley/Piedmont 350.<br />Thanks,<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Also recently saw a high-grade PSA example of Karger with Piedmont 350. It was either a PSA 7 or 8.<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Lo and behold, I have some relevant information...<br />I own a Sweet Caporal 350 backed Durham, so:<br /><br />Durham - SC 350<br />Dahlen (Bost.) - SC 150<br />Ganley - P 150<br />Karger - SC 150<br />Lundgren (Cubs) - P 150<br />Mullin (horiz) - P 150
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Mike (18colt)</b><p>I (like Drew several posts earlier) can confirm the Matty portrait with a SC 350 back (mine is also factory 30).<br /><br />Mike (18colt)
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Scott M,<br /><br />many thanks for your input regarding your 1, I repeat, 1 EPDG out of in excess of 500.<br />you really help the cause since you have less than<br /><br /> one-fifth of one percent EPDG---<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />barry<br />p.s.<br />great tabulating, trex!
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Dan Koochin</b><p>If its on EPDG , there's the possibilty a 350 series back too. There is a Lindaman SC350 , its PSA graded. <br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Dan K.<br /><br />Where did you see this Lindaman 350 ? And, could you provide a scan ?<br />But, as Scot Reader pointed out (on the Schulte card) front/back scans can<br />be misleading. And, this is why I have insisted in all these surveys that<br />the inputs must be based on actual cards in members' collections. <br /><br />Currently, there are only 2 Graded Lindamans on Ebay.....a P150 and SC150.<br /><br />T-Rex Ted<br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Zach S.</b><p>As to the original topic of this thread, I have 2 EPDG out of about 100. <br /><br />My Lindaman is a Pied 150...<br /><br />Zach
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Scot R.<br /><br />I know at this point it's anectdotal; however, your examples are "making my<br />case". But alas, I think we have either "mined" all the various backs that the<br />Forum members have in their collections. Or, we have reached the point where<br />we have exhausted their attention to this subject matter.<br /><br />If the latter is the case......it's disappointing, as we really have just begun to<br />develop some insight into the subtleties of the T206 back design with respect<br />to 1st Series "tougher" cards.<br /><br />T-Rex Ted
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br /><br />I agree with your last post on all counts and this will be my last post on this thread. I would summarize the findings relating to the 150-only debate as follows:<br /><br />1. Lundgren (Chicago) has been confirmed with a 350 back. The six other identified potential 150-only subjects have not been definitively confirmed with a 350 back (at least in my mind).<br /><br />2. There are a few 150/350 subjects, many of whom were traded or left the majors after 1909, who likely appear with the Piedmont 350 back but no other 350 back. This may be attributable to the Piedmont 350 print run commencing before the print run for other 350 backs. This "Primacy of Piedmont" trend may persist in the 150 and 460 series.<br /><br />Lots of room for further study.<br /><br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>I agree with Scot that much further study is needed<br />and i for one welcome the opportunity to pursue such study.<br /><br />Many thanks for your groundbreaking work, TRex.<br />And for your top drawer tome, scot, which served as the impetus for this board working together on these very important issues. I should underscore 'board working together' since we saw <br />a collegiality that is most remarkable and refreshing.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />Barry
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Judge Dred (Fred)</b><p>Wow, this thread is a testament of this bull board. Great information and opinons shared. I'm not a big T206 collector but I sure appreciate the information being shared.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted, Scot, Barry, Dan, etc,<br /> this thread is far from over. I have been in CA for the last week, but should be able to add some interesting info by early next week on EPDG and Old Mill's. <br /> Have a nice Father's Day, World Cup, Us Open, NBA Final, College World Series, weekend. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br /><br />PS Yes, Barry I am a HUGE Tarheel fan. My Mom was a cheerleader there in the 60's and my sister and I both went to school there. Davidson is a great school, but a little to tough for me, you must be pretty sharp.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BRIAN W.<br /><br />Welcome back to the "hunt"....your inputs are valuable and very appreciated.<br /><br />Thanks, and a Happy Father's Day to you.<br /><br />Ted Z
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>E. Angyal</b><p>I just got done reviewing all the backs in my collection, and am in the process of writing them to an Excel spreadsheet for ease of sorting. It takes time to do thorough research. <br /><br />Eric
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>E. Angyal</b><p>I can confirm a third example of the "rarer" Lundgren Chicago wit a Piedmont 350 series front/back combo. Also, my:<br /><br />Lindeman = Hindu<br />EPDG = Bender (trees) & Gibson - I only have 2<br /><br />I will do some sorting to add to some of the other threads.<br /><br />Eric
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>ramram</b><p>Over 200 posts in this thread and nobody's barking at anybody. Outstanding!<br /><br />Carry on.<br /><br /><br />Rob M.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Great to see this topic rejuvenated!!!<br />We're on again, TRex!<br /><br />Glad to hear you're back around Brian and ready to RESEARCH.<br />Thanks for the kind words about Davidson---i think i may have<br />been sharp years ago. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />now, as Ted says, onward to the HUNT.<br /><br />all the best,<br /><br />Barry
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>BRIAN W.<br /><br />We T206 "nuts" are awaiting your valuable inputs.<br /><br />To date.......there have been NO confirmed "350" backs for Ames (front),<br /> Dahlen (Boston), and Lindaman.<br /><br />Check-out your T206 cards guys.....this "ride" is still rolling.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p>Hi Ted,<br /><br />I said I wouldn't post here again, but your last post made me change my mind! You mentioned Ames (Hands at Chest), Dahlen (Boston) and Lindaman as not having been seen with a 350 back. I have seen a PSA graded copy of Dahlen (Boston) with a Piedmont 350 back. It was owned by Bill Latzko and he offered it to me off-eBay before he auctioned it on eBay last year. I think Dahlen (Boston) is an example of a subject that exists with Piedmont 350 but no other 350 back.<br /><br />I am curious why you did not mention Doyle (Throwing), Ewing or Jones (St. Louis) in your last post. In addition to Ames (Hands at Chest) and Lindaman, I don't believe anyone has confirmed Doyle (Throwing), Ewing or Jones (St. Louis) with any 350 back on this thread. Please correct me if I am wrong.<br /><br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Scot<br /><br />Thanks for the Dahlen (Boston) Piedmont 350 input.<br /><br />Your observation is correct on Doyle, Ewing & Jones. There are NO confirmed "350"<br />backs on these 3 as of today. I hesitated to note this on Ewing and Jones since<br />a "reader" of this Forum had emailed me that he had them. But, as of now, they<br /> have not been confirmed. Also, I have been calling fellow collectors that have near<br />complete sets and sampling their T206's. And, so far there are no surprises; as<br />all of them are the expected 150 Series backs.<br /><br />One more item......I am very surprised that there is one "350" input (and an SC<br />at that) on Durham. He was 35 years old when the T206's were first issued, his<br />very brief Major Lge career had ended; and, there was really no reason for Durham<br /> to have been extended into the 350 Series. Do you have any thoughts on this ?<br /><br />Also, it's been my experience in putting together 3 sets, that Durham has always<br /> been extremely tough for me to find.<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Scot Reader</b><p><br />Ted,<br />Durham is a toughie for sure. My ebay survey data show 1 Piedmont 350 out of 26 total transactions. The other 25 transactions were Piedmont, Sovereign and Sweet Caporal 150.<br />Scot
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I'm still waiting on a few cards to arrive before I post. I don't have anything "earth shattering" to report, but I do think my information may shed a little light on the timing of EPDG versus Old Mill. Talk to you when everything comes in. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS Scot and Ted, I agree with you about Durham.......
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Those of us who like to get down to the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 Monster<br />really appreciate all this data from at least 70 Forum posters and six Forum<br />"readers" who have not only contributed their inputs, but also their time in<br /> the process.<br /><br />After sampling a total of 400+ cards in this survey, we have reduced the<br />possibility of additional cards that could have appeared in the 150-only Series<br />(besides the known 10) to the following 8 cards......<br /><br />PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPD G........150<br /><br />Ames (Hds/chest).....0............2..............0.......... ...29<br /><br />Doyle (throw)...........0............3..............0... ..........26<br /><br />Ewing.....................0.............2........ ......3.............24<br /><br />Jones (St Louis).......0.............5..............2....... ......27<br /><br />Lindaman................0.............8.......... ....5.............29<br /><br />Jordan (port)...........0.............0..............0... ............1<br /><br />Spencer..................0.............0......... .....0...............1<br /><br />Schulte (Cubs)........ ? ............4..............0..............28<br /><br />This in no way is meant to be a conclusive study at this point, as more data is<br />needed to further confirm these particular 8 cards.<br /><br />Edited....to add Jordan, Spencer & Schulte (suggested 150-only by Bill Heitman).
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>William Heitman</b><p>I've got to tell all of you that this thread has really provided me with a walk down memory lane. At the time The Monster was published. I was but one of three collectors(the other two were late comers to this obsession) I knew who had actually collected T206 all of the ways it could be--which meant you were a back collector. I published the book in an attempt to make more "back" collectors, and it is gratifying to me to see how many of them are out there now.<br /> 1. The thread started as a look at the scarcity of EPDG backs. My list shows 201 different EPDG backs, including many from the Eastern League and American Association. That's slightly less than 5% of my list. But that's not the complete story. As I was accumulating T206, I would never trade or sell one that I did not already have. And I traded and sold thousands upon thousands of dupes and EPDG were nowhere close to 1/10 of 1 percent of these dupes.<br /> 2. Now to the 150 only cards. A lot has been learned since The Monster. Of the original 9 that were pretty well established as 150 only and shown that way in the Monster, I have not had any of the nine with other than Piedmont, Sovereign and SweetCap 150's and Hindu. I have six of the nine with Hindu backs. Of the five in Ted's most recent post. it's the same situation. The reporting of EPDG backs on these, I believe, raises the potential of a 350 back. What I believe is that Hindu was there at the beginning and EPDG came along just before, or at the time, the backs were changed to 350's. Beyond the original nine and Ted's five, there are four more that I have never had a 350 back for: Spencer, Bost AL, Chase-throwing white cap, Jordan-PO and Schulte-batting front. I do have EDPG on the Chase. Again, I believe that a 350 back is probable for any that came out in EPDG. That would mean that I cannot confirm, but strongly suspect. So it appears that the 150 only should include the original nine, two from Ted's posting and three I mentioned in this post.<br /> I'm sure we haven't heard the last word on this.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>The Chase, Pied and Jordan SC 30 I have are 150 series that I have. The Spense is a EPDG.<br /><br />Lee
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Martin Neal</b><p>My Chase (white hat) and Jordan (portrait) are sweet caporal 150s. The Spencer is a Piedmont 150.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Bill Heitman<br /><br />We really appreciate your expertise on these T206 "mysteries". Your insight<br />gives us more confidence in what we are trying to understand here. Many may<br />say this is all an academic "folly"....but, to a lot of us who strive to know as<br /> much as we can about the T206 set.....it is a joy.<br /><br />Now, you are suggesting 4 more possible "150-only" cards to the "mix"......<br />Chase (White Cap)....Jordan (portrait)....Schulte (Cubs)....Spencer (Bost).<br /><br />I have 4 cards of Chase (Wh Cap)....P150, P150, SC150 and P350. So, right off<br />the bat, we can rule him out.<br /><br />I have always thought Schulte (Cubs) to be a potential 150-only card; and, we<br />had him listed in our tabulation. However, there has been one (and only one)<br />reported P350 of this card. This report has not been made directly to me, but<br />I do know the owner of this card and I will contact him to confirm. I have had<br />at least 20 Schulte cards (as I keep upgrading) over the years and they are<br />for the most part (85%) P150 and the rest SC150. I have never seen a Sov150,<br />much less a "350" of any type....have you Bill ?<br /><br />1st....I would appreciate your opinion of my "Piedmont primacy" theory (as Barry<br />Arnold coined it); where if any of these potential 150-only cards have a "350"<br />back....it will ONLY be a P350 and will have been "short-printed" ?<br /><br />2nd....I am adding Jordan amd Spencer to the survey and restoring Schulte to it.<br /><br />Thanx much.....T-Rex Ted
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Lee B<br /><br />I do not understand your "back" inputs on these two cards....please clarify ?<br /><br />Ted Z
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>Chase Pied 150<br />Spenser EPDG<br />Jordan SC150 30<br />Schulte Pied 150<br /><br />Hope this clear's it up<br /><br />Lee<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Bill</b><p>Both my Jordan Portrait and Spencer mess up the pattern. Jordan is SC 350 Fac. 30 and Spencer is Piedmont 350. Bill<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151086161.JPG"> <br /><br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151086197.JPG">
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p> Those of us who like to get down to the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 Monster<br />really appreciate all this data from at least 70 Forum posters and six Forum<br />"readers" who have not only contributed their inputs, but also their time in<br />the process.<br /><br />After sampling a total of 400+ cards in this survey, we have reduced the<br />possibility of additional cards that could have appeared in the 150-only Series<br />(besides the known 10) to the following 8 cards......<br /><br />PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPD G........150<br /><br />Ames (Hds/chest).....0............2..............0.......... ...29<br /><br />Doyle (throw)...........0............3..............0... ..........26<br /><br />Ewing.....................0.............2........ ......3.............24<br /><br />Jones (St Louis).......0.............5..............2....... ......27<br /><br />Lindaman................0.............8.......... ....5.............31<br /><br />Jordan (port)...........1.............0..............0... ............4<br /><br />Spencer..................1.............0......... .....1...............4<br /><br />Schulte (Cubs)........ ? ............4..............0..............30<br /><br />This in no way is meant to be a conclusive study at this point, as more data is<br />needed to further confirm these particular 8 cards.<br /><br />NOTE....Although, Jordan and Spencer have been already ruled out, it would be<br /> informative to see which Tobacco brand 350 backs they occur with. <br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Drew</b><p>Schulte(Cubs) Piedmont 150(2)<br />Jordan (Por) Piedmont 150 (2)<br />Spencer Piedmont 150<br /><br><br>Drew
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>ethicsprof</b><p>Bill Heitman,<br /><br />many thanks for your comments on the EPDG 'scarcity'.<br />as you saw, most every contributor fell into the 1% EPDG<br />category out of their total T206 holdings. I agree with<br />you that one tenth of one percent falls well outside the range of typicality. It does seem fair to say that EPDG<br />did turn out to be more scarce than many of us thought.<br />Scarce does not mean rare,however.<br /><br />Perhaps most importantly at this juncture is the issue regarding the Primacy of Piedmont which Ted Z. has offered<br />up as a possible way of envisioning the early formation of<br />the T206's---the notion that any of the potential 150-only<br />have a 350 back which is only the PIEDMONT 350 back that was<br />short-printed. I,too, am eager to hear your response as well as others.<br /><br />Your comment about going down memory lane is most elucidative. Sharing the joy of research and discovery is the heart and soul of collecting the 206's. Your work on<br />The Monster, as well as Reader's recent work, along with other works in the field, have certainly contributed much to the vitality of this discussion. Again, many thanks.<br /><br />Barry<br /><br />p.s. Trex, i slipped away from the univ. and quickly found<br />my spencer is an SC 150 and my chase white cap is a pied 150---not much help yet, but i'll keep researching!<br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I also have a Jordan Portrait 350, and yes, it is a Piedmont. Both of my Spencer's are Hindu's. I will try to post more tonight. Be well Brian<br /><br /><br />PS Barry, sneaking away from the Univ isn't very ethical, but it's Ok because your a Tarheel fan.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>ethicsprof</b><p>You caught me Brian!<br />I am still at home but will run out the door right now to alleviate<br />the guilt!!<br />Being a Chapel Hill fan worked for about an extra hour off,<br />though. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />great to see you back in the thick of things.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Art M.</b><p>Adding T206 back information from my cards for the survey:<br /><br />Jordan (port) SC150, P150<br />Spencer P150, P150, P150<br />Schulte (Cubs) SC150, SC150, P150<br /><br />Great information.<br />Art<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Jim Rivera</b><p>my back info for<br /><br />Jordan portrait-SC 150/25 and Sovereign 150<br />Spencer-SC 150/649<br />Schulte-P 150 and SC 150/30
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>William Heitmanec</b><p> For years before I created the theoretical checklist that was the basis for The Monster, I had been accumulating T206 by backs and series, etc. But because I was the first, I believe, to do it that way, there had never been a checklist, in my view, that "covered all the bases." And I believe that I was probably the only person who had enough T206 to do the job. So I laid out a checklist ala the Monster's, but I didn't have any cards blacked out. Incidentally I laid the brands out alphabetically, which, of course, lead to the weird coincidence in the 350 series brands. I checked off all the cards I had (I had always kept any "new" card I found). And, believe me, I couldn't always remember what varieties I had when I went to a show or did a buy or went on a buying trip. So I checked them all off and noticed that certain patterns had emerged. I sent a copy of the checklist to Larry Fritsch as I knew he had quite a few T206 laying around and asked him to go through his and checklist them for me, which he did just a while later. He said he had gone over every T206 he had and he had no additions (no mention of Doyle, N.Y. National--this was 1979). Every card that Larry checklisted fell into the patterns I had noted. That's when I started x'ing cards out. A little later, Lew Lipset, who had just become a "back" collector went over my checklist with the same results. So then I started doing research on the players to try to understand how these patterns emerged. Demmitt, St.L. Am. and O'Hara, St.L. Nat--how weird, I thought. Only with Polar Bear backs--that made no sense. What I came up with was that the 150's started in 1909. But to give you an example of how dark the ages were back then--virtually every pioneer in the hobby had called T206 a 1910 issue. I believe the 350 series started later in 1909 and continued through most of 1910, but then late in the year the 460's came along. <br /> The primacy of Piedmont. Interesting. You have to remember that all of these companies were run by the American Tobacco Trust. It is pretty clear that Piedmont, Sweet Cap and Sovereign were the Trust's darling brands. Of those three, I suspect Piedmont was the lead brand. Because there were many, many press runs that were done in those two years, it makes sense that the "darling" brands would get the cards first. And, again, it's obvious that those would be the most common backs found. But there are just no records that were kept to show us any of this. And, believe me, before there was an internet, research was tedious, laborious--most didn't do much. And there weren't too many places to go to find information.<br /> When Denny Eckes expressed an interest in publishing a book I had copyrighted called T206 The Monster, I jumped at the chance. What better way to ignite some interest in the backs? Denny asked me to send him examples of all of the variations, all of the different backs and all of the Hall of Famers--he had a good picture of Plank so he didn't need that one. So, yes I boxed up all of the variations, all the backs and Hofers and rare cards and sent them (can you imagine) the 2500 or so miles to Denny so he could take the pictures. And, yes, I got them back when he was done. So Denny did a press run of 5000 copies, sent me 100 so I could take them with me to shows, and he was in charge of selling them. Shortly before his death several boxes showed up at my office. In them were about 2200 copies of The Monster and note from Denny in which he explained that sales had now covered his expenses so he was sending me half of what was left over, hoping I would accept that as a deal done and completed. I called him and thanked him. Neither I, nor this hobby, ever had a better friend than Denny Eckes. But Denny added the cards of Farrah without my knowledge or approval. For years, I gave updates through my Trader Speaks articles of errors that had been made when Denny had to convert my typewritten checklist to the ultimate format for The Monster. If there is interest, I will post all of those errors, in this thread tomorrow. By the way, I once did the addition and found that there were just short of 7000 different T206 and, even though that number has changed, I managed to confirm just under 5000. Getting late.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>That is great stuff, I for one cannot get enough of this type of information on<br /> the T206 set.....it just fascinates me. When I started collecting my 1st set,<br />in the early '80s, I was just content to acquire the 521 cards (Magie was a<br />reasonably priced card back then). I was not interested in the backs, I had<br />more important priorities....family, job, etc. In recent years, being retired,<br />my incessant curiousity regarding this set, has motivated me to concentrate<br />on the various backs.<br /><br />I have completed my subset of the different backs, except Broad Leaf 460 (and<br />I am in the "school" that doesn't think the Ty Cobb back is a T206 issue......<br />the front isn't the same and it has a unique "Factory 33" on the back).<br /><br />I'm happy that you seem to support my theory regarding the Piedmont brand being<br />favored by the T206 designers. I have recently reduced my 2nd T206 set to only<br />Piedmont backs and have embarked on a 518-card "all Piedmont" set. I realize it<br />would really be 522....but, I just can't afford Joe Doyle, Magie, Wagner, and the<br /> one (or two) Plank's that exist with Piedmont backs.<br /><br />So, at this point in time I have completed the 153 cards in the "150 Series".<br />I have 42 of the 48 So. Lgers and all the 48 cards of the "460-only" Series.<br />And, I have 177 of the "350 Series"; so, I need less than 100 to achieve this<br />all-Piedmont set.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Mike (18colt)</b><p>Just to add to the tally . . . <br /><br />Jordan portrait -- I, too, have the Piedmont 350 (fact 25)<br />Spencer -- SC 150<br />Chase white cap -- Pied 150<br /><br />Mike (18colt)
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Ted Zanidakis</b><p>Updated 6/24/06<br /><br />Those of us who like to get down to the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 Monster<br />really appreciate all this data from at least 70 Forum posters and six Forum<br />"readers" who have not only contributed their inputs, but also their time in<br />the process.<br /><br />After sampling a total of 400+ cards in this survey, we have reduced the<br />possibility of additional cards that could have appeared in the 150-only Series<br />(besides the known 10) to the following 8 cards......<br /><br />PLAYER.................350........HINDU.......EPD G........150<br /><br />Ames (Hds/chest).....0............2..............0.......... ...30<br /><br />Doyle (throw)...........0............3..............0... ..........26<br /><br />Ewing.....................0.............2........ ......3.............24<br /><br />Jones (St Louis).......0.............5..............2....... ......27<br /><br />Lindaman................0.............8.......... ....5.............31<br /><br />Jordan (port)...........3.............0..............0... ...........10<br /><br />Spencer..................1.............2......... .....1..............12<br /><br />Schulte (Cubs)........ ? ............4..............0..............37<br /><br />This in no way is meant to be a conclusive study at this point, as more data is<br />needed to further confirm these particular 8 cards.<br /><br />NOTE....Although, Jordan and Spencer have been already ruled out, it would be<br />informative to see which Tobacco brand 350 backs they occur with ?<br /><br />Note 2....I will be away till Monday.....let's continue the inputs to this Thread.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Bill Heitman,<br /><br />With Ted Z. i must underscore my thanks for your most illuminative descriptions of those early days when you<br />did such pre-internet, tedious, laborious work as you set the stage for this great hobby we all love. Hearing you<br />relive the various steps along the way is absolutely fascinating! It is particularly interesting to me when you<br />refer to the time as the dark ages--as i think of the dark<br />ages of the post-Roman period-- and am grateful that you and<br />others took on the responsility of taking hold of the remnants of what could have been lost of the 'culture of the<br />t206's' and created the tome that would solidify the legacy of The Monster. THANK YOU. <br />With respect to Ted Z.'s theory of the Primacy of Piedmont, your comment regarding the darling brands getting the cards first and your suspecting that Piedmont was the lead brand is helpful and corroborative---even though the primary sources are long gone (fortunately, you are the primary of the secondary sources! )<br />We look forward to your posting of the errors list which you produced upon the conversion of the typewritten checklist to the ultimate format for The Monster. The more<br />research the better for what has turned out to be a most<br />elucidative RESEARCH THREAD.<br /><br />all the best<br /><br />Barry<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>T206Collector</b><p>Okay, so I finally finished cataloging all of my backs. For argument's sake, I have listed my backs followed by all of the different T206 backs in order of scarcity according to the T206museum.com website. I have indicated how many of each back I have acquired in putting the set together. The hindu, tolstoi and cycle backed cards were intentional pick ups that had at least something to do with the backs. And I dumped a few American Beauty backs once upon a time. But otherwise, this should be a pretty normal distribution for someone who put a complete set together over the last 8 or 9 years without paying a premium for (or much attention to) the backs. If either the series or factory were illegible, they are not included below. <br /><br />Here are my findings:<br /><br />Tolstoi No 30 2d Dist NY 1<br />Sov 460 No 25 2d Dist Va 1<br />Hindu No 649 1st Dist NY 1<br />Cycle 350 No 25 2d Dist Va 1<br />AB 350 No 25 2d Dist Va 1<br />SC 460 No 42 4th Dist NC 2<br />SC 150 No 649 1st Dist NY (OP) 2<br />OM No 25 2d Dist Va 3<br />EPDG No 17 2d Dist Va 3<br />Sov 150 No 25 2d Dist Va 5<br />SC 460 No 42 4th Dist NC (OP) 7<br />SC 460 No 30 2d Dist NY 9<br />Sov 350 No 25 2d Dist Va 13<br />SC 350 No 25 2d Dist Va 16<br />OM SL No 25 2d Dist Va 16<br />SC 150 No 25 2d Dist Va 19<br />PB No 6 1st Dist O 31<br />P 460 No 25 2d Dist Va 32<br />SC 150 No 30 2d Dist NY 35<br />P 150 No 25 2d Dist Va 60<br />SC 350 No 30 2d Dist NY 70<br />P 350 No 25 2d Dist Va185<br /><br />So, first thing I noticed is that the top 14 backs listed in order of scarcity by T206museum (and reprinted for your convenience below) are, indeed, scarce (or at least much more costly, as an indicator of scarcity). I have not picked up any of them:<br /><br />1. Old Mill (Southern League - Double Overprints) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY<br />2. Old Mill (Southern League - Overprint) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY<br />3. Ty Cobb - Factory 33 - District 4 - State NC<br />4. Old Mill (Brown) - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br />5. Broad Leaf - Series 460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br />6. Lenox (Brown) - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY<br />7. Drum - Series 350- Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br />8. Uzit - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY<br />9. Hindu (Red) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY<br />10. Piedmont - Series 350-460 - Factory 42 - District 4 - State NC<br />11. Blank Back<br />12. Lenox (Black) - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY<br />13. Broad Leaf - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br />14. Carolina Brights - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA<br /><br />However, the T206museum scarcity distribution for the remainder of the backs does not always parallel my experience (my count is reprinted in brackets to the right of each back):<br /><br />15. Hindu (Brown) - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY [1]<br />16. American Beauty - Series 460 - Factory 42 - District 4 - State NC [0]<br />17. Cycle - Series 460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [0]<br />18. Tolstoi - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY [1]<br />19. El Principe De Gales - Factory 17 - District 2 - State VA [3]<br />20. Sovereign - Series 460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [1]<br />21. American Beauty (no Frame) - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [1]<br />22. American Beauty (with Frame) - Series 350- Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [0]<br />23. Cycle - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [1]<br />24. Old Mill (Southern League) - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [16]<br />25. Sweet Caporal - Series 350-460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [0]<br />26. Old Mill (Black) - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [3]<br />27. Sovereign - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [15]<br />28. Sweet Caporal (Overprint) - Series 150 - Factory 649 - District 1 - State NY [2]<br />29. Sweet Caporal (Overprint) - Series 350-460 - Factory 42 - District 4 - State NC [7]<br />30. Sweet Caporal - Series 350-460 - Factory 42 - District 4 - State NC [2]<br />31. Sovereign - Series 150 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [5]<br />32. Polar Bear - Factory 6 - District 1 - State OH [31]<br />33. Sweet Caporal - Series 150 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [19]<br />34. Sweet Caporal - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [16]<br />35. Piedmont - Series 150 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [60]<br />36. Sweet Caporal - Series 150 - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY [35]<br />37. Sweet Caporal - Series 350-460 - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY [9]<br />38. Piedmont - Series 350-460 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [32]<br />39. Sweet Caporal - Series 350 - Factory 30 - District 2 - State NY [70]<br />40. Piedmont - Series 350 - Factory 25 - District 2 - State VA [185]<br /><br /><br />A few observations/questions for the experts:<br /><br />- I don't have a single SC 460 (25 Dist 2 Va) card - is that strange?<br />- Old Mill Southern Leaguers are not particularly tough if you are willing to pay a little more just to pick up Southern Leaguers in the first place.<br />- I had two each SC 460 (No 42 4th Dist NC) and SC 150 (No 649 1st Dist NY (OP)), while I had three EPDG. I also had 3 OM (No 25 2d Dist Va) cards. Thus, EPDG's relative scarcity is not particularly significant in my collection.<br />- Contrary to T206museum, I believe Sovereigh 150's (of which I had 5) and are a bit tougher than Sovereign 350's (of which I had 15). <br />- Really only three backs are meaningfully more common than Polar Bears: SC 350 (30 Dist 2 NY) and P 150 and 350 (25 District 2 VA).<br /><br />Are there any other interesting points I'm missing? <br /><br /> <br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>robert a</b><p>Paul,<br /><br />Sweet Cap. 460 Fact. 25 are far more uncommon than say EPDG or even Hindu, but the back hasn't received a lot of credit from collectors cuz' it's not quite as interesting as other distinct backs.<br /><br />I started a thread on it here some time ago and many collectors had only one or two out of 400 or more.<br /><br />Robert
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p><br /> Hi Ted,<br /> I was going to post some cool pics and some interesting research, but since your away until Monday, I'm going to wait. Have a good weekend Brian<br /><br /><br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>dan mckee</b><p>I have a few hundred, it depends on wht the guy smoked who's hoard you find. This is a common back and always has been since the late 1960s. Many reside in old time collections that you gents do not know about. Take care.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>William Heitman</b><p>This is my second try--my first didn't take. I wanted to answer Ted's question regarding the Schulte card. I can confirm all five of the 150 backs, including Sovereign, and a Hindu back.<br />Here are the errors in the Monster that were all made in the transfer from my list to the book's list: (1) Nos. 20 and 21 should have the 350-460 series blacked out; (2) Nos. 36 and 150 should not have the series 350, Piedmont through Sweet Cap, blacked out; (3) No. 37 should have the entire 350 series blacked out; (4) No. 42 should have the Ty Cobb back blacked out; (5) Nos. 91 and 119 should have the 350 series, American Beauty through Drum, blacked out; (6) No. 141 should not have the series 350-460 blacked out; (7) The entire Texas League should have the Hindu back blacked out; and (8) After No. 509 Smith, Shreveport, there should be a team listing for Waco and No. 510 Thebo then shows as being on Waco. There might be more.<br />On Sweet Cap backs, in the 150 Series, I found #30 to be the most plentiful, followed closely by #25 with #649 being by far the least common; in the 350 Series, again, I found #30 to be more plentiful than #25; and, in the 350-460 Series, I found the overprint to be the most plentiful followed by #'s 25 and 30, both just about as plentiful as the other, and factory 42 to be the least plentiful. In all three series types, I found Piedmont to be more plentiful than any one of the Sweet Cap backs. In all three I found Sovereign to be just a little less plentiful than the two most plentiful Sweet Caps.<br />I've often been asked what started me collecting T206 in what was once considered my insane way. Well, I'm my family's third generation of card collectors. My grandfather began as a young boy in the 1880's and he got my father started as a young boy. My father collected regularly from that time until his death some 70 years later. After my birth, my father decided that he now had to collect two of everything because he then had two sons. When I was very young, he showed me these little white bordered cards that he was working on. I was rather disappointed that they didn't say anything about the players on the rear of the cards as the gold bordered and brown bordered cards did, but something drew me to the American Beauty, Broadleaf, Carolina Brights and Polar Bear backed cards and the rest, so to speak, is history.<br />I am just thrilled that all of you guys are trying to contribute to the solution of some of the many mysteries of The Monster T206.
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Bill Heitman,<br /><br />many,many thanks for the listing of errors to the Monster,the response to Ted's research<br />query, and the reflections on the your early days and the early days of t206<br />collecting. It is all so fascinating to those of us enamored of that captivating Monster.<br />do take a moment to help with Ted's new thread on Piedmont Primacy when you get a chance. As one who 'tamed' the Monster, your comments are always most<br />helpful.<br /><br />best<br /><br />barry<br /><br /><br />p.s. where are the pics Brian W.?!!!<br />we're eager.<br />
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>Brian Weisner</b><p> Hi Barry,<br /> I will try to post the pic tonight after the kids go down. My wife had a minor surgery today, so I'm "Mr. Mom" at the moment. I would appreciate everyone posting there CLAUDE RITCHEY T206'S FRONT AND BACK as soon as possible. This will help my post..... <br /><br /><br />PS No, Ritchey is not a 150 only card, but the unique change of the printing of this card will help us date EPDG and Old Mill. <br /><br />150 PIC<br /> <br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151362288.JPG"> <br /><br /><br />350 PIC<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/tmp/1151362350.JPG">
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T206 EPDG- - - how rare in your collection?
Posted By: <b>barry arnold</b><p>Thanks for the note, Brian.<br />I do hope your wife gets well quickly.<br />We're eager to see what you have whenever you're able to <br />find the time---but no rush. Mr. Mom is a tough,tough job.<br />Sorry but i don't have a Ritchey---but i'm sure loads<br />of other folks will come through.<br /><br />best,<br /><br />barry
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