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-   -   And it's in, Ortiz has been elected to the Hall (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=314157)

G1911 11-15-2022 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by etsmith (Post 2283892)
Sammy Sosa should definitely not get in, without the steroid use he was an average player at best.
His career OPS+ is surprisingly low.

rats60 11-16-2022 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by G1911 (Post 2283900)
His career OPS+ is surprisingly low.
Why should that matter? His SLG is 45th all time (also 31st in RBIs). That is better than Mel Ott, Mike Schmidt and a bunch of other power hitting HOFers. Sosa didn't walk a lot. I don't understand the obsession with middle of the lineup guys allowing themselves to get pitched around so players who aren't as good have to come up with big hits. Your middle of the lineup guys are the ones who should be driving in runs. Sosa shouldn't be in because he took steroids, not because he didn't allow himself to be pitched around.

darwinbulldog 11-16-2022 07:43 AM
Sosa shouldn't be in because he wasn't an especially good baseball player. Being the 19th best rightfielder is a very solid accomplishment, but it doesn't qualify one for the Hall.

ejharrington 11-16-2022 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2284025)
Why should that matter? His SLG is 45th all time (also 31st in RBIs). That is better than Mel Ott, Mike Schmidt and a bunch of other power hitting HOFers. Sosa didn't walk a lot. I don't understand the obsession with middle of the lineup guys allowing themselves to get pitched around so players who aren't as good have to come up with big hits. Your middle of the lineup guys are the ones who should be driving in runs. Sosa shouldn't be in because he took steroids, not because he didn't allow himself to be pitched around.
100% agree with this.

G1911 11-16-2022 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rats60 (Post 2284025)
Why should that matter? His SLG is 45th all time (also 31st in RBIs). That is better than Mel Ott, Mike Schmidt and a bunch of other power hitting HOFers. Sosa didn't walk a lot. I don't understand the obsession with middle of the lineup guys allowing themselves to get pitched around so players who aren't as good have to come up with big hits. Your middle of the lineup guys are the ones who should be driving in runs. Sosa shouldn't be in because he took steroids, not because he didn't allow himself to be pitched around.
I don’t think I follow the logic of the objection to me commenting on OPS+. Why would it not be relevant or matter? OPS is the combination of slugging and on base. Slugging is the more heavily weighted component of the two. If you are going to rely on slugging, mustn’t you then believe that OPS has some value? You do not believe getting on base is worth anything and thus OPS is junk?

OPS+ pits OPS in context of time and place. I would think the reason to do that is evident.


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