They won't be proven wrong by this bunch here :D

The guys who actually tested with footballs in Pittsburgh seems pretty compelling to me.. Average 1.8 drop in psi.

Ian, I hope you (and the scientists and professors) are correct about this. I would much prefer that Brady not be guilty, and I don't want to see the actual Super Bowl affected, regardless of anyone's guilt. On the other hand, a sh*t-storm for Goodell and the NFL is fine by me.

I do too, and hope it would just go away. I'd guess the vast majority of guys in the league (or anyone who's played), if answering honestly and not knowing who's involved would have said this is not a big deal. What's kind of lame, is it is a big deal now, and you'll get far fewer honest answers going forward. The viewing public will probably now demand all balls be protected in a vault until 1 min before kick off.. and they'll probably stick a camera on the ball handler, like done with cops, so the angry mob can be certain he's not tampering with the sacred balls in the bathroom.

rats--- I think you've served your purpose honorably in this battle. Now Raider Nation needs your activism against that ball fixer Brad Johnson and the 2002-03 Super Bowl Champion** Bucs.

** tainted due to cheating and overall scumbaggery of the lowest kind

To be fair, while researching the NFC Championship game, I found this pic.

Can anyone here squeeze a football to make it look like that? :eek:

I bet Tom Brady and the patriots touched that ball before the NFC championship game...you know, because we know they cheated and all :)

Can someone remind me why this is even a big deal? Is it because they supposedly cheated? Got caught cheating? Other nfl teams/fans/players are jealous? By now, we all know that every team has probably bent the rules at some point or another, but in most cases it's been swept under the rug, ignored, or possibly revealed to be made an example out of. I don't think cheating is ok, but what if the jaguars were caught wearing illegal cleats? Would we even care? I know this isn't the point, but they outscored the colts even more in the second half with fully inflated balls...giving us more reason to laugh about this whole thing.

I know we have the right to speculate, but we know nothing right now and will have to wait for the results before putting them in our fake prison.


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If I had arms like either of those guys I'm guessing I probably could.

But I don't. So the answer is probably not. Unless it's a nerf ball.

Steve B

NSFW Patriots Cialis Parody Commercial. https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=vd3D2gsPUR0

I thought this was pretty good

http://teamcoco.com/video/drew-brees...aWQiOjg3NDU0fQ


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Had an EX that could bust balls better than ANY NFL`er, past or present. O U C H !!

Thanks.

Any time someone is on the 'wrong' side of a discussion, they prefer that the discussion be terminated. But yes, this is a discussion forum.

I don't have a problem with speculation, it's just how people jump to conclusions so quickly. It only takes one person to say one thing and everyone believes exactly what they said to be true and nothing else matters :(

How are you coming up with that? We've discussed both sides and people are saying what they think is likely. None of us know what happened and obviously, many of the guesses presented here will be wrong. I already said that I hope I'm wrong about what I think likely happened.

I don't really know you but I've been discussing various OT football stuff with Ian for years and have a great deal of respect for his opinions. My tendency would usually be to agree with him, and he's swayed me on a few points in this discussion.

But when you have guys just saying that everyone is picking on the Patriots because we are "haters" or because of their "success" - that is classic deflection and doesn't win anyone to your way of thinking.

Scott...I don't care about swaying anyone, but what I'm talking about is how this thread started and a few of the people continue to close their ears to what is being discussed...and for the most part, you aren't one of them I'm talking about.

Fair enough.

Here's another angle for 'the atmosphere did it' guys: I located a photo last year of Ben Roethlisberger squeezing a ball to a point that it looked almost empty (during a play). Can't find it now, but I am surprised Patriot supporters haven't come up with a pile of such photos - it would certainly deflate the idea that, if anyone's doing anything, it's not limited to Brady.

I have to admit, if I had remembered that photo when deflate gate first started, I probably would have started out with a completely different mind-set, which can make a big difference.

Regardless of whether you believe the rule is stupid or that others do it, I still expect the NFL to penalize the Patriots when this is all said and done. Despite the outraged Robert Kraft demanding an apology unless “irrefutable” evidence is brought forth, that should not be and likely won’t be the level of proof employed by the league; rather a preponderance or “more probable than not” standard will be used. BTW, Kraft’s was another public presser faux pas, as the league had asked that comments be withheld during its investigation, and yet there’s defiance right out of the gate–or off the plane as it were-by the ersatz leader of Patriot Nation. Even sycophant Goodell cannot be pleased with that.

Interestingly, I had Letterman on in the background last night and his guest was Rachel Maddow, a diehard Patriots fan, who may have inadvertently done her team a disservice. I’m speaking third-hand and will defer to any more accurate accounts, but as I understand it, she spent time on her show poking fun at the whole incident and then asked one of her staffers or interns to re-create the whole 90 second bathroom scenario. She let him practice, then had him take two bags of 12 balls into the bathroom for 90 seconds to deflate as many as he could. He was successful on eight, which apparently satisfied her that it cannot be done as speculated. Now this guy is not a trained NFL equipment guy and has had at most a few hours of practice, yet he got through about 70% of the deflating, which also allowed for time removing and re-packing the balls in the bag. Personally I never thought the bathroom thing should be construed as the only factor, since the needle necessary to deflate is about the length of a man’s pinky finger and could easily be concealed in gloves or under a towel, etc. on the field. But I am curious to see if the NFL runs similar experiments with trained personnel as part of its investigation, as I was surprised that Maddow, who does not pretend to be a sports journalist or have any scientific insight and who is on record as loving the Patriots, still came somewhat close to burning her own team.

Please......Get a life. 6 Super Bowl appearances and you want to talk about footballs????? They outscored Baltimore 28-0 in the second half with brand new footballs. This is just insane....

Phil- sounds like you need some cheese with your whine...:D:D

Kevin, what if you knew without a doubt that Brady had asked an equipment manager to deflate the balls AFTER they had been approved and marked by the officials? Remember - you know, without a doubt. What option would you choose?

• punish Brady and/or Belichek
• do nothing, and the process for checking balls remains the same going forward;i.e-it's no big deal and doesn't affect the game, so in the future any qb can do this.
• no punishment, but change the rules so no one can change inflation in the future

That's easy you punish Brady with a suspension at the beginning of next season and if Belichek knew you take a first round draft pick and a second because their first round pick is basically the same as a second.

Then I ask them why would they do it when they obviously score more points with a fully inflated ball. ;)

The Colts must have gone scoreless in the second half bc they were tired from carrying the heavier ball.

Scott- absolutely punishment is in order, and severe at that. The Patriots could have beaten the Ravens using tennis balls. But that's not the point, it is still an integrity and ethics issue. The ball boy, if he did it, was told by someone to do it. The irony in all of this is that the two best teams are in the Super Bowl, IMO. Yes, Seattle pulled out a 1 in 100 miracle, but these are the two best teams in their respective conferences....

^^^i agree with Kevin

Thanks guys.

I was late checking in tonight. It's heartening to see everything copacetic and everyone generally in agreement, especially Scott and Mike! You guys were never too far apart. As Scott mentioned, we've had good some OT discussions over the years, and I've had some good ones with Mike ever since we locked horns during the 2012 WS (fueled largely on my end by alcohol and the post game mob after Pablo's 3 HRs) but ended in agreement. You guys are a couple reasons this board is awesome.

Couple quick nuggets, looks like it became "official" today, the NFL refs did not bother to log the pressure of the balls at halftime of the AFC Championship.. I knew they didn't care!... and the actual weight of the balls, under inflated or not is virtually the same.

I think before anyone is allowed an opinion in ths thread, they should at least get the teams right first. It was the Colts, not the Ravens. Just saying.


Obviously. You're just as confused as he is.

Obviously, you don't like other people to have their own opinions and why the cheap shot at Kevin and me? Sounds like you have an issue with him that runs deeper than this thread. Do us all a favor and man up a little and quit being petty...doubtful, but try.

Wasn't a cheap shot and no personal issues. You obviously didn't understand my statement. I didn't say anyone couldn't have an opinion. I said, they should know what they're talking about BEFORE having an opinion. Calling them the Ravens once is a mental mistake. Calling them the Ravens twice in two separate posts is ignorant.

So he mistakenly called the colts, the ravens...am I missing something that actually matters?

What's funny is that I remember when I read his comment and I thought to myself, they almost got beat by the ravens....but I agreed with the rest of it, so I went with it. All in all, not a big deal and not sure why you felt the need to be "that guy".

Yes, you sure are missing something. The Colts are NOT the Ravens. The Indianapolis Colts moved from Baltimore in 1984. The Baltimore Ravens came into the league in 1996. If you or Kevin can't tell the difference between the two, then watch a few more games and then make your comments. That way, it will at least look like you know what you're talking about.

Keep posting, you're just proving my point over and over.

BTW, since you mentioned "cheap shot" isn't starting a post with "Please......Get a life" a cheap shot? Or am I missing something?

Wow...miss the morning coffee or something? You are actually proving my point over and over by being a dick about something so petty. And at this point, it clearly shows that you have a problem with me, Kevin or both of us. I've never seen anyone make a big deal about someone accidentally saying the wrong team...ever. If you do, however, have a problem with me, I'd like to know so we can get to the bottom of it. I don't like to leave loose ends hanging around when we could easily resolve it like two men, not children.

Wow, an internet tough guy. Never seen one of those before.

Keep posting, you're just proving my point over and over.

Lol...tough guy? I want to talk about this underlying issue you have with me and I get a tough guy label? That's not fair, David. You should try to be sensible...you'd be surprised, it might just work in your favor! :)

What's this great point that you keep suggesting that is being made over and over? That you are incapable of accepting that someone made a simple mistake? Please share

Mike, if there is an issue between us, it's all in your head. I don't have an issue with you.

As far as calling a team by another name, we've already went over this. To do it once is a mental mistake. To do it twice is ignorance. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

If I called a T206 a 1952 Topps on the main board, someone might correct me. If I do it twice, it's ignorance.

Good to hear...you don't have an issue with me. That is what I wanted to know.

I see what you are saying about the team name being mentioned wrong, twice, but he clearly had Baltimore on the mind and I believe it was an honest mistake...don't you? I think it was just a coincidence that the colts used to reside in Baltimore and those two teams just played the pats...which might have got you more excited that he misspoke one team over the other. I think it had to do with the fact that the pats just played them rather than the initial reason.

Maybe it was. But when he starts his post with "Get a life..." it's probably not going to end well. I know it wasn't directed at me, but it doesn't matter. Until that point, the thread had been cordial, even if we do have differences of opinion.

Fair enough. And you are right...starting a post like that isn't a good way to get things going, it just stirs the pot. And I apologize, because I was so caught up in the ravens/colts mistake we were talking about that I didn't realize that the "get a life" post by Kevin was something that set you off as well.

I apologize too if I offended you.

Thanks Ian - we need more posts like this.

I think anyone who can have a heated discussion with opposing views, on the internet with a complete stranger, and it ends well - should be congratulated. When it involves football, probably moreso.

I will say this about Kevin - he's a great guy, and like a lot of people here, you need to spend 30 minutes with him on the phone and you'll understand that. And David and I have beaten each other to pulp before in these discussions, and I have no problems with him either. It takes a lot of time and I think Mike is a much quicker learner than some of the rest of us.

Also very glad to hear this about the footballs and the refs - looking forward to the ESPN and NFL Channel analyses today. I really did not like the idea of not liking Brady.

Please explain the logic of that statement. Whether they logged the balls or not before the game is not determinative. They were checked and found to be within spec, unless you're calling the ref a liar. If anything, the failure to log them in helps New England. If the actual inflation of the Pats footballs was closer to 13.0 than 12.5 then the amount of deflation at halftime was even greater. Since they were not logged the Pats are given the benefit of the doubt that they started at the lower 12.5 psi. This is not the refs not caring, this is common sense--why log in the starting point when the rate of inflation is irrelevant so long as the balls are within the acceptable range? It's where they go from there that matters most.

I am truly sorry for the mishap on the teams. I have been following pro football for 40 yrs, and it was just a simple mistake. Had I continued following the thread, I would have known of the mistake and corrected it in another post. I just now saw the last several posts of the thread 10 minutes ago. The only reason why I responded to the thread in the first place was the continuous moaning and groaning of the deflated footballs. Ironically, it was from a guy from Mass. My point was simply that the Patriots would have beaten the Colts no matter what shape the footballs were in. Having said all that, the Patriots should and will be punished strictly if this all proves to be of their knowing intentions....Thanks

I'm not sure where you take exception. I'm just saying the refs didn't log the pressures at half time when the ball were found to be low. Yes, this helps the Pats... And I think it also shows how little the refs, or the league cared about this before the media blew it way up. They simply filled the balls back up and player the 2nd half. IMO, it was Chris Mortensen and others blowing this up that made it a public controversy.

What is the point of a log?-- it was a pass/fail test. They noted that 11 balls failed--why note it at all if they did not believe it important? What should they have done--halted the contest, immediately toss a player or coach from the game, declare a forfeit? You can blame it on the media all you want-- seems a lot of ex-players and coaches have commented that they think it is worthy of discussion, criticism, investigation, etc. Then again, they could all be haters.

What's the point of a log?? Do you think if the NFL was serious to enforce this rule, they would not take note of how under inflated the balls were? By not doing so, they've left open all the possibilities these balls were under inflated due to atmospheric conditions. Had they logged and recorded that the 11 balls were at say 7-8 psi, they'd have a much better case to make against the Pats. As is, they didn't care to make a case. Why should we care about a league rule if the league didn't care?? (I go back to the example of the MLB base coach's box)

Also, do you truly trust all these ex players and coaches to be objective? (and please feel free to provide specific names/examples). I know one of my favorite all time players Jerry Rice said this controversy taints the Pats legacy, and that if they win the SB they deserve an asterisk, blah, blah. I love the Niners, and loved watching him play, but I think his comments were moronic. You can trust his opinions if you want, but this is coming from a guy who played on a team who's O-line coach Bob McKittrick taught players how to leg whip, make it look accidental, and in doing so may have often times severely injured guys while avoiding a flag... from a team who's D-line lathered its jerseys in vasoline so that O-linemen couldn't grasp their shoulder pads while trying to block...from one of the first teams to sow up their jersey sleeves so tacklers had nothing to grab at... and from a team that very possibly bypassed the salary cap and paid players under the table during its 1994 SB run. Jerry Rice himself fumbled 2-3 plays ahead of Terrell Owens' "The Catch II" but so effectively sold that he had not, the ref simply gave the ball back to SF. This just scratches the surface of questionable things done to gain an advantage, and this is in no way unique to the Niners (or Pats). In most cases people either ignore this stuff or call it gamesmanship.

I find it hard to believe guys like Rice are mostly speaking out based upon their sense integrity for the game. IMO, Jerry Rice said what he did because he doesn't want the Pats to challenge the Niiners' legacy, and smelled blood in the water. I've heard other Niners interviewed going back to around 2005 talking about not wanting Brady to ever match Montana's 4 SB rings, etc. I've also watched retired '72 Dolphins pop champagne every year when the last undefeated team loses. These guys can be just as petty and jealous as the next guy. I don't hold it against them, but it makes me take a lot of what they say with a grain of salt.

Back to the point of game ball air pressure, Steve Young, one of the more intellectual QBs (QB/JD) to ever play the game admitted on radio he never even knew there was a rule for air pressure. Again, it's been a non factor, non issue. I think just about every team in the league will do just about anything within its control (not necessarily within the rules) to create an advantage. I'm not saying this is always the right thing to do, just that it doesn't make the Pats an exception, and it doesn't justify their being singled out so far above and beyond other teams (no one's talking about Brad Johnson's bribing someone to work in SB game balls). If the NFL has strong evidence the Pats cheated, great, punish them and move on. However, even if guilty, IMO this violation is way down the list of violations that occur on a regular basis.

Just found this little nugget from 1988... vaseline, stickum, silicone, even Coca Cola. This is a great peak at what the NFL has always been, and what it still is.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/2...AL.html?pg=all

It is incredibly weak to suggest that a league that fines its players for wearing the wrong colored socks, gloves or wrist bands does not take seriously a rule that directly impacts on the fairness of competition. Yes, the NFL could mark each ball with a number before the game, measure the psi and log it, then do the same at halftime. At halftime or after the game they could then preserve any balls that were found to have deflated in a controlled atmosphere and under quarantined conditions, so that any team accused of deflating them could have its “atmospheric” experts come in to perform their own measurements without fear of a “contaminated” environment. Only then can we conclude the league is serious? Actually, all balls will need to be quarantined, including, say, those used by the Indianapolis Colts, none of which lost more than 1.0 psi (if they lost any at all) while nearly all of the Patriots’ balls fell by more than that, so we can listen to people guess, contort and postulate how different handling and other conditions explain away the apparent contradiction. Only then can we conclude that this is a serious rule and that it was violated.

How about just having the footballs delivered by armored truck to the field, where they are measured before all who care, then given to the custody and control of only NFL-employed ballboys for handling during the game? It may well now come to pass that the league will insist on a uniform psi for all teams, that it will inflate the balls itself to exactly that specification, and there will be no discretion for individual teams’ tastes. Your QB doesn’t like the level of pressure, get over it or get a new QB. Part of me wonders why this has not happened already. Pitchers don’t get to take a bag of hand-selected balls out to the mound with them, the Spurs don’t grab a rebound and then ask for a different basketball while they are on offense, etc. Seems like a fair resolution to me.

I have not heard one current or former player or coach ever cop to changing the inflation of footballs before or during a game. Most QBs will admit that the lower inflated balls would be easier to throw in certain or maybe all conditions–this from Tarkenton is typical:

Q: What are your thoughts on `Deflate-gate,’ Fran?

A: “This has been going on for a lot of years. We always rubbed the balls down and got them ready when I played. But we didn’t, in my era, deflate the balls. When you deflate the balls, it’s easier to throw it and easier to catch it. And you don’t fumble as much.

“It is wrong. And the NFL has said nothing. Nothing.”

Despite the fact that most QBs consider it advantageous to have the balls under-inflated and most also conceded to have “worked up” the footballs, you would think it would have occurred to them to outright deflate them. Yet it seems none did. Why not, one could wonder, especially if the league did not consider that a serious rules violation. Perhaps the players thought it would be cheating (see Tarkenton) and/or that the league could consider it so. You think?

...

Todd - I guarantee you other quarterbacks have been doing it. I saw a photo of Ben Roethlisberger holding onto a football like it was a nerf ball. Impossible with normal inflation. Wish I could find that pic again.

I do not doubt the balls can easily be marked. The rest of the requirements to make for a controlled environment and avoid these "atmospheric" arguments could be considered rather extreme and oppressive, however. Still, I suppose they could be done--presume cheaters and take all precautions, I guess. That does not mean their absence shows a lack of concern by the league, however.
I still like my solution better--take all discretion and team preferences out of the equation and have the league keep control of the footballs through all steps. Everybody plays with the same balls-- in fact, no need to have different balls on each sideline, then there is no incentive to alter for advantage. Even your K ball example acknowledges that both teams use the same ball, and that really only one or two are used during a game, which is a different scenario altogether than what happened here.

Sorry Scott, whatever pics you show me, I'm not buying your guarantee. If someone comes forward and admits it, I'll change my stance. I simply find it hard to believe that the Steelers-- a routinely successful team un-liked by many and with at least one hated rival, apparently have not been challenged for this same conduct. Nor have others. I refuse to drink the kool-aid that this vast group of people is just out to get the Patriots. You might think that at least one former player--maybe one looking for attention or with simply no concern about fallout--would step forward and say this ball deflation happens regularly. I just can't see such a diverse group of football people from different eras all closing ranks and declining to admit that this happens. Now, if one or two did come forward I would likely remain skeptical about their assertions and would look closely at them, but I would at least expect to see that much happen and as yet, it has not.

Well, let's see what Brad says:

"I feel like my name has been slandered by using the word bribery," Johnson told Pro Football Now Wednesday afternoon, saying that he tipped equipment managers as he normally would, not specifically to scuff game balls."This has been blown way out of proportion," Johnson texted. "Rich Gannon and I had met the week of the Super Bowl and agreed to work the balls in the week of the Super Bowl, just like we would do for any other game. The balls were used by both teams and fair for everyone. I really don’t understand what the big deal is. Rich Gannon and I talked today, too, and we both laughed at the nonsense of this story.

"I never touched the balls before the game. And no one ever complained, be it the refs, players or quarterbacks. We [he and Gannon] were both fine with all the balls that we played with."

So in summary:
1. No bribery;
2. No deflation of balls, just scuff/rubbing as now allowed but not then;
3. Done with full knowledge and consent of opponent; and most importantly
4. No advantage--balls used by both teams "and fair for everyone".

Maybe that's why nobody's talking about it.

What if someone had called out the Steelers 5 years ago? 10 years ago? 15 years ago? even 40 years ago? If the Steelers were called out for the same thing 40 years ago, you could still have said that it makes no sense that others cheated before them, because some other team would have gotten called out for it at some point up until 1975. There's a first time for everything, and the Patriots are the first - that's my opinion, but obviously I can't prove anything.

Well why wouldn't someone speak out and admit it if it happened 5, 15, 40 years ago? Enough time has passed that they likely would face no repercussions. Maybe a ball-boy or equipment manager who hasn't been involved in football for decades and who really has no legacy to tarnish, if that's even a concern for others. Hell, maybe a tell-all book from such a guy who needs $$$ or who wants his 15 minutes of fame. Yet not a peep. All the more mysterious if it's not that big a deal as some here have suggested-- you'd think it would have popped up in one player or coach's autobiography or another over the past 50 years if it was no biggie or if it was widespread. Show me, please.

Very good points, but I don't think anyone cared. I think the former quarterbacks who are speaking out are the ones who did not deflate balls and I think the guys who did deflate balls are keeping their mouths shut...for now. It's very possible that some ex-qb will eventually come forward and say that he did the same thing.

And of course, it's also possible that Brady didn't do anything, which makes this whole discussion an exercise in revisionist history...at least my parts, anyway :)

Actually Scott, I will stand corrected, at least somewhat, as Terry Bradshaw wrote that teams commonly deflated balls before 2000. That may be why it was not a huge topic of discussion.

“Some teams—who were not the Steelers—after the officials had checked and approved the game balls, would let out a couple of pounds of air to make it easier for the quarterback to grip it. A little less air would make the ball spongier."

Most importantly, however, he noted that both teams played with the same ball.
And there's the rub, so to speak. Which again makes me wonder why that rule is not in place today--both sides using the same ball. There is far less incentive to cheat when your opponent has the exact same equipment or when he can easily and often feel for himself that some league spec is not being followed and he perceives a disadvantage.

I agree with your solution, and I bet it gets implemented. You can say it was because Goodell read your post here, and I won't dispute you :)

I DON'T CARE EITHER. I only brought it up as an example to show a media double standard towards the Pats. I don't care how it's portrayed, Johnson was not supposed to do this. However, you and others seem willing and able to draw lines which make Johnson's actions OK, and the alleged actions by the Pats (key word alleged), which will likely never be proven, not OK. I also love how a line is drawn as to whether he deflated the balls or not.. how has deflating balls become the end all be all of unfair advantage? And why do you assume all QBs would prefer to have had that ball scuffed up. Whatever he may say about it, Gannon threw 4 picks in that SB. Apparently Elway always wanted game balls straight out of the box, so it would have been a disadvantage to him had the opposing QB paid someone to scuff the game balls. Johnson shouldn't have done what he did... however, I say again, I don't care that he did.

Football has just been played differently than other sports like baseball. Teams have had the ability to customize the game balls to some extent (whether legal or not), and I personally have no issue with it. I've brought it up a few times, and you can take it as relevant or non-relevant to this discussion.. but HS and college teams chose their own game balls (stamped with their logo), and that in some cases, these footballs are totally different. Hold a Wilson 1005 compared to a Wilson 1001 circa 2000, and it's a TOTALLY different football. The NFL ball Terry Bradshaw is referring to is different also. The old balls were slimmer in your hand and are definitely easier to throw then current balls.

I'm on the other side of argument, and think the NFL should just let these guys do what they want, short of using stickum, or playing with totally flat balls. Some QBs want more pressure, some want less, and I'm totally fine with allowing them to do that. Any NFL QB can throw a ball that's less than ideal (high or low pressure, worn, wet, muddy), but if one pressure feels more comfortable to him than another, it's all good to me. I think most of this stuff is mental anyway.. I think it's more important that Brady feels comfortable with the ball, and thinks it's at the right pressure, as opposed to gaining a strong advantage using a softer ball. That said, I'd be nearly certain that going forward all teams lose the ability to touch the ball prior to the game.

Per the link I'd included, stretching the rules or outright cheating are a part of this game. I'm not arguing it as right, but football is dirty as hell, and anything you can imagine would create an advantage has been tried. In saying this, I think most of those violations listed in that article had greater impact on games. I think a D line with silicone or vaseline all over their jerseys has more effect on a game, as on every play they are more likely to slip blocks, more likely to be held, etc. I think leg whipping is even worse because it jeopardizes careers. I think the level of advantage gained, or danger created, by a given rules violation should have equal impact on the way it's handled/disciplined by the league. For this reason, I just don't care much at all about the deflate gate... and had the press not blown this up, I don't think the NFL would have either.

Regardless of the differing opinions, let's watch the game!!! :D

Amen! I'm ready for some football!

Go Hawks!!!!!

.

Then I'll wait for your report, oh keeper of the facts.

Way to jump to conclusions that we are jumping to conclusions. I thought we were having a discussion?

.

Unless there is a body, a smoking gun and someone standing over it covered with blood, you are jumping to conclusions and should not discuss? Okay.

Classless Seahawks lose lolllolololol let the bitching begin bwahahahahha

I'm neither a Seahawks or pats fan. But I find it funny you talking about class. Hahahahahahahaha. Patriots are Probably one of the most classless team in all of sports and Boston is one of the most classless cities in America.

Troll got fed fast. Btw seattle is an awesome city. Just a little poor sportsmanship on my part.

Congrats to Pats Nation!

Excellent game, great playmaking on both sides of the ball, a dash of questionable play calling and some no-names on both teams making big plays. Congrats to the Pats on SB #4. The fracas at the end was unfortunate but doesn't mar an otherwise great game.

I doubt very much if ANY Super Bowl will EVER match the series of plays that happened in the last minute of this game.

Manningham & Tyree flashed thru my mind on that pass play--another unbelievable loss, and then---the Good Lord served up some JUSTICE!

Lol. Look who's talking.

Brock, the Seahawk fans (not including those that post here, which have been nothing but top notch) I have seen on the internet in the last few weeks have been some of the most vulgar, classless excuses I have ever seen in sports discussions. I am so glad that the Seahawks lost. I am only sorry that Russell Wilson had to throw the losing pick. But I am glad that Pete Carroll got to lose in gut wrenching fashion on the biggest stage.

Congrats to the pats and their fans...great game! Fred, I bet you're happy right now...take it all in, buddy!

Wow............
 

Man that was a hell of an exciting game, just what the NFL ordered after the last 2 weeks of sideshows. Belickick/kraft/Brady really wanted this one and their remarks after the game proved it. All championships are special but this one really feels great, down 10 in the 4`th against this def. was a hell of a chore. I`d say 86 Sox, Pats/Rams, and maybe a tie for 3`rd between 2011 Bruins and tonite`s win is how I`d rank them. Seattle will be back, get Wilson a WR, and as long as Bel-Brady are around the Pats will remain a contender. On to pitchers and catchers !!!!!!

Congrats to the Patriots and their fans on an exciting Super Bowl win.

I'm sure Fred is REALLY HAPPY. Congrats Fred.

Congrats to the Pats and their fans. What an amazing game, and 4th quarter comeback.

I hope this thread topic dies down along with the story.

Wow.

Well, I'm happy for you Bill.

It was great - no one can take those two 4th-quarter touchdown drives away from Brady. And even if Wilson had not thrown that pick, the Pats might have made a goal-line stand against Lynch. There's no telling.

I would be much more okay with losing the game if I could have woken up this morning and not read some of the tripe posted by people here who I used to respect. Really classless behavior.

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Definitely not unique to him, but I did think his comments about deflate gate were moronic (and said so here). Charles Haley's comments ("Joe Montana didn't need to cheat", "lost all respect for Brady", etc) yesterday were really stupid as well.

Another double standard, I'm not seeing much outcry over the Falcons blaring extra stadium noise. It's being reported, being discussed some, but definitely not generating the backlash deflate gate did. I think it can easily be argued that blaring crowd noise/supplemented by speakers would have a greater effect on games than deflated balls. If you neutralize the line's ability to hear their protection audibles, the QB's ability to audiblize, or even clearly hear his helmet speaker, it's going to greatly hinder an offense.