No don't have the facebook. Hoping to watch the youtube link later when posted.

I won't give anything away - only that it was a nail biter as the PSA packaging was slowly chipped away...

HAHA! I learned a (luckily) cheap lesson!! I will be much better prepared next time (and there will probably be a next time). I pulled a Darrin Jackson partial blackless to boot! Video link is below:

https://www.facebook.com/503196138/v...7730769741139/

That was extremely painful to watch. Your hoodie more than made up for it though.:)

EDIT: to add thanks for sharing.

Thanks for posting this. Love the Ripken FF hoodie!

Thanks for sharing! This was great and exciting to watch.

It appears as though a new mystery and a new discovery were made with the opening of this pack. I was chatting with someone on Facebook who watched the video and is the guy on Youtube who opened 8 packs and pulled 2 of the blackless cards. The Darrin Jackson I pulled has a crease in the bottom center that loops up along the I in Darrin and bends left up just under the jersey button. Wouldn't you know it he has a blackless Darrin Jackson with the IDENTICAL CREASE. I believe it is safe to say the crease is correlated to the ink issue in some way. All of the printing experts out there are free to chime in. The mystery deepens....

that was awesome, congrats on the jackson. great card.

Congratulations on your pull. Make sure to join the 1990 Topps Partial Blackless Facebook group.

Congratulations on your pull. Make sure to join the 1990 Topps Partial Blackless Facebook group.

Hope it does not make the news that there is a Blackless Facebook group :-)

AL wins the internet today.

That took me a minute. Thinking man's humor...I love it.

Very cool finds! However, the wrinkle does not have anything to do with the causation of the error.

What leads you to that conclusion? Not here to argue, but two blackless with identical creases would be indicative of there being correlation. I suppose I should open a box to see i a normal Jackson has the same crease though. I'm far from an expert here...

It defies the theories put forward by multiple printing experts on this thread and the main one on the CU forum. My best advice is just to read both of those threads. You don’t even have to leave this site, just go back one page. Every printing causation theory is discussed ad nauseam right on this thread. Finding a similar wrinkle on two cards is fairly interesting but not that uncommon and definitely not related to the cause of the errors.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/13378836174...0AAOSwbSdgxlL0

now apparently sammy sosa is part of all this :eek::rolleyes:

LOL, thanks for the laugh. It is sad to see people with a decent ebay history pulling these type of scams. They should leave them for the zero feedback sellers.

One of my favorites was when a seller was selling missing red ink cards when the cards weren't missing the red ink.

Darn, you mean these are not true redless cards :)

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...080&fit=bounds

:D

that's a great nolan ryan though!

Bought a 3000 count box today of 1990 Topps and found the Curt Ford blackless. :)

Still sorting and found two more error cards - The Leibrandt partial blackless and checklist #1 missing the "Continued" text.

You are on a roll Dan :)

And having fun with cards again thanks to you guys and your error/variation hunt that got me hooked when I was stuck at home. Going to keep this batch of cards separate from the rest of my collection so I can go back as I learn of more error/variations in the 1990 set since this box seems to contain an early run of the cards. Not a single Thomas in the box, but almost all other star cards are present except for Griffey.

lol me too.. spent 2 hours last night going through a box of mix 80s junk looking for 1990 cards. No variations (yet!)

I'm gonna have to go through mine now too. I opened a fair amount of wax of 90's. Of course no Frank's NNOFs to speak of at all. But one never knows if something else could be in the mix.


……later that day…..

I got a rock. Zilch, zip, nada. I even have a partial case left over and am not gonna bother gripping and ripping them open because that was what I pulled from to begin with.

A few weeks back I purchased a 3000 count box of 1990 Topps locally and while perusing I discovered some blackless cards I did not know about. I also found a checklist error card that is missing the "Continued on Checklist 2". When googling the Curt Ford card I found another collector had discovered the same green sheet partial blackless cards that I had found too so they are not a one off.

HOF RC NNOF

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/GAsAA...QT/s-l1600.png

The Baines variant was highlighted sometime back in this thread

https://www.net54baseball.com/showth...ght=fleer+1981

Correct, this was me, I pulled all of the green sheet errors from a case of 1990 Topps, the case was mailed out on March 8, 1990 I believe so it was definitely not an early print run.
My case contained the Chris Speier error which had the largest missing blackless area. Nice to see you found a clean Curt Ford, mine had a very unfortunate scuff straight out of the pack that I've seen on many cards in the 1990 set.
Another point of interest - the green sheet cards from my case, also bore the distinctive blue plate scratch that was present on the orange sheet containing the Frank Thomas NNOF. I don't believe that to be a coincidence. I've opened up thousands of 1990 Topps packs from all kinds of sources, and I would say there were perhaps 3 other instances of finding noticeable plate scratches, and none came close to being as distinctive as the plate scratches that ran the length of both the orange and green sheets containing the blackless cards.

Speier:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads...an25ildqt3.jpg

Ford:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads...beqq1ayfw.jpeg

Here is how the cards would line up on an uncut sheet:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads...q9893u1f79.jpg

My stash of cards did not have a Speier card at all and the Santana, Meadows and Martinez cards were all normal. Now how do we get PSA to recognize these green sheet PB errors?

The Frank Thomas partial black is sitting in Goldin Auctions right now at $8,101 with the juice.

https://goldin.co/item/1990-topps-er...rd-psa-mipr73r

At least two cards at the top of the A* Blue Sheet have the print flaw, John Smiley and Dan Pasqua. I suspect more cards on the top row may have also been affected.

At least one other card is part of the E* Green Sheet print flaw, Lance Johnson, which is two cards away from the others. It seems Sammy Sosa should have also been affected but I have never seen or heard of one missing part of the border line.

Can someone provide a list of all the card #'s affected by the "missing ink" & "white areas" so I can check mine out?

Cliff, when did you discover those extra missing black cards? Is there a definitive list somewhere of these cards?

I wish I did discover them, richtree posted the Smiley and Pasqua on page 22 of the CU thread nearly three years ago and I ran across the Lance Johnson listed on eBay about a year ago. I would say without a doubt that Jay Howell and Candy Maldonado were also affected and possibly more on the top row of the A* Blue Sheet, the other cards on the top row are Ramon Martinez, Ricky Jordan, Andre Dawson, Stan Javier, Benito Santiago, Mike Witt, and Todd Burns.

Cliff--

Do you have a list by card number, not name??

Anybody??

I pulled a few of the dark blue border blue cards from holiday factory sets around 2007-2008. The only one I can recall with clarity was Doug Drabek with the blackless portion over the team name on front, like the Smiley.

None of them had the full, missing black ink like the Lance Johnson, Speier, but more like how the Smiley looks with a bit of gradient/fog to it.

All of the blackless green borders I found came from random collections and lots purchased in the PNW, I never pulled any from sealed product, unfortunately.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384672072649

far from an expert on these, but the bidding suggests this may be legit.

Someone is going to be sad when they get that. Hopefully they figure out it is bad while they can still get their cash back.

I am wary of any eBay seller who doesn't at least take the time and effort to crop out their bare feet in the pics :eek:.

Send seller a question asking if the auction includes everything shown in the pictures

Lol

I pulled all of the green sheet errors, including 3 Speiers and multiple Liebrandts, when I first discovered them in 2016. It was in a lot of 4 boxes and I had several Sammy Sosas that were all normal. Additionally, the Lance Johnson's were normal as well.

I believe the green sheet errors are significant because they occupy nearly the exact same locations on the uncut sheet as the orange sheet errors associated with the NNOF, and the blackless areas, although shaped differently, are sloped in a similar direction on the sheet.

Here they are with the sheets aligned:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

If you look at the sheets as they would be fed through the presses, the Speier error is in the same location as the Tapani. Meadows error lines up with Lawton, Alomar=Darrin Jackson and Leibrandt=Franco.

The existence of the Lance Johnson error is an outlier but it has not been found in the same packs as the Speier/Ford/Leibrandt errors so I can't come to a conclusion either way on that. The Ford and Carmelo Martinez errors occupy the locations of the Robin Ventura and the Bob Knepper so those two do not exactly align with the orange sheet but since the general shape is the same, that could have been a simple variation in how the negatives were placed in the plate exposing machine. I'd say there's a decent change they are related but it's nothing you could prove.

I'm also not optimistic PSA would recognize the errors at this time. They haven't done it for the numerous other partial blackless errors from the 1980's Topps sets so I can't see them make an exception unless someone was able to prove it was related to the NNOF errors, which is probably impossible. Also, I have a 1990 Topps Roger Clemens blackless that is missing half is name. A near miss HOFer from the steroid era, with the exact same printing plate flaw that caused the NNOF but they only authenticated it as a normal card, PSA 6.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw...-no?authuser=0

Good info. Thank you, West.

Don't forget about the red-less orange sheet cards. The missing red ink may have only affected one sheet and was likely pulled from the dumpster when you consider the condition of each one that has turned up (I own the Thomas and Wade Boggs AS). The pattern of missing ink is very similar to the sort of haphazard, diagonal swaths of the blackless cards.

Please post a pic of the Boggs AS.

The first one I encountered turned up on ebay way back when I was feverishly monitoring unlisted junk wax error cards (maybe 2004-2005ish) and it was another All-Star player in poor shape but I don't recall which one. If it were a star, I'd probably have remembered.

https://i.ibb.co/ZSFHZsp/90tredless.jpg

That's a neat error - provided it isn't the result of weather damage/sun bleaching - I wonder how they made it out of the factory? Have you ever seen more than one copy of an individual card?
Really does look like it was salvaged from a dumpster! And the error areas do resemble the blackless errors somewhat.

I am certain that it is not a sun damaged card due to the fact that the blue and yellow inks are entirely unchanged. Both colors remain vibrant while the red is missing or nearly missing in some spots.

To date, I have recorded just three total cards with the swaths of missing red ink, all orange sheet cards, all with damage. There could easily have been some that escaped me but I have only searched for them intermittently over the years.

Anybody got iron-clad proof of these coming out of packs?

Or just more highly doubtful stories?

The blackless cards and NNOF? There are dozens of first hand accounts of these coming out of packs on the internet. Not to mention a few Youtube and Facebook Live videos. If you don't believe this, what is your alternative theory and what is it based on?

In the "old days" (well before the tsunami of covid flipper-collectors), these folks used to pop out every so often with this question, seeding this "just curious" doubt around boards and shows and almost always, they'd eventually reveal that they are sitting on factory sets and/or pushing that they come from factory sets.

Same would apply to the George Bush cards.

Yeah, the NNOF card has long attracted scammers due to it being a relative standout value wise among 1985-1992 produced cards.

However, I don't think Lowpopper is fishing for anything here. They started this thread and seem genuinely curious at getting at the facts. I'm just wondering why Lowpopper is still wondering at the truth when there are pages and pages of research here all pointing to a mostly wax distribution for these errors. And 3 seconds of search engine work away are two Youtube videos of Brian pulling a Fisk and Russell partial blackless from Joe Schembri's PSA wax packs.

I just don't see how this is still a legitimate question at this stage in the research. Which makes me sad to see it still asked when I do love the thrust of the original thread.

Yeah, it is baffling to me, this whole pattern of "if I didnt see it, it isn't real." I have really only encountered it within the last two years, cardboard-wise.

Not sure if Lowpopper is the same guy who pops onto the Facebook group discussions for this card and always make the same-but-vague allegation but I've seen it few times recently.

A wise blind man one told me:

believe half of what you see, none of what you hear

This has been a very productive thread, and I will continue to contribute, but I won't be responding to your posts anymore.

Kaboom!

That's not fair. You should checkout his raffle thread or his thread that he got a rookie Mantle stolen. Maybe your opinion of him will change.:D

Ha, it's all good. This has been one of the most informative NNOF threads. Happy to continue to add to it in productive ways.

I'll tell you where I'm coming from.

I start off being highly suspicious of this card's origins solely due to the
George Bush Sr. card. Those came from the same geographical location
as the NNOF allegedly did. Off the bat, I'm skeptical. No serious trail of
boxes/cases has ever been sniffed out. How has nobody has ever traced
back to a solid source when they pulled this from a pack in the early 90s?
Nobody went back for more all after they pulled the first one?

Something of this magnitude would have been sniffed out given the attention
it got. It seems far too coincidental that a big find has never been unearthed.
If 100 Bush cards can walk out the back door, a similar number printer's
scrap sheets with Thomas's name missing could do the same.

Now I could be completely wrong, and it's likely these cards were just a fluke
staccato in the printing timeline. I suspect these were at least partially
supplemented by a group of cards exiting the factory not via packs.

When I do make an organic find, I'll fully retract my skepticism. I live in New
York 5 minutes from the Bush Sr. find. I see way more packs, boxes, cases
than your average bear out here. If these were pack delivered, they will be
pack found...by me :cool:

Happy Collecting!

My comments in blue

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125747663053

amazing how valuable this card has become, even in low grade condition

amazing how valuable this card has become, even in low grade condition[/QUOTE]



How in heck is that a 3??

Looks like a crease to the left of Frank's head. Other than that great eye appeal.