FBI investigation concluded
 

The FBI investigation is over after going through my data on how some stars
shouldn't be on top of certain packs and taking a close look and examining packs that i passed by PSA, the agents agreed that they were pretty bad jobs
in my part and they were surprised they got authenticated and in fact graded
one of the agents went on to say that i proved that Steve Hart
is bad at his job and being bad at his job is not a crime.

Can you disclose which packs were fabricated and did any leave your possession. This will help for those who own unopened PSA star packs. Thanks.

What about all the packs you sold people-- both online via eBay and in off-eBay transactions?

Matty
i sold many graded packs to people (customers) in fact i sold you
a couple of them and when you found out about the FBI investigation
you acted like a scared boy and dump them to someone else, instead
of confronting me and PSA on the matter, as far as you know you sold bad packs to other people.

Are you thinking you should be celebrated?

Also you haven't answered the question about passing along bogus packs into the hobby? Instead you hurl an insult at the person asking the question. I have nothing invested into this other than it sickens me to see fraud and cheating in a hobby I really enjoy. If these responses are all you can add why reignite the thread?

Actually, Jose, of the two packs I bought from you, I sold both of them LONG BEFORE your activities and the FBI investigation became known, so I could buy an expensive card. And at the time I sold those packs, I was very torn about parting with them because they were among my favorite pieces.

Had I still owned them after this thread became known to me, I would have confronted both you and PSA.

The one time I suspected I had some altered items (trimmed cards in this case), I drove them down to Joe Orlando and PSA, and they reviewed them and bought them back to be destroyed. I didn't sell those cards I suspected were trimmed and instead got perhaps less from PSA because I care about my name in the hobby.

What a great guy..

+1...well met, Jeff.

Wow. As a pretty new member to this board I had never read any of this. First thing that comes to my mind is I always considered unopened packs the easiest thing in the world to fake. Especially wax packs. A little heat and you could open and close em at will. Don't know much about cellos, beyond my time as a collector, but I expect they could be opened and closed and easily faked as well.

Amazed.......
 

The downfall of this world will be the lack of morality in men!

It's amazing to me how this goes from you creating FAKE cello packs, to a "Steve Hart" doesn't know how to do his job. Steve is probably the most honest individual in a hobby that's littered with filth and fraud, and you come on here and frankly go out of your way to make a statement like you have above about Steve not be good at his job. The fact that your trying to play this out like you're some sort of crusader makes me want to puke.

http://www.doctormacro.com/Images/La...20Hardy_02.jpg

"So - you invested our life savings in PSA-graded cello packs? WELL HERE'S ANOTHER FINE MESS YOU'VE GOTTEN US INTO!"

Like i said earlier in the thread all the packs that i personally altered and
got grated are still in my possession and all have clear signs of being
altered, the problem with young collectors is that they have no clue how
to id the real thing and counterfeiters on ebay keep making star packs
with certain stars that never came on top because of the manufacture
pattern and these fake packs keep making it into PSA holders for example
below i have a picture of a Mike Schmidt on top that i made one huge
problem Schmidt never came in the top section only the bottom and that
can be easily proven.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8a0369c5.jpg




CU members aconite and daveG offered as much as $1250.00 for the pack since it is rare
sure it didn't come from topps if i was a scammer i would have never turn down that much money.

Here is one the FBI agent couldn't believe, a PSA 10?
besides the fact that Munson never came on top of a 1979 cello the back seal
has clear sloppy signs of being resealed.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps569efe64.jpg


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps562a019e.jpg
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps472b364b.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps98a79285.jpg

After reading this whole thread, I feel the urge to take a second shower.

So lemme see if I have this straight: The fact that the fraud was poorly perpetrated means it wasn't a crime because the TPG should have caught it? Makes perfect sense to me. I'll remember to do a really poor job of it next time I knock over a 7/11.

I find it utterly and almost comically bizarre that rather than set up a website or mail-in guidebook in order to educate collectors about what to look for in manufacture patterns and pack sequencing, Jose would instead choose to create fake packs to slip by PSA in order to prove Steve Hart's inability to spot fakes, then allegedly sell them to unsuspecting customers for profit. ??? As if THAT will help the hobby and allow collectors to make educated decisions when buying these packs? ???? It simply does not compute. At least not to a sane person....

:confused:

It's an amazing hobby we have. :cool:

Did Jose admit or was it ever proven that he sold the fake packs? In one of his recent posts, he claims all of the fake packs he graded are still in his possession.

I also read the same thing, that Jose still has the fake ( fraudulent ) packs. Good for him if he still has the packs, it does not sit well with me that he has made someone, Steve Hart, out to apparently be bad at their job. That is PSA's decision to make, as Steve's employer. Steve may, in fact, be very good at his job. Jose, you have NOTHING to be proud of or to gloat over. The way this has been handled by you is very dirty in my opinion.

The truth of the matter is that anybody skilled enough, be it in packs or cards, can get alterations past even the best of authenticators, especially given that they aren't operating crime labs but making low-tech judgments for short money. If Steve Hart catches most bad packs, then that is probably the most one can realistically hope for.

Lou,
at some time last year Steve and i exchange several emails on the matter
and at the end i did offer to discuss it face to face so i could show him
his mistakes, but he elected not to and that was the last communication,
i have been a star pack dealer/collector since december 1969 which is
even before he was born,,,,,you would think i know what i'm talking about!

€hû¢k Wölƒƒ
 

I don't know what he has admitted or not admitted, but I did read this post from this thread. Judging from previous statements, and the fact that he was creating fake packs in the first place, I am not sure if I can trust either Jose's statements or his sanity at this point. I guess I can edit my post to say "allegedly" selling fake packs.

Interesting read.

Somewhere along the line it's alleged that the person grading the bogus packs was also selling packs that he himself graded. Is there hard proof of that?

Yeah, this thread will never win any awards for coherency, and the second quote to Matty could be interpreted a number of ways, but if Jose did cooperate with the FBI, as he claims in Post #161, there doesn't seems to be any findings of wrongdoing on his part, but only the FBI allegedly admitting that clearly bad packs were graded and there was no crime in that.

So I guess yet another question is did the FBI destroy the packs? Did Jose contact the FBI or someone else? I'm not sure how much the FBI wants people creating fake items to only say "I'm conducting my own investigation". I bet they hear that one alot.

All I know is I would never trust someone trying to create bogus items for any reasong. Why not just approach PSA if they see bad items and offer information to why they think it's fraudulent. That seems more an asset to this hobby than spending time creating fake items.

Jose is starting to sound more and more like Peter Nash...

I'm late to the dance, but if all Jose did was to pass some bad packs by PSA with the intent being to show that they didn't know what they were doing, and never sold any of these packs, he did nothing wrong. In fact, he pointed out a weakness in the hobby. Sounds like the TV station that passed the bad autographs past some of the autograph authenticators a few years ago to show that they were error prone (at best). When will people learn that if they can't authenticate what they buy themselves, they shouldn't buy?

For what it is worth...
 

....do not seek advice on a matter with significant legal implications on a public bulletin board. Get professional attorney client legal advice.

I have no idea what has happened to the fake packs.

I think one major detail that Jose took issue with is that there there was a long thread on the CU Board that exposed the problem in December 2010. The issue then was that a 1973 Topps Cello pack had a 1974 or 1975 Topps wrapper. See Post #42 on this thread.

In typical fashion when grading problems surface, CU/PSA deleted the thread but I was able to recover it with the Google Cache feature, but now I see those links don't work anymore. See Post #91 on this thread. I'm now curious to know exactly how those Google Cache links were deleted? Did PSA contact Google? I believe Jose's point of doing all of this was to see if they fixed the problem during that two year period and it appears they didn't.

I also just noticed in this thread that at least one bad graded pack was supposedly listed on Ebay two years later in December 2012 (a month before this thread started). But the auction listing did mention the pack was bad. See Post #49 on this thread. It doesn't say exactly who the seller is, but I'm guessing it was Jose.

As I've been saying for years, someone needs to grade the graders, otherwise how else will we know how competent they are?

I, too, am late to the dance and I feel the same way you do. Like Jose, I also question Steve's knowledge in this hobby. Don't get me wrong, I truly believe he is a man of great integrity, but integrity and knowledge are two different things.

About 4 years or so ago, I bought a 1975 Topps wax tray from Steve in one of his eBay auctions. I got it for $3XX (I can't remember the exact amount, but it was over $300). I thought I got a really good deal because at the time he was selling them for like $500 (maybe more) on his BBCE website. I was going to leave it sealed, but temptation got the better of me and after a few months I decided to open it. The cellophane around the tray looked good, but when I opened the packs they were clearly resealed. A bunch of EX commons with creases, corner wear and wax/gum stains in on cards that were in the middle of the pack (nowhere near the gum). I wondered at the time how the cellophane could be resealed. Now, I guess I know. That put a bad taste in my mouth about unopened product and I don't collect that garbage anymore.

If none of the bogus packs were sold and nobody was defrauded, then I applaud Jose for his efforts. Thank you, Jose.

Don,
i have a friend with much or the hole thread in a disk in pics
here you have a couple of very key pictures of the thread in which CU member maggyman uncovered the fact that the FAKE schmidt pack came from Steve Hart himself
he authenticated his own bogus pack had it graded by the Co. he works for and sold the fake pack himself and instead of coming clean and owning the mistake he tried
to covered up.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps468ccdee.png
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7c89c149.png
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psd972c585.png

I'm fairly certain members of the CU board have purchased plenty of bad packs from Pepis, and many surfaced on eBay. I could be wrong, but there are still several members who are bitter with what Pepis did to them.

Jason, your comment is dumb and ignorant! how can you be fairly certain of something that nobody has any prove! and that is because it didn't happen,
however almost every CU member that collects graded packs does have bogus packs that came from different sources i've seen a few 1978 cellos w/Bench
on top for example and Bench never came on the top section and that is something that can be verified easily and a few members already know know
i'm right but they are to afraid to bring it to light because they would have to admit they learned it from me or my post
thank you for bringing the cu members bushing up
i did see that cpamike said he called me out he is one of the most respected
people on that board but here is something you don't need to be fairly certain
you can be absolutely certain that the rack pack in the picture CPAMIKE sold
about 3 weeks ago to an innocent collector is BOGUS and he knows that
in fact 3 weeks earlier he sold another bogus rack although that one was
graded by GAI so he figure he could hide behind that. see jason the truth
is in net54 and the BS in CU.


http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psb2ef0b74.png

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps75aead38.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psb6c9a6c6.png

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psd9311c8e.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...psa4e89c95.png

To paraphrase Fitzgerald, buying sealed packs is a matter of infinite hope.

Ella collected sealed packs? :D:D:D

No, F. Scott did.:Dhttp://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Barney-Pelty-Vertical-PSA-4-F-Scott-Fitzgerald-Stamp-on-Reverse-/271202412133?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item3f24ec6665

You never addressed my concern (which is very telling to me). Have any of your bad packs entered the market?


According to several who have some of your jobs in their possession, the answer is yes.

You can keep circling the question, but most of us already know the answer.

Aloha Jose....Have any of your bad packs entered the market??

By the way I'm FBI...(From Big Island):D Dave.

Jose, you're going to have to prove that CPAMike knew those packs were bad before you go throwing out accusations like that. Not cool.

Jose has "surfaced" on the post war side.

Fake Packs
 

Hi,

I am new to this forum but not new to this issue at all. I was recently made aware of the allegations (very confusing) surrounding the dealer and have some insight to add. As I am (or was) an avid collector of unopened material with stars showing, I have dealt with Jose one time in the past. You can see my pack collection at http://thehistorykids.net/packs

Anyhow, a couple of things:
1.) The very same people the guy is throwing under the bus now vigorously defended him when I brought up suspicion about him in a different forum in 2011.
2.) He is presenting himself as some kind of crusader for the integrity of this sub-hobby. Kool-aid anyone?
3.) Below is what I brought up on the other forum and his response back in 2011.

Monday December 19, 2011 4:00 PM

Thanks everyone for welcoming into the forum. A couple of people have asked about my experiences with the ebay dealer E******, and although I have no intention of disparaging anyone or any dealer here on this forum, I will relay one experience I had with him which led me to leave him negative feedback on ebay:

A couple of years ago, he auctioned off a 1983 fleer rack pack that had Wade Boggs and Tony Gwynn showing on the front. I won the auction, paid him immediately and thought he would send the rack promptly. Two or so days later, he refunded my money and reported to ebay that the pack was damaged in handling. In thinking to myself how someone could have damaged a 1983 fleer pack when packaging it up, I came to the conclusion that he didn't want ME to buy it. This particular dealer subsequently banned me from all of his auctions. My guess is that he knew I could tell a fake pack from a real pack and he was hesitant in sending me the fake. I left him negative feedback. Confirming my suspicions, after the 90 day period where I could no longer submit any formal complaints, and at the time, when images would be deleted from ebay's database, the very same rack pack came up for auction from him again. So, it really wasn't damaged in "handling," he was hesitant to sell it to me. This combined with his seemingly endless supply of unbelievable unopened material including star racks and cellos from every year imaginable has led me to believe he sells inauthentic stuff.

This is only my opinion based on my limited experiences with him. I have never actually received unopened material from him. It is very likely he sells legitimate stuff as well, I guess. I will remove the line on my page that mentions him, as I never intended this topic to be brought up here.

Pepis e-mail to me:

Hello Greg,
when i went to get the pack out of the cabinet
in my office, it was gone! stolen! probably
by some youg kid friend of the family i think,
i hoping to get it back, but is taking me some time
to investigate, so, for now i have to give you
a refund on it, i have a very similar pack listed
right now (Gwynn/Sandberg graded 9.5 also)
item # 250172307764
if you by chance happen to like it, i would be
happy to exchange it, i apologize for the
inconvenience, although the loser here is me.
Jose

4.) The guy's (the pepis guy) response in the forum when I called him out

Unfortunately, this has been a feud that has gone on for four years. I have posted the original email below showing in detail how your recount of the story is incorrect. The pack was stolen by my sons friend. I am an honest, truthful man. I have a reputation on e-bay and well before the internet was invented of dealing honestly and being a straight shooter. I have been in the card business for over 40 years. You can ask any of my customers how much I am respected in the industry. I would appreciate if in the future you stick to the truth, so I don't have to present information to prove my credibility against your erroneous accusations. I am sorry that you have not gotten over a situation 4 years old, that was out of my control. Even though, as a man who respects customer service, I tried to make amends when the incident happened. You called me a liar then, which was incorrect, and now you post lies about me on a forum. That is not what a man does.

Hi,

I don't want to be a referee in this dispute, but please make your personal information public. Thanks.

Dan

He I did. Rules are rules. This one is even at the top of every page on the forum.

So can I sell my packs now? (LOL)

The only thing missing from this thread so far is him:

http://i1165.photobucket.com/albums/...ps49f475fc.jpg

Thanks Leon, keep up the outstanding work!

That has been addressed in post # 57 and again in post # 172 all it takes is for you to pay attention to what you read there is a lot of information in here on the matter, and a lot more is coming all intelligent people need to do is pay attention to what you read
and ignore the PSA groupies that are trying to disrupt things, i'm an intelligent well educated man, and will respond to educated
constructive questions only, confrontational and apparently ignorant people that can seem to understand what they read and only
find false valor behind a key board will be ignore.
as for you DavidG1966 or MrSnuffleupagus at the CU you Know you have many bad packs and despite what you preach
you know you are going to sell them to innocent people instead of claiming the PSA guarantee.

Jose
 

Jose - If?

When someone keeps telling me how honest they are I reach in my pocket to make sure my wallet is still there.

Your puny, futile, misspelled, and unmanly response does not hide what you really are. Key words from above "..that graded". So the ones that didn't grade , you sold.:mad: Thanks for your honesty and admission of guilt. I will now exit this thread.

I don't understand how Jose thinks he is a hero in this....

Rick,,,i'm not here to tell anybody anything about my honesty, i'm here to tell that every counterfeiter of star packs on ebay is getting away
with it because the psa authenticator doesn't have the knowledge to identify those fake packs even know the signs are very clear of being fakes or altered packs, they are getting authenticated and over half of the star packs in the population report are fake and i can prove it given
the chance to do so, all you need to know is the manufacture pattern, is actually pretty simple and it should be common knowledge, i showed the FBI and they got it.

While this makes great reality TV-like entertainment, I have to say what the heck does 1977 Topps cello packs and 1983 Fleer have to do with Pre-War? Pre-Desert Storm? This is exactly why I collect the old stuff - too many weird-o's mess with the shiny stuff.

If there is such an easy solution to figuring out what is a fake "star pack" or what ever the you call these things, why not post the key on the post-war side and go away or start talking about 1933 Goudey unopened packs.

I don't think we can infer from Jose's statement that he still has all the bad packs he graded that he sold other bad packs that didn't grade. That's like interpreting the statement, I have never sold a trimmed card, to be an admission that I sold bleached cards, it's not logical. At least give him the opportunity to answer the question.

Just curious how a "well educated" man can have so many misspellings, and grammatical flubs? Reading Jose's posts gives me a headache.

In my experience, when a person purports to be "well educated" on the internet, they are just the opposite.

I'm not quite sure you can infer anything from his posts frankly.

Here are the posts that you are referencing: (corrected the spelling mistakes)

How about the packs you never had graded?

or

How about the packs that you were "indirectly" involved with? (whatever that means)

Agreed Jeff, this is one of the few reasons why I said what I said.

Incoherence combined with the oblivion to a normal ethical understanding --- atll the while seemingly trying to implore people to see that you are some sort of perspicacious hero in all of this is ridiculous.

An intellectually inferior version of Frank Abagnale Jr. for the hobby...

I've thought the same thing.

Also, which packs were "grated":rolleyes:

This is not my thread, i do understand and think it probably should be in
the post war side, but Leon has kept it here which may be a good thing
this thread is getting a lot of attention on Google and Yahoo and i think
that's a good thing

It was decided, when this thread first went up, to allow it to stay here because of it's importance. In that respect nothing has changed.

Jose, you never sold me a fake pack?

No i didn't Nathan, but more fake packs got by Steve recently, and since you
are a Cincnnatii red fun be careful there is a few Johnny Bench 78 & 79 cellos in PSA holders floating arround and Bench never came in the top section in
those years, and yes i can be easily proven! in fact a few of the CU members already did the research with the info i provided and know the truth but they don't have the guts
to admitted meanwhile honest collectors like the one in the picture keep getting screwed.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...ps38562f23.png

isn't the big question here... Have you ever RELEASED (sold/gave away/traded) ANY fake packs into the hobby?

I do agree with Jose on one point ---- SO many people have figured out how to reseal cello and rack packs that it is more like that can simply manufacture them the same way topps did. It's not worth collecting them really. Good counterfeiters can make their work completely undetectable and no one, including PSA has any clue if they are real or not. There are even sellers that are coming up with their own custom-made rack pack wrappers (see the guy who is making rack packs to "hold" 1979-80 OPC Hockey Cards on ebay). He is not trying to sell them as authentic, but he has made them himself with header cards, plastic wrap or shrink warp so that someone without knowledge would think they are 100% real.

Not trying to stir the pot but was more or less looking for others thoughts on this issue:

http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=890762