Net54baseball.com Forums

Net54baseball.com Forums (http://www.net54baseball.com/index.php)
-   Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions (http://www.net54baseball.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)
-   -   Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=352423)

bk400 09-19-2024 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2461995)
One home run away from a 50/50 season.:eek:

EDIT: Just hit HR #50.

You don't see a box score like that very often.

Lorewalker 09-19-2024 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector (Post 2458396)
I didnt see anyone say championships will be an issue if you want to be an all timer...we heard this about trout..

i know he was on the angels, but the dodgers are one of the top contenders this year..

This year? Dodgers have been top contenders for the last 7 years, at least. They are a completely different team in postseason than they are in the regular season.

Peter_Spaeth 09-19-2024 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2461997)
You don't see a box score like that very often.

What a day.

bk400 09-19-2024 05:28 PM

Yeah. Indeed. 10 RBIs in a game cannot possibly be a common occurrence.

There needs to be a mercy rule in place for the Marlins tonight. Football score.

bnorth 09-19-2024 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2461997)
You don't see a box score like that very often.

Oh my he went 6 for 6 with 3 homeruns and 10 RBI. That is a monster game.

Smarti5051 09-19-2024 05:30 PM

And he tried to stretch his 2nd double to a triple early in the game that was about a step slow. Otherwise, tack on a cycle with the 2 SBs to today's accomplishments.

Peter_Spaeth 09-19-2024 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth (Post 2462005)
Oh my he went 6 for 6 with 3 homeruns and 10 RBI. That is a monster game.

And two steals.

bk400 09-19-2024 05:38 PM

With a few games against the venerable Rockies coming up, I wouldn't be surprised if Ohtani catches Judge.

BobbyStrawberry 09-19-2024 05:43 PM

He wanted to get the drama over with. The guy is on another level.

doug.goodman 09-19-2024 06:00 PM

6 hit 9 inning games are pretty rare...

Peter_Spaeth 09-19-2024 06:09 PM

How many 3HR, 2SB games have there been? That's 5 percent of his season total in one game.

calvindog 09-19-2024 06:14 PM

I actually watched the entire game and he was just incredible. Home run #49 went about 900 feet. Stolen base #50 should have been an out but somehow he snuck a foot into third base after being beaten by the throw.

But as I watched the end of the blowout, the Marlins brought in a position player to finish the last inning. And he gave up Ohtani’s third bomb of the night, #51 on the season. I presume Florida wouldn’t have allowed a position player to throw meatballs to Ohtani if #50 was on the line. At least I hope not. It wouldn’t have been a good feeling to see him get to 50/50 that way.

bk400 09-19-2024 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462022)
How many 3HR, 2SB games have there been? That's 5 percent of his season total in one game.

"Ohtani's three homers, six hits and 10 RBIs all set career highs. The 10 RBIs set a Dodgers record. He became the first player with three home runs and two stolen bases in a game since at least 1900 and the first player since RBIs became official in 1920 with 10 RBIs and five extra-base hits in a game. Ohtani also became the second player since at least 1901 with six hits in a game, including five for extra bases, according to ESPN Stats & Information."

Peter_Spaeth 09-19-2024 07:00 PM

His OPS for the game is around 3.8 lol.

BobbyStrawberry 09-19-2024 07:03 PM

It certainly didn't hurt that he got to face the expert hurler Vidal Brujan.

Peter_Spaeth 09-19-2024 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2462040)
It certainly didn't hurt that he got to face the expert hurler Vidal Brujan.

Nobody is confusing him for Ohtani as a two way player lol.

BobbyStrawberry 09-19-2024 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462044)
Nobody is confusing him for Ohtani as a two way player lol.

That's for sure :D

bk400 09-19-2024 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462044)
Nobody is confusing him for Ohtani as a two way player lol.

I felt bad for Vidal. Speaks volumes about the Marlins to put him out there like that. I mean, he was hitting people, walking everybody. I think if he threw at Ohtani's head, Ohtani could have caught it and tossed it back.

D. Bergin 09-19-2024 07:24 PM

What an absurd stat line. I’ve had games like that in my dreams, where I’m a grown ass man playing for my old Little League team, and I’m wondering why I haven’t been found out about while I’m knocking little kids over with my vicious line drives. :D:D

bk400 09-19-2024 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry (Post 2462040)
It certainly didn't hurt that he got to face the expert hurler Vidal Brujan.

Interestingly, according to ESPN, Ohtani became the first player in major league history with multiple home runs, multiple stolen bases and five hits in a game -- when he was 5-5 with 2HR, 2SB. So before he hit that 55 mph matzo ball that Vidal threw him...

BobbyStrawberry 09-19-2024 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2462055)
Interestingly, according to ESPN, Ohtani became the first player in major league history with multiple home runs, multiple stolen bases and five hits in a game -- when he was 5-5 with 2HR, 2SB. So before he hit that 55 mph matzo ball that Vidal threw him...

Oh yeah, I'm not taking anything from him. You can only hit what's thrown to you...

theshowandme 09-19-2024 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462022)
How many 3HR, 2SB games have there been? That's 5 percent of his season total in one game.


Stathead suggests that’s the first time ever https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...ae24129dca.jpg

jboosted92 09-21-2024 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jboosted92 (Post 2457851)
43/43

A month to go


Well, that was a hell of a month...LOL

jboosted92 09-21-2024 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioCRN (Post 2455861)
Whether he's the best or not, if Ohtani isn't in your top-5 hitters in all of baseball anywhere on the planet I don't know what to say.

MVP caliber hitter. CY caliber pitcher. Unless one wants to pick on Ohtani's ability to pitch 200-ish IP as a pitcher, both stand strong.

Guy is about to hit 40+ homers for the 3rd time in 4 years. He's going to join the 40-40 club. He's recovering from Tommy John surgery while doing it. wtf...

3.01 ERA, 1.08 WHIP over 481.2ip

It's easy to ignore his pitching based on injury, but based on results when healthy it isn't.

His biggest knock is he doesn't play the field and if he did, it would most likely be below average.

Long story short...I've never seen anyone like him in my lifetime with skills this elevated and I'm not sure anyone else here has, either.

He's not a rare player, he's not a generational player, he's only being compared to Ruth because who else are you going to compare a guy with his skill set to that played in 1900+? He's a very unique player.


yup...

Judge isnt even a top 5 yankee of all time ( yet) and people comparing him to what Ohtani has done on Mound and Batters box ( and now on base )...

its pure stupidity, like saying Montana was better than Brady...

STOP..lol

G1911 09-21-2024 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jboosted92 (Post 2462317)
yup...

Judge isnt even a top 5 yankee of all time ( yet) and people comparing him to what Ohtani has done on Mound and Batters box ( and now on base )...

its pure stupidity, like saying Montana was better than Brady...

STOP..lol

WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

Peter_Spaeth 09-21-2024 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2462363)
WAR
Judge - 51.2
Ohtani - 42.5

They are both incredibly good, but the dichotomy where one must be put down to lift the other one doesn't make much sense to me. Who knows where they will end up, but both are rare talents who are delivering astounding performances to enjoy.

And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

packs 09-21-2024 12:36 PM

I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

Peter_Spaeth 09-21-2024 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2462396)
I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

Not only that, there is absolutely nothing not to like about him.

BioCRN 09-21-2024 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2462396)
I’m surprised Judge doesn’t get more love from the vintage crowd. Right now he’s as close as it gets to the golden slugger of old, who could mash and hit 300 at the same time. Feared by every pitcher on earth. Putting up 130+ RBIs. Those are golden age Foxx, Gehrig, Greenberg numbers.

He should get love as a player. He's an oldschool stoic giant who does everything well, though his D is starting to decline.

As a card collector he's in the thick of the current era card market being a guy who has over 2000 "rookie card" issues in 2017 (counting all variations). Want a low-number? Tons of options. Auto? Tons. Low-number and auto? Tons.

The pure saturation era of obvious stars kinda kills excitement of having a RC of some guys even if there's still decent value attached to it. Guys don't have a "cool" RC, they have dozens of them.

Though he's not a star (except to Cubs fans), in 2014 Kyle Hendricks got his RC...2014 Topps Heritage High Number. It's his only RC and there's not 100 different borders or an auto...just his card. It's not rare card, but it's a rare occurrence in this era to only have 1 card for your RC.

bbcard1 09-21-2024 01:00 PM

I got a few of his Japanese issues.

Aquarian Sports Cards 09-21-2024 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462390)
And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

Let's start by saying, until this Year Judge was CLEARLY the better hitter. This year is very hard to call. But part of the difference over their careers is because DWAR is factored into batting WAR and as a DH his DWAR contributes nothing.

O-WAR to O-War is 46.2 to 27.3 but now factor in plate appearances. Judge has around 800 more so that's a full season advantage over Ohtani.

frankbmd 09-21-2024 03:25 PM

Granted baseball is a game to be seen and a game of numbers (historically counting numbers), but if I asked someone which player of any 2 he liked better and he asked me what their DWARs were before answering, I would withdraw my question and think he was foolish.

The reliance on statistically manufactured ratings developed 60-80 years post mortem doesn't float my boat. Generational comparisons are also inherently flawed. The game is still played with bats on a diamond, but the game in 1920 is not the same game as in 2020.

jingram058 09-21-2024 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd (Post 2462440)
Granted baseball is a game to be seen and a game of numbers (historically counting numbers), but if I asked someone which player of any 2 he liked better and he asked me what their DWARs were before answering, I would withdraw my question and think he was foolish.

The reliance on statistically manufactured ratings developed 60-80 years post mortem doesn't float my boat. Generational comparisons are also inherently flawed. The game is still played with bats on a diamond, but the game in 1920 is not the same game as in 2020.

+1,000,000 on this ^^^^^ Well said

bk400 09-22-2024 05:43 PM

So I leave Ohtani to focus on the Mets for three days, and now the guy is now at 53-55? With three more games left against the Rockies, he might end up closer to 60-60 than 50-50 by the time the regular season is over. It's staggering.

I will root for Lindor to win the NL MVP, but from a clinical, dispassionate standpoint, I am begrudgingly sympathetic to the argument that Ohtani should win it.

Peter_Spaeth 09-22-2024 06:15 PM

Ohtani will be unanimous. He may get every second place vote too. Meanwhile, Judge with 55, what a season.

bk400 09-22-2024 06:21 PM

A Yankees-Dodgers World Series would be epic. But I'm not sure the Dodgers make it with their pitching.

Peter_Spaeth 09-22-2024 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2462716)
A Yankees-Dodgers World Series would be epic. But I'm not sure the Dodgers make it with their pitching.

Yep. Probably another one and out for Dave Roberts and the Dodgers.

raulus 09-23-2024 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462720)
Yep. Probably another one and out for Dave Roberts and the Dodgers.

Don't get me so excited with these hot takes. Going to get my hopes up, just to have those goons make a deep run and give me the shakes.

Tabe 09-23-2024 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2462390)
And 15 of that 42 is pitching, meaning his batting WAR is 27.5. Not sure why it isn't higher? But it's striking. Barely more than half of Judge's.

Because, quite frankly, Ohtani's first three seasons as a hitter were nothing special. He hit .190 in 2020.

Peter_Spaeth 09-23-2024 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tabe (Post 2462997)
Because, quite frankly, Ohtani's first three seasons as a hitter were nothing special. He hit .190 in 2020.

With a 0 WAR. You wonder how, even in a short season, that was possible for such a great player.

bk400 09-23-2024 11:11 PM

https://www.theringer.com/mlb/2021/3...review-two-way

Article above written in March 2021, before the start of Ohtani's 4-year reign of terror, but after his struggles in 2020. Sounds like he and the Angels put a lot of thought into his regimen. Interestingly, they took away restrictions on his workload, allowing him to actually do more two-way stuff rather than less.

He also started squatting heavy again and came in at 225 pounds in spring training in 2021. I'd imagine that helped a lot, especially after his 2019 knee surgery.

As an aside, Ohtani is still listed right now at 210 lbs, but he looks like he's a lot bigger than that when you see him standing next to Bryce Harper -- who's also listed at 210:

https://x.com/MLB/status/1811061670493511797/photo/1

packs 09-24-2024 09:15 AM

I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

Aquarian Sports Cards 09-24-2024 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2463081)
I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

I would say if he focused on lower body it's a good thing even as a pitcher. I would agree if he's bulking up upper body though.

packs 09-24-2024 10:10 AM

I agree. A strong pair of legs is always good for a pitcher. But you aren't going to throw harder because you lift weights and if anything, it's only going to limit your movement, likely resulting in injury.

Peter_Spaeth 09-24-2024 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2463099)
I agree. A strong pair of legs is always good for a pitcher. But you aren't going to throw harder because you lift weights and if anything, it's only going to limit your movement, likely resulting in injury.

So why so many pitchers using PEDs?

packs 09-24-2024 10:41 AM

It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

Aquarian Sports Cards 09-24-2024 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2463114)
It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

Which is actually the reason McGwire took them. Look at the years before, he couldn't stay on the field. Hell he didn't need more power, he hit 49 home runs as a beanpole rookie. But he was ALWAYS hurt until he started andro and whatever else.

Tomi 09-24-2024 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2463114)
It was my understanding that pitchers benefit the most from the advanced healing aspects of PED use.

I can tell you from experience when I was in my 20's I did a couple of cycles of Decca and testosterone and you don't even feel the muscle the next day after a hard workout. The benefits are absolutely insane. Gaining 15lbs in a few weeks was common. You feel like a whole other level human when you are on it but are quickly humbled when you stop. This was in the 90's, I can only imagine how much better the PEDs are today.

jboosted92 09-24-2024 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomi (Post 2463122)
I can tell you from experience when I was in my 20's I did a couple of cycles of Decca and testosterone and you don't even feel the muscle the next day after a hard workout. The benefits are absolutely insane. Gaining 15lbs in a few weeks was common. You feel like a whole other level human when you are on it but are quickly humbled when you stop. This was in the 90's, I can only imagine how much better the PEDs are today.


yah this is correct, its not that it "makes muscles" its that you can put in 30 hours a week of heavy lifting and not feel it.. lol

calvindog 09-27-2024 05:56 AM

I haven’t seen any mention in the media after last night’s Dodgers game about Ohtani reaching 400 total bases. Just the 30th time it’s ever been done and the first time since 2001.

theshowandme 09-27-2024 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 2463783)
I haven’t seen any mention in the media after last night’s Dodgers game about Ohtani reaching 400 total bases. Just the 30th time it’s ever been done and the first time since 2001.


I just came from Twitter and saw this

So impressive

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2288cd05a6.jpg

calvindog 09-27-2024 06:27 AM

Taking away the steroid guys and the altitude guys and you don’t have much. Seven games ago he was at 360.

rats60 09-27-2024 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvindog (Post 2463788)
Taking away the steroid guys and the altitude guys and you don’t have much. Seven games ago he was at 360.

And Aaron Judge has an OPS+ of 226 and has 392 total bases with 3 games against the Pirates left.

OPS+ Single Season Leaders
Babe Ruth 1920 255
Babe Ruth 1921 239
Babe Ruth 1923 239
Ted Williams 1941 235
Ted Williams 1957 233
Aaron Judge 2024 226
Babe Ruth 1926 226

Throw in the rookie season of Paul Skenes and this is one of the best years for baseball in a long time.

calvindog 09-27-2024 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2463791)
And Aaron Judge has an OPS+ of 226 and has 392 total bases with 3 games against the Pirates left.

OPS+ Single Season Leaders
Babe Ruth 1920 255
Babe Ruth 1921 239
Babe Ruth 1923 239
Ted Williams 1941 235
Ted Williams 1957 233
Aaron Judge 2024 226
Babe Ruth 1926 226

Throw in the rookie season of Paul Skenes and this is one of the best years for baseball in a long time.

Agreed. The Judge OPS+ numbers and total bases are off the charts historically.

D. Bergin 09-27-2024 09:24 AM

Hope they let Judge get to 400 total bases before they decide to give him a rest. Yankees still competing for a 1 seed with Indians (not sure if that matters), so maybe it won't come into play.

D. Bergin 09-27-2024 09:28 AM

Throw in Judge's 133+ walks and 9 HBP, and I'd say that's a pretty good season. He's been on base a bit, despite all those strikeouts. ;)

Peter_Spaeth 09-27-2024 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin (Post 2463824)
Hope they let Judge get to 400 total bases before they decide to give him a rest. Yankees still competing for a 1 seed with Indians (not sure if that matters), so maybe it won't come into play.

He is not in tonight's lineup.

puckpaul 09-27-2024 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs (Post 2463081)
I feel like getting big is the worst possible thing a pitcher could do. If he's going to DH, sure, get huge. But can you think of a single monster bodied pitcher who had any kind of sustained success?

I remember the year Syndergaard showed up at Mets spring training looking like Bane. Everyone lauded his workout routine and all the press was expecting a huge season out of him. Instead he got hurt, missed the next three seasons, came back a shell of himself and was out of the game at 30 years old, having won 59 total games.

Wouldnt you say Roger Clemens bulked up? His head enlarged 3x it seemed.

Aquarian Sports Cards 09-27-2024 08:56 PM

Ohtani putting on a late push for a triple crown too. I had written off the batting title a few weeks ago, only a couple points down now.

bk400 09-27-2024 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2463985)
Ohtani putting on a late push for a triple crown too. I had written off the batting title a few weeks ago, only a couple points down now.

Yes, I just noticed that as well. Looks like it is mathematically possible. After tonight's game, his WAR will be over 9, which I believe is unprecedented for a DH.

Peter_Spaeth 09-27-2024 09:56 PM

35/93 for September lol.

bk400 09-29-2024 07:05 AM

So here's a question -- let's say Ohtani wins his 3rd MVP unanimously. He then gets hurt next year, can't pitch anymore, and then finishes his career with a few .275, 20 HR, 80 RBI seasons -- so something like a career 60 WAR -- is he still a first-ballot lock for the HOF?

Bonds, A-Rod, Trout and Pujols are the only four players with 3-MVPs who are not in the Hall. We know about Bonds and A-Rod.

Pujols is an obvious lock for the first ballot. I think Trout is also a lock based on his career WAR. I'd argue that Ohtani is also a lock based on his peak years plus the uniqueness of his tenure. But I bet there are those who might disagree.

D. Bergin 09-29-2024 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bk400 (Post 2464171)
So here's a question -- let's say Ohtani wins his 3rd MVP unanimously. He then gets hurt next year, can't pitch anymore, and then finishes his career with a few .275, 20 HR, 80 RBI seasons -- so something like a career 60 WAR -- is he still a first-ballot lock for the HOF?

Bonds, A-Rod, Trout and Pujols are the only four players with 3-MVPs who are not in the Hall. We know about Bonds and A-Rod.

Pujols is an obvious lock for the first ballot. I think Trout is also a lock based on his career WAR. I'd argue that Ohtani is also a lock based on his peak years plus the uniqueness of his tenure. But I bet there are those who might disagree.

I’ll go a step further. I think he gets in if he suffers career ending injury today, and never plays again. They’ll pass an Ohtani clause to forego the 10 year rule and vote him in pretty definitively.

Peter_Spaeth 09-29-2024 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin (Post 2464189)
I’ll go a step further. I think he gets in if he suffers career ending injury today, and never plays again. They’ll pass an Ohtani clause to forego the 10 year rule and vote him in pretty definitively.

He's just finishing his 7th year. I think he would get a display but no one is going to lower the requirement by 3 years. Hopefully never comes up.

Did Arraez sit out yesterday after a 3 hit game?

jboosted92 06-01-2025 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jboosted92 (Post 2455689)
I’m sorry - but I will die on this hill

The greatest most complete ball player cards are mostly undervalued

This feels like “Brady cards” after 2004

Guy can’t pitch this year ? Ho Hum - gets a 40/40 here in a couple weeks

OP here :)

forgot to come back after his 50/50

i can now say -- his base 2018 have respect :)

hammertime 06-01-2025 07:09 AM

And he's absolutely obliterating his HR pace from last year. And he should be back on the mound after the ASG. And his stuff looks filthier than ever.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 10:03 AM

The Dodgers do not need him to pitch and if it were my team I would not risk a career or season ending injury by putting him back on the mound. He is killing it as a batter, leave well enough alone.

sbfinley 06-01-2025 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519285)
The Dodgers do not need him to pitch and if it were my team I would not risk a career or season ending injury by putting him back on the mound. He is killing it as a batter, leave well enough alone.

While I agree with this take on the surface, he does specifically choose to bat lefty while pitching righty to minimize the impact arm fatigue or injuries would have on his hitting. Some credence can be given to the effectiveness of this considering he put up a historic all-time offensive season while recovering from Tommy John surgery.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbfinley (Post 2519287)
While I agree with this take on the surface, he does specifically choose to bat lefty while pitching righty to minimize the impact arm fatigue or injuries would have on his hitting. Some credence can be given to the effectiveness of this considering he put up a historic all-time offensive season while recovering from Tommy John surgery.

If he blows out his pitching arm, he isn't batting, he's on the DL and back in surgery. Why risk it when he's arguably the best hitter in the league and you are the best team in baseball with your existing staff?

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-01-2025 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519285)
The Dodgers do not need him to pitch and if it were my team I would not risk a career or season ending injury by putting him back on the mound. He is killing it as a batter, leave well enough alone.

The Dodger's pitching is pretty awful. They can get away with it in the regular season but they're going to need another strong starter come the post season.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2519310)
The Dodger's pitching is pretty awful. They can get away with it in the regular season but they're going to need another strong starter come the post season.

So they can buy one. Why risk the straw that stirs the drink, Ohtani? Besides, playoff baseball is pitching by committee these days.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-01-2025 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519316)
So they can buy one. Why risk the straw that stirs the drink, Ohtani? Besides, playoff baseball is pitching by committee these days.

You're also ignoring the fact that he signed with the understanding that he would pitch. It's always been part of the deal with him.

jayshum 06-01-2025 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519316)
So they can buy one. Why risk the straw that stirs the drink, Ohtani? Besides, playoff baseball is pitching by committee these days.

They can't buy a starter during the season, but they can trade for one. There's a big difference. Instead of just outbidding the other teams with the highest salary offer, they have to have prospects they are willing to give up that another team wants which they may not be able to easily outdo every other team.

cliffyb 06-01-2025 03:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Ohtani has won three MVPs. I think he’s a shoo-in for the Hall given what he’s accomplished.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards (Post 2519352)
You're also ignoring the fact that he signed with the understanding that he would pitch. It's always been part of the deal with him.

If I'm paying him a billion dollars I will tell him where he plays.

bk400 06-01-2025 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519361)
If I'm paying him a billion dollars I will tell him where he plays.

I'm sympathetic to the employer-billionaire employee argument, but I'm also cynical enough to believe that the Dodgers want Ohtani to pitch for a couple of years, even if it shortens his career (and reduces the medium term winningness of the Dodgers). The increase in franchise value for two years of a prime, two-way Ohtani is so massive.

Aquarian Sports Cards 06-01-2025 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519361)
If I'm paying him a billion dollars I will tell him where he plays.

If, when I signed him, I agreed to let him pitch, I would probably stand by that agreement. Nothing has changed since they signed him. Right now the Dodgers are a preferred destination. Piss off a couple superstars and that could change.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 07:30 PM

So he not only makes a billion dollars, he gets to dictate to the ownership and management? :eek: It might piss him off to take him out in the fourth inning too, or to limit his starts. Gee that might not go over well nobody's going to want to go there any more.

jayshum 06-01-2025 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth (Post 2519410)
So he not only makes a billion dollars, he gets to dictate to the ownership and management? :eek: It might piss him off to take him out in the fourth inning too, or to limit his starts. Gee that might not go over well nobody's going to want to go there any more.

If it was part of what the Dodgers agreed to for him to sign with them, then they should honor it unless they can get him to agree not to. Even if it's not written in the contract, if there was a verbal agreement, it should be honored.

Peter_Spaeth 06-01-2025 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayshum (Post 2519412)
If it was part of what the Dodgers agreed to for him to sign with them, then they should honor it unless they can get him to agree not to. Even if it's not written in the contract, if there was a verbal agreement, it should be honored.

Even if it's to the detriment of the team and organization?


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:27 PM.