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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>None taken Steve. <br />As Josh said. I want more on the above post.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>I guess that is ONE benefit to slabbing:<br /><br />The buyer knows that the card has at least not been altered or cleaned SINCE the time it was slabbed.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Trimming has gotten so good that in many cases every Grading company cannot detect it. It is a significant problem. The grading companies must find a way to stay ahead of the "trimmers" because newer technologies has made the practice easier and undectable. In my opinion, that is why pre-war cards graded 7 or less have been so on fire. <br /><br />Until "trimming" can be beaten back by the grading companies, notice I say beaten back not eliminated because I don't think it is reasonable to ever eliminate it, true rarities will trump condition rarities. Ty Cobb in a "2" in this enviornment is more valuable than Mickey Mantle in a "9". Because they are not making any more Ty Cobb's in "2's" but Mantle "9's" are being made daily.<br /><br />Until certain dealers and hobbyists are called out and forced to stop this practice the trend will be away from higher grade cards and into scarce low to mid-grade cards.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Assuming dealers are trimming, they aren't going to admit it, and other dealers and collectors who know apparently aren't going to "out" them, so I don't see how the scenario Charlie mentions happens.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Can't the graders just MEASURE the cards?<br /><br />Or is the trimming also being done in conjunction with this "soaking and stretching" we are hearing about?<br /><br /><br /><br />EDITED: I re-read the post and this answers my question:<br /><br />"Thicker issues (Goudeys, post-war Topps, N172, N162, N28 and N29s) can and often do undergo this process. Getting the extra length is the easy part."

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>How do you know who is trimming cards? Anyone who's submissions to grading companies have 80% "9's" 10% "9.5's/10's" and 5% no grade and 5% 7. Mint and Gem Mint cards used to be scarce, but now they are growing on trees. Did Mr. Mint (the Boards favorite guy) find a bunch of uncirculated cards recently because that's what a Mint or a Gem Mint card is" uncirculated. I have talked with 30 Year hobby veterans and they are still looking for one uncirculated hobby find. Its amazing how some dealers find them every couple of weeks. <br /><br />A card soaked out of an album can only become a "9" one way, soaking is not the problem. "Rototrim" is the problem, for those interested Google it. Instead of trying to find out who has a "Rototrim" find someone with nothing buy 8.5 or above inventory, that is updated weekly.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Charlie, <br /><br />Just curious, how would one find out about a dealers submission ratios - or are you just saying that we need to make certain assumptions based on the inventory being carried?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Hal,<br /><br />Trimmers are looking for oversized cards or cards from years that size is all over the place, for example 1955 Bowman Baseball. <br /><br />Peter,<br /><br />I am not trying to call anyone out but rather add some information to the discussion. Personally, if a card is in a holder of one of the major companies and I think I can buy it and sell it for a profit in a short period of time, I am not very concerned.<br /><br />However, if I were a collector or someone who holds onto inventory for along time, I would also be very concerned. Because I think higher grades cards will be worth less as time goes on, unless something can be done.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>This thread is getting very scary.<br /><br />No card is sacred.<br /><br />The thought of a "40-year-old virgin" card is rapidly disappearing.<br /><br /><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Josh,<br /><br />Just look at the inventory. I don't think anybody wants to reveal submision information.<br /><br />Charli

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Hal,<br /><br />You are correct, there are those individuals out there that are making decisions now that could really hurt the value of the medium to long-term baseball card market.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>charlie, <br /><br />Would you say that midgrade cards are being docotored less often - the post above implied that it is commonplace regardless of the grade/condition of the card?

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Having said all of this, I think the grading companies are aware of it and in there own ways are trying to fight back. But if you can trim a card in such a way that Mike Baker cannot detect it? Because Baker has the best eye and most experience in the business, not to take away from SGC or PSA but he has incredible knowledge about edges etc.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Charlie I understand why you would not want to name names. But until someone names names, or a doctor or a dealer confesses, I don't think any progress is going to be made.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>So, just what kind of Doctor is Dr. Duet anyway? <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>David Vargha</b><p>Josh -- Take one of the cert #'s on any card and start running searches on cert #'s immediately before and after that. Doing that on PSA wil often give you some "interesting" results; especially when it is 9's and 10's punctuated by "evid. of trim".<br><br>DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Thanks David - good advice. Fortunately, Im not buying any prewar 9s and 10s (or 7s or 8s for that matter).

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Josh,<br /><br />I think that there is a clear distinction between trimming and soaking and or pressing wrinkles.<br /><br />In my opinion, adding or removing form a card is wrong and deemed out of bounds.<br /><br />When I was a kid, I put my cards in books to flatten them out or would like my figure to remove gum stain or flatten stray fibers to make the cards look better. <br /><br />Personally, if someone buys a card and the corner is flipped up and they flattten it down and sell it to me and I cannot tell that something was added or removed I have no problem.<br /><br />Charlie<br />

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>I agree in some respects, though I dont want to be the owner of the psa 4 that had a wrinkle pressed out only to find out it has returned after the card was slabbed.

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>It must take a lot of guts for someone to "soak and press and trim" a 1952 Topps Mantle card in an effort to raise the grade.<br /><br />I guess the monetary gain from turning a 3 into a 6 is probably enough to make someone take the risk.<br /><br />Sad.

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>As many of you know, way back in 1996 in VBCC #7, "Daniel Paul" (not the name he "operates" under) stated flatly that when done properly certain types of restoration were virtually impossible to detect.

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Posted By: <b>identify7</b><p>I don't know, but I think that stretching photographs would require more than deionized water followed by pressing with books.<br /><br />I'd be real surprised if you can soak, press, stretch and then trim up a bunch of mint 9s from a pile vg Old Judge cards.

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>I remember on the CU boards (David might as well ) That someone copied and pasted just what was mentioned. A sub # was checked as well as all of the one's before and after. What it showed was a bunch of 9's and 10's with just as many "eve" of trim sprinkled in. I forget who the submiter was but it was one of the larger ebay dealers. Don't the graders notice this ?

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>Charlie,<br /><br />How would the rototrim even help ? I take it to mean that there are dealers out there using these ? Why ? Could you not use a steel ruler and xacto ?<br /><br />scott

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Posted By: <b>Hal Lewis</b><p>Is THAT why all of the old copies of VBCC Issue #7 are never available anywhere??<br /><br />Crap. Did he give details on HOW to do everything?<br /><br />Just his admission alone is scary... especially if 10 years of "stretching and trimming" has been going on since then!<br /><br /><img src="/images/sad.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>scott,<br /><br />Im guessing its a much more precise cut based on what I could find out through google.

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>Josh,<br /><br />I saw that stuff to. But cutting pictures is much different than 100 year old cardboard. I would think that it would still be the same as a razor. Except for a straighter cut.

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Scott,<br /><br />There are many ways to accomplish the same thing. What you described is one of them. I know that there are people using Dental instruments to create rough cuts and I have heard that some of the orignal "Topps" blades are still around. <br /><br />These are questions that are best directed at the "Trimmers", I have never trimmed or will ever trim a card.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>I mentioned Mike Baker being the Best. I also want to say that SGC and Dave Foreman, are doing a great Job of Holdering only the right cards.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>Charlie - now please tell me who the trimmers are so I can pose the question <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14>

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Posted By: <b>Peter Spaeth</b><p>Charlie your posts seem conflicting to me, on the one hand as I read you anyhow you are saying lots of trimmed cards are getting into high grade holders, on the other hand you are praising the grading services for doing a great job of catching trimmed cards. Help me understand what you are saying.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>I read it the following:<br /><br />Trimmed cards are getting by all of the graders but GAI and SGC are doing the best job detecting and rejecting trims.

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Posted By: <b>Lee Behrens</b><p>How about a clinic at this summers National on soaking and then we can have a debate. When that is done we all go to eat and laugh about it. I laugh just thinking about the soaking being done like it is a chemistry class at home. <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br /><br />I personally have no problem with it as long as only water is used.<br /><br />Lee

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>Peter,<br /><br />To elucidate, I think the grading companies are not knowingly holdering trimmed cards, but rather the trimmers have gotten many steps ahead of the conventional halogen light and ruler. Until someone figures out a better method of ascertaining a trimmed edge from an original edge, all you can do is rest on the experience of the grader. And I think GAI and SGC are the most experienced. <br /><br />Charlie<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Since the topic has now gravitated towards trimming, and the various methods of how it is done, I think that we can start talking about the trimming of modern cards, and how difficult it is to detect factory trimming that happend last month at Topps or Upper Deck vs. trimming after the fact to enhance the card:<br /><br />1) The use of laser cutters in high end print shops to trim<br />2) Trimming as little as 1/64" to enhance edges so they are razor sharp<br />3) Sheet cut cards<br /><br />How in the world is a grading company going to tell the difference between a Topps blade and a Joe Schmoe blade on a 2005 Topps card? They can't. They measure the card, grade it and move on.<br /><br />Many people with high tech equipment are shaving modern cards and slabbing them in PSA 10 and BGS 9.5 and 10 holders. <br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>I guess this is a record for a thread. It's been beat to death. Soakers say it's ok. Collectors with soaked cards in their collections can't tell anyway. So everybody should be happy. This same subject has crept into another thread too. About the Cobb and grading companies. How about started a thread about fixing cards so they can be graded, not soaking. Someone told me there is a couple of young guys on the West coast who have been doing this for years. The grading company knew who he was and he was not able to submit cards under his name. So, he has someone else send the cards in or take them to a show for grading. The last I heard they were buying properties in Florida as investment with their large profits on "altered" cards that were able to be graded. Anyone else heard this story.<br /><br />Joe

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Posted By: <b>Richard</b><p>Joe, are you talking about altering modern cards or prewar cards?

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Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>One very well known national dealer who used to post here named names(I think on the CU boards) and I think regrets it. He has subsequently mentioned how it has hurt his business. As I recall, he named 5 well known dealers who are involved in card alteration.<br /><br />I tried to raise the issue on CU and LTS from the perspective of companies increasing their efforts to detect timming/pressing etc. but it was a message collectors there did not want to hear and I know PSA did not want to hear it and I was shouted down.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Jim Crandell</b><p>Another dealer who is very knowledgeable about what is being done is Michael Wentz--and he is not one of the people I am referring to in the above post.

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Posted By: <b>joe</b><p>Richard, was never told what kind of cards. Now that you post the question I would bet it was not on vintage cards that we talk about on this board. I forgot how much money was being spent on some of the modern cards. I just wondered if anyone else had heard anything about it.<br /><br />Joe

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>no point to be made, just wanted to be #200.

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Posted By: <b>David McDonald</b><p>And somewhere in Iowa a young collector sighs.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>The world will now come to a fiery end! I have to agree with Jim Crandall and Peter, god that hurts. <img src="http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/smileys/143.gif"><br /><br />But alteration is alteration, regardless of if it leaves noticeable signs. I would be pissed to know that someone sold me a SGC 80 for full boat only to find out he soaked and restored the card and never mentioned the fact to me. And if you guys have no problem with this then I think someone here can sell a Just So Burkett as long as there is no evidence that it was restored. <br /><br />To me this is like not disclaiming that a car was in a wreck and was re-painted before purchase. Maybe the hobby needs CardFax.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>I disagree John - The Burkett has had something added to the card that wasnt there - namely paper. Completely different situation.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“I am personally offended and sick that anyone would collect a card of Hitler. That might be the single most repulsive collectible I have ever seen and to the owner, what can you say? That guy killed many of my relatives and he gets a trading card? Wow!! I can't figure out who is worse Hitler or the guy that is collecting his cards.”<br /><br />And as for this comment, I have been down this road many times here; if this were the case then half of the world’s museums would be empty! I guess those crazy Catholics should be condemned too for that Shroud of Turin, I mean what kind of sick bastard would want Jesus’s so called burial cloth! And those insane plane collectors with their WW2 fighter planes who would want a plane that killed thousands of people, lets go destroy that Enola Gay Charlie you and me…<br /><br />Oh and by the way Charlie I have quite a few rare non-sports cards that depict Hitler and the Nazi Party, in fact some of them came from a lot of non-sports in a Masto auction. So go ahead and label me and Mastronet anti-Semitic, neo-nazi fascists while you’re on your soapbox.<br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Ok on the Burkett point taken, but you have no issue with me selling you a card that was cleaned from filth to new only to not disclaim it to you because it made it in a holder. To me I think were all splitting hairs here between stealing a pack of gum and a car. To me it’s stealing either way but everyone has his or her own way of twisting it to fit his or her mold.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>why dont we keep this on the current point - charlie was by no means the only one who found the post puzzling, offensive, etc. Steve explained and all was forgotten/forgiven - why bring it back up now?

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Because I just got around to reading it Josh, I didn’t realize there was time limit to respond to comments made or that I needed your permission. I apologize for voicing an opinion to the comments made on a discussion forum.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>John, <br /><br />I actually would have no problem with a card that was soaked to remove paper that shouldnt have been there in the first place - disclosed or not, it wouldnt affect my bid. Similarly, if you took a qtip and water and got rid of a small amount of dirt, I would still take the card. I have a bigger problem with chemical cleaners or some other sort of professional restoration.

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>You certainly dont need my permission - it just came across as an attack on a tangental topic that was dead and buried. I found it unnecessary, if you or others disagree, then by all means go right ahead and blast away.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>This is what is so funny about this forum, Charlie made a comment saying that people who would collect items of dark historical background , were in a fact on the same level if not worse than that of what they may collect. How was that not an attack from Charlie read his quote above.<br /><br />I simply make an educated comment back stating that he should re-think before he labels people, and then I give insight to my thoughts and why I disagree. It now becomes an attack? <br /><br />I also like how a few posters seem to dictate what topics are dead and what’s not, how many moderators does this place have now???<br /><br />To me Charlie’s comment holds the same amount of water as saying because you collect cards of Ty Cobb a known racist that you must hate black people. Now I’m going to go bid on some Ruth cards and drink some cold beers, sleep with some women and eat to many hot dogs.<br /><br />Sorry I’ll try not to put my 2 cents in anymore on this post Josh, no since having a discussion on a discussion forum huh? Where’s Blackheart the attacker when you need him???<br />

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p><br />"To me Charlie’s comment holds the same amount of water as saying because you collect cards of Ty Cobb a known racist that you must hate black people. Now I’m going to go bid on some Ruth cards and drink some cold beers, sleep with some women and eat to many hot dogs"<br /><br /><br />John,<br /><br />If you want to collect Hitler memorabilla thats cool. In fact, their are many historical documents or artifacts related to Hitler that need to be in musuems etc but collectible is much different than a historical artifact. Ty Cobb stood for many good things, Hitler had zero redeeming qualities. Its an amazingly stupid comparison you made between baseball players and their faults that caused zero deaths to a person who caused millions of deaths. <br /><br />To make that comparison exposes either your ignorance or stupidtiy?<br /><br />You are making light of a subject that should not be discussed here. <br /><br />I am sure there are some other chat boards for Hitler?<br /><br /><br />

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Posted By: <b>scott ingold</b><p>Seems to me there was no other reason for the recent comments re: Hitler (current remarks) than to start a disagreement.<br />Oh well. Still a great thread if we can keep it on topic.

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>“Ty Cobb stood for many good things”<br /><br />Well besides a known racist, beating a man with no hands and stabbing a guy, I’m sure was a real sweetheart.<br /><br />”Hitler had zero redeeming qualities”.<br /><br />Some scholars may argue that point with you while a total freaking nut job (I agree), Hitler was good at the re-structuring and economic growth of Germany. This is in no way a radical thought, and he is an historical figure regardless of what he did. I also have cards of Edwin Booth who’s brother John Wilkes Booth shot Lincoln, should I get rid of those to. How about all those Pirate cards put out by Allen & Ginter didn’t they kill rape and pillage? Or were those of happy pirates?<br /><br />I also collect rare weapons (swords, armor, guns) but I’ll make sure none of them have a violent past just for you Charlie.<br /><br /><br />“To make that comparison exposes either your ignorance or stupidtiy?”<br /><br />Who’s attacking who? Charlie if you would like to discuss in more detail and have an educated discussion off line feel free to email me, if you can take your foot out of your mouth long enough to talk, without labeling people with ridiculous comments that they must be Nazi’s and that history can never be discussed if it offends someone. That’s pure ignorance plain and simple.<br /><br />Also for the record before you call someone stupid, try ending stupidity with ity not tiy just a thought.<br />

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Posted By: <b>Charlie Barokas</b><p>John,<br /><br />Its a shame you want to ruin this thread. I stand by remarks. <br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>I was simply responding to your comments above, I hope you don’t stand by this remark. <br /><br />“I am personally offended and sick that anyone would collect a card of Hitler. That might be the single most repulsive collectible I have ever seen and to the owner, what can you say? That guy killed many of my relatives and he gets a trading card? Wow!! I can't figure out who is worse Hitler or the guy that is collecting his cards.”<br /><br />I was hoping how you might see, that you could very well be insulting some of your fellow collectors who may collect items that could fall under your generalizations about things (Horrors Of War, Non-Sports Issues), hence labeling someone something that he’s not or un-fairly grouping him in with a group.<br /><br />But I wont ruin this thread, I apologize for ruining the thread to any one who feels I did. <br /><br />Leon feel free to delete all of my comments so I don’t ruin the forum for any one, must be all those damn questionable collectibles and artifacts I have collected making me such an evil spiteful person.<br />

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Posted By: <b>John E</b><p>This may be a completely stupid suggestion, but couldn't the grading companies set a minimum weight requirement for a card which would help detect trimming and stretching. This probably would only work for cards that would normally grade a 6 or better, since normal wear might account for weight loss on lower grade cards. In addition, it would have to only apply to cards where there is uniformity in size.

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Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>I think this is a very good thread...almost strayed a few times but not too badly. I will politely ask that we not talk about Hitler stuff anymore in this thread. I don't know of a Pre-WWII baseball card with him on it. Notice, I said "in this thread" because I don't really ever want to deny some discussion, on almost anything, if it can circle back around to what the board is about. For the record there are 4 moderators on the board but I do make most of the decisions.....hence the "forum owner" part. Now carry on....oh yeah, I also don't have a problem with a Q tip and water on a card, or possibly soaking to ONLY get remnants off, or gum erasing a mark. I spoke with some principles of one of the largest auction houses yesterday and they asked my stand on this subject. I told them what I just stated and I won't be a part of anything else....although I do know it goes on...but so do a lot of things I won't do or be a part of....regards<br /><br />edited to say that I don't mean to sound like a "do-gooder"..cause I ain't <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14><br />

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Posted By: <b>Josh K.</b><p>.

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>I may have to rethink my position.<br /><br />Damn--I thought he said he was leaving the boards.

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Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>It wouldn't be the first time someone has left a board, then returned, then left, then returned, then get banned, then return, etc.

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Posted By: <b>MANONTHEROCK</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />Thanks for ending the mindless Hitler discussion. And for the record I agree with Josh.<br /><br />Moving on, instead of naming dealers who are believed or known to be "trimmers" I feel it might be better to name dealers than are believed or known to not "trim".<br /><br />In my opinion, the following dealers do not "trim" cards!<br /><br />1.Wayne Varner<br />2.Steve Hart<br />3.Andy Madec<br />4.J.P. Cohen<br /><br />I will start with these as they are the first that come to my mind.<br /><br />Charlie

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Posted By: <b>Frank Wakefield</b><p>Gentlemen, and Ladies, too...<br /><br />This thread was about soaking, not an evil man of decades past.<br /><br /><br />To clarify, my support of soaking a T206 to remove dirt, scrapbook paper, and paste remains is in no way an endorsment of stretching and trimming a card. I'm absolutely against that. Completely. I'd think that measuring the frame line of the "picture" would reveal a stretched T206. <br /><br />Someone back up there mentioned soaking a 1952 Mantle. Do that only if you dislike the Mik, or if you want to decrease the card population, or it is your soon-to-be ex-wife's Mantle and you're destroying it for revenge... It is my understanding that 1952 Topps won't survive water.<br /><br />Regardless of everyone's position on soaking, it is really great to be "soaked" with this fountain of knowledge. You guys are great! Even the ones of you who are wrong on this!

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Posted By: <b>John</b><p>Everyone seems to miss my point I only mentioned you know who because it was mentioned above. Not because I enjoy or like the topic.<br /><br />My point is very simple there are countless items, which could be collected, that come from desperate and disturbing times throughout history Civil War, WW2, Crusades etc. To generalize as Charlie did that anyone who would collect any items that may be connected in any way with a historical figure or time was in fact being supportive of beliefs or being on the same level as that of the historical item.<br /><br />If you gentleman can’t see the wrong in that statement he made, then its best I not try to explain anymore.<br /><br />I never claimed to support anyone’s beliefs or historical views just pointing out the facts of history. Quite frankly I don’t appreciate the implied tones from the above posts that I do. <br /><br />Also one more point to ponder. The Roman army was one of the most brutal and destructive forces that have ever walked the earth, they were also responsible for thousands if not millions of Jewish deaths too. I wonder if I mentioned that I had a Roman uniform or coin collection would people be so offended.<br /><br />No I am not Jewish, but that should have little baring on rather or not I can understand or comprehend tragic times, or have an idea regarding the historical significance of times throughout history, and or have an educated opinion of such.<br />

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Posted By: <b>JimCrandell</b><p>Brian,<br /><br />Right you are--and in the right sequence.<br /><br />Jim

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Posted By: <b>Al Crisafulli</b><p>"Now I’m going to go bid on some Ruth cards and drink some cold beers"<br /><br />"Sorry I’ll try not to put my 2 cents in anymore on this post"<br /><br />"if you would like to discuss in more detail and have an educated discussion off line"<br /><br />"But I wont ruin this thread, I apologize for ruining the thread to any one who feels I did."<br /><br />"then its best I not try to explain anymore."<br /><br />Awesome. Great. Thanks.<br /><br />-Al

Opinions on Soaking/Pressing
 

Posted By: <b>leon</b><p>Since it was reiterated I think I better set a small issue straight too. Since I have been sort of running the board only one person has been banned and allowed back. He hasn't posted again and was only banned for a day or so....no one else has been banned and let come back on this shift, as far as I remember..Many have left and come back though....One other thing too...I do think we should be somewhat tolerable of what folks collect as long as their thoughts and sentiments are in keeping with some sort of moral views...and this is the last on that subject, please...Be prepared to have your post deleted, from here on out, if it isn't on the original topic of this thread......best regards...

Opinions on Soaking/Pressing
 

Posted By: <b>Brian</b><p>Leon,<br /><br />I was refering to an instance on another board, not 54. Sorry for the confusion...<br /><br />Brian

Opinions on Soaking/Pressing
 

Posted By: <b>tbob</b><p>Just curious, for those who have soaked cards for whatever reason, (to get paper off or to remove wrinkles or to clean cards, etc.) which cards have proven susceptible to being soaked? Obviously T206s do, and Frank mentioned he soaked a Home Run Kisses (I had been told never to soak a Zeenut because of disintegration issues and aren't the Zeenuts and Home Run Kisses very similar in paper stock?). I would think OJs would be a terrible candidate because of the way they were made, but what about glossy cards like Obaks, E106s, T213-2s, etc? Anyone?