Any thoughts on this Fangio?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11572688573...Bk9SR5yYw5ekYg

That is a viable Fangio rookie card. I don't know if there was a find or what, but there have been lots of Chocolat L'Aiglon Fangio cards hitting the market over the past year or so. Up until a year or so ago, I rarely seen that card. Lately, both Goldin and eBay have had a steady stream of that card.

Other than some super obscure Fangio cards or discs that will sell for $1,000+, that is just about the earliest mainstream Fangio to have (AFAIK). He does have some other 1952 options, but I think the Chocolat L'Aiglon is the best looking. As for the particular card you linked to, if you are patient, you will be able to pick up a cheaper copy on eBay at auction.

Maybe someone is reprinting them. Happens with soccer I understand. I guess they would tend to be higher grade though if that were the case?

Wow.
https://goldin.co/item/1951-editrice...a-ex-mt-66v194

I don't know, maybe? If that is the case, a lot of them are slipping through PSA and SGC. I know any card can be reprinted, but a Juan Manuel Fangio card just seems like a relatively minimal amount of return if someone was trying to scam.

I suppose that's right. Another card I see a lot of now is the 1990 or 91 Panini Voetball Bergkamp, used to see those only rarely. I suppose the explosion in soccer prices could explain that.

Copies of that Fangio card show up on eBay from time to time at an astronomical BIN price. I don't think I have ever seen one at auction on eBay.

Here is my most recent pick up: a 1965 Lampo Jim Clark. Of all the early Clark options, the Lampo is my favorite. Like most other cards, prices went crazy for a while during Covid. I was happy to pick up this example for a decent price a few weeks ago.

Tough card to find with good centering, nice one. I have to upgrade my 66 Panini to a 65 some day.

I took the plunge and went Top Trumps.

Thanks, Peter. You are right about there being some horrendously off-center Lampo's out there. Clark has a 1965 Perfetti candy card that is also an option.

Why grading these days is a joke. IMO this card should be a 9 or at worst an 8. SGC LOL.

Nice pick up, Peter. Formula 1's history is filled with dominant drivers and teams. But this is really looking like a season for the ages, 10 of 12 wins on the year and the last eight races in a row.

Wonder how many of the new fans that started following F1 in 2021 on the strength of Drive to Survive and a once in a generation title battle have come to the realization that very few F1 seasons are like 2021.

Haha, I got hooked in the 1st couple seasons of "Drive To Survive". They didn't even bother covering the Mercedes team. I was hooked on the edge of my seat wondering if Daniel Ricciardo or Pierre Gasly would finish in the points.

Also, why was Haas so bad at racing, but so damn entertaining on TV? :D:D

SGC tough on Panini's and foreign issues. If there's the slightest dimple or print smudge on the card stock, they're going to nail you for it. :(

...

PSA 5 Petty
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/115887676223

Astonished by this.

Always happy to see this thread get bumped.

I was watching that Petty card, but had not looked to see where it finished. That price is shocking. Even beyond the hammer price, there were four bidders above $1,577 and three above $2,200. :eek:

I wish I had kept all my Petty STPs. At one time, I had three of them. But I sold two of them on here for under $200, which was a fair price at the time. I get it that it is Richard Petty, but I did not see this type of explosion coming in his rookie card. Auctions for 1972 STP cards seem pretty few and far between these days.

A PSA 6 sold in Goldin in 2021, which generally is considered the peak of insanity, for under 1000. I do not get it at all. Pent up demand maybe? There was a defect in his hair too.

I have two of them (only 4s) and I always joked with people that it was the 52 Mantle of miscellaneous sports but maybe there is something to that.

My remaining 1972 Petty is also a PSA 4. I have a complete, 11-card set of 1972 STPs. I have told this story before, but when I was putting together the set, I bought some STP cards off an elderly lady in Connecticut who picked them up originally as they were given away at the STP sponsor table at the 1972 Daytona 500.

Anyway, the woman included a handwritten note along with my cards saying that she wanted me to call her to talk about the STP cards. I felt super weird calling an old woman I did not even know, but she was such a nice lady and was informative about the set. One of the comments she casually made was that she thought her full set of the cards were probably worth about $2,000, and all the value was in the two Fred Lorenzen cards from the set. When I put together my STP set, I didn't feel any huge excitement about picking up Petty cards from the set. My excitement was in finding the Fred Lorenzen white whales that some long-time collectors had chased for over 20 years. The woman I talked with on the phone explained that fans could grab as many STP cards as they wanted that year at Daytona (and few fans were interested) other than the two Lorenzen cards. Those two cards were not available at all.

The Petty STP card has skyrocketed in value over the past few years, yet cards of the second winningest NASCAR driver of all-time (David Pearson) are still worth next to nothing. It is a mystery why Pearson is not in the STP set, yet journeymen like Elmo Langley, Dick Brooks, James Hylton and Charlie Glotzbach are. Pearson doesn't have an iconic rookie card like the Petty STP card.

With regard to the 1952 Topps Mantle of miscellaneous sports cards, I think the 1982 Hulk Hogan Wrestling All-Stars is a great candidate. That thing has exploded in value over the past years, and examples used to sit on eBay forever as BINs for under $200.

The 1983 Dale Earnhardt Uno card is another card that has exploded in value in the past five years. That is his true rookie card, but I really dislike the Uno cards as an option.

I hate the Uno Earhardt. Recent sales all over the map, an 8.5 selling for double a 9?

A miscellaneous card that does not get any recognition is the Karelin 1998 Culture House. Very hard to find one, a great looking card, and depicts arguably the most dominant athlete ever. I think he went a decade without a POINT being scored on him. Not only that, perhaps surprisingly given his appearance, he was an intellectual -- a chess player and student of the arts. He went on to politics.

I remember you talking about the Karelin card previously. You are much more knowledgeable of that card than I am, but I think that card may always be underappreciated because Karelin is Russian. Even before the Ukraine invasion, I think it was hard to show off a Russian who is only known to many Americans for suffering one of sports' great upsets.

Fair points. Nonetheless still an incredible athlete with an almost nonexistent rookie (and only) card -- PSA population 8. You are not exactly going to surf ebay or walk into a show and find one.

Another card and I guess you could argue it isn't sports, but you NEVER see the 2012 FaceChess Magnus Carlsen. Unless you look below of course.

...

Awesome Mario, Peter. The prices on his 1969 Panini have retreated from the Covid craziness. I am on the lookout for a low to mid-grade 1969 Panini Mario.

A couple more stunning STP Petty sales happened on eBay in recent days:

A PSA 6 went for $3,700 on September 5 and a different PSA 6 sold for $4,100 on September 6:

Seems like there is a full-blown STP Petty mania at hand right now. That is why I always think the best answers on what card will increase most in value (percentage wise) over any given time period are usually some under the radar non-sports card rather than an already pricey Ruth, Cobb, Jackie card.

I recently picked up a giant lot of NASCAR postcards and premiums including a run of Petty PCs starting in 1962.

The earliest, a 1962 postcard from Racing Pictorial, shows a 25 year old Richard with his father Lee. It is from a set of Daytona PCs from 1962. That's the lower one shown. The top one is from 1972. I like the inset image, too cool for school. What I did not notice until yesterday was that the 1972 PC is signed at the lower right. Nice vintage ballpoint signature.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img130.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img131.jpg

Are these the two earliest or are there others from the 60s?

I also have a 1969 and 1970 but I didn't scan them yet. I have a run of Petty PCs from 1969 through the early 1980s when they stopped making them and switched to larger format premiums, then a big run of premiums after that. The collection has about 60 Petty pieces and another 75 or so of a few other drivers: HOFers Buddy Baker and Benny Parsons, and a few others. Plus some vintage bumper stickers and promo pieces.

I am going to be selling the collection. Probably gonna keep the early ones for single sales and put the rest into a large lot.

As an aside, at the Anaheim show, one collector came to my table looking for F1 stuff and said he was a very serious F1 vintage collector. Odd thing was, when I started asking him about really old F1 sets and issues, he clearly did not know what I was talking about. Like, there are some really nice So. American Juan Manuel Fangio cards from Argentina, but I don't think he'd ever heard of them.

I like the older NASCAR postcards that pre-date the 1972 STP set. Obviously, racing is always going to lag behind the big stick and ball sports value wise. But it kind of surprises me that postcards of guys like Fireball Roberts and Joe Weatherly, who did not have standard cards during their lifetimes, sell for almost nothing.

I am not much of an autograph collector, but there has been a Weatherly /Roberts signed postcard on eBay for $400 for a long time. By eBay BIN standards, that doesn't seem like a bad price for two very tough early NASCAR stars that died in the '60s.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/385910656658

There's also a signed 1962 Roberts from the same Daytona set as my Petty:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/26440554294

Set has at least four cards: Petty, Roberts, Weatherly, White

These are all postcards:

1969 Buddy Baker:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...69%20Baker.jpg

1969 Richard Petty:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...69%20Petty.jpg

1970 Benny Parsons:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...%20Parsons.jpg

1972 Benny Parsons:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...%20Parsons.jpg

1973 Buddy Baker:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...73%20Baker.jpg

That '73 Buddy Baker is a cool looking postcard.

69 Petty is very cool.

The producers seem to follow a pattern each year, so I guess they are sets.

PSA whiff.
 

Sorry, got a chuckle when I stumbled across this Lewis Hamilton card on Ebay.


You think PSA would have done this to Verstappen?


:D:D:D


https://www.ebay.com/itm/12610172703...&segname=11021

I see there are a few NASCAR fans on this thread also. Here are a few of my cards, including King Petty and the Intimidator Earnhardt (and son Jr.)

Speaking of Janet...

Speaking of trailblazers, I found this 1973 postcard of Wendell Scott in the lot:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img137.jpg
https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img138.jpg

Quite the backstory of this HOFer, per Wikipedia:

"Scott began his racing career in local circuits in the late 1940s and obtained his NASCAR license in 1953, making him the first African-American ever to compete in NASCAR. He debuted in the Grand National Series(NASCAR highest level)on March 4, 1961 in Spartanburg, South Carolina. On December 1, 1963, he won a Grand National Series race at Speedway Park in Jacksonville, Florida, becoming the first black driver and team owner to win at NASCAR's premier level. Scott's career was repeatedly affected by racial prejudice including being poisoned (Dover) and death threats (Spartanburg, Darlington, Talladega, Jacksonville, and Daytona). Despite these challenges he continued to compete and was posthumously inducted into the International Motorsports Hall of Fame & NASCAR Hall of Fame in 2015."

Here's my Sportscaster.

I'm waiting for the movie to get finished, "Speed Girl" and starring Hilary Swank as Janet. I expect it to be a great movie when finished. Hilary Swank is a great actress and actually looks a lot like Janet.

I thought I would throw in a picture of a pretty cool autographed First Day cover signed by her, Rutherford, Foyt, King Richard and the great Bobby Unser.

Nice cards, gonefishing. Considering her impact, Guthrie's stuff remain very cheap. I have read the Speed Girl book on which the movie is going to be based. Is the movie still in the works? There seemed to be a fair amount of publicity about it a year or two ago, but I have not heard anything since. Last time I looked, I was unable to find any new information about the status of the movie.

As a side note, Richard Petty was one of Wendell Scott's bigger supporters, but was not very supportive at all of Guthrie trying to break into the sport.

Once in a while, an autographed Wendell postcard or traditional card from the late 1980s show up at auction on eBay. There are not a lot of autographed Wendell Scott cards around, since he died in 1990. They usually go for around $100-200.

The "Hard Driving" Wendell Scott biography by Brian Donovan is a pretty good read about what Scott had to endure.

For those unaware, the 1977 "Greased Lightning" movie with Richard Pryor is based on Wendell Scott, although not really a strict adaptation of his life story.

Any production would be shut down right now due to the strikes.

Hilary Swank was so great in Million Dollar Baby. Totally an aside, but the writer of the story that it was based on, F.X. Toole, was a longtime cutman and manager who started writing very late in life and got only a few pieces done before he died. If you want a real treat, pick up Rope Burns, the book of stories that has MDB. His writing is just beautiful.

Petty's signature is marvelously artistic. He must've practiced it a lot. Speaking of early cards, Unser is card #57 in the 1965 Donruss Spec Sheet set. I got a stack of those cards when i was a kid but it was years until I knew what they were.

I listen regularly to the NascardRadio podcast, which is a podcast about racing cards. A while back, the show talked about Petty cards and that he still visits the Richard Petty Museum in Randleman, N.C., once or twice a week specifically to sign all the items people have sent to the museum for autographs.

Petty still signs for free. Volunteers at the museum lay out all the items on tables and Petty moves down the line from item to item. For items that Petty has not seen before, he often jots a quick note on the item in addition to his signature.

Speaking of beautiful autographs, Adam, I imagine you will like this story. I listened to the "The War," an audiobook book a year or so ago on the brutal Hagler-Hearns fight. At one point, the book mentioned how beautiful Hagler's autograph was and how much time he put into making a nice signature for fans. After hearing that, I had to go look up some MMH autographs to see for myself how nice his autograph was.

Hagler definitely had one of the nicest signatures in boxing. He could be a bit surly in person, but if you got him, he didn’t cheap out on the signature.

Also, look how much nicer Hagler's signatures is on a glove with Sugar Ray Leonard's.

Oh...and sorry to hijack this Racing thread with this boxing post. :cool:

I plan to send off two Petty items to the Museum for signature. Still deciding on which ones. Probably some early PCs with brighter backgrounds.

I decided I needed a RC not the Panini. The 3 makes no sense to me, I don't see a damn thing wrong except typical centering.

Over the weekend I came across two Indy 500 postcards from 1963 of Parnelli Jones and Roger Ward. I'll scan and post eventually.

Alan Kulwicki did a signing at a local Hooters about nine months before he died.

https://i.postimg.cc/CLvhV0WY/Alan-Kulwicki.jpg

Good pickup, Peter. When I was looking for a Clark Lampo, I quickly realized that centering was going to be an issue. I would rather have your PSA 3 than several of the ones currently on eBay with almost no border at all on one side.

Very neat autographed AK card, especially one signed close to his passing. Definitely cool have a legit signed Kulwicki card.

Can someone please ID this racer? I picked up this 5 x 7 blank backed card over the weekend and cannot figure it out:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img220.jpg

Name on the nose of the car is "Tyrell". Closest I can get is Racer X, but I don't think that's right because he's wearing the Speed Racer logo on his chest and not on his helmet:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/6f/12/c4/6...r-serie-tv.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/34/f2...eb66da700f.jpg

Looks like Kevin Cogan drove that car briefly for Tyrrell in 1981.

Yep, that's Cogan alright, in 1981. No idea he was Rex Racer...

Dave is correct that it is Kevin Cogan. Cogan brought his Michelob sponsorship with him to run for car owner Ken Tyrrell at the 1981 Long Beach Grand Prix. Tyrrell's team was a power in the late 1960s-early 1970s in Formula 1, winning three driver's championships with Jackie Stewart. But by 1981, those glory days were mostly gone.

Cogan's is most known for the the 1982 Indy 500. He crashed on the pace lap that year, taking out A.J. Foyt and Mario Andretti.

Following the incident, Foyt referred to him as "...that idiot 'Coogan'" and Andretti said, "That's what happens when you send a boy to do a man's job."

Here are a couple of links showing that it is Cogan:

https://www.tradingpaints.com/showro...am-Kevin-Cogan

https://f1since81.wordpress.com/2014.../tyrrell-ford/

I found this in a box of old post cards I won in a local auction.

Any chance it is of Louis Meyer, Racing Hall of Famer, and first 3 time Indy 500 winner?

He won in car number 8 at Indy in 1936, for his 3rd and final win.

Edited to say, I think it MIGHT possibly by Joe Dawson, who won the 2nd Indy 500 in 1912 in the number 8 car. The car
looks to old to be of Meyer, and looks pretty close to the car Dawson would have driven. In addition, Dawson drove in
many other types of races, as noted on the hood of the car.

I guess it was worth $0.50 just to see the story.

Meanwhile, got these back today TTM:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...ize/img231.jpg

The irony is that I sent in items with large light colored areas figuring a nice contrast with a dark ink but he signed with a white paint pen on the dark areas.

Wow, back with autographs in under two weeks. The King doesn't mess around.

I know it is hard to complain about someone who has been perhaps the best free signer in sports for over 60 years, but that is weird that he signed with a white paint pen.

I'm not complaining at all. I am going to try again with some items with color fields that will show light or dark inks equally well.

I am not 100 percent certain on this, but I thought Petty would sign two items a year through the mail. That is something I had heard in the past. You may have to use another name/address if you want more items signed.

The NASCARD radio podcast just happened to be talking about Petty autographs on last week's show. They were saying that they have been hearing rumors that Petty is going to stop signing through the mail at the end of the year. The hosts advised anyone with an item they want autographed to get it in to the museum quickly just to be safe. I would tend to believe what the hosts said, since those guys are big TTM NASCAR autograph collectors and usually give good advice about collecting racing.

I knew you weren't complaining. I also wonder why he signed in white instead of black. I don't know that I have ever seen Petty sign in white before. :)

I believe the postcard is Joe Dawson. Below is a link showing Dawson and I think he strongly resembles the driver in the postcard. He also won the 1910 Vanderbilt Cup race, which was the biggest race there was until the Indy 500 began.

The 1912 Indy 500 is one of the more famous races in event history. Ralph DePalma led 196 of the 200 laps that year, but did not win the race. DePalma was five laps ahead of second-place Dawson when a connecting rod in DePalma's engine broke and punched a hole in the crankcase. DePalma and his riding mechanic erroneously thought they coming for lap 200 instead of lap 199 and got out of the car to try and push it across the finish line.

Dawson made up his five laps and passed DePalma and the riding mechanic as they were pushing their car.

The incident was then replicated over a half century later by "The Flintstones" as Fred Flintstone (racing under the alias "Goggles Pisano" in the
Indianrockapolis 500) got out to push his car after his rock tires disintegrated from him abusing them. :D

https://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/d...bio/joe_dawson

Thanks for the info. I am going to have items sent from my home addy and my daughter's addy.

Article is up:

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...rd-collecting/

I took a swing at it...

Adam,

That article was great. I know you are an expert on boxing cards, but I did not realize you had that much of an interest in racing. There was tons of good information in your article. I was not even aware of the year of the first cardboard appearance for several of the drivers you listed.

Thanks Eddie.

I love cards. I love researching them and writing about them. I bought a huge collection of nascar cards and did the research. When I find nothing of note out there written on the subject, I will try to write an article about it. Took about a month to research and write it.

So, I finished the 1962 Racing Pictorial set by literal luck. I needed two cards to complete it, Roberts and Weatherly. I was at a flea market looking through a box of $0.50 automotive PCs and there was the Weatherly!

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...therly%201.jpg

Well, once I pulled that needle out of a haystack I had to buy a Roberts and finish up:

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...%20Roberts.jpg

Nice job, Adam. As we talked mentioned earlier, Weatherly and Roberts postcards seem crazy cheap for not having any standard cards issued during their lifetimes. When I wrote that earlier in the thread, I wasn't even considering that Weatherly could be bought for 50 cents. ;)

Well that was just a random lucky pickup. Fun, though.

I have probably 800 NASCAR pieces I want to move. That's gonna be interesting. Any tips, besides eBay?

Oh, and the second batch of Petty signed items came in today. Again with the white paint pen. One of the cards had a dark background, so it looks great. The other one is gray, so not so much. The two my daughter 'sent' were dark background too, so I guess I will see how they look.

The King must be out of black Sharpies. :D

I would think eBay is your best bet for your NASCAR items. I am not telling you anything you don't already know, but the majority of NASCAR pieces don't bring a lot of money these days, unless it is Earnhardt or the 1972 STPs or a few other items.

Tim Richmond's **** is always popular. ;)

https://www.charlottemagazine.com/po...nascar-poster/

Yeah Nascar items been a hard sale on Ebay. I still have many diecast & cards, mainly Earnhardt Sr &Jr and Gordon stuff.
My brother collected the older vintage stuff diecast and etc. you guys like.
Over the past few yrs, i put them in Lots (larger boxes) tho shipping cost more.

If interested in any, just PM me here.

Did anyone notice the 1968 Mira Tutturosport of Andretti that ended in PWCC last night? Seems to predate the panini sticker from 69 that had long been accepted as his RC. Is this a new find?

I thought about getting into the bidding but it got pretty high, particularly with a corner of the card burned off or something. Was sitting at $500-$600 most of the auction but spiked to over $4k by the end.

Interesting, he's also on the card with AJ Foyt. Pretty good duo card I've not seen before.

Fun fact looking up that card. AJ Foyt is the godfather to one of Mario Andretti's nephews, John Andretti.


https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/item...e-123-psa-1-pr

I did not even realize Mario had a card in that set, but you are right that probably should be Andretti's rookie card. I don't think many people realize Andretti is even in that set. I always see lots of Lew Alcindor, Joe DiMaggio and Wilt Chamberlain cards from the Mira set, but a lot of the players from other sports seem pretty scarce.

If the set numbering is accurate to the actual number of cards, who knows who else is in that set? I know Rod Laver (tennis) is another really scarce example from the 1968 Mira.

Maybe the popular athletes were printed in large quantities, but you would think an Italian set would have more Marios than what there seems to be. There also seems to be lots of Rocky Marcianos still around, and he had been retired for over a decade by 1968.

FWIW, Andretti has a 1968 NASCAR PC and Indy 500 PCs that are earlier.

I have never seen or heard of an Andretti what the hell. Some are indeed scarce, like Laver, Arnold Palmer, Ali, Peggy Fleming.

There are also a lot of reprints floating around. Some Italian seller was flogging reprints a few years ago and they were scary good online. I decided not to buy any cards from the set except on the cheap or in slabs.

There are more Italian Marciano cards than there are cards from most other countries. I'm actually kind of surprised that the US has his two actual rookie cards.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...Sample%201.jpg

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...m%20PC%201.jpg

Though Italy got right in there the next year (1952 Cicogna):

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20Marciano.jpg

Some others:

1958 SADA Firenze

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20Marciano.jpg

1960 Master Vending (personal fave):

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20Marciano.jpg