Retraction
 

As many of you know this post is a work in progress, it is a living breathing post the final assessment has not been made. Understand as new information comes in, theories and thoughts in this post can change.

New information has come to my attention to where I have to make a retraction: I posted to Pat R in post 149 of this thread; the cards in question would be placed in the "Festberg" find because of the backs, based on the information we had at the time.

Quote: “Pat: What we now know teaches that the images in post #53 of the old thread (cards of your friend) are from the Festburg cards discovered in NJ 1980s- Ivory / Beige paper stock, squared corners, 2 ¼ x 3 ½, .1mm thick, weight 1 gram. It could be the same set… from the letter from The Sporting News from the 1980s…from Stanley Apfelbaum see post 140 in this thread.”

With the help of butchie t we were able to determine we cannot place the cards from post #53 from Pat R in the old post from Ted Z, in the category of the "Festberg" find.

What we had discover - the backs of the cards from: the Festberg find, butchie t cards from, the Baseball card society letter, cards I bought that were believed to be from the Festberg find, cards I bought from a collector who collected the cards circa 1940s first hand…all have the same backs.

Therefore what we can say, is the cards from Pat R: are circa 1940s and could come from any of the above sets. As to date, the above cards should be categorized square trading cards under the umbrella of “Bond Bread” cards, not inserted into loaves of bread, circa 1940s.

Images below 1st card from a collector who collected circa 1940s, 2nd card believed form Festberg find, 3rd from scan from BCS from butchie t, 4th from what is believed from the 24 cards set issued circa 1940s. - 1950s.
John.

butchie t- Sorry I did not mean to speak for you. If you can explain what you have discovered about the cards mentioned above. Do you agree with the assessment I made on them? Thanks John.

John,

Don’t worry about me and our conversations. Feel free to post anything you deduce from them. And post any pictures as well.

I’ll cobble together my findings over the next couple of days. Other ‘irons’ in the fire at the moment.

Cheers,

Butch.

Thanks to butchie_t
 

Butch: Was kind enough to send images of his cards. First card believed from the Festberg find, middle card Bond Bread card, third card from Baseball Card Society. Notice- Festberg find and the BCS have the same ivory backs while the Bond Bread card has a cream white back. John

David Festberg
 

I was doing a Google search on David Festberg and this generated AI information popped up. I never heard that he reportedly found a significant collection of rare baseball cards. Has anyone else?

AI Overview: The "Festberg Find" refers to a significant collection of rare baseball cards discovered by David Festberg, a prominent early baseball card dealer, which included a particularly valuable Honus Wagner T206 card considered one of the "Holy Grails" of sports memorabilia; this find is notable for its historical significance and the high auction prices the cards commanded when sold later on.

Key points about the Festberg Find: Discovery:

David Festberg, who ran one of the first dedicated baseball card stores in Brooklyn, reportedly found the collection, including the Wagner card, in an old paper bag while purchasing a batch of cards from another dealer.
Significance of the Wagner card:
The Honus Wagner T206 card is considered one of the most valuable baseball cards due to its scarcity, with only a few known examples remaining.

Impact on the market:
The Festberg Find's sale at auction significantly increased the market value of the Wagner card, setting a new benchmark for prices achieved by rare baseball cards.

Legacy:

The story of the Festberg Find is often cited as a prime example of the thrill and potential for high rewards within the world of antique card collecting.
Rare Ty Cobb Baseball Cards Found In Old Paper Bag Help Smash Honus Wagner Auction Record May 4, 2016. Thanks John

David Festberg
 

Read whole article:

https://collectrea.com/archives/2016...r-honus-wagner



David Festberg, a very noted (and colorful!) collector and dealer from Brooklyn, New York, who was extremely active in the hobby for several decades beginning in the 1970s. Festberg was one of the very first dealers to regularly run auctions in Sports Collector's Digest, and in February 1993, he announced in a full-page advertisement his intention to offer up for auction his personal example of the legendary Wagner card. The card, according to Festberg's ad, was purchased at the Willow Grove, Pennsylvania, show in 1986 for full asking price from a dealer on the show floor who was representing a "well known collector." Festberg kept the card in his personal collection until making the decision to offer a T206 Honus Wagner for auction in the SCD. Thanks John.

Grading
 

Has anyone tried to grade any of the Festburg cards? The ones with square corners and cream colored backs. It looks like PSA wont grade them at all, and SGC grades the rounded corners and exhibits.
If you have tried grading them, what did SGC say?

Mikehallett22: Great question. But first let me say- The Festburg cards are on ivory/beige paper stock. The round corner Bond Bread cards, the ones inserted into loaves of Bond Bread are cream in color. My research has shown that the square corner cards circa 1947-are on ivory/beige paper stock, that's including the Festburg cards.

While grading companies don’t grade square cards anymore, many reasons are given as to why. The problem is they are stuck in the past. They are stuck in their old ways, same old same old ways of looking at cards and not taking any new information into account. I believe they do not know what to look for. They can grade the appearance and quality of the card, but will not say anything about the origins of the cards. This is because of past guarding issues. In the past they have given circa dates from 1947-1950, have called them Bond Bread cards to an unknown issues.

I have seen cards that were graded and certified, that are obvious fakes by some of the top grading companies. I believe this is the reason, they are not up to date on what to look for, therefore they just will not grade square corner cards. Maybe just maybe- they were called out on the obvious fakes that they graded over the early years and refuse to grade cards they are not sure about.

Well I say do you homework. I do not use grading companies, for one I hate the slabs they come in: But if you are in it for the money and not the fun…then you want your cards to be graded. And we as collectors want these companies to grade the square corner cards again, this can be done, we just need to set up guidelines. Call them-“Previously called Bond Bread, square corner cards, circa 1940s-1949 and grade appearance and quality of the card.

What we do know about the Bond Bread cards and the look alike squared cornered cards is that both were issued circa 1947, that is the general consensus now: Of course there are fake cards that were reprinted or copied circa 1950 to date. But that is the caveat of those cards, we can tell them apart from the real issues cards in 1947.

I don't understand why most vintage card collectors and Grading Companies remain highly skeptical towards these square corner cards, deeming them little more than fakes. Again yes there are fakes, but to call all square corner cards fakes or some kind of reprint, is wrong.

The problem is that many of these Grading companies claim the square cards are fakes or reprints. Others don't grade Bond Bread at all, because someone could take a square-corned (reprint) and round the corners and try to pass it off as an original.

That last part is total BS, if they did their homework, they would know that the square corner cards are on different paper stock then the round corner cards. If you take a square card and cut the corners…all you have is a square card with rounded corners. No way, that card would not pass off for a Bond Bread card if the card grader did his homework. Now in the past someone might fall for such a thing. But there is no way a trained card grader should be taken in; unless they grade the same old same old way. The information is out there to take in and grade square cornered cards in this age. Why not do so?

Below I show two cards, it’s hard to really see the color difference when posting on a computer screen that's because you do not see the true color of the cards. The first card is a true Bond Bread card, the second is a square corner card: I rounded the corners to look like a Bond Bread card. The backs show the one I rounded is a fake.

The first: A true Bond Bread card, on cream white paper stock. Second card:Fake, squared card, I cornered. On ivory/ beige paper stock. Third card: Bond Bread on left, fake on the right: There is no way a fake square card made to look like a round corner card will pass off as a true Bond Bread card. Fourth card: Bond Bread on bottom. Fake card on top. As you can see, taking a square corner card and rounding the corners will not pass as a Bond Bread card- if you know what to look for. It is best to have a card you know is Bond Bread and use that card to compare other cards too. John

Fake is certainly an interesting tag line here.

I will agree that fake can be used in conversation about the square cards being 'fake' Bond Bread Cards.

That is where the 'fake' monicker stops for me.

Now, lets move on to what is probably more closer to fact then fake. The square cards are more than likely circa late 40's.

They were more than likely printed from proofs? that were also used for the Bond Bread Cards. The similarities are just too strong to ignore out of hand.

Who printed them? Pretty damned good chance it was Aarco that printed them.

And I believe it fair to say they ended up in the Sports Star Subjects Sets. This for me, is the missing link.

Michael Fried had a great deal of data and conversations between net54 posters here and then went dark. I have reached out to him regarding this thread and to weigh back into it. But no reply from him.

Ted Z. was very adamant in their conversations but I am now of the opinion that Ted did not have all the facts either. That is fine, he remembered the cards as he did and was not inclined to engage in a different aspect of the origins of these cards.

So, here we are today. I believe John has put in a great deal of legwork to at least readdress the conversation as to where these cards belong in the hobby.

I believe they do belong in the hobby and not as fakes. Even some of the larger catalogs refer to the 'square cornered' cards. So it is not like they just showed up one day in the late 80's from out of the blue.

They were 'there' long before that and were rediscovered by someone.


I know there are many here that have information regarding this topic and I beg of you to weigh in with your thoughts. Wouldn't it be great to add another group of cards to the larger cataloging of cards.

These cards need a cataloged home. And not as a fake set of cards either.


Butch Turner

Wise words
 

Butch, thank you, but I believe everyone here has put in a lot work, and if we can get people to weigh in and comment it would be of great help, no matter how big or small the subject might be. Any contribution is with looking over, ask questions and make statements, someone will be able to give an answer. John

Follow up post 168
 

First card, the only squared corner-graded card I have, printed on Ivory/Beige paper stock.

Second set of cards is Bond Bread squared, on ivory/beige paper stock and a Collectors & Traders Screen Star Subjects- bright white paper stock.

The third set is Wildman & Son "Screen Star Subjects on ivory/beige paper stock and Collectors & Traders Screen Star Subjects, bright white paper stock, die-cut (rounded corners).

Match those cards against the ones posted in above thread 168. Bond Bread is on cream white paper stock and the fake card I made paper stock matches the Collectors & Traders Screen Star Subject cards and The Wildman & Son Screen Star Subjects are on Ivory/Beige paper stock.

John

Need help:
 

Could use some help with this one, how about some homework? List the original 48 card Bond Bread set and the career dates of each sports star, When career began and ending, and what years they played for each team. Does anyone know if we have this information on the Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. If so, can you make a list? John

Sticking with the tagline fake:
 

Relevant to our conversation here, there is another post Ted Z posted in.
https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...Bread+packages Ted Z post# 2-Fresh out of the Bond Bread packages, the corners of these cards were always Rounded:

Quote Ted Z: “A 2nd printing of the original 48 cards of the Bond Bread issues 1947 were available in stores in 1949 - 1950. These Square cards were sold over-the-counter in packages of 12 cards each.”

“......Date unknown, 24 of these cards were re-printed (circa 1980, a warehouse find of these cards occurred). These re-printed cards were produced with inferior cardboard stock and are clearly distinguishable from the above two original issues by their "cream-colored" backs.”

The evidence suggests something totally different. The cards sold over the counter in boxes of 12 were being sold circa 1940s-1950s, and they had die-cut corners on bright paper stock. Sold as Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects among others names. There were 4 boxes of 12 cards each, making a 48 card set. Printed and issued by Aarco Playing Card Company. As you know by now Bond Bread did not print their own set of cards, they use Aarco Playing Card company for that. What Aarco did was use some of the exact same images from the 48 card set of Sports Star Subjects, on the Bond Bread cards. They added new images in 1947, (new sports stars), everything stayed the same, except the paper stock; Aarco printed the Bond Bread cards on cream white paper stock, maybe at the request of Bond Bread, but my guess is it was done so you could tell the sets apart.

Understand there were not square cards in the boxes from Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects, they were all die-cut. Stay with me, the exact same set as Bond Bread cards were printed with square corners in 1947: The best evidence suggests by Aarco Playing Card Company. You see they had the rights, license to print the images on the cards. The theory is at the same time Bond Bread approached Aarco to print trading cards; other companies did the same. Aarco printed and produced the square corner cards for handouts / gave away as a promotional item.

What took place was two versions of the exact same set were printed and issued in 1947, one set for bond Bread with die-cut corners, the other set square corner cards were for handouts, by anyone who wanted to promote their business by giving away trading cards. This theory comes from people who had first hand knowledge, people who I talked to personally.

Myth, there is no evidence suggesting a reprint circa 1980s, warehouse find. In fact there is no evidence of any reprint of the Aarco cards we call Bond Bread. The evidence says the warehouse find was printed circa 1947 (as handouts). It is believed they were stored away, and Aarco would sell set of cards to the companies who would purchase handouts from their stock of cards, somehow this stock of cards found there way to a warehouse in New Jersey only to be discovered in 1980 by David Festherg: If that is were he did discover the cards, many questions about how and when David Festherg discovered the cards.

The two original issue sets Ted Z was talking about (1947 and 1949) one 1947 issues had round corners and 1949 issues had squared corners; according to Ted Z, and both were printed on cream paper stock. NO! Totally wrong, only the Bond Bread cards were, the Sports Star Subjects cards were printed on bright white paper stock with round corners. On top of that…only Bond Bread was printed in 1947, as for the Sports Stars card… circa 1940-1950s. Now for the 1980 warehouse find (Festberg) was on different paper stock. In fact all square cards like the Festberg cards were all printed on the same paper stock Ivory/beige, circa 1947. John.

Images below First sets of cards - Bond Bread on top, Sports Star Subjects on bottom. Backs of cards: Left side Bond Bread top, bottom left Sports Star Subjects. Sports Star Subjects top right bottom right Bond Bread. Understand I lasted the backs of the cards in a different order then the front.

This falls into a certain line of thought for me that I have had for a while now.

In the archived thread, someone posted ads in various papers from Aarco that requested card stock from anyone that had it. Now, why would they ask for card stock?

Print cards? Print something......cards?????

This would certainly explain the back color and the stock differences.

B.T.

Please, again I am asking as well here, others that have not yet and that would be kind enough to weigh in here......It certainly would be appreciated.

It is a fair assessment so far that these cards should be catalogued and recognized among collectors and the TPGs. (Again, I ain't sending mine to any of the TPGs, regardless of how this plays out.)

These cards are not orphans, maybe stepchildren, but not orphans.

B.T.

re-post images:
 

First set: Bond Bread on top, Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects on bottom. Second set: The backs of the cards, Bond Bread on top- notice on cream white paper stock. Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects on bottom- notice the bright white paper stock. Third set: The backs, left top Bond Bread, bottom left Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. Right top Bond Bread, bottom right Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. See the difference between the two paper stocks they are printed on.

Round vs squared corner cards:
 

In 1947 the cards we call Bond Bread filled the baseball card void created by WWII. Many of the images on the cards were from before 1947, some of the images are from circa 1930-1946. This is one of many reasons why I changed my mind on how the squared corner cards were issued and in what year. Many of us believed that the square corner cards were issued in 1949, because of the information we had at the time. I did believe at one time that the squared corner cards were issued circa 1949 and were sold in boxes, but the facts have proven this wrong. Mostly I believed this because of what I read in the Ted Z thread posted in Net54Baseball.com.

Now is the time for the old-timers to way in or the people who have talked to them and give the information they may have. Please tell us what you know. I have said repeatedly now that new information has come to the front, that I have found no tangible evidence that the square cornered cards we call Bond Bread were issued in 1949. No tangible evidence the square cards were ever issued in boxes, like the Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. (The cards in these boxes all had round corners).

What I do have is notes…notes where people mentioned that the squared issued cards could have been issued in boxes like the Collectors & Traders, but not one person that I have spoken to has said they collected the squared corner cards in boxes. Only that they remember seeing them around the same time as seeing the Collectors & Traders cards, therefore they assumed the cards came in boxes too.

The thing here is… there is a high probability and possibility that people started seeing the squared corner cards before seeing the round Bond Bread cards that were packaged or inserted into loaves of Bond Bread in 1947. Now this does go against the grain of what people like Ted Z believed. But it is a more logical order of how and when the squared corner cards were issued. It does appear that Ted Z wanted the round cards to be the first issues, but if you go back and read what was said you will find no empirical or tangible evidence for this theory, other than that is what people wanted the narrative to be. But there are people who have said they saw the squared corner cards circa 1947.

For the sake of confusion, let's call the 1947 round and square cornered card the “Main Bond Bread Set”. Some of the other sets associated with Bond Bread were printed and issued before 1947. Yes, there were other sets associated with Bond Bread that were issued circa 1949-1950, but none of them were from the main 1947 sets. I understand that it would be possible to take the 1947 main Bond Bread sets and reissue them circa 1949-1950s or later, but there is no proof that there was ever a reissue of 1947 main Bond Bread cards: in any form or time. On the other hand, we have first hand knowledge for the issuing of the main Bond Bread cards circa 1947, information gathered through direct collecting of the cards.

What we do know is that the Bond Bread cards inserted into loaves of bread were more an East coast regional issue of cards. Whereas the squared corner cards we call Bond Bread were more a nation issue. Think about them as you would S&H Green Stamps. For those of you who don’t know-S&H Green Stamps were a loyalty rewards program that allowed customers to earn stamps at participating retailers. The stamps could be collected in booklets and redeemed for products from the S&H catalog. This program became popular nationwide.The squared corner cards were kind of like that, retailers would give them out, they were distributed as part of a rewards program to customers.

Customers would receive the cards at the checkout counter of supermarkets, department stores and gasoline stations among other retailers. All information points to Aarco Playing Card company, as the company that offered the cards to retailers. This is why we can not find a single issuer of cards but many different issuers of the cards. This is why people say they receive their cards from many different retailers. Retailers had a choice of subjects to choose from, Sports Stars, Cowboys, Hollywood Screen Stars, cards were all offered for sale by Aarco Playing company as a loyalty rewards program for retailers: and the evidence is that the loyalty rewards program cards were all printed with square corners. Yes, other cards were offered for sale in boxes or sheets but they had round corners or were perforated cards. Hence the square corner and round corner cards. John

Keith H. Thompson post #27
 

Keith, your post deserves an update. I stand by the hot of the printing press response. But you made a very good point, which had me looking into, can we tell the difference between the squared cut cards. Meaning the cards we call Bond Bread and the Festberg cards. With new information I have to say no. I went by the information provided by the Ted Z post, but as I continue to research and investigate the Bond Bread card set, I have found that not everything in that post can be taken as gospel. Thanks to you we can have this conversation. John

Damn good write up John. From the information you have gathered and continue to gather, you are certainly building the gap for these cards. And frankly, this has been the best explanation to date.

Others may have a difference of opinion and I encourage them to weigh in here. But, I truly believe you are onto the fact that Aarco printed them and distributed them to any and all that bought them. It makes the best sense so far.

Regards,

Butch Turner

The story of - a David Festberg may be fake.
 

The story of - a David Festberg warehouse find of Bond Bread cards in the 1980 may be a made up story:

David Festberg, a very noted (and colorful!) collector and dealer of Baseball cards from Brooklyn, New York, who was extremely active in the hobby for several decades. In the 1980 he muddy the waters around the Bond Bread cards.

But to tell you the truth there is not much known about David Festberg. There is as much controversy around him as the Bond Bread cards.

I did find this article: UPI Archives March 5, 1981-By ED LION. This article talked about David Festberg.
“And By The Way ...High-stakes baseball card dealing: 'Like the stockmarket”

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1981/03...7114352616400/

The article starts out, “Thousands of baseball card collectors of all ages, from as far away as California and Canada, spent a recent weekend feverishly trading cards at the Creation Baseball Convention.”

It then must have interviewed David Festberg, It says that David Festberg was 29, a Brooklyn postman and one of the thousands of avid card trader at the convention.

“I collect them for fun, but for many it's a business with big bucks,” said David Festberg, 29, a Brooklyn postman and one of the thousands of avid card trader at the convention. Festberg, who in his free time runs 'The Baseball Hobby Shop,' a store featuring baseball cards and other such memorabilia. Festberg is only one of an estimated 250,000 avid baseball card collectors in the nation.

Many people said he was a character and hard to deal with. But he did put his mark on the Bond Bread cards. And maybe not in a good way.

The threads below are before the Net54 baseball.com: forum we have now. This is two years before Ted Z posted in Net54baseball.com in 2009, his now famous thread: 1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards ?

Oct 30, 2007#31- Tapatalk Net54VintageBaseballCardForum. Ted Z.

“One of the earliest available Post-WWII baseball card sets is the 1947 Homogenized Bond Bread issue. The 48 black and white cards in this set were found inserted in loaves of Bond Bread. And, in order to
package these cards inside the bread loaves, their four corners were die-cut beveled (or ROUNDED). This set includes major rookie (or 1st) cards of Yogi Berra, Gil Hodges, Ralph Kiner, Stan Musial, Jackie
Robinson and Bobby Thomson. Major Stars include Joe DiMaggio, Bob Feller, and Ted Williams. Since 33 players (of the 44 BB cards) in this set are from NYC and Boston teams, this set is thought of as
a regional issue; however, Bond Bread was marketed nationwide and these cards were available as far west as St Louis.
A controversy has existed in the hobby regarding the very available SQUARE corner versions of these original cards. My findings are....The ROUNDED cards are the real originals printed and issued in 1947....and they are tough to find. The SQUARE cards fall into two categories...... (1) A second printing of only 24 of these BB cards was done when the manufacturer issued a Movie Star set sometime in the 1950's.
(2) These same 24 BB players were again REPRINTED on inferior cardboard stock (date unknown, but before their big FIND in the early 1980's). In any event, the SQUARE cards are not to be regarded as the original 1947 issue. However, Grading Cos. are grading them and erroneously labeling them as "1947 Homogenized Bond Bread".

Buyers beware....these SQUARE cards are not the real "rookies".
TED Z”

From Tapatalk - Net54VintageBaseballCardForum- Mar 23, 2009#8:

“At some point a quarter-century or more ago Festberg either acquired or decided to sell something he was holding onto for a long time: a set of black-and-white Homogenized Bread cards that featured Brooklyn Dodgers for the most part, as I recall. He sold either the whole set (24 cards or something) or the Jackie Robinson individually, as I recall. Festberg was a major player in the early days of the modern collecting (post-Topps monopoly) era, but when I hear David Festberg, I think” "Homogenized Bread."

Did you notice no mention of a warehouse find of cards. What does it say: “either acquired or decided to sell something he was holding onto for a long time: a set of black-and-white Homogenized Bread cards.”

Then there is this, posted From Tapatalk - Net54VintageBaseballCardForum Oct 30, 2007#33- by Ted Z.
“I asked David this back in the early 1980's (when he was involved with the warehouse find of these cards); but, I don't think he had a clue. The last time I saw David was several years ago at the Ft Washington Show. Does any one know where he is, lately?” TED Z

I wonder what the heck Ted Z was talking about when he said, “I don't think he had a clue.” It sounds like Ted Z was saying David Festberg did not know anything about a warehouse find. What did Ted Z know about the Festberg cards that he never posted in his now famous thread.
There is this theory that David Festberg never found a warehouse find of Bond Bread cards, it was just his stash of cards he had acquired in some unscrupulous manner. The warehouse find story was made up to cover up the truth. The story goes like this: in the 1980, David Festherg discovered Bond Bread cards in a warehouse in New Jersey. But there are now many questions about how and when David Festherg discovered the cards, if he did discover the cards at all.

There is no evidence of a warehouse find, but talk. Many people now believe that story is a myth to cover up where David Festherg did get the cards. We are to believe that the cards were put up in a New Jersey warehouse until David found them. We are to believe that the square Bond Breads cards were from the handouts Aarco printed. Do you believe that Aarco would pick a warehouse in New Jersey to hold the cards when they were in Chicago. What sense would it make for Aarco to hold their stock of cards in New Jersey and sell them to retailers out of that location.

Think about this: It is believed they were stored away, and Aarco would sell sets of cards to the companies who would purchase handouts from their stock of cards, all that stopped circa 1960s. Then somehow this stock of cards found there way to a warehouse in New Jersey only to be discovered in 1980 by David Festherg:

None of this passes the smell test: What does the above article say? Net54 baseball.com: From Tapatalk - Net54VintageBaseballCardForum- Mar 23, 2009#8: “At some point a quarter-century or more ago Festberg either acquired or decided to sell something he was holding onto for a long time: a set of black-and-white Homogenized Bread cards.

There was no talk about a warehouse find in 1984. In fact by Ted Z there was talk about a warehouse find in 2007. So when did the warehouse find become talk…It appears around 2007, the time of Ted Z post:

What does this mean for collectors, that the waters are muddied around David Festberg. The muddied waters suggest all kinds of theories. None more annoying than a 1947 or later printing of the squared corner cards.
But we have proof that both the squared corners Bond Bread cards and The David Festberg cards were printed in 1947. As for the rest we will just have to wait and see if any new information comes forward. What story do you believe? The warehouse find, or, that he acquired or decided to sell something he was holding onto…viva acquired in some unscrupulous manner.

But wait… you know who else was selling square corner cards around the same time as David Festherg? The Baseball card society and thanks to butchie_t we know what they were offering. Butch was kind enough to provide scans of his cards and the letters he received from BCS. There might be a clue as to where and how David Festherg was selling his cards. My theory is he did not find them in a warehouse or acquired them in an unscrupulous manner, he purchased them from a widow's dealer who had a big collection- no colossal collection of square corner cards we call Bond Bread. More to come, John.

Sgc
 

Is it true that SGC is grading square Bond Bread cards again? John

But wait… you know who else was selling square corner cards around the same time as D
 

But wait… you know who else was selling square corner cards around the same time as David Festberg? The Baseball card society (BCS) and thanks to butchie_t from net54baseball.com we know what they were offering. Butch was kind enough to provide scans of his cards and the letters he received from BCS. There might be a clue as to where and how David Festberg was selling his cards. My theory is he did not find them in a warehouse or acquired them in an unscrupulous manner, he purchased them from a widow's dealer who had a big collection- no colossal collection of square corner cards we call Bond Bread.

I believe there is a tie in between the Festberg find and the BCS cards. I kind of let the cat out of the bag…”widow’s dealer”. Let’s read from some of the letters from BCS that Butch provided: It says that BSC was offered a limited number of the very famous 1947 Homogenized Bond baseball card set. It describes the Bond Bread set, and then it says, all the baseball cards that weren’t put in bread packages were stored in a dusty warehouse, and quite literally, forgotten about when they went out of business. Many years later a famous collector discovered the cards in a warehouse and snapped up all the cards, how many it does not say, maybe 70,000 cards. but properly less.

This is just a guess, there is no real proof of how many cards there were. I have based this on press production and the paper shortage at the time and the population of baseball cards printed circa 1947. Because of the paper shortage at that time, Aarco would not take a chance on a large production of cards (population) of printed cards. For those of you who did not know - the total population of a set of baseball cards…is the total number of cards that were printed. For example the total population of 1947 Bond Bread Jackie Robinson baseball cards was 328,592. Today the number of baseball cards produced each year (population) is about 1 to 2 million.

Let’s say they wanted to print 10,000 sets of 48 cards. It would take 10,000 sheets of paper to print 48 cards to a set for a total of 480,000 cards total. I believe it would have been less than that, say 5,000 cards set of 48 making 240,000 cards. That would take 5,000 sheets of paper. Few baseball cards were produced in the mid-1940s -1950s due to paper shortages during World War II. 240,000 cards would have been alot of cards. Production resumed in the United States in 1948, with the Bowman Gum and Leaf Candy Company releasing cards.

Now pay attention to what the BCS letter says: Ironically- he died (the dealer) a few months ago and his widow offered us (BCS) the card sets that remained. This was circa 1980s. What does it say, “offered BCS the cards that remained.

Sounds like a familiar story, warehouse find, but it ends there. Notice it says the find was by a famous collector- who snapped up all the cards. Sounds like he purchased the cards circa 1950s-1960s. The collector did not just find them sitting around, he discovered Aarco had the cards in a warehouse and offered to buy them. More or less he purchased them from Aarco and when he died circa 1980s his widow put them up for sale. Who was there to snapped up the cards, David Festberg and BCS.

It is believed that Festberg had about 20,000 cards, no clue as to how many BCS had, but I would believe no more than 5,000 - 20,000. Ok let's say David Festberg did buy his cards from this widow, notice it says BCS brough the cards that were left.

I think the story behind a David Festberg warehouse find comes from this story. Something else to look at is the BCS letter says-the 1947 Bond Bread set was printed for only one year, contained 48 cards in all. And that they purchased the best of the set- 24 cards in all from the dealer’s widow. The story of the Festberg cards having 24 cards to its set -come from this story as well. I believe that a famous collector brought all the Aarco cards with square corners and when he died his widow sold most of the cards to David Festberg and BCS brought the remaining cards.

Therefore the BCS and Festberg cards are the exact same cards as the 48 card set printed at the same time. This explains why they are both on the exact same paper stock. Some believe that the BCS images of 24 cards are the same on the Festberg, but we do not have a true list of names for the Festberg cards, they could easily be any of the 48 card set. We do not know how many of the 48 cards Festberg had in its set. It could have 24 ,48 or any number in the set.

We need someone who knows, someone who purchased a whole set from David Festburg to speak up. If he did sell a whole set or just individual cards. John

When the squared corner cards were issued.
 

Understand there is a more logical order of how and when the squared corner cards were issued. It does appear that Ted Z and others wanted the round cards to be the first issue, because they did bend the truth to fit their agenda. This investigation has shown that there is no empirical or tangible evidence for this theory, other than that is what people wanted the narrative to be. We have empirical and tangible evidence that the square cut cards were circa 1947.
What is that evidence? People who have said they saw the squared corner cards circa 1947. Yes, people like Ted Z said, they saw the cards in 1949, but that does not mean an issue date of 1949. That is probably when they did first see the cards, and that is the problem. Just because these people did not see the cards in 1947 does not mean they were issued in the year they saw them (1949). If they were the case, Bond Bread did not come out until the 1960, because that is when I first saw one.

For the sake of confusion, just for now - let's call the 1947 round and square cornered card the “Main Bond Bread Set”. Some of the other sets associated with Bond Bread were printed and issued before 1947. Yes, there were other sets associated with Bond Bread that were issued circa 1949-1950, but none of them were from the main 1947 sets. I understand that it would be possible to take the 1947 main Bond Bread sets and reissue them circa 1949-1950s or later, but there is no proof that there was ever a reissue of 1947 main Bond Bread cards: in any form or time. On the other hand, we have first hand knowledge for the issuing of the main Bond Bread cards circa 1947, information gathered through direct collecting of the cards.

What we do know is that the Bond Bread cards inserted into loaves of bread were more an East coast regional issue of cards. Whereas the squared corner cards we call Bond Bread W571 were more a nation issue. Think about them as you would S&H Green Stamps. For those of you who don’t know-S&H Green Stamps were a loyalty rewards program that allowed customers to earn stamps at participating retailers. The stamps could be collected in booklets and redeemed for products from the S&H catalog. This program became popular nationwide.The squared corner cards were kind of like that, retailers would give them out, they were distributed as part of a rewards program to customers.

Customers would receive the cards at the checkout counter of supermarkets, department stores and gasoline stations among other retailers. All information points to Aarco Playing Card company, as the company that offered the cards to retailers. This is why we can not find a single issuer of cards but many different issuers of the cards. This is why people say they receive their cards from many different retailers. Retailers had a choice of subjects to choose from, Sports Stars, Cowboys, Hollywood Screen Stars, cards were all offered for sale by Aarco Playing company as a loyalty rewards program for retailers: and the evidence is that the loyalty rewards program cards were all printed with square corners. Yes, other cards were offered for sale in boxes or sheets but they had round corners or were perforated cards.

We do know that Bond Bread had a rewards program or say free promotional giveaway with their D 302 Jackie Robinson set. The 13 cards that make up the 1947 Jackie Robinson Bond Bread set were available for free at grocery stores and other distribution methods. See ad from the August 19, 1947 Baltimore Afro American Newspaper, it seems to back this up. See the promotional ad that says: Free offer! Your grocer will give you a pocket-size reproduction of this Jackie Robinson photograph free for the asking. Get yours today.


Although the square cut cards W571 set, has long been believed that they were promo cards, like the D302 from Bond Bread, there is no proof for Bond Bread being the distributor. All information suggests Aarco was the seller and manufacturer of these cards. Aarco would sell the W571 square set to any retailer who wanted to distribute the cards. We understand that the D305 set of Jackie Robinson Bond Bread cards was an East coast regional promo issue of cards. Whereas the squared corner cards we call Bond Bread W571 were more a nation promo issue for any business to use. The W571 set includes all square cut cards like the David Festberg warehouse find of Bond Bread cards in the 1980s, and the BCS sets offered in 1988.

Jackie Robinson D302
 

Thanks to Shaun Fyffe, (net54baseball,com member: CharleyBrown). Who had put in a lot of hard work and research into the release date and distribution methods of the D302 Jackie Robinson Bond Bread set of 13. Who posted his findings on net54baseball,com.

https://www.net54baseball.com/showpo...51&postcount=1

We now know that the D302 set of Jackie Roblnson cards were issued in several different years, According to Mr. Shaun Fyffe and his research - the cards were issued in 1947 -1950. The above post gives a lot of facts and it is worth looking at, too much information to digest here. But I do want to point out some of the great research on what Mr. Fyffe did discover about how the cards were distributed, and where they were distributed.

“The Portrait – Facsimile card was given out in stores as a promotional item in 1947, and that is why there are so many more copies of that card in comparison to the others. We do not have enough information to determine how the other cards were distributed, though I have tracked down one card with the name of a small grocery store written on it. I am not sure if the writing was done by the store owner, or by the recipient of the card as a means to identify where he/she got it from. If the writing was done by a store owner, it is possible that the card was also given away as a promotional item, and it was not actually packaged in the bread itself. Perhaps the card was given away with the purchase of bread, though not actually inserted in the packaging? It is hard to tell without any other cards featuring similar writing or stamping. In scouring the archives, the majority of Bond Bread advertisements using Jackie Robinson that I could find were, in fact, from newspapers that targeted the African-American community.” Mr. Fyffe.

“It should be noted that, as early as June of 1947, African-American newspapers in all major baseball U.S. cities began running advertisements promoting Jackie's endorsement deal with Bond Bread, and also the availability of the promotional card. This is quite interesting, as it was initially believed that Branch Rickey would not allow Jackie to sign an endorsement deal until the season was over, as he didn't want it to be a distraction. Come September of 1947, the card's distribution expanded to every major city from Montreal to St. Louis. This Bond Bread set should no longer be considered a regional set for that very reason. As such, the Bond Bread facsimile-signature card should be considered Jackie's true rookie card / first nationally distributed rookie card.” Mr. Fyffe.

It has been assumed that the set D302 was released in 1947, and that the cards were distributed through packages of bread. But we know that the D302 cards were issued in several different years and never inserted in the bread packages. The first card was the Portrait-Facsimile card with the bio back. This card was first seen in Harlem in June / July of 1947, and was distributed by grocery store owners for free. The others in the set were issued in promo packs, with two slices of bread and coupons. John

The right name Arrco
 

All this time I have been spelling ARRCO Playing Card company as Aarco. That is wrong: At the Chicago’s World’s Fair in 1933-34 Arrow Playing Card Co., introduced its new identity as ARRCO. John

Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards
 

Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards? What do these two stories have in common - we cannot believe either of the two stories. For reasons discussed earlier, those two stories does not make any sense to many collectors.

Most of us know the story of David Festberg selling trading cards in the 1980s. Most of us heard he found a stash of Bond Bread cards in 1988. But we have reason to believe the Festberg warehouse story is a rumor.

Most of us know that BCS sold Bond Bread cards in the 1980s. BCS is said to have purchased their cards from a widows dealer. Is that a true story? Can we trust what BCS said in a letter about the cards they had for sale?

When questioned by Ted Z, Festberg acted like he knew nothing about finding a stash of Bond Bread cards in a warehouse, we have other reasons to believe that there was no warehouse find by David Festberg! The BCS letters are not without their share of controversy. Stanley Apfelbaum was a hustler, and a person of questionable character. A little bit of background, “The Baseball Card Society” was founded in 1988 by Stanley Apfelbaum as a way to sell baseball cards to subscribers for a fee, of course plus shipping and handling. Stanley Apfelbaum, a former numismatist of telemarketing fame. Although Mr. Apfelbaum is no longer with us; his reputation for boiler room tactics, altering coins, and frankly ripping off investors in the coin world still is.

While we can not say that BCS was a scam, it was not as truthful as could have been. Mr. Apfelbaum told some truth in his promotional letters, but much of what he had to say was just hype or a flat out lie to sell baseball cards. As for the Bond Bread cards, he added a lot of hype to sell the set for more money then they were worth at the time. But much of the hype was fact, the facts were just embellished.

It is almost certain that Mr. Apfelbaum did buy his cards from a big time widows collector. But he did not buy the best of the best, a 24 card set out of a 48 card set, he brought what was left. It was just hype to say BCS purchased the best of a 48 card set, 24 in all. The BCS cards were not cards left over that did not make it into Bond Bread loaves of bread, just more hype and a lie. The cards were not from Bond Bread 1947, but they were from 1947.

I did try to figure out who was that big time dealer who passed away and their widow sold off the collection. I had no luck, but I will keep looking. Sadly I believe that information is lost.

Many of the hobby’s pioneers came to mind. Jefferson Burdick who was on a different level then everybody else. Jefferson Burdick a collector of printed ephemera, he is best known for collecting trading and baseball cards. Burdick is often considered to be the greatest card collector in history,and has been called "The Father of Card Collecting. He started The American Card Catalog, otherwise known as the ACC. He died in 1963. But Burdick donated his entire collection to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York in 1947. Writing in 1948, he stated his belief that it should be "a national collection belonging to everybody.

Then there was Larry Fritsch- but he died December 8, 2007. How about Renata Galasso, but she was a woman- also still alive. Renata was quite a business woman. The story goes that she started putting together sets and selling them as a way to pay for college in the early 70's, and ended up growing the business to the point where she called herself the "Worlds Largest Hobby Card Dealer".

Alan Rosen "Mr. Mint"- died January 24, 2013) was an American sports collectibles dealer who was especially active in the 1980s and 1990s. None of the above could be that famous collector.

More to come: What I have is long, so I have broken it up in parts. The last part may be the smoking gun. John.

The Smoking Gun-
 

The Smoking Gun-

First I have given thought as to when all the confusion around the cards we call Bond Bond became mainstream. It was around 1988 when we as collectors did see more confusion, mayhem, and chaos come to a head around the cards we call Bond Bread. Before 1988 old-timers did not have the cares we do today around the cards we call Bond Bread. So I have tried connecting with these old-times to see what they knew that we do not. I have posted what these old-timers have told me. But I can only say that information has given us only about a 90% understanding of the confusion around the cards we call Bond Bread.
I have been looking for that smoking gun that would give us 100% proof. I believed that proof could come from what Ted Z posted in Net54baseball. But most of what I read did more harm than good. What Ted Z posted in Net54baseball added to the confusion.

(1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards? ) by Ted Z; did cause a lot of confusion. But that post has also given some of the answers… to that confusion. Dave Hornish is just one who posted in Net54baseball, I see this as the smoking gun. It has been there all this time…4/7/2009. I believe that David Hornish post has the answer to most of the confusion around the square cut cards and Festburg cards we call Bond Bread W571., and the BCS cards.

Dave Hornish posted in: 1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards? An article from Sports Collectors Digest, by Bob Schulhof, January 22, 1993. Dave Hornish: “I have been reading this thread with interest and have now scanned a 1/22/93 SCD article concerning the 24 card "subset". Whether or not the author's comments are all true I cannot say but it does shed some light no matter”

Shed some light, that is understated, maybe not when David Hornish posted that statement. But with all the information that has come forward from this investigation that article does confirm what other eyewitnesses have said. For me it is the confirmation that was needed, I now have no problem in saying- the information I have given is 99% correct. More to come. John

Is it just me or has this thread somehow made it even more confusing...?

https://www.net54baseball.com/pictur...ictureid=38285

Jason,thank you for posting. I am sorry to hear that this post has made it more confusing for you. Is there something I can try and clear up…or is it the whole thread. You probably already know this…but the two cards you have posted are cards that were inserted into loaves of Bond Bread and are classified as D 305. Nice cards.

But let's say you did not know, this post would tell you to look at the backs and if there were cream white then you know they were the 1947 cards that were inserted into loaves of Bond Bread. Round cornered (die-cut) cards on cream white paper stock. John.

I was half joking, but I do find it difficult to keep up with these threads when the information seems to jump around all over the place — similar to the guidepost Bond thread by TedZ.

The main points I've gathered from both of the threads...

A — What most collectors would like referred to as 1947 Bond Bread are either:

"1947" Bond Bread Jackie Robinson set... which have different images with square corners and include the iconic portrait/facsimile auto card, but ...
— these were not packaged in the bread and were rather a set of ad/promo cards for the bread cards... and...
— based on some of the images... these did not all come out in 1947...

1947 "Homogenized" Bond Bread cards... the real deal, not the "imposters" as TedZ had put it... with their irregular beveled corners, straight from the bread packages... but ...
— what was the distribution on these cards? Was it a "regional" issue or were these all along the East Coast where it should be considered a "true" RC?

B — What most people are unsure about being referred to as 1947 Bond Bread but are actually:

1947 Sports/Screen Star Subjects... that were similar cards packaged in 4x subset boxes with W.S.N.Y printed [AJ Wildman & Son] on the back of the box... but...
— may or may not have been issued w/ beveled corners, depending on the timeline of the same printer using overflow cards, similar process, etc.

And any other weird/rare/oddball scalloped-edge Elgee and/or dual-sided cards from the same era... that always pop up in these threads, but for the most part are irrelevant to the conversation...

C — What most people do not want referred to as 1947 Bond Bread cards:

Later issued, square-shaped and sometimes larger format Exhibit cards...

D — And of course what collectors are terrified of referring to as 1947 Bond Bread cards:

The "1980s" Festburg "Find"...
— which are not "fake" cards and were most likely to printed around the same time, but a few years later in the late 1940s/1950s (?) as the next run (?) of cards with the same images from the print manufacturer...
— but to be produced for the box sets, not the bread... and on a lower quality paper stock, which then over time became surplus in a warehouse...
— And is likely why PSA no longer grades the card... similar to Star basketball... until it does again

Don't forget the Bond Bread Perforated - unlike the Exhibits, PSA still grades these...if you can find them. I have the Ted Williams Exhibits and rounded corners, but need to find the perforated.

Bond Bread Perforated ?
 

I agree that the Perforated cards are hard to find, when you do find them they come at a premium cost. Although the perforated cards share images with the Bond Breads cards as well as others of that era; the perforated cards have nothing to do with Bond Bread.

The cards were actually issued in sheets by a company called “Elgee” for use by various businesses. The set was advertised as 46 cards to a set. It is not clear how many different subjects were included or sets there were. The set consisted of “Sports-Hollywood-Cowboys”.

Some cards have been found imprinted with store advertising, which appears to be rubber stamped. Issues date circa 1940s. Precise dating for this issue is unknown. But many of the images are from late 1930s-1946. These cards are frequently misidentified as Bond Bread cards, even by third party grading companies and auction houses. John

Part 2: Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get thei
 

Maybe it was not a famous collector at all, but just a collector who heard about the warehouse cards that Arrco had and purchased them. Sounds like hype from Mr. Apfelbaum…to sell his cards…saying it was a famous collector. Mr. Apfelbaum was a master at twisting the truth or embellishing the truth to make what he was selling more appealing. But the story still goes that a collector did buy the warehouse cards from Arrco and when he died his widow sold off his collection of cards, circa 1980s. Interesting this story was around long (circa 1970s) before the story of David Festberg warehouse find and the BCS cards were for sale

David Festberg and BCS were selling W571 Bond Bread square cut cards circa 1988-1990s. The question of where did they get their cards, has us questioning the stories around the Festberg and BCS cards, asking are they the real deal or some trick or scheme to sell cards. The truth is that Festberg and BCS could have been scheming to sell cards, but those cards are the real deal.

We have information that those cards were around and kept by a collector long before the cards were for sale in 1988. -1990s. This collector somehow obtained from a waterhouse boxes of the W571 cards, circa 1960s-1970s And when he died circa 1980s, his widow started selling off his collection. It is now believed that Festberg and BCS did get their W571 cards they had for sale from the widow who put up her husband's W571 cards he acquired from a warehouse. Meaning there was no warehouse find by David Festberg and the story of where BCS did get their cards is mostly true!

All these years and not one magazine article from David Festberg himself, on how Festberg found the cards in a warehouse in 1988. No sports article with Festberg about a Bond Bread warehouse find. There are numerous articles, stories and rumors about Festberg and a warehouse find, but I have found none where he himself tells the story. All the stories I have found are hearsay, meaning someone told someone and that someone wrote about what they heard. BCS tell us where they did get their cards, but has embellished the story on how, saying they purchased the best of 24 cards from a 48 card set. John

Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.
 

I don’t know anything about Bond Bread cards but wanted to share these images that may or may not be present or discussed elsewhere in the thread just because I recently saw them. Ignore, if appropriate.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e3e198f43d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6d4df49370.jpg

bam!

This is big
 

Thank you CardPadre. This is great. I do need time to look it over, Thank you again. It came at just the right time, It fits in with what I am going to write about the smoking -gun. John.

That is an understatement! John

Not sure if it was those exact ones, but I believe the Baseball Card Society documents have been posted before.

The theory then being that the "Festburg Find" was a surplus print run of Series 3 and Series 4 of the Sports Star Subjects boxes... 11x baseball players + 1x boxer in each series...
Which would've been based on the original 48-card Bond Bread set of 44x baseball players, 4x boxers... likely produced by the same print company (Aarco?) and just separated into Series... which would've been the 2nd half of the set...
The Sports Star Subjects may have originally (1947-1948?) been packed with rounded corners that were a way to recycle surplus cards from actual Bond Bread printed cards... but then later (1948-1950?) switched over to square cards, since no reason to clip the corners if not in bread packaging... and then eventually also shifted to lower quality paper stock...
Which that surplus of later printing is what likely became the "Festburg Find"...? And accounts for the difference in paper stock, back color, etc. relative to the "bread-issued" original Bond Bread cards...

Auction photos of intact boxes/sets of the Sports Star Subjects have been posted before. I don't have them saved, but if anyone had them and could post... that would likely be helpful

:eek:


How much more proof is needed at this point. These are Homogenized Bond Bread cards.

Now, how to go about getting the two major card graders to get on board with this information.

Very hard to deny it now.

Thanks CardPadre and HUZZAH to John in dogging this effort.

I stand GOBSMACKED......

Cheers and WOOT!!!


Butch

Collectors & Traders Sport Star Subjects and the boxes they came in.
 

Collectors & Traders Sport Star Subjects and the boxes they came in.

Collectors & Traders Screen Star Subjects.
 

Collectors & Traders Screen Star Subjects.

Thank you for posting these John!

BCS letters.
 

Member butchie_t, did post BCS letters he had and the 24 W571 cards he purchased from BCS, thanks to him we know a lot about the cards BCS offered. The letters from butchie t, were the letters to members to buy the set of Bond Bread cards offered by BCS. We will call them the Original letters.

The letters from member CardPadre were to people who did not purchase the 24 card set. We will call them the second chance letters.

Now member Dave Hornish posted in: 1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards? An article from Sports Collectors Digest, by Bob Schulhof, January 22, 1993.

The three posts have formed what I call the smoking-gun. Which I will be posting soon. But first part 3 of Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards? Thanks for posting. John

Part 3: Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get thei
 

What are we to make of everything said so far? We have solid evidence but not concrete proof that Arrco printed up the cards we call Bond Bread. The facts show us that the set W571- square cut cards were sold to retailers by Arrco, the retailers then use the cards as rewards programs, circa 1940s -1960s. The facts show evidence that a person/collector found some of the W571 sets (squared cut cards), a 24 card set, that Arrco had stored in a warehouse circa 1960s-1970s.

That person was not David Festberg! His story says he found the cards in 1988, and remember nowhere is there evidence that David Festberg told that story himself. I have personally talked to old-timers who say the Festberg story of a warehouse find was made up; Because they knew of a story about a dealer who heard about a stash of cards Arrco had sitting in a warehouse; circa 1960-1970s. This person purchased all the cards in that warehouse; Believed to be from Arrco, 10 to 20 years before the Featberg story. This person’s wife (widow) at his death sold off his collector circa 1980s. Around the time of the Festberg warehouse find. The information we now have suggests that David Festberg and BCS purchased their cards they had for sale from that collector's widow and put them up for sale circa 1988-1990s.

I say concrete evidence because we have people who say they collected these cards (W571) first hand circa 1940s- 1960. And evidence that says the Festberg and BCS cards are the same cards. And we have evidence, although minimal, that Festberg and BCS cards were purchased from a widows collector. And that they are the same cards printed by Arrco circa 1940s. Arrco sold the W571 cards up until the 1960s, when most rewards programs ended by retailers. The cards that were left set in a warehouse until someone discovered them circa 1970s, (the collector and his widow are unknown.)

Does it get any better than first hand knowledge and eyewitness accounts? No! But we still can not say we have 100% absolute proof; Because of people who argued against the proof we have as collectors. These people have given and continue to give their own proof, but as I have proven their proof is suspect and without merit. Therefore we can not say we have 100% proof, but in any court of law, you would get a conviction with the proof given. The facts show us that the people who argue against the proof we now have as collectors, would not stand a chance arguing their case in a court of law. But yet, here we are, and sadly I can not say 100% we have put an end to all the confusion, mayhem, and chaos around the cards we call Bond Bread. The good news is we can say we have at least 90% proof of knowing the truth about the cards we call Bond Bread; With only about 10% of that information is still unclear.

Some of the information that is still unclear: who printed and issued all the different sets we call Bond Bread. The research I have conducted suggest, Arrco was the company that printed all the cards we call Bond Bread, and those cards were distributed by many different methods and companies. There is some inconclusive evidence that suggests otherwise: I should not say evidence, but more a theory that there were other companies that printed some of the cards we call Bond Bread.

One theory is that the 1947 Bond Bread insert cards, and the round and square corner cards of the Sport Star Subject sets and the Screen Star Subject sets were manufactured by the Meyercord Co. of Chicago. I have found no proof that Meyercord Co. of Chicago, had anything to do with printing up trading cards. The facts are simple: the Meyercord Company in Chicago was not a commercial printing company, but rather a company that printed advertising signs and decals.

Not so fast: What about the 1952 Baseball Star-Cal decals set? Yes, the Meyercord company did print the 1952 Star-Cal Decals Basics set; but they were not printed on paper stock as you find with baseball cards, they were decals…not trading cards. These were decals that would adhere to a surface with the addition of water. Meyercord company offered several different ideas for collectors. These could adhere to mirrors, walls, lunch boxes, books, lockers, furniture, trays, lamp shades, and several other items.

While the backs of the packaging explained the concept, it was the actual decals that were the feature. The decals featured all sorts of Major League Baseball Players and the set had various stars. The biggest are Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays, but also found here are Jackie Robinson, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Yogi Berra, and many more. While most collectors think of the Mick’s 1952 Topps card, his 1952 Star-Cal Decal is much rarer.

Other information that is still unclear- where did the images for all the trading cards come from, and who had the rights to them. Some of the images were from ACME Newspicture Service, others were from Team Photo Packs sold in ballparks and wire photos were even used, some of the cards came from movie studios.

As I was writing up the very pages you just read, I found what could only be called the smoking-gun. At least for the W571 cards we call Bond Bread. At the same time I found the smoking-gun, a post was posted on Net54baseball.com by member CardPadre…that is inline with what I call the smoking-gun. John

Below the 1952 Star-Cal Decals Basics set.

The Smoking-gun:
 

I call this a living breathing post, (“Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy”), for those of you who do not know, I started this post from my notes, and posted what I and others had posted about the cards we call Bond Bread. As new information comes in we can change our minds about what we thought was fact, or new information can be posted that backs up the facts we have.

My post on: “Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards?” is a perfect example of what I'm talking about as this post being a “living breathing post”.

As I was writing up the post (“Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards?” ) from my notes on BCS letters from member butchie t - I saw a note I made that said read post #40 from 1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards?

The note said: “It has information about who did find a warehouse of Bond Bread cards, it appears it was not David Festberg”. It was a post by member Dave Hornish- he posted an article from Sports Collectors Digest, by Bob Schulhof, January 22, 1993. That post by Hornish, was what I was writing about at the time.

When I read that post…I believed that David Hornish posted the answer to most of the confusion around the square cut cards and Festburg cards we call Bond Bread W571., and the BCS cards. I said to myself this could be the smoking-gun, it has been there all this time.

It just so happened as I was writing about BCS and David Festberg…member CardPadre posted a letter from BCS that I saw as the second part of the smoking-gun. These letters from butchie t, (BCS), the David Hornish Sports Collectors Digest article, and the BCS letters from CardPadre make up what I call the smoking-gun and those three post back up the 3 part post “Who did find a warehouse with Bond Bread cards in it? Where did BCS get their cards?”

How much more proof do we need at this time on the W571 square cut cards? They are circa 1940s and were printed by Arrco in a 48 card set. BCS and David Festberg are the same cards that were printed by Arrco circa1940s. There was a warehouse find, circa 1960-1970s, but not by Festberg. BCS and Festberg did sell a 24 card set of the W571 cards 1988-1990s, but it now appears that they brought their cards from the widow of the person who found the W571 - 24 card set in a warehouse. John

Set identification
 

As I have gathered information and facts on Bond Bread cards, it seems like the controversy could be cleared up. So why after all these years do we still have misinformation and controversy surrounding Bond Bread cards? One answer that was obvious from the posts on Ted Z post; Card set identification was the cause of much confusion. Think about it…How do we as collectors identify cards we collect? Through reference books. Two of the best books we use as collectors for reference; The American Card Catalog and the Standard Catalog of Vintage of Baseball Cards we use to organize our collection has had a hand in that controversy around Bond Bread cards.

(ACC) The American Card Catalog - a reference book that catalogs and organizes American trading cards produced before 1951. Which is considered a classic collectors' guide and is often referred to as the "bible" of card collecting.

The Standard Catalog of Vintage of Baseball Cards, a price guide that provides a comprehensive guide to Baseball cards. Collectors use its many listings as the standard listing for baseball cards. The Standard Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards, said its own listings rely heavily upon card set identification which originated in the “American Card Catalog”.

Therefore, we can blame some of the confusion on the catalogs and reference books we as collectors use to organize our collection. As I said, two of the main books (The American Card Catalog and the Standard Catalog of Vintage of Baseball Cards), used in collecting trading cards are in part responsible for much of the controversy that has developed around Bond Bread and its cards. Now don’t get me wrong…we could not understand half of what we know without those catalogs. But I and others believe that an update is due in the way those catalogs identify some cards and not just Bond Bread. For us who collect Bond Bread cards, the main question for those catalogs: should cards that were never inserted into loaves of Bond Bread be called Bond Bread cards?

According to The American Card Catalog and the Standard Catalog of Vintage of Baseball Cards, it appears to be yes: It does seem okay to identify cards never inserted into loaves of Bond Bread or issued by Bond Bread to be called Bond Bread cards. But is this the right way to identify cards? Meaning has the two main catalogs really identify all the cards into the right sets. Does new information call for a change as to the way we as collectors want to identify our cards? Yes, I believe we should change some of the card's identification.

Card set identification is one of the most important things we can do as collectors. Using set identification as the guide then we should make changes to how we identify and categorize what we now call “Bond Bread” cards. All the cards we place under the umbrella of Bond Bread should be placed in their proper category. I believe we can now place many of the cards in their own category that would make more sense in identifying those cards.

Understand one problem with set-identification is there are many other similar looking cards from very different issues that are now identified as Bond Bread. However, we can now identify cards previously identified as Bond Bread cards into different sets, or subsets. Many cards are frequently misidentified as "Bond Bread" cards by collectors, leading to debate all because they look the same, (have the same images) or fall under the category used in the American Card Catalog and the Standard Card Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards as D305/W571 among others.

When it comes to organizing baseball cards, the first step is figuring out how you want to categorize them. Thanks to the American Card Catalog and the Standard Card Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards it is a little easier. Of course there are many methods to choose from. It truly depends on what you’re collecting, why you’re collecting them and what you want to say about them. For many of us classification of baseball cards is based on the categories found in the American Card Catalog (ACC).

The ACC is known for its categorization of baseball cards, but it also catalogs non-sports cards. The book provides reference numbers for sets, such as D305/W571 for Bond Bread. These reference numbers are still used today. Most of you know, the D reference category classification stands for in The American Card Catalog designation for bakery / bread cards.” And “W” The designation for strip cards / exhibits

Therefore, Bond Bread D305 classification in the American Card Catalog is “Bakery”. Bond Bread W571 in the Standard Card Catalog of Vintage Baseball Cards is designation for strip cards / exhibits. That means according to the two catalogs anyway: Bond Bread cards are either Bakery cards, strip cards or Exhibits.

But we now understand the only true Bond Bread cards are D305,D302 and D301. W571 should be called Arrco cards, (previously Bond Bread). Should we change the way we identify the cards we call Bond Bread? John.

A point to ponder:

1950 Topps Hopalong Cassidy cards were also inserted into Bond Bread packs as a P.O.S. bonus. I don't believe they are ever referred to as Bond Bread Hoppy's.

Slight note: The last ACC edition of 1960 has cards through 1959 listed, although a lot of things did not make this edition due to some ambivalence among a couple editors about including so many modern sets.

Here's how the CC presented the various Bond Bread sports issues for ease of reference (note the wide range of dates) and the W571 listing:

Thank you toppcat: A swing and a miss. I totally forgot about Hopalong Cassidy cards. Can you repost the ACC pages? I do not have the dates for W571 pages. Looks like they were cut off. John

Hopalong Cassidy:
 

Hopalong Cassidy: I want back over my notes, looking for anything about Hopalong Cassidy; I do not have much. This is because I just did not Investigate these cards, when I began my investigation into Bond Bread, I was looking for baseball cards that matched photos I had. I probably just ignored them although I did buy a couple cards. All I have is there was some kind of cross-promotion between Topps and Bond Bread that put Hopalong Cassidy cards in bread loaves in most states east of the Mississippi circa 1950. Bond Bread issued three 16 subject series of illustrated labels, plus two additional ones, again with 16 subjects in each, using photographs. There were even albums to hold them. I think they would be Classified as D cards , but I can not say, maybe D305. John

Set identification:
 

There are three sets of Baseball cards that can be called Bond Bread, D305, issued in loaves of Bond Bread 1947, D302 Jackie Robinson 1947-1950 hand out card, D301 Buffalo Bisons 1958 hand out card, And Hopalong Cassidy 1950 issued in loaves of Bond Bread, set identification is unclear but should be a “D” card. John.

That's the entire listing as it turns out for W571, there's no dates. The straggling line underneath is from another set.

Hoppy Bond Bread pack image attached for fun!

I am not too familiar with the ACC catalog, what does- Anon (Arrco, Collectors & Traders.... mean?

Is Barney-Berro-Blackwell,Carnero-Cerdon-LaMotto, Gable-Hope-Henis - the names of some of the players in the set? John

Ball players, boxers, and actors.

Berra not Berro
Lamatta not Lamatto
Gable…. That Clark dude.

and Bob “For Texaco” Hope

; - )

B.T.

Thank you Butch. So where do we get, Strip cards and Exhibits cards under "W" cards, if the cards are Ball players, boxers, and actors. John.

I don't know if it was a promotion in other years but the Hopalong Cassidy cards were included in Bond Bread in the spring/summer of 1952.

Attachment 654555

Thanks Pat, do you know what they are classified under, "D" cards or under move-stars? John

I think that's just the bread end labels.

I think you are right. But how about the cards do they get "D" or "W" classification?

THE ACC- D or W cards?
 

I did some digging into the American Card Catalog, but I am still a bit confused. In the context of the American Card Catalog, "W" designates as strip cards or exhibit cards/postcards. But Jefferson Burdick, the author of the American Card Catalog, originally used this category for "album" cards, which encompassed a broader range. I'm still not sure what that covers.

I look up album cards-"album cards" typically refer to photocards, or small, collectible cards featuring images of the artists, that are randomly included within album packages. So how did “W” get the designates of strip cards, exhibit cards and postcards.

I ask this question because of the Hopalong Cassidy cards. Hopalong Cassidy Bond Bread cards were printed by Topps, not to be confused with Topps Hopalong Cassidy cards: Topps issued their own set of the 1950 Topps Hopalong Cassidy cards. Which had 230 cards in the set and eight print foil cards into their packs. The set is divided into ten different stories. The fronts feature photographs from the show and the backs have descriptions of the episodes. Topps Bond Bread were issued in Bond Bread and had Bond Bread advertising on them.

Anyway, which destination does the Bond Bread cards get, I say “D” because they are Bakery cards. But I have seen them as W cards, which makes no sense. I just do not understand the “W” designation on any cards. This all leads me into my next post. John

I've never seen anything tying Topps to the larger Bond Bread branded Hoppy's. I have to question if that's accurate, although happy to be proven wrong and I may have confused you with how I posted those ACC images.

Side note-The Topps Hoppy's reissued in those Bond Bread penny packs should just be designated R712-2 IMO, they have no additional markings than those from Topps. W571 does not refer to the Hoppy's at all, I posted that in respect of the smaller B&W 24/48 sports card sets. The Hoppy "Ways of the West" cards are D89 (with two different style fronts, one that takes up the entire bottom quarter of the card with a color Bond Bread ad (-a), then the the one style shown above, which is -b) while Hoppy bread end labels are designated as D290-8. I'm not sure about the sizing of D89 in the ACC, described as 2" x 3". That sizing may have picked up the F278-12 Post Cereal Hoppy's, which were color illustrations on cards near that size. There's also the blank backed color Bond Bread branded Hoppy's with facsimile greetings and autograph, that seem to be PC sized, it seems they were a premium offering. Watson's Non-Sports Bible has these as D126 but that was not a listing n the 1960 ACC and I can't find it in Barker's updates, although I only skimmed them just now. NSB does not show sizes for the non-Topps Bond Hoppy's.

"Modern" cards in the ACC, meaning issued since WW2 ended, were often given short shrift in the ACC as most of the editors had disdain for them and they missed many widely available issues, although Buck Barker's Updates from 1960-72 did a pretty good job of picking up the stragglers and in monitoring contemporary sets.

Thank you , toppcat. It’s not about being proven wrong, it is about the facts. It is a fact that you have never seen anything tying Topps to the larger Bond Bread branded Hoppy's. But here are the links where I did find the information.

From: Dave's Vintage Non Sports cards!!
“A very early Topps issue, the 1950 Topps Hopalong Cassidy cards features William Boyd! There are 230 cards in the set and eight rare short print foil cards were also inserted randomly into the packs. The set is divided into ten different stories. The fronts feature photographs from the show and the backs have descriptions of the episodes. A very popular Topps issue.”

From: Dean's Cards! 1950 Hopalong Cassidy: “The 1950 Hopalong Cassidy Set contains 230 cards of the popular cinema & TV cowboy, played by William Boyd. The set was issued by Topps, in two-card panels. Each card measures 2 1/16" x 2 5/8" and is perforated on one side. There are also 8 short-printed foil inserts that are not considered part of the standard set. The cards of the 1950 Hopalong Cassidy set tell 10 different stories, which are easily differentiated by the color of the scene.”

From: The Topps Archives!
Then there was the massive cross-promotion between Topps and Bond Bread that put Hoppy cards in bread loaves in most states east of the Mississippi. Bond also had Hoppy bread end labels that had nothing to do with Topps:

https://www.gfg.com/nonsports/hopalongcassidy.shtml

https://www.deanscards.com/c/3488/19...U1ZM2V-PxQSMOU

https://www.thetoppsarchives.com/2023/09/

John

Topps Archives is my blog, in fact. I'm a little confused still by your wording on the larger cards but no matter, it seems the ACC and NSB are too!

Yes, I understood - The Topps Archives was your blog, great blog by the way. I was just saying where I did get my information. On the larger cards, I was talking about the cards I have, the blank backed color Bond Bread. I see there would be D126, which measures 3 ¼x5 ½. Question the The Hoppy "Ways of the West" cards that are D89 , were they printed by Toops? I also believe my wording on the larger cards were about the D89 cards. John

I don't think Topps was involved with Ways of the West. Hoppy was one of the most marketed characters at the time and there were dozens, if not hundreds, of licensed products. I haven't found a source for the D126 classification-can you post it as I'd like to add it to my Hoppy files. As noted, I may have missed in the ACC Updates.

All I have is the Dean’s Cards listing: The 1950 Hopalong Cassidy Set contains 230 cards of the popular cinema & TV cowboy, played by William Boyd. Which says the cards were issued by Topps, in two-card panels. Each card measures 2 1/16" x 2 5/8" and is perforated on one side D89 sets. Maybe I am wrong.

As for D216, I do not have the actual listing, just what people have told me. It comes from Watson's Non-Sports Bible, which lists the cards I have as D216. See images below. John

The first images are the D216- the Bond Bread cards. The others are from Dean’s Cards- D89 sets issued by Toops.

I also have this premium printed photo on 20# bond paper that is 7 7/16 x 9 15/16. And stick on decal - I was told they were issued by Topps, but I have no idea if that is true. John

D126-I see the ref in NSB, I think those are the blank-backed premiums. I'm curious where Watson got that ACC number from as the May 1, 1971 Catalog Additions go up to D115, for a set of Federal Sweets Wild Animals and I've not found anything higher in that sequence. Ah, minutiae!

toppcat, You are right, sometimes it’s the trivial details that can trip us up! It is the finer points, take the D216 cards of Hopalong Cassidy I posted; The facts or details for all intended purposes were printed by Topps, but issued by Bond Bread, thereby they are a “D” cards. On the other hand the “W” cards especially the W571 cards have no connection to Bond Bread, you are right that the W571 cards have nothing to do with Hopalong Cassidy cards. But now and then you will see these cards listed as “W” cards. John

I guess I should not say Topps did actually print the D216 cards but licensed them to Bond Bread, I do not believe Topps printed cards in the 1950, I believe Topps used Lord Baltimore Press for most of their printing at this time. toppcat, I defer to you about the printing of Topps cards, I know you know a lot more about this than me. I remember seeing your post, about Printing of Topps Cards Pre-1965. John

"Lone Ranger" cards
 

Forget the "Lone Ranger" cards: Bond Bread did include "Lone Ranger" cards in their bread packaging as part of a promotional campaign. Bond Bread, launched a promotional campaign in the 1940s that included inserting "Lone Ranger" cards into their bread loaves. "Lone Ranger" Cards: featured images and information about the popular radio and television character, The Lone Ranger, and his sidekick, Tonto. I do not know how these cards are classified, but should be "D" cards. Images are from 1997. John

January 15 1989 New Jersey newpaper clipping.

Attachment 654917

Staley Apfelbaum, president of BCS,
 

Thank you Pat R, great work as usual. The BCS letter from butchie_t and
CardPadre and now this newspaper clipping sure proves Staley Apfelbaum, president of BCS, was a hustler and a conman. Although he was good at persuading people into believing something that is not true, there is good news for people who brought cards from BCS:

You can trust that what you have are not fake, he may have tricked you into buying the cards for more money than the cards were worth at the time. That's the con, or deception; That was the hustler in him. Yes he did embellish the truth about the cards, even to the point where he changed his own story to hustler and con people into buying cards from BCS.

The good news is most of his story is true, as I said, he embellished the truth. Stop and think, all good conman use the truth to deceive. I look at it like this; it is like buying a car, the salesman told you white lies to sell you a car, all to get you to pay more money then you could have paid somewhere else, the car is still the same car, you just paid more money then you could have.

Comparing the letters from BCS and the newspaper clipping facts:

All three say the cards are from 1947, we have proof of this, in fact they could have been out circa 1940s.
The cards offered were the ones we call Bond Bread W571, square corned cards type.
The cards were found in a warehouse, yes that is true.
The widow of the person who found the cards put them up for sale circa 1980s. Yes, this is true.
In the warehouse find, there were 48 cards to a set.
BCS only sold half the sets, a 24 card set.

Not a fact- Apfelbaum only saw one complete set, and that set was piece together. There were many complete sets around.
Not a fact-the cards were included in every loaves of bread, the square cut cards were never put in Bond Bread, in fact have nothing to do with Bond Bread.
Apfelbaum said: it was a Real estate broker who found the cards, who owned a former Bond Bread Warehouse, near the Brooklyn Waterfront.
Apfelbaum said: a real estate agent came across the cards and brought them all, notice this person came across the cards, he did not own a warehouse that once belonged to Bond Bread.
Apfelbaum said: A famous collector discovered the cards in a warehouse, and snatched up all the cards.

The joke is on Apfelbaum, because you brought the W571 cards from him, you own a piece of baseball history, and you have a story to tell how you received your cards. I would be more than happy to have brought cards from BCS. If you were one of the people who keep these cards my hat goes off to you. You have what many of us, cannot, yes we can own the W571 cards but not from BCS, that have their own baseball history along with general baseball card history from the W571 card set. John

This thread is pretty amazing. I just went back to make sure I hadn't posted this SCD Jan 22 1993 article before, so here it is.

Sports Collectors Digest, by Bob Schulhof, January 22, 1993.
 

Thank you Toppcat, you did post it in Ted Z thread. As anyone can see the article backs up the proof that has been given for the square cut W571 cards in this thread. I tried to post it, but it was to big or you could not read it, Thank you again it is a great post. I tried to post it in post #186, if you miss that post you should go back and read it. From that post on, most of the posts are tied to the Sports Collectors Digest article. John

Lone Ranger and Bond Bread.
 

Lone Ranger and Bond Bread.
I did a little more digging into the Lone Ranger and Bond Bread. I posted that Bond Bread did include Lone Ranger trading cards into their loaves of bread circa 1940s. I had stated - that I did not know how they were classified, or if they were even classified, but believed they would be “D” cards. I posted this because I had a note; “should the Lone Ranger cards be called Bond Breads? Since they were issued by Bond Bread, it would seem to be a yes, and they should be classified as “D” cards since they were Bakery cards.”

All I had to go on was: My note; Bond Bread, launched a promotional campaign in the 1940s that included inserting "Lone Ranger" cards into their bread loaves. "Lone Ranger" Cards: featured images and information about the popular radio and television character, The Lone Ranger, and his sidekick, Tonto. I believe someone had told me that Lone Ranger cards were inserted into the loaves of Bond Bread. But the only trading cards I found were not from the 1940s, but 1997 from Dart FlipCards Inc. promoting Bond Bread., I believe these are reprints of the originals.

Does anyone have more information on Lone Ranger cards insured in the loaves of Bond Bread. I did find cards distributed by Gum Inc. R83-1, circa 1930-1940s. And Lone Ranger Premiums (R83-2) by Gum Inc. But no cards from Bond Bread. But at the same time Bond Bread was associated with "The Lone Ranger" through advertising campaigns, including a "Lone Ranger Safety Club" and promotional items like pinback badges, as well as a vintage enamel sign. Which have nothing to do with trading cards.

My question…did Bond Bread actually put Lone Ranger trading cards in their bread? Or even given them out as a rewards program- handouts? If not, why would we have reprints by Dart FlipCards? (see images above). In 1997 the Dart Flipcards printed the cards the same year Bond Bread went out of business. I would assume that Bond Bread had them issued. In 1979, Bond Baking Company declared bankruptcy and ceased operations, so would Bond Bread be reissuing Lone Ranger cards, if they did? If they are reissued cards, where are the originals? John.

Is it Bond Bread or Homogenize Bread?
 

I asked this question back in 2021; is it Bond Bread or Bond Homogenize Bread. This was around the time I joined net54baseball,com. Now, I had been reading the forum since around 2010. But I joined so I could ask questions about all the cards we call Bond Bread.

It is the trivial details that can trip us up! Most of the responding posts said, see Ted Z post. The trivial details: I was already reading Ted Z post, that's why I wanted to ask the question. And why I ask it on a separate thread.

My thought process was maybe that’s a way we could tell all the many so-called cards we call Bond Bread apart. Maybe the round corner cards were Homogenized Bond Bread and all the other cards were just Bond Bread. After all Ted Z did call the round corned cards -Homogenized Bond Bread - at least saying they came in Homogenized Bond Bread packages. Many others called the square corner cards Bond Bread (W571) and did not use the term Homogenised Bread.

Since then I have done some digging on my own into the name's Bond Bread and Homogenized Bond Bread. The facts may be a little fuzzy, if you have more information please post.

Bond Bread was a product of General Baking Company. The idea for Bond Bread came from William Deininger, president of General Baking Company at the time the company was producing bread under the name "Superior Bread"

The name Bond Bread comes from the term bond, meaning 'a promise or guarantee of repayment of debt'. The company used the name as a way to say its purity of ingredients were guaranteed like it was home-made bread. (From Wikipedia).

William Deininger, president of General Baking Company, chose the name "Bond Bread" to signify a "bond" or pledge of high-quality ingredients, and the company also promoted the bread as "homogenized" for freshness and longer shelf life. Over the years the company grew through mergers with local area bakeries. By the 1930’s the company became one of the largest bread suppliers in the country producing 1.5 million loaves per day. At the time it was even more popular than Continental Baking’s well-known brand Wonder Bread.

Which begs the question, how many trading cards of the D305 did Bond Bread produce and put inside their Homogenize Bread packages? I used to think it was not that many, but 1.5 million a day. That's a lot of bread loaves to put cards into! Now I understand they did not put trading cards in every loaf of bread made per-day, but ⅓ per-day for 6 months will still be more cards than I believed were printed, POP. That would be 3 million total cards, 48 cards to a set would be sixty-two thousand five hundred sets.

The General Baking Company adopted the name Bond as a way to say the purity of its ingredients were guaranteed just as if it was homemade bread. They also claimed their bread was homogenized which they promoted as making their bread fresher and longer lasting.

Here is where it gets a little fuzzy, I believe the General Banking Company started using the name Homogenize Bread after William Deininger held a national recipe contest in 1915 to award the housewives who sent him the best recipes for bread. He received more than 45,000 responses. He began calling the bread Homogenized, like it was homemade. Most homemade bread recipes sent in, used milk that has been homogenized, a process that breaks down fat globules to prevent cream separation, resulting in a smoother texture and potentially easier digestion for some.

My conclusion: I believe the only two cards they should be called Homogenize Bread are D305 and D302- they seem to be the only cards associated with Homogenize Bread. We can not say all “D” cards are Homogenize Bread cards. Just like we cannot say the W571 cards are Bond Bread. Therefore we cannot use Homogenize Bread or Bond Bread to separate the cards into set “D” or “W” sets, but we can use the terms to describe a particular set of “D” or “W” cards. Like saying: D305 Homogenize Bread. We should say the W571 cards are Arrco squared cut cards previously called Bond Bread and then we can say the Buffalo Bisons D301 are Bond Bread cards. John

Hi John, my friend brought his cards over a couple of days ago so I could look at them again.

One thing that I hadn't noticed the first time was how much they vary in size.

They don't fluoresce under black light so the paper is pre 1950.

The Pafko measures 2 5/16 by between 3 1/2 and 3 9/16
The Sain measures 2 3/16 by a hair bigger than 3 9/16

Attachment 656793Attachment 656794

Thank you Pat: Yes, it is a common theme for the Bond Bread cards to be of different sizes. The different sizes of the "Bond Bread" cards likely stem from variations in the printing and cutting processes. It appears they came out at the same time, except for the obvious fakes. The cards we call Bond Bread- includes various card types, including movie stars, baseball players, boxers, and western stars, some of which might have unique sizes or back designs, the various cards could be another reason for the different sizes. John

I remember when I was in High School, in my printing class- we had a Guillotine- cutter - (no power)- it had a tape measure band, you would move this band to the size, sometimes the band would be off the true size. My first job in printing had to have the cutters calibrated every now and then, and we had two, but they did not cut the same size, its like using a tape measure, they can measure differently; that why you use the same tape measure on precise work, because one could give you a different size. John

Yes a ruler is more accurate than a tape measure. When I mark out my chaulk lines for my tile work I use the 1 inch mark because the ends of a tape measure can get bent or be loose.

Yes, a great way to put it, the cutting of the cards is the same and why there are different sizes. John