We could just get Gizmo to bring the popcorn..:)

If only we could get these two to debate each other... I think that would be fun...

That would be very helpful, Dave. Thanks. Send it to me in a pm.

The reason they are saying the cards are in Spain is because it is illegal to do business with Cuba. You cannot export items from Cuba to the United States. If they said the items were in Cuba, eBay would shut the auctions down. That is why in the auction description, in addition to using my name and lying about me endorsing the cards, they also say "THESE IS A PRE 1959. PRE EMBARGOED ITEM FOUND IN SPAIN. NOT BE JUDGE BY THE EBAY RULES OF EMBARGOED ITEMS."

This, of course, is not true, which eBay will know about tomorrow. If the seller(s) could just resist the urge to run their mouths, I suspect all of this would be playing out quite differently.

For the record, I am still on the fence about the cards. I do think it's possible they are real. But there are so many red flags, I don't see how anyone could feel confident about them now. If eBay shuts the auctions down, maybe that will give Rolando a shot at buying them, which would actually be a happy ending in my opinion. I'm still rooting for them to be real, but it looks less and less likely by the minute, it seems.

-Ryan

Also, I would like clear something up about the way Cuba and, more importantly, Cubans are being made to look in this thread. Granted, almost all of it is self-inflicted. But I feel like it's important to say that on the whole, the people of Cuba are the kindest and most generous people I have ever met in any country. Most have very little, but they want to share whatever they have with you. They are extremely friendly, to each other and to visitors. The island itself is one of the most unique places on the planet. It would be a huge mistake to judge the people of Cuba based on the behavior of a handful of them in this thread. There is horrific poverty there, yet it is an island overflowing with riches much more important than money: La Gente!

-Ryan

Well said Ryan. Well said.

Maybe a stupid question and I don't know if somebody has already brought it up, but if the cards in question were produced in Cuba, for the Cuban market, to be bought and sold by Cubans, why is "Batting Average" and "Fielding Average" printed on the back in English? Seems weird to me that two lines are in English and everything else is in Spanish. Why not print them in just Spanish or English?

Yes, this was brought up before, but it's a good question and worth addressing again. For me, this makes the cards seem more real, not less. The Romeo y Julieta boxing cards are wildly inconsistent and quirky in that same kind of way.

-Ryan

Ryan,

I understand the embargo issue with the cards. What threw me was the seller saying they and the cards were in Spain and then the very next day the seller showing themselves with Rolando and the cards together.

I didn't get how Rolando was in Cuba one day and then in Spain looking at the cards the next day. I didn't know if Rolando just hopped on a plane and flew overnight to Spain or if the cards (and the seller) was in Cuba and they were trying to skirt US law and ebay rules.

Again, unknown Cuban cards found in Spain lends mroe credence to them being real than unknown Cuban cards being in Cuba......

David

I like applesauce.

i have the cards here in Cuba and i will be travelling tomorrow
 

to Spain. They were found in Cuba but I said that in Spain in ebay description to not close the auction for embargoed rules. I told that to ryan when I spoke with him by phone.

Rolando about the polars. He was the first to
 

SAID THAT THE polar cards were fakes. He was the first expert to saw them and inmediatly he said cards are not originals. After that the owner sell them to two seller in Ebay: vicuellar and kubaneo (NOT FOUNTAINPENS). When cards were put in auction in ebay, some American "experts", including Ryan called Rolando to know his opinion and he confirmed them that they are fakes. Thas is what he said me yesterday about that. he even remembered the sellers in Ebay. I will be out of the post for 2 days because I will be travelling to Spain. Cards will be send by FEDEX to winner. thanks very much. Bye

I am very sorry for by rude but i don't know what to do how defend me against people
 

who don't know me and said cards are fakes. that said that I made fakes. People who apologized for his word and after that continue doing the same but wrote me private e mails. I convinced Rolando to talk his opinion as an expert in this forum and even that not work. I really very sorry for all this. I am very happy for the price of the cards but I now this is not all. For me is more important people know I not sell fakes items, Check my feedback, I sold one item in 10 000 and it was not fake. I don't know why Ryan continues attacking. God will be his judge. And if he come to Cuba in the future, I will found him here to ask him WHY.

When were they found in Cuba?

So the origins story on eBay is false and designed to evade American law? Yikes!

Romeo y Julieta cards
 

Since my name has been listed by the seller of the Romeo y Julieta cards in the eBay description, and in this forum, without my permission, I thought I should add what I know to the discussion. I have known of the existence of the Romeo y Julieta cards for a few years now. My first impression upon seeing images of the cards brought up many red flags. Since I did not get to inspect the cards personally I decided not to add them to my Cubanball web site. At the beginning of this discussion I was contacted by Rolando from Cuba via email stating adamantly that this group of cards currently on eBay are real. I respect Rolando’s opinion highly and added the cards to my web site. Still I am not 100% convinced either way. To assist with the discussion here is what I have been able to discern about the cards based on the images we have available. I am concentrating on the Almendares cards since those are the ones that are causing the most concern.

Carlos Royer:

Front of card: The card pictures Carlos Royer in Almendares uniform. The same photo used in the Punch set. The picture is cropped and the background whited out. It is possible that the picture is whited out because it came from a newspaper archive. Newspaper would sometimes white out backgrounds when adding a photo of a player to a story. The card has the team name “ALMENDARES” hand written in white at above the player photo and his name “Calos Royer,” his nickname “Bebe” and position “P.” hand written in white below the player photo. Note the “R” missing from his first name. The front of the card has some creasing and stains that could be natural or added purposely to show age.

Back of card: The back of the card has the players name and nickname, spelled correctly, team name and “Serie 1911.” This is interesting since Carlos Royer was indeed with Almendares for the 1910 Cuban league championship but was with Club Fe in 1910-11 season. Next you have his “Batting Average” and “Fielding Average.” A few at this forum have question the fact that they are written in English, but this is not a problem. Cubans learned baseball in the U.S. and from Americans in the island and Cubans were familiar with the English baseball terms. Many early Cuban baseball publications are replete with English baseball terms. Also it is not strange to list a pitcher’s batting average since back then a pitcher would likely play the field in games he was not pitching in and off course bat on days he pitched. Now we get to the stats themselves. I have been unable to place the year of the batting average stats listed. The 8 J (games), 20 V (at-bats), 2 C (runs), 5 H (hits), and 250 Ave do not match his regular season totals for any of his seasons as listed on the 1956 Beisbo Cubano (Records y Estadisticas) by Gabino Delgado and Severo Nieto. I also checked the Negro Leagues Database as well. Another possibility, which makes more sense, is that the stats reference the “American Series.” In 1911 Almendares played four games against the Phillies and six games against the Giants. Unfortunately I do not have any American Series source for comparison. The card has printed the “Obsequio de los Cigarros ROMEO y JULIETTA” that identify the maker. The back of the card also shows aging. The card was not cut entirely straight with the bottom showing signs of hand cutting.

Estaquio Pedroso: The same format applies to the front and back of the cards of the Pedroso card as the Royer card. I will concentrate on the differences.

Front of card: Pedroso’s name is written correctly on the front of the card. The cards shows less wear and staining than the Royer card.

Back of card: The card lists him playing for “Almendares” and the series as 1915 (Serie 1915). Pedroso did play for Almendares in the 1914-15 season and in the 1915 American series. Almendares played 9 games against the Indianapolis ABCs in the 1915 American Series which match the number of games in the stats on the back of the card. The aging is similar to the Royer card and the cut is inconsistent as well.

Emilio Palomino: The same format applies to the front and back of the cards of the Palomino card as the Royer and Pedroso cards.

Front of card: Palomino’s first initial and last name is written in the front of the card. Along with his position as R. F. (right field).

Back of card: The back, like the Royer card, list the team as Almendares and the series as 1911. According to my sources Palomino did play with Almendares in the regular 1910-11 season. Again the stats would be consistent with the American Series, but not the regular season. The back shows more foxing than the other cards and the cut is slightly off on one edge.

Evaristo Pla: The same format applies to the front and back of the cards of the Pla card as the other cards.

Front of the card: Pla’s full name is written correctly on the front of the card along with his position as “Director.”

Back of the card: There are no stats since he is correctly listed as Director and Trainer for Almendares. The back shows aging consistent with the other cards. The cut is straighter than the others.

As for the years of the cards I agree with Ryan, based on the match between the back of the Falagan and Pla cards, that they were printed in the same year very likely circa 1922. I hope this adds some constructive information to the discussion.

Thanks for your excellent input, Cesar. In your opinion, how confident would you say you are that they are real? I don't want to speak for him, but it sounds like Rolando is 100% confident. A few days ago, I was around 75% confident. Right now, more like 50%. How about you?

-Ryan

Romeo y Julieta cards
 

Ryan, I would agree with your assessment. I would say that my first glance of the cards gave me the impression that they may have been faked. Then after hearing from Rolando and taking a closer look at the cards now on eBay I swung more to the real side. Again, this is all based on examination of the images and attempting to figure out some of the enigmas surrounding the set. The use of the punch photos, the reference back to the 1911 and 1915 series, ect. In my estimation many of the enigmas can be explained if the set is real. It is possible that Romeo y Julieta put out a set around 1922 with Amateur players and with Almendares players referencing back to the heyday of the American Series. They could have used photos from a Cuban newspaper archive that had used the same photos used in the punch cards, which can also be found in some publications. The set may have been a test and only a few may have been printed leading to little being known about them. All this is possible. But, we both know to what extent unscrupulous people have gone to fake Cuban baseball cards. So every time I see cards never seen before it always puts me on the defensive. Right now I want to believe they are real but the doubts have not gone away completely.

Thanks Cesar.... your insight is very helpful
 

I know that you don't typically like to get involved in this "stuff", but I know that the general population appreciates your feedback and insight. Thanks again.

Following the advices of some friends
 

I would like to tell Ryan that I tried to removed your name from the ebay items but it was impossible because item has bid
I like to apologize to you for by rude but in some occasions is because my English is very bad and others because I feel very bad cause
Your are the experts, I am just a seller.
Please let the auctions in ebay.
I am leaving at 8.00 o clock to Spain.

Thanks to cesar
 

Cesar, I am very sorry for used your name with out your permission. You have a great site.

My last act of good willing. I wrote to ryan
 

Ryan, I won like to made danger to the world of collectors of Cuban baseball cards. I would accept what do you suggest I can do with the cards. Please let me know if you want I close them from ebay and I will send them to you. then you can revise them personally. After that you can do what you think is the best is they are originals 1-Return them to me to list them in ebay again 2-Sell them in your site for a commission 3-Buy them from me. If they are fakes, YOU CAN DESTROY THEM.
LET ME KNOW AS SOON AS YOU CAN. I have to travel in some hours.

Ernesto,

I just replied to the message you sent me privately. I didn't realize you also posted your message on the board. Generally I do not like when people post private messages on the public forum, but feel free to post my response if you so desire. I can sum it up for people here by saying that I am back to Dr. David Banner status, albeit with lots of shredded clothes. I have called off the dogs for now.

Thanks for your message,

-Ryan

i have permission from Ryan to put his answer
 

Ernesto,

Thank you for your message. I appreciate your gesture of good will. All I ask is that you remove my name from the eBay listing. I would not be interested in buying the cards for myself, nor would I be interested in selling them as I am still not confident about their authenticity. I have not called eBay yet today. Since you sent this message, I will not be calling them. I am glad, because this is something I was really hoping I wouldn't have to do. I am not trying to ruin your business, even though you do damage to mine when you imply that I have endorsed cards that might not be real. My reputation, professionally, is important to me. It's one thing to attack me personally. It's very different went you start impacting my professional reputation, and that is what you did by putting my name in your ebay auction. That's why I was so angry about it.

It has always been about whether or not the cards are real. I wish I had the opportunity to look at the cards in person. I don't need you to end your auction or send me the cards, especially since there is already a bidder. But perhaps you could let the winning bidder know that I would very much like to view them in person. In fact, I would be willing to pay a small amount for that opportunity. If they are real, I think it's fantastic and would like for them to known as real. I never said they were fake. I've only been saying I have many doubts about them. I do think it's very possible they are real.

So, thank you for your message. Hopefully we can treat each other more respectfully moving forward.

-Ryan

MANNY I UNLOCKED if you want to bid in the cards
 

Sorry for all what I did. I feel bad with all this. i am trying to fix all what i did bad and made all from the beginning.

No hard feelings Ernesto, I do feel bad that Ryan and Cesar had to get dragged through all of this though but hopefully only good will come out of it.

Not sure what you have decided to do with the cards but I think giving Ryan a chance to actually feel and examine the cards sounds like the best route to take.

Thank you for unblocking me (again) but I too will not be bidding.

I am hoping in the end these cards are 100% legit though, not only for you sake but it would be great for all Cuban baseball card collectors to see a new discovery.

Steve

Well, folks, that concludes another exciting episode. Stay tuned next week when we'll be discussing the Shroud of Turin and Grilled Cheesus....

No...too Jewish.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...ins/Korman.jpg

Taggart: I got it! I know how we can run everyone out of Rock Ridge.

Hedley Lamarr: How?

Taggart: We'll kill the first born male child in every household.

Hedley Lamarr: [after some consideration] Too Jewish.

UPDATE OF THE romeo y julieta baseball cards
 

Pedroso card 655 euros
Boyer card 222 euros
Both buyers paid and they read the posts in this forum. I ask one of them send the card to Ryan to check it.
the winner of the other 3 auctions decide don't pay. EBAY ID OF WINNER THANT DIN'T PAY: x-men94

If you're trying to out a non-paying buyer, it would help if you posted their name. Not much time has passed since the auctions ended, though. It's possible that they're a late payer and not a non-payer. If the bids are legit, that is.

-Ryan

Ernesto,

I looks very suspicious that 3 of the 5 lots had bids that were not paid for. By not revealing the name of high bidder, it makes it seem like you had someone bid on them for you to make them seem real. Once again you are not doing yourself any favors here. It also does not help that after my repeated requests, you still did not remove my name from your auction description. Fortunately, I know both of the winning bidders for the other two cards. Interestingly enough, the name of the winner of one of those cards was also mentioned in your auction description as someone who deemed the cards to be authentic. I guess that doesn't necessarily mean there is a conflict of interest, but all of this is not filling me with confidence that these cards are real.

So, I'll ask you again, what is the name of the non-paying bidder?

-Ryan

If the person authenticating cards that are suspicious is a winning bidder then, to me, that is a conflict of interest. Actually, it is probably more negative that the 2 of them sold the way they did than if they didn't sell at all.

I tend to agree with you, Leon, but we don't know whether or not he actually authenticated them, or just had his named used like mine was.

-Ryan

Who won?
 

Who won the two auctions? Are they sending you the cards Ryan?

One of the winners is sending me the one card he won.

-Ryan

NAME OF BIDDER WHO WON AND din't pay is Tom poon irvine FROM california
 

To people that can think I bid myself this is the NAME OF BIDDER WHO WON AND din't pay is Tom Poon from IRVINE, cALIFORNIA. EBAY ID IS x-men94

I was checking and many of his points are from bidders.He is a seller.
 

He is a seller on ebay.

Who doesn't like Poon from Irvine?

Great. Please post your thoughts

Al

Al,

Not meaning to get off subject, but that is an incredible collection that you have.

Great porn name.

Update about the cards
 

Just to let know all the people in this forum that I am transparent. I will let you know the last news about the cards.
1-I change the two almendares card that the winner in ebay din't pay to Rolando, the Cuban collector for other Cuban baseball cards
2-I sent all the amateurs card and the Carlos boyer card to traviswise23 in ebay who won the auction. He sent all the card to Ryan and this is what Travis wrote me after 5 days that the "expert" need to examining the cards:
"he mailed the cards back to me today....

after examining them he said he's
still unsure of their authenticity, especially the almendares ones.
therefore I woukd like a refund for the one I bought.

however, he did feel
good about the amatuer players and I was curious what ifs th least you
would accept for one of those?

-travisw23

I will let him know that I want 200 for each amateur and that I will made him the complete refund for the cards he bought in 315.00 after he return me all the cards
THANKS VERY MUCH TO ALL PEOPLE INTERESTED.
Ernesto

real or not
 

finally does anyone know if they are real or not?
I love Cuban cards so would like to know!

Ryan,

Have you received one of these cards to inspect?

FYI - Sent you a private message about this thread.

Thanks!

Royer Example
 

Adding my example to the fray. I am a long time collector of Cuban and South American baseball issues, and have found this discussion to be very helpful in trying to gain a better understanding of this obscure issue.

FWIW, I am convinced this is a legit and authentic issue.

R & J Amatuer cards
 

I have 3 amateur r&j baseball cards my opinion
looks real
looks very similar to a nacioncales issue or aguiltas Cuban issue.
one expert I know says real.
thanks

I just came back from cuba and while I was there I picked up several baseball cards and 9 of the super rare boxing cards! One will not upload for some reason.
[
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4f6500be1d.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...48df83d174.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...b3d46656a7.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...d7da89b81b.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...00db949c5f.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your pictures are huge so you need to resize them. Your pic that won't load is likely way too big for Leon's uploader to handle, or you have used up too much bandwidth/space?

Depending on your system, find one that works and install it if you already, unknowingly, don't have one?

I use/trust Filehippo as it's the cleanest site to download from, imo.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=windo...icture+resizer

Good luck. :)
Nice cards, BTW!

Attachment 276038Attachment 276039


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm using the app from my phone. It has the option for photo or attachment. I'll try the attachment which seems to be smaller


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They're all showing up just fine. Thanks for bumping a cool old thread, too.

X2. Those are much better. :)

As a guy that used to get punched in the head a lot, those look awesome! Thank you for sharing them.

A couple more with a Pittsburgh connection including Harry "The Pittsburgh Windmill" Greb and Benny Leonard, part owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates NHL club:

Leonard is one with a pose variation

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibit...eonard%201.jpg

Same card #

baseball
 

I thought this thread was about the baseball
Cards romeo y julieta in question not boxing?