I always wondered how dealers could win auctions & pay as much as collectors on the BST & still be in business.

I like your optimism Goudey77. Also, a great move for us card dudes and baseball in general: Ken Burns just made his 9-part documentary "Baseball" available for free viewing on PBS. Usually those are only available for purchase. That's a great move after the Astro's scandal and now the cancellation/postponement of MLB.

Obviously wrestling cards mean nothing in the aggregate but it shows that the card market has broadened significantly. Pokemon and Magic The Gathering have been the best performing segment over the past five years and just about every post I have ever read on online sports card message boards made fun of them and the people who collect them. Yet they saw unprecedented price performance. The card market is global so Asia saw a slow down and there is evidence they are coming out of it and cards like this and basketball are heavily collected there and you might have some person who is a software tycoon who wants all of these cards and drives them to the moon. I have no clue how they have fared the past few months but clearly The Black Lotus is a monster card and will be forever.

I use the 1986 Fleer Jordan and the 1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr. as the two proxy cards for the hobby. If they are going up than many other cards are too. Kind of like FANG with the stock market.

There are a few cards I regret not buying but I have always funded my collection through cash flow and there have been certain times where I just had to say no. This may not be the case for others and I think it is fair to say in certain segments you could see what you would consider forced selling. That said there are some very deep pocketed collectors out there and so they will sop up the supply and the market will move forward.

The PWCC index I argued was a poor representation for the hobby because of the weighting structure and the amount of those cards that turn over. If you take the 52 Topps Mantle in a PSA 8 it has clearly pulled back in public auction over the past few years. Those that are interested in its prices going up argued that they were poor centered copies and that the prices weren't indicative of better centered copies. They might be right. They might be wrong but the index doesn't take into consideration eye appeal and so it artificially inflates on the way up and artificially deflates on the way down. Because the weighting structure is so high it helped drive the index up significantly as the card ran from $78,000 to over $525,000. You also saw the 55 Clemente and the 63 Rose see insane increase during the "buyers group bubble" and as they came back down to planet earth so did the index.

The debt situation in this country is so much different than when we were in 2008 and into 09. People can actually refinance debt. I bought my condo in 2005 and did the typical pull out equity to remodel and then did some real stupid sh++ and lost it in the market trading options. I said enough is enough and went to a fixed rate mortgage in 2006 and then when the bottom fell out I was stuck in a high interest (6.25%) mortgage and had I stuck with the risky arm I would have been dramatically better off. It took me a few years of aggressively paying it down to be able to refinance and I did and was able to lower the rate significantly. Unlike most in finance I had no desire to create arbitrage and worked my ass off to pay it off even though the rate was only 3.50%. Today people have been given a gift with the ten year under 1% and so refinance applications have exploded. This coupled with the gas prices will be great stimulus eventually for the economy.

I think everyone is just freaked out right now. All of us will probably end up spending more time at home not by choice and so you will see some supply show up as people have time to list cards but you will also see lots of people bored and so buying something will give them pleasure.

In time this will pass and the sports fans will be sports fans and the people collecting cards will still be collecting. I can't stress enough how much of an impact watching money evaporate trading options had on my card purchases. Stock market declines in many cases lead to more people being interested in tangible assets because watching numbers vanish on a computer screen is no fun and it is much more fun to lose if that is the outcome and still have the same item you bought.

This does kind of feel like a debate about where the deck chairs should be placed on the Titanic.

A few auction results that happened this week are pretty irrelevant. There is a massive sword hanging over the head of the world economy right now and that is what is going to determine card values are by the end of this year.

The problem is that we don't know how long the economically disruptive countermeasures to control the Coronavirus are going to be necessary.

Most major companies can withstand a shutdown of a few weeks at most. So if this thing improves significantly by next month we might get out of this OK and your cards might not take much of a hit. But if it drags on into the summer like some are now suggesting it will, most businesses can't survive that long and bankruptcies will explode, making the economic chaos we are witnessing now seem relatively mild.

The entire airline industry is already teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and will probably be wiped out completely in a few weeks if governments worldwide don't bail them out. There are a lot of other sectors out there similarily vulnerable lined up to follow, way too many for governments to be able to keep them all afloat with bailouts.

If that happens card values are going to be destroyed just like the value of every other kind of investment.

So lets hope it doesn't come to that.

Preach. When I was a dealer at shows during high school ('89 to '92) during the boom, opening that Beckett each time as a teen was like getting to check your growth stocks for the first time in a month.

Those years taught me so much and got me well ahead of the curve when it came to learning about adult finance, people, success, and failure

I agree. China was ground zero and according to the CDC, their death toll as of Monday morning was 3,218. Cases there are slowing so it appears they are beginning to recover. Not saying I know for certain, but I think the death toll in the USA will be less than that, and this thing should be about over by the middle of June. That will stress the stock market, with lower earnings and companies struggling for cash, but if you hang onto your cards, I'm thinking by Christmas or earlier their value will be intact. For the quality vintage stuff anyway.

https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...ation-reports/

Recent reports say that UK health officials fear that possibly up to 80% or Britains will get it over the upcoming year. With a 1% death rate, that would mean approx. 500,000 British would die.

Just something I read. Don't pretend to be an expert.

Who cares? We need to stop being afraid of what "could" happen? No one will say it, but I will. It's cold, but at some point, we have to not live in fear. And that's what is ruling right now and being stoked by the news media. Does anyone realize this broke in December and the US deaths to date due to this is a whopping 93???????

Gov Cuomo said we are at war. War with the virus, so he too Mr Early Wynn fan compared it to war. And in War you lose lives.

And all this over 93 deaths (75 million in WWII), and again most are very old people, sorry older people but if you are 80 or 90 your playing in overtime as it is. Ok relax I do get the we need to stop this, not saying that, but shut everything down for a week or two and that's it. Talk of any more is assinine.

Approximately 7,452 die every day in the United States due to natural deaths, multiple diseases, accidents, murders, viruses, etc...….and we are going to let the Economy tank, retirement funds disappear, money for kids colleges gone, mass amounts of people potentially jobless, no paychecks, no income for some. You also run the risk of suicides, riots, looting (anybody remember the LA Riots, don't think that can't happen again) if this goes too long.

We are going to risk all this for 93 deaths since December, and yes I know its going to go up, to what 200, 500, 1000, who cares. Sad but True at some point we all need to roll the dice and resume normalcy.

We can't save everyone people. Sorry.

Life expectancy is US is a hair over 78 years old. Congrats those those long livers!

for me...my purchases have always been modest (up to low or mid 4 figures) and always from my non essential discretionary funds. Having said that as the market tanks and eats into my retirement funds a bit..its natural to conserve and scale back on spending on "fun" things...esp as you near retirement age.

Ricky Y

It feels crappy to measure human life in these terms, but my wife and I were talking about this last night. For every life lost, how many thousands of lives will possibly be financially ruined forever? The only way to answer that is to know the timeline, which no one knows. There are a lot of people who will have a hard time bouncing back from a few weeks, let alone a few months. That said, all of this is an effort to not overwhelm the healthcare system.....because if that goes, the panic we're seeing now is going to seem like a tickle party by comparison.

Whatever he did, he turned a piece of turd into a piece of gold, and that's brilliant IMO. Good job, Peck.

It's actually pretty easy to do. I've seen it happen quite a bit in the antiquarian book world.

A key reason they are doing the steps they are doing is not because it's the black plague. They are doing it to lower and lengthen the curve. If there is a large peak, it would swamp the healthcare system, hospitals and hospital resources.

https://cdn.slidemodel.com/wp-conten...template-1.jpg

"Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin warned Republican senators Tuesday that the coronavirus pandemic could drive up US unemployment to 20%, a Republican Senate source told CNN."

Skipping politics aside, if we get close to 20 percent unemployment the card market will suffer as many people will have to sell at reduced prices to put food on the table, pay rent, etc.

The 2008 recession led to 10 percent unemployment by October, 2009. This would be double that figure. If you remember how 2007-10 was, then you have an idea what 2020-22 would be and then some.

Rich

I see ZERO CHANCE of US Unemployed going to %20 Won’t Happen......thankfully it won’t even get close :-)

For ALL of us Johnny, I hope and pray you are correct.

Rich

I also hope you are correct, but the service and retail sector is going to hit hard the longer this pandemic drags out. As someone in service sector operations I know the conference call I took yesterday was very bleak and I'm sure I wasn't the only one on a like that call recently. Do I believe "true" unemployment can reach 20% soon? Probably not. But I can absolutely see temporary layoffs and closures pushing the percentage of the workforce going a period of time without a full paycheck or without one completely well past 20%.

Rich,

I hope and pray too :-) we all have to stick together and Keep America Strong

No one is going to go bankrupt...the courts are closed.

Look on the bright side:

--Lots of old people won't have to worry about outliving their retirement savings.

--Full employment in the health care sector is guaranteed.

--Spirit Air might go out of business.

--Might kill a Kardashian or two.

--No jackasses pestering me to buy March Madness squares.

--More people are washing their hands after they pee...or finish other things.

--We won't have to go to Atlantic City.

Thanks, you've been a great audience. Enjoy REO Speedwagon.

This crash is only damning for a small percentage of people: people who were looking to cash out their 401K's or other retirement accounts this year or the next. I have almost 30 more years to go before I'm retiring.

The crash won't affect my purchasing power. Everyone is always very sunny when it comes to discussing the future of the hobby. Only those nearing the end of their financial planning are really doomed. Let's see what happens.

If you had a significant amount on money in the 401K and nearing retirement you should not have been in an aggressive mode. Now those with 30 or so years to go should be fine.

I don't know what an aggressive 401K looks like. If you owned anything you took a huge hit. But it only matters if you don't have time to recover. Anyone looking to retire this year is probably rethinking that. Anyone who planned to cash out their accounts won't have enough time to recover before they need the money.

By the way, since it's always advised that you look on the bright side of things, a crash like this could be good for people my age. It may be an opportunity to build future wealth.

It will be for sure, as long as you can keep your job. Travel and Entertainment is getting wiped out, that is 20mm workers plus all of the ancillary businesses that support them.

RE is going to get smoked as well.

Basically the economy is about to go dark for 30-60 days. I think people will understand how deep this is over the next few days when millions of people get layed off. The bankruptcy filings are going to be epic. Hilton was down 20 points today and is headed to zero Delta down 25% in one day....60% of 52 week high.

This is unprecedented. Card prices will be the least of anyones worries.

Dean's might lower his prices

eBay must not be feeling the effects yet. Haven't gotten any bucks or selling promotions this week.

LoL 😂

In many 401K's you have the option of how you want to put your money. Back in the day at Beckett we had something like 10 options from something akin to low risk/low reward investments to ultra aggressive investments. And many options in between. You had the choice of where to put your money in terms of percent. I will still say, if you are approaching retirement age and have a large sum in the 401K to pull back from being aggressive and go to basically stable places to put your money. if you went conservative and are in your early 60's you still have last money this month but not nearly as much as being uber aggressive.

Rich

a new era
 

We should stop dealing with China as they are a threat to our security unless they change how they are to us and the world, we don't need them if we make crap here or in a friendly country......we should respect one another and maybe this was a true wake up call that will make all people appreciate how lucky we are....We need a strong America and a Compassionate America but not a stupid America...we need to build products, build infrastructure, we need everyone to buy baseball cards, a game WE INVENTED!

and most of all, we need gratitude & faith.

Thanks for the hearty laugh! Glad I wasn't drinking when I read this. Runner up: JLS Cards out of Alaska

Good luck convincing Americans to pay $4k for an iPhone because it’s “made in the USA”.

This is the most important card in the market.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/40215721526...p2471758.m4704


Cruising to new highs with time to go.


I will openly admit the stock and bond route has gone much deeper than I could have imagined but some how I continue to see very strong card prices.

As tough as it might seem to stay bullish I am reminded daily that there is tremendous demand for trading cards.

Sorry not sure if I’m believing that that price will result in a real sale?

The card is selling strong in all grades.

eBay competed auctions are remaining very strong across all genres.

I get it everyone is waiting for the shoe to drop but so far after a historic route in stock and bond prices it hasn’t happened.

don't pop the champagne cork just yet....
 

but if this decline continues.......get it on ice

People still watching PWCC auctions? What a freaking farce, from day 1 until today.

well at least with PSA shut down they won't have a stream of altered, er, conserved, cards to sell.

What's a trimmer to do? Just use sgc and "only" realize a smaller profit

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

:DNow that's funny...

We are only in the first inning. The virus and layoffs are only getting started. Unfortunately, they are no where near peaking. Some economists and health officials estimate that will not occur until July. You can tout short-term auction prices and result all you want.

I’m not worried about an auction result currently going on right now. Let’s see what happens down the road. Revisit this issue in 6 months. Just like those 4 senators that were telling Americans everything would be fine a few weeks ago, while they liquidated their portfolios.

I totally agree with this sentiment and this is not even taking into account the likelihood that this card has been altered!!!
Seems like it’s already a non-issue?

Exactly, this thing is only getting started.

I don’t think people fully realize how integrated commerce is. We are going to hit depression era employment levels. GDP levels we haven’t seen in 20 years. RE market is going to get crushed and I bet a significant portion of the hobby is debt financed.

The best and most desirable cards will be fine but they represent a very small portion of the overall hobby. My guess is overall transaction volume has dropped substantially and will continue to drop. April is when millions of Americans won’t be receiving any income, for now most folks layed off are getting their two weeks.

Matt I agree with most of what you said, spot on. However, I do not see depression era employment levels coming.......

I sure hope you are right but 2mm people will make UI claims this week. Last week in Canada we had 500k claims - 20x increase yoy. And most employers have ‘t even made a move yet. Early April is going to be ugly.

https://photos.imageevent.com/exhibi...20yeah%202.png

Unfortunately, the Secretary of the Treasury told the Senate that is exactly what to expect, they are just trying to hide this info (too).

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/mnuc...urce-says.html

After the information leaked, the Treasury later walked it back to "not a projection" status.

Meanwhile, on Main Street, several of my clients contacted me last week with questions about how to lay off their entire staffs.

As fast and viscous as the move lower in stock and bond prices have been I would imagine most that expect a significant correction in card prices would think that is what we would be seeing right now.

PWCC has 8,795 active listings and there is still a ton of money being spent on cards.

I get it most on here despise them but in order to see what is actually taking place with cards you have no choice but to watch their auctions. Whether anyone likes it or not they are still getting the lion share of the best cards on EBAY and I maintain the opinion they are more like a stock exchange than a dealer and I like to follow prices.

There is a wide range of outcomes that can come from this disaster. Business in this country can't stay closed for long as some are estimating without destroying the economy and I believe this will force us to get back to work faster. So far while this has hit all 50 states it is clearly a bigger issue in just a few and so hopefully regionally we see a faster acceleration of normalcy.

Time will tell how this plays out.

In terms of your last comment. Part of the story is fake news. The woman from GA is innocent and just as I proved on this board Joe Orlando was with his stock option exercise program some will believe it regardless because they simply want too.

Social distancing was already employed at grocery stores and McDonald's with those self check out machines. My wife and I bet that more stores will begin to employ them as we move into the future.

Read an article from MIT, it said the hardest hit population from this newest recession will be the low end wage worker that can easily be replaced. It wondered aloud about how universal incomes are laughed at now, but might become a more serious debate going forward.

While I too doubt a great depression era unemployment percentage, if the USA really wanted a stimulus package, it would invest 3 trillion into highways, bridges, and modernizing dams. Lots of bodies with shovels, cdl, and biceps needed. College degree not required.

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This just reported:

Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis President James Bullard predicted the U.S. unemployment rate may hit 30% in the second quarter because of shutdowns to combat the coronavirus, with an unprecedented 50% drop in gross domestic product.

Maybe the card trimmers will now file for unemployment. With their partner in crime (PSA) now closed, their ability to earn an income is adversely impacted.

Moser, Mathis, Thorn, Adams, Block, Tuttle, Pevarnick and the rest should at least try to file for Unemployment, and see what happens. Without PSA, they are basically in the same boat as the rest of us! :(

Henry- I couldn't agree more.

Regarding PWCC sales, the proper way to track market direction is not number if items, or high profile item sale price. The way to see where we are headed would be YOY volume by auction. So what is total transaction volume March 2019 vs 2020. And considering we are really only two weeks into this, and the auction that just closed was 90 days in the works, I don’t think it is a good data point, or any data point since we don’t know YOY. In fact, as this thing expands I expect PWCC listings to increase as supply outstrips demand.

I am going to assume that cards will trend in the same direction all consumer spending is trending...way the fook down. I have a very hard time believing that equities, PM’s, discretionary purchases like cars and RV’s, soon RE , will all trend down, significantly, and card prices will hold. It would defy logic for that to happen.

I do expect shilling and all the shenanigans we are used to, to increase as the pinheads in the hobby try and keep the illusion of strong prices alive. But there is no way trillions evaporates from GDP and a fringe investment like sportscards doesn’t take a beating. First week in April is when SHTF and ten million people hit EI.

Again, hope I am wrong, my family is heavily impacted ( but fortunately work for a great company and will be ok).

I’m worried about the people who will panic cut or run when they open their 401k/IRA retirement statements.

Redemption calls.

Dow Futures Sunday night, hit the circuit breaker about 5 minutes into the open at 6 PM EST. Down 984 I believe, so we are just above 18K now for the Dow Jones.

All of the threads over the years saying that stocks are an investment and cards are a hobby seem pretty questionable. Right now, I wish I had 50% of my net worth in cards and 3% in stocks, instead of the other way around.

The point was simply if a seller who has over 8,000 active listings is to be avoided from watching you are missing the market. They get the best cards. The best cards drive the market.

I like to follow trading card auctions to see what is taking place in the hobby. There is no better seller to follow than PWCC to get a broad range of cards.

I went through my purchases today on EBAY and I have won seven cards from their auctions since January of 2018. I am very pleased with the buys and if someone wants to buy cards they simply can't just exclude them if they want to advance their collection.

There are a multitude of cards getting action right now and maybe these buyers haven't gotten the word that the market has collapsed or unemployment is set to explode. Maybe they don't care. I don't know the answer but you don't see a drought yet in cards.

If the richest 1% are heavily invested it's good for you too. But they are also diversified in art, automobiles, cards, coins, jewelry, land/rental property, etc. Its good to have a balanced portfolio.

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Could not agree more.

Well this thread is about the overall card market and price predictions, not PWCC. PWCC having lots of listings is not a data point. I would expect their listing to go UP in times like this. Similar to RE, lot of listings represents a buyers market.

And who cares if there is lots of action. There is lots of action in equity markets right now, volumes are historic. Would you agree then that equity markets are doing well?

I enjoy you as a poster here and on CU - optimism and supporting the hobby is a good thing. But we are going through a once in a lifetime event. PWCC’s own index ffs shows that broadly cards have been flat since 2016 and that was in the best of times - 4 percent UE, RE markets exploding and free money.

As a fellow guy in finance, what is your outlook for the economy and how does that dovetail with your outlook on cards? Who cares about PWCC, how do you feel cards will perform in 12-18% UE and negative 20% GDP? You can’t be one of the “this will pass soon” guys?

There was a comment earlier about people still watching PWCC listings. The answer is yes I still do. I don't see how someone can't.

EBAY is a real time market place. The same data that is available to stock market participants is available to those buying cards. These same people can turn on the news and see the horror show. Why are they still bidding on cards? I don't know. I know I have been trolling EBAY looking for stuff to buy at the same pace during this entire market meltdown. If something I want shows up I am buying it. 100% of my card buys have come from monthly cash flow and I assume there are plenty of others who have a similar situation.

I put more money into cards in 2010 then any other year and that was a horrible time for the economy and highly uncertain for me in finance. In my view cash flow is king and so there is no doubt that there will be some cash flow impact in the coming months for loads of people. That said my cash flow can decline and I can still afford to buy cards. Some won't be able to. How much they matter to the card prices is debatable. I don't know the answer.

The economy was in great shape heading into this. I think it all comes down to how long it is halted. If it is two months for most of it the stimulus package and debt extension efforts will help. If it is four months or more we will be in trouble for a while. The decline in interest rates and energy is huge stimulus and obviously the lack of work is not.

There was a hedge fund manager that was on CNBC this week twice who is a billionaire and in his late 40's and started at 25. He thinks the market hits new highs by the end of the year. Is it probable? No. Is it possible? Yes. He is looking at the same situation we are.

I personally think this is a very hard one to predict because under no circumstances did I think in 2009 it would be a v shaped recovery. I remember arguing with an old timer in the office who was a portfolio manager and was insistent we were in trouble for a long time. I couldn't have been more wrong as the market came screaming back and while I had been very bearish on the way down I didn't get it right on the way back up. With a massive amount of fiscal stimulus it is very possible that this will assist in keeping us from going as deep as one might think and certainly could assist in us coming back from this.

My situation is different than most because I own such a large concentration of the same cards and a large percentage of the population totals. A few weeks ago an Andre The Giant 1982 PSA 8 sold for $1,358. There are 18 in the pop report and I have 6 of them. I know I could never sell them all at the same time and not impact prices. A PSA 7 sold for $620. I have 7 of those. The same holds true there. That said the totals of these cards are low enough where they don't come for sale frequently and so if someone wants one they have to go after it. Do some of the market participants get knocked out of the market for this card? Possibly but it is not 100%.

I truly believe that a ton of money has flowed into cards because they are a hard asset. You still own it regardless of the value. Someone who bought Enron watched their piece of paper go to zero. An Andre will always be worth something. Perhaps more. Perhaps less but never zero.

There is a trimmed raw Kobe Bryant card with a current bid of $145,600 right now on Ebay. Why? Because there are people out there that want this stuff and that isn't going to change. The buying power might change and that is the the question we can't answer. If it lasts a few months it is a non event. If it lasts years than yes the economy will catch up to cards.

It remains to be seen how this plays out and I remain optimistic we will get through this. I hope I am right. It has never paid to bet against the American economy for long.

Another bad example - there are so few of the Kobe Green Metal cards. Those cards are extremely condition sensitive and could actually benefit a little trim around the edges without negatively impacting value.

The point is there is still money out there that can support a card selling for nearly 150k from 1997. Most will pay more for a slabbed card and so the fact that it is raw doesn't help its cause. Yes there are 10 so you take what you can get but that doesn't mean those searching wouldn't pay more for a higher numerical grade.

Not everyone is going to be in dire straits. If you are a waiter perhaps but they don't drive the card market.

Here we have a Johnson/Bird rookie.

Sold for $5,822 in January

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Topps-...8AAOSwyMVeGiRK

A PWCC copy with a premium rating $8,100 in February

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1980-Topps-...UAAOSwFZNeQEyg

A standard copy like the first I posted sells for $7,565 tonight

https://www.ebay.com/itm/14355376147...torefresh=true


Why not less than the one in January when the market was at all time highs? Why not drastically less?

"Alleged" Doctored altered cards run up by fake buyers groups and shill bids. Wait until next month when the same cards are listed



If you value your portfolio by PWCC sales prices, you will be in for a rude awakening come sale time. Yes, I refuse to even add any of their cards to my watch list to "increase eyeballs". I'll view real time sales from everyone else thank you.

They are the Parateum of cards with False earnings in my book.

The first card has a noticeable print defect on the bottom right corner which could be why it sold for less than the other two.

I follow 79/80 OPC Hockey. There are a TON of Gretzkys being unloaded at the moment. That card, many years ago, used to sell for about $100 per PSA grade up to PSA 7. Now it's about three times that and doesn't look like it's going down. The big Gretzky card (PSA 9) grade is not trustworthy IMO because there is a larger opportunity to artificially inflate the price and create a facade for value - these type of cards shouldn't be considered when studying the card market as a whole.

When people refer to the stock market they discuss the most important companies in the world and base their judgment on how they are performing.

These actively traded cards are a better example because they are liquid. In the cards I follow a Randy Orton PSA 10 rookie sold for $175 today. A very strong price. Very doubtful that card sells for that in auction. It’s a lot easier to sell an Andre than that card and if people end up really needing money the good stuff gets sold because it’s the easiest to move.

Focusing on PWCC only tells you about current demand, it doesn't tell you anything about where demand or supply are going to be at in a couple months when the economic effects of this really start to be felt.

The writing on the wall is clear: lots of people are going to be needing money in the next few months just to get by. Either they'll have lost a job, had their hours cut, or seen their retirement savings decimated by the stock market crash. Government action might cushion the fallout a bit but noway is it going to solve any of it. So anyone with a collection who falls into one of those categories is likely to be making some tough choices in the coming weeks about what they need to get rid of in order to get some money.

And the problem is that all of these people will be making that decision at about the same time, which means you'll likely see a huge spike in stuff for sale this summer. They haven't flooded the market yet because this crisis has been sprung upon us so suddenly and most people who have decent collections probably have some savings to tide them over a bit. But once they reach that point, supply is going to go through the roof at exactly the same time demand craters because the people who are usually buyers have become sellers.

Its the perfect recipe for the market to tank completely. If PWCC prices are still high today, then the smart person would be selling everything they have like mad right now to take advantage of that because it won't last.

Here I was worrying about the stock market and the Coronavirus and I completely missed the fact that the Randy Orton PSA10s were doing well. That changes everything.

Agreed, huge if true.

WTF is a "Randy Orton"??? Sounds like a horny cockney elephant.

One of the best wrestlers of the last 20 years.

His father is Bob Orton Jr. and his father is Bob Orton Sr. A great wrestling family.

He is in the 2002 WWE Fleer Royal Rumble with other notable cards of John Cena, Brock Lesnar, and Dave Bautista. They are black bordered and hard to get high grades on.

Yes, “Orton ears a Ooo”. I read it as a tyke.

Wall Street may say one thing, but Main Street folks know differently - despite what Joe Blow PSA 10 sold for last night. Those that sell equities or cards are going to beat the everything is fine drum. They have an invested interest. I’m no chicken little, but know enough that this crisis could cause a significant recession. Make smart decisions during this time, folks. Godspeed.

I know some don't like my WWII analogy to all of the current mess.

BUT.......

We lost over 405,000 Americans in WWII, and I'd say the vast majority were 18-30 years old young men. To me that's a lot sadder, then losing an 80 or 90 year old who have had quite a run.

We've lost 4 or 500 old people here. A handful of non-old. Even if we lose 20K when all is said and done, it's not close to 400K. And we came back strong after WWII, losing 400K. America needs to lose the we have to save every one mentality. This is now a new world. Some will die. We are not saving everyone. And destroying lives and the economy will be far worse then 500 old people dying sorry. It's like the Titanic folks, not everyone is getting in a lifeboat.

Yes its a mess, but it's not a mass killer. Less then 1% who get it will die. The FEAR promoted by the media, has contributed to beating the sh-t out of the economy and caused mass panic. It'd be nice if they used their platform to heal and get everyone back to work fairly soon. Shut NY for a month, maybe CA too (although that Gov. is an exagerrator - he just wants to look like the hero when the numbers are way low, you do the opposite and its political suicide, I get it), but the rest need to get back in a week or 2.

We need to get tough, isolate the old only, the rest of America get our asses back to work. Yes we are going to lose some people, sucks, sucks bad, but pretty soon enough is enough and we fight through it.

We defeated the British, the Japs, the Nazis, the Terrorists, we are going to get taken by a Chinese Virus?

NO we are not.

Let's just hope (and do what we can to work toward) keeping this from getting out of control. If the low end of some predictions come true and 30% of the US population contract the virus, that is about 100 million US citizens out of 330 million. 1% of that amount is 1 million.

That's not just math, that's people we are talking about. And it is not just the old that are going to be dragged underground.

We have the right to be concerned, even if this (hopefully) only ends up killing 20,000 of us in the US.

Brian

It ain't going from 40,000 to 30 million. Another FEAR monger giving those numbers. SENSATIONALISM Sells.

And yes be concerned, but not afraid to live your life. Now everyone is afraid.

and again see this article from 2018:

https://www.statnews.com/2018/09/26/...deaths-winter/

Why were there no charts showing how many were dying each week in each state. Could you imagine if the media showed that, 80,000 deaths vs 500 now. Imagine what that panic would have been. Wasn't an election year though, and must have been better stories. No one seemed to care about those 80,000 Americans.

Yes, this will be a bad week, it will get better.....STAY POSITIVE!!! (and don't watch too much CNN & MSNBC, so negative, and Fox while somewhat better, has their issues as well, can we get one station that just gives us the news without an agenda).

Who else thinks shilling Will be at all time new levels over the next few months ?

Leon?
 

The debate about how much to change the country's economic behavior in response to this virus is eminently worthy of discussion, but not here. And I'll continue to watch CNN and MSNBC to get the news, thanks, others can watch what they want.

40,000 is a meaningless number when very few people are being tested. The true number is much, much larger than that. Being optimistic is good, being blind to reality is not.

Stock market affecting cards? I was watching a nicely centered 1955 Topps Mays PSA 7. Just went for $1,900.00 - Wow ! My bid not even close on this one. Went for over double SMR and way above any recent sales for that card.

I imagine the same card will be going for $500 in June.