Sloate Quote
 

Having my morning cup of joe, reading about the find in the LA Times; and what Barry thinks.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-...0,221825.story

I said a lot more than that....I think I was quoted a bit out of context.:(

I just received a call from the executor of the estate, Karl. He wants me to express gratitude to some of our board members for all of their help in this discovery. We only had a short (5-10 minute) call as he was taking a call from Canadian Press. :). Unfortunately he himself will not be able to attend the National and the auction but he did say that 20+ members of the family will be there. As late breaking news there will be one of the speakers at the Net54baseball Dinner speaking about the find. One thing Karl noted, which is truly newsworthy, is that through this whole monumental find, and windfall of monies to be had, there hasn't been even 1 family argument about it. That really says something about this fine family.

I bet they never could have imagined how a small box sitting in their attic would so drastically change their lives. Not only is it a huge financial windfall, but they are getting their 15 minutes of fame, and then some.

Black Swamp find now with video! Regrettably the Barry Sloate interview didn't make the final cut. Would you have purchased that house for one million dollars a few months back???

http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2012...ollection.html

Lovely Day...

cool video...doesn't look like it could have happened to a nicer guy...and his family!!!!!!

I'd like to see the box they were in? And the doll house for that matter!

Very cool to see the dilapidated house these were stored in, easily could have been ruined by water/fire....this story keeps getting more amazing.

Dman. All i found in my attic was a stash of porn.

I'm watching ABC News at 4:00 in NY and there was just a promo for the collection, so they are about to do a story shortly. My guess is all the hour news programs will have something about it today.

A couple of videos I was asked to share:

http://news.yahoo.com/video/us-15749...-29943252.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...ound-in-attic/

Barry S
 

I think you may have retired after all, ole buddy.
I just read the piece in the LA paper and it identifies you as retired! :)
congrats on the interview.
amazing,amazing find.
all the best,
barry

Well the guy asked me if I was still running auctions and I said, No, I'm retired...did I know that that was what he was going to pick up on?

Heritage Auctions plans to sell most of the Ohio cards over the next two of three years through auctions and private sales so that it doesn't flood the market. In all, they could bring $2 million or $3 million, Ivy said."

Not flood the market???? Thats like 1-2 hounus Wagner a month for the next 3 years. Seems like thats flooding it.

Best part of the story. Congratulations to them.

There are differences in your comparison that are so wide you could drive a truck through them. The Cracker Jack issue is significantly more popular an issue then this one, to the point it's not even comparable. Even if the demand was the same, talking about pre-war cards, a population of 8 is also very different than a population of 25. Other than the supply being significantly higher and the demand being significantly lower, your analogy is spot on.

There is no denying that up until now the Cracker Jacks have been infinitely more popular than the E98s. While I don't believe the popularity of the E98s will equal or surpass the Cracker Jacks at any point in time, I certainly think this find and all the publicity that comes with it will make the E98s much more popular than they ever were before. In addition, I believe a premium will be paid for all cards denoted as part of the "Black Swamp Find".

While I agree this whole thing will heighten awareness of a once pretty obscure set...which may enhance it's collectibility...I'm not so sure the moniker will increase values as there are more slabs with it...then without?!

I don't know. Many collectors I know will pay a bit more for something with impeccable provenance. We know no card doctors have gotten their mitts on these cards which is more than can be said for a lot of the tiny bordered but highly graded vintage cards we see.

I talked to some folks at Heritage today. The one thing that really surprised me was the comment that all of the excitement around the "Black Swamp Find" has perked the interest from collectors in the coin and stamp markets.

In my opinion, if this Find can draw other collectors into our hobby (and beyond just the E98s), then this would be a huge positive for card values.

Thanks for the sentiment, John, although this find makes the E98 set from my find quite pedestrian.

They are incredible cards and it sounds like it couldn't have happened to a nicer family. I hope they do exceedingly well in the auction!

Scott M. Is pure class. Happy to see you around Scott
JimB

I was in Defiance, OH just this past weekend - my wife and I visited friends there on the way home from the SABR National Convention in Minneapolis. We had lunch with a woman we knew, and her husband who we met for the first time. When he heard about my interest in baseball, he said "you'll probably be interested in this story, then," and told me about the "Black Swamp" find. (but he didn't call it that - he called it the "Kissner's cards").

The story he told me (and he has known the family for years) has a bit of a twist to it, a bit different than what has been reported and discussed. He said the two sisters who lived in the house were real collectors/"pack rats", and that they collected anything and everything. Evidently the house was packed to the rafters, with everything imaginable. So, then he starts telling me about the TOBACCO baseball cards that were found - and that "most of them had never been opened." So I filled him in about the 1910-era cigarette cards, but warned him that if the cigarette packs hadn't been opened, they may well contain cards with birds or flags, not always baseball cards. Then he said " they weren't in packages of cigarettes, they were in packages of CHEWING TOBACCO!" (Evidently, a few packages were opened to see what was inside). When I expressed an interest in trying to see the cards, I was told that the family had "gotten in touch with some people in Texas who said the cards were authentic, and they're going to auction them off." So, that was my introduction to the "Black Swamp Find" - then all the publicity the past few days.

But, the family that found the cards had no idea what they were - all the press and hype has been about the E98 (candy) cards, but evidently the people involved mentioned cards from chewing tobacco packages (how stained would those be after 100 years?). So, perhaps some TOBACCO cards will also surface from this find!

My wife's grandfather owned a jewelry store on Clinton Street (the main street in town) in Defiance in the 1920s-60s, about two blocks from the restaurant that Karl Kissner owns. Kissner's is a beautiful place - a huge old wooden bar, pressed tin ceiling, etc. Looks pretty much unchanged from the 1910 era. Based on where Carl Hench (the fellow who saved the cards in 1910) lived and worked, I feel pretty certain that my wife's grandfather probably knew him. I wish they would have traded and collected together!

Interesting story, but sorry, no tobacco cards. These cards were ment to be handed out with candy. The best we can figure, Carl Hench, a german immigrant who spoke only broken English, received the cards as promotional items, and instead of handing them out, put them in a box in the attic instead. They were in a stack of boxes which contained his children's school papers. (The (one) aunt wasn't the only one who didn't throw things out.) Also in the attic was his brother's steamer trunk from his trip to America, old gas lamp fixtures (after the house was converted to electricity) and the grandma's clothes, still folded up in a dresser.
Jean Hench didn't like to throw anything out, but the house wasn't "full to the rafters" either. Many of the items in the house were of historical value to the family - Carl Hench's 1909 wedding shoes, newspaper clippings (from the flood of 1913, the start and end of WWII and the VietNam war), old toys and games, lots and lots of pictures - things from their lives through the years. Sorry, I don't have the box, but I do have the doll house. If you tell me how to upload a picture, I will gladly do so.
I have been following your chatter since day 1. As Karl said, we have learned much and enjoyed your input. Thank you!

+1

Great seeing you pop up Scott give me a call sometime love to catch up. I hope you're doing well...I stand behind my words you're still the king of E98 Scott long live the Gang Green Set. :)

Cheers,

John

P.S. Nothing pedestrian about these beauties! :)

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn...ed/us36353.jpg

momof6,

It is good to hear more about this find. When Tom Hufford was telling his story, I thought for a moment there was going to be some heartbreaking news to many people on this board.

I was reading his story and he was talking about unopened tobacco products. I thought he was going to say that there were some unopened Piedmont or Sweet Caporal cardboard tobacco packs found and that either 1) because no one searching through the house smoked or 2) because no one wanted to try 100 year-old cigarettes, the packs were thrown away.

Then, after the E98's were found, did the people searching the house realize that they might have thrown away some valuable tobacco cards and went to look for them but they were already in the landfill.

David

what's up with the green beaters?

Welcome to the forum! What is your role in the story?

Hi There Momof6,
As I told Karl yesterday I will help ya'll any way I can. If you want to post some pictures or scans on this board just send them to me and I will do it for you. You can send them to leonl@flash.net. Thanks for coming on the board and sharing more info. Karl has my number too, if you ever need to chat about something on the phone. best regards

Thanks Jim and John for the kind words.

I'm still around and doing well although I haven't been too active in the hobby or on keeping up with the board the past couple of years.

Thankfully, I was alerted to this thread by a fellow collector and also by hearing about the find in the news.

I'm kind of disappointed that my old friend Pete C. did not reach out to me and let me know that he had the privilege of handling these cards since he was also the one to help me get the E98 set from my find graded back when I "came out of the woodwork" in 2005.

The cards from this find are definitely stunning and I can't wait to see how they do in the upcoming auctions as they are sold.

I have some of these cards...
 

Hey All,

So I have the "Hans" Wagner card in orange and the Johnny Evers card in green from the E98 set.... We found them when clearing out my great-grandfather's attic in 1990. I've never really know what they were worth. They are not in mint condition, but there is very little discoloration on the white border and they still have crisp corners. Do you think they'll be worth much after this influx of cards from the Black Swamp Find...?

Thanks!

Do you have pictures or scans of the cards? That would really help in giving you an accurate valuation. As you probably have figured by now, condition is of the utmost importance.

It's pouring E98's!!!! I wish it would pour e94's...purple ones would be nice!!!!

E98, the new 1988 Donruss!

Yes they will definitely still have good value but it is sort of hard to say where all of this is going to put the other cards already in the hobby. No doubt that red ones already in the hobby will take bit of a hit, with so many high grades ones being found. It's hard to fathom they wouldn't come down some. Other colors, it's just too hard to say right now. Would love to see scans of them too.

I posted this days ago and it got moved to watercooler talk???

I'll see if I can get some scans up in the next few days... they've been packed away for a while so I've gotta dig em out :)

I would be interested to know what percentage of the collection Heritage plans to sell privately. If nearly all are sold privately, and only a small group reaches auction, then prices might actually remain pretty strong. The fewer sold publicly, the greater the demand for the remaining ones.

I think for those collectors who want to make a serious investment in these, it's probably pretty tough to figure out what they're worth. I guess it's going to take some time for the market on these to stabilize, and I would expect some volatility early on.

e98 buyers
 

it is my opinion that the high end ones will fly away fast....there are so many collectors with deep pockets, maybe some more active than others, but they will want to add these gems to their already staggering portfolios....and to have at least one for bragging rights...this is only common sense....Barry, are you adding any to your fabulous collection? They are beautiful, I hope I will be able to see some up close in Baltimore...Barry, speaking of BALTIMORE, any chance I can talk you into coming down to the national? I'll buy your badge...it would be great to see you....Bruce Perry

Hi Bruce- thanks for the invite, and it would be great to see you after so long. But I won't be in Baltimore. That Saturday is my 60th birthday so I will be with Judy for a little celebration. And my collection is gone....sold it quite a while ago. But I sure do like those E98's- they are tempting. Have fun at the National.

well Barry, HAPPY 60TH to be! (soon) I will toast you at dinner on Aug 4....I crossed the 60 plateau last April, and am feeling good! Please say hello to Judy for me....Bruce

You know I sort of remember that you were a few months my senior...:)

I will tell Judy and please likewise send my good wishes to Pat. Hope she is doing well.

Black Swamp Find?
 

Wow, amazing find! congrats to the family that did not just trash them

Jimmy

Alas, my "role" in this story is only that of an in-law. I did have the opportunity to spend a couple of days helping sort through the house, (what fun that was. Lots of lost "treasures"!) but due to work, I was out of the picture long before the cards were found. Most of the details I know I have learned through watching Karl being interviewed by various networks. I have been doing a lot of research on the E98, for my own information (I'm a geek like that) but truthfully, I have avoided learning all the "inside information" so I didn't have to worry about keeping it all secret!
It has been very difficult for me to see all the various stories floating around and not saying "Hey, silly! That's not right!!" Just today, a local NC Fox station had the aunt finding the cards and having to share them with her dozen nieces and nephews. How does a story get so wrong????
It has been requested that I hold off on posting any doll house pictures for right now. As soon as I am given the ok, I will gladly post.

Until then, happy bidding. I truely hope all of you that want to purchase a card have the opportunity to do so, at some point. Thanks for the welcome!

One more vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBZuGDQ6qk0

This is the greatest treasure trove ever uncovered in the history of the hobby. I was a loyal collector who spent ALL of my allowance money on early-mid 90's cards. Rather than getting a "real job" I would flip my doubles on eBay and various message boards, since eBay was pretty new then. Before I knew it, the modern day card market crashed. I was so frustrated that I sold off my entire collection in bulk and never looked back until now. Once in a while I will bust a Wal-Mart box of something like Allen & Ginter just to get that fix that I so desperately miss. But let's face it, the only way to sustain true value in the hobby nowadays is to purchase very high end "boxes" that contain 1-3 packs with a guaranteed rookie cut, auto, or something of that nature. No one wants to spend $300-$500 for a few cards that could either skyrocket or fizzle out. It's just not appealing to the collector nor your wallet. Which is why I had given up the hobby for over 10 years, until recently. Because of the Black Swamp Find that I read in my local paper (I live in NE Ohio) I found this message board. For a week now, I have done nothing but look at everyone's collection and thoughts on Pre-War cards, which I know nothing about yet highly appreciate. My wife thinks I am nuts! Haha. But, much to my surprise, there is in fact a market for those who truly love the hobby...I've just been looking into all the wrong places until now. I could never imagine the feeling of a Black Swamp like find, but it's more exciting to me that pulling a juiced up A-Rod swatch card from a high-end pack. Because of this find, I found you guys and because of you guys, I may join the hobby again. I love collecting cardboard, but when I tossed all my eggs into the 90's basket and ended up holding a goose egg that everyone else had, I hesitated to ever do it again. Thanks for opening up my eyes :)

So who's asking you to hold off on the doll house pictures?

I have an idea but want to be sure. And I'm sure it's all about the money.

That is a rude question and snide insinuation. I wouldn't answer if I were that person. Why do you want to be sure? What concern is it of yours? They said they were asked not to post them. Not a big deal. I appreciate them coming on the board in the first place.

Someone close to the find appears on the board and you want to know about the dollhouse????

I have better questions:

1) Do you know if the cards were bundled by player?

2) Were there more then 22 of any color for any individual player, or were most found right at the number 22?

-Matt

I second Leon. What we have to take from this story is the fact that the family has had absolutely no financially arguments what-so-ever. That is the most impressive fact about the find considering how many individuals are involved. In this day and age, a lucky company lottery pool results in lawyering up eventually. Who knows the reason why the dollhouse pictures are not public, but respect the decision and don't always assume it's for the money. If you made the find, would you want every Tom, Dick and Harry questioning you about every little detail and requesting pictures of all the involved contents? I think not.

I appreciate this person coming to the forum as well and was in no way saying anything negative about the family who found them or the poster.

I can only guess the dollhouse and any other information that the average baseball card collector would like to see or hear has been prohibited by a lawyers document somewhere in order for someone handling the find to make a few more bucks.

That doesn't make any sense. I doubt there is money from the story or the details. The money is in the cards and Heritage will be selling them on behalf of the family. It might be that the family only wants certain people putting information out so they don't accidentally contradict each other AND they can keep track of all of the information. I can imagine with 20 different people owning them, different info could be put out and it could get twisted. With the above board nature and transparency shown so far I can't imagine there is anything going on behind the scenes. For those attending the Net54baseball Dinner at the National I think you will find some more info out. As already stated one of the speakers will be speaking about the find.

Great post and welcome back !!! :D

This board is a lot of fun, best place on the internet IMO. Great to see more interest in pre-war cards coming about because of this awesome find !!

Sincerely, Clayton

Thanks for the warm welcome Clayton! I wish I would have found these boards years ago, as part of the fun about collecting is networking , sharing and learning with others. I've already spent hours surfing the different topics on Net54 and I am amazed with the dedication and passion that some of you have. That's exactly what the hobby lacks IMO. I am very much looking forward to getting back in the game, perusing a different genre of cards than I once did and of course spending even more time on here!

Jon thanks for the link!

Did you read the '' comment'' on that film clip ?
 

The comment ruined my day but I'll get over it.

Sure did, I couldn't believe it either.

Hey...

Here are some photos of my cards... what ya'll think?

Michael

Honus looks very nice... but then again it's so common!!!:)

It's the now "rare" orange version! :)

Thanks for the video post! Seems like the media has been pretty straight forward about the find and has not twisted it like most news stories. I hope I didn't just jinx it :)

I would have to say that the closest thing I've had to a "Black Swamp Like Find" was about 15 years ago when I was helping a buddy of mine re-shingle his roof. I pulled off one of the shingles and found a handful of T206's. At first my heart stopped, as I knew they were tobacco cards due to the famous Wager everyone in the hobby has seen. Some of the cards were too damaged to even tell the players names and could barley see the photos. I don't recall the exact cards we unearthed from his roof, but at the time they were only going on eBay for less than $100 and in much better condition. My buddy collected at the time, so I just let him have them. He did provide lunch and beer for the roofing job, so no complaints. Only if one of the cards were a a big name, for a minute...I had that glimmer of hope and possibility which caused my spine to tingle. We never figured out why the cards were there under a roof shingle, but that's what makes finds like this great...their totally unexpected and can happen anywhere at anytime :)

Rarest of all...

http://redblackred.com/freedumb/trout-e98.png

very nice wagner...if the white lines on his legs are not creases or wrinkles it looks like an easy 4.

Nice one Joel....yesterday I started a Mike Trout thread in the watercooler section.

joel and bosoxfan
 

LOL!!!

All i find is bats in my belfry:D

HAHA! Great parody card, Joel, and nice reference to Spinal Tap. ;)

And nice real cards, Michael. As stated, the Wagner could go up to PSA 5 if crease/wrinkle-free. The Evers is real nice, too, although the upper crease could put it into a PSA 2 holder if graded. The nice thing is neither of your cards are red back, so this find shouldn't affect their value too much.

Not my work guys. I thought I'd share it though. It was made by a very good custom cut auto maker on another forum.

Matt Lauer - Today Show Interview
 

While the whales fight it out over the PSA 9s, I think the prices will stay steady for the low and midgrade E98s. I do think the orange and blues will probably increase in value, but across the board I don't see the mt E98s driving the lesser condition E98s down because there will always be a strong demand for them in eye appeal condition.

As someone mentioned above, thank God these were E98s and not E94s, I have too much invested in that master set :D

I asked the board this simple question one year ago today. Soon it was on every news outlet. A member of the family joined the board, and began to communicate with me via PM about the family's experience. The cards were on prominent display at the National, and Peter Calderon from Heritage told the behind-the-scenes story at the Net54 dinner. I doubt there will ever be another find of this caliber in our lifetime.

I hope you are wrong! :)

That's only part of the story.

An entire pristine E98 set was discovered. I think there was a PSA 9 Cobb in that set if I'm not mistaken.

This find has set the bar high, unreasonably high for those trying to build a high quality set. There were/are three cards from this find for sale on eBay. Two PSA 8s and a PSA 9(O/C).

I've got one :)
 

I picked up this one up of the Black Swamp find! Very nice hate the way PSA put it in the holder though.

This is the card collector's dream. Great thread, thanks to the family members who joined in, and to Leon for hosting us all!

WOW!

Two questions for the board.

1. At some point in time, will all the finds be found? Will there ever be a time when every pre-war card is accounted for?

2. Will this spark interest (and an increase in value) in the other E-card series?

Nice!!! I had my eye on that one also but decided to leave it. Dropped a load on one of my non-baseball collecting interests instead. I think there are two remaining on eBay from the BSF.

So I guess you have me to thank. :D

I see your flipping it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSA-9-MINT-O...item3f265c1041

I'd buy it if I hadn't already bought that C55 Vezina from last week.

Yeah I keep debating on selling it or keeping it. My problem is I always find "another" card I want too so my wife makes me sell some so I can get more. Oh the pains of marriage. lol. It is a beauty of a card though. And thank you for letting me get it :)

Good luck on the sale of the Dahlen. It is truly a beautiful card. I've noticed, though, that there have been several Black Swamp cards on ebay, month after month, which have never sold. I think some of the luster has gone off the Find and it has become incredibly hard to flip these cards, given the amounts sunk in them....

no, they will never all be found, because they are still pulling superman comics #1 from in between the walls, and isn't that the way a ty cobb tin was found too?

It's one of those things that if it sells great and if it doesn't sell great. Like I mentioned in a previous post my wife thinks I have to many "toys" or cards in my case and makes me sell a few when I buy some. My problem is I love buying the cards. lol.

Future finds analyzed
 

Is a find a find before its found?
I think not, the logic's sound.
In the past, finds were found.
No one knows what's underground.

Future finds are speculation
If unfound, more consternation
If uncovered, jubilation
Risk, reward or humiliation

A searcher's quest may stay behind
without a clue of any kind.
You'll never know, not in your mind,
'cause it must be found to be a find.