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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I have to disagree with Gilbert about the comic book part of his statement. There are many collectors who enjoy collecting, and actually reading their comics, and give little regard to condition above a certain level. <br /><br />I collected for many years and was satisfied with copies that were in readable condition, regardless of any imperfections. When you get to the level of investment grade copies, or collecting the best condition examples possible, comics are way beyond the technology of cards. <br /><br />The one grading company so far, CGC, labels the comics if they have been restored in any manner. It is not clear to me why if a multiple page comic book can be scrutinized, cover to cover, for signs of restoration, why a small baseball card cannot be, IMHO.

WHAT IS THE KEELER ROOKIE
 

Posted By: <b>Gilbert Maines</b><p>Upon re-reading my previous post, I can understand why anyone would think that I feel comic book collecting is a hobby of less stature than other collectibles. I certainly do not feel this way at all.<br /><br />I do not have any interest in comic books, stamps, matchbooks, cigar bands, bottle caps and many other things. But I do not feel that the collection of these items are of different significance - heck, I think it is all trivial, and mainly for fun.<br /><br />One thing about comic books, tho. The encapsulation of these uniquely renders them less enjoyable (in my outsiders view) since you can no longer read them. Whats up with that?

WHAT IS THE KEELER ROOKIE
 

Posted By: <b>warshawlaw</b><p>is why anyone would want a comic book in a slab. How can you read it?

WHAT IS THE KEELER ROOKIE
 

Posted By: <b>Scott</b><p>Scott, I'm sorry but if I had to believe one or the other, Doug wins hands-down. The reasons are simple - you have admitted that you can't remember much of what is said to you, or that you say - a real good reason for others to be skeptical of your claims. Your posts are usually rambling and undecipherable, so I normally don't respond to them, even if I have a good guess as to the point you are trying to make. I made an exception this time because of your ridiculous comparison of this situation to your buddy's, and then your follow-up foggy accusations against Mastro. This is a thread you should have sat out.<br /><br />If you intend to attempt any more wit directed at me, you might want to send an email - I have no intention of opening this ridiculous thread again.

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Posted By: <b>Scott</b><p>...prior to my exit (from this thread only <img src="/images/happy.gif" height=14 width=14> don't get your hopes up!)<br /><br />Scott, it's not that I don't trust you - I can't recall you ever lying about anything, and I wouldn't expect that. If you re-read my posts, you will see that I simply think you are a confused individual who needs to re-read his posts very carefully before submitting them.<br /><br />As far as your references to my kissing Jay's *ss, you obviously haven't followed any of my past posting "discussions" with him, including the most obvious first response to this thread - go back and re-read that one and tell me what an ass-kisser I am. I had a phone conversation with Jay after that initial post, in which he explained what happened, as he has since done in this thread. You've ignored all that and gone off on your own blurry agenda.

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Posted By: <b>DD</b><p>I agree about the slabbing of comics. It is done for profit and investment, and also to protect them from the elements. My other point, and I wish someone would respond about it, is how can CGC spot restoration, and card graders either cannot, or will not?

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>SGC is part of the parent company that owns CGC also. I never understood why they could slab cards and label them the same way they do comics. Green labels for unaltered cards, red (or some other color) for altered cards, with notes as to the alterations. Given the small size of card slabs, they could simpley have a numerical code and youc ould check these codes on their website.<br /><br />My personal preference would be full disclosure as to why the card got a given grade regardless if it is altered or not. They put this on the website too. Just punch in the card ID number and you could get the info. I'd be willing to pay a little extra to ahve this info available.<br /><br />Jay- Just trying to help this become the new record thread<br /><br><br>The difference between genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: <b>PASJD</b><p>I may be wrong about comics but I think the difference may be that comic book restoration is not done with the intent of deceiving anyone, whereas (at least some) baseball card restoration is done with that intent and some practitioners are good enough to escape detection. I recall the chilling words from the article about "Daniel Paul" in 1996, wherein he stated (in substance) that really good restoration could not be detected. And one can only presume the art form has improved in the past 8 years.

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Posted By: <b>jay behrens</b><p>comic restoration is done to decieve too. It's jsut harder to pass them off now since resotred copies are slabbed and anyone spending money on highgrade examples isn't going to leave the huge sums of money behind that grading a nice clean raw example would bring. Raw, high grade examples are very suspect.<br /><br />Jay<br><br>The difference between genius and insanity is acceptance.

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Posted By: <b>Julie</b><p>biggest sports auction house in the country routinely asks<br />consignors whether they can do a bit of cleaning and, er, mending to their offerings, doesn't charge for THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS worth of work, and then offers them to the public with a MINIMAL explanation of what has been done ("<br />pinholes--relegated to the corners--filled in" "cleaned")<br />Thousands of dollars?<br />The first 19th century photo I ever got--I broke in two pieces, opening. I didn't think that a mounted 19th century photo would be fragile. I was an idiot. With help, I found a reputable restorer, and we agreed that he should put the photo back together, with no attempt to hide the break, and with no use of new materials. This cost $300. The photo is probably no longer salable--which is the way i wanted it. (Seth, you have no IDEA how sorry I am...)The break is really more obvious--my old scanner was very flattering.&lt;br<br /><br /><img src="http://www.network54.com/Realm/jphotos/cabcar.JPG">

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Posted By: <b>MW</b><p>Has anyone received any correspondence from Doug Allen/Mastro concerning the questions posed by Hal, PASJD or me?

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>When I was moving once, I dropped some stuff off at my parent's including a 1800s Sweet Caporal die-cut cardboard sign of a soldier with a small die cut tassle on the of his helmet. When I went to my parents to pick stuff up, my mom said that she had dropped the sign and the tassle broke off, but, not to worry, she had glued it back on with elmer's glue. She did a good job too, and most collectors would never notice.

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p><img src="http://www.cycleback.com/cardads_files/image005.jpg">

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Posted By: <b>hankron</b><p>I once gave my mom a 1800s William Hogarth (British artist/painter) engraving about the size of a Harper's woodcut. A few days later I was visiting her and saw that she had the print sitting on a table next a much narrower frame. <br /><br />I said, "Is this the frame you're goint to be using? The print will never fit in there."<br />She said, "I know. I'm going to cut down the print so it fits."

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Posted By: <b>Joe P.</b><p>Julie:<br />Joe P, how can you say there's "hope for the hobby"<br />*<br />*<br />Big Julie please re read my post.<br />The hope is based on the questions being asked.<br />Here at Slab Haven, that's considered to be a Giant step forward. <br /><br />Oh yes, I was just told to remind some of you.<br /><br />Not to forget to leave your offerings at the Temple of the Gods on Mt. Olympus. <br />

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Posted By: <b>Scott Elkins</b><p>Well, I can tell from your next to last post that YOU are a liar (since you did post again - within seconds, after stating you would NOT)! Also, I have come to the conclusion that the SEVERAL people who have e-mailed me telling me what an idiot you are surely KNOW what they are talking about!<br /><br />I do not see how you would believe Doug Allen over me hands down. Sure - I admitted I could not remember every detail of my conversation with Doug. I DO remember him saying the cleaning process would involve a Q-Tip and Bleach. Doug FIRST stated he did not remember the card being cleaned at all. He THEN stated in another, later e-mail to me that Mastronet DEFINITELY did "clean" the Red Cross card. BOTH of these e-mails are posted above, if you have the intelligence to find them (which you should have done before making your last two posts). After reading the e-mails I posted on here, anyone with an IQ above 5 (moron) would believe me over Doug as to who remembered the most regarding the Red Cross card and our conversation. Afterall, Doug sees thousands of cards - that card was MINE (I would definitely remember more about it and the details involved than someone who only considered it a lot #)!<br /><br />P.S. I will not lie, as ruscott did. This will probably not be my last post. It will however, if runscott will quit lying and trying to turn around what I posted - maybe he needs to watch the FACTOR and their "No-Spin" Zone?????

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Posted By: <b>al davis</b><p>actually, the intelligence quota scale rates a moron as between 50-69, an imbecile between 30-49, and an idiot below 29. i hope this has been helpful.

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Posted By: <b>Richard Masson</b><p>It is typical of comics to be "cleaned and pressed" and this is not generally regarded as being restored. Restoration is when colors are touched up, pieces are added, tears are repaired, new staples used, etc. It is accepted practice because it is important for the comic to survive and not deteriorate further. Restoration can usually be easily identified using a black light and a magnifying glass. The high grade unrestored books are few for most of the key books and all the dealers know which copies are which and who owns them. In fact they are called by name; e.g.,"Mile High", "San Francisco", "Lawson", "Chicago","D collection", depending on their provenance. <br /><br />Why anyone would want one in a slab is beyond me too.

WHAT IS THE KEELER ROOKIE
 

Posted By: <b>Judge Dred</b><p>Final hammer - $5032 (including juice).